The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[notlamprey]

I'm glad people are offering ideas, but I can't really support any solution on DE's part that doesn't give players the option to have Carrier's original vacuum range somehow.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, Azrael said:

 

I'm just gonna guess that you're here to flamewar. I don't wanna flamewar, so leave me out of this from now on. Have fun.

by all means go ahead and bounce out. i've no issues with you leaving for me pointing out that your statements counter one another.

[VocalMagic]

Just now, notlamprey said:

I'm glad people are offering ideas, but I can't really support any solution on DE's part that doesn't give players the option to have Carrier's original vacuum range somehow.

Thus the first, and reccommended, solution.

[GrimAtrament]

if your stopping to walk and pick up loot..... then all i can say is 

 

i can pick up items mid bullet jump, normal jump sprint ect iv never needed vaccum and never will nor have i ever need to stop and walk to pick up loot

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by hazerddex

[letir]

Just now, ObviousLee said:

sit n spit game play? oh you mean like every cheesed xp farm that they've removed/changed?

Synoid simulor, although a problem, is not part of this thread, nor is it genuinely relevant in that we're discussing carrier changes and sentinel buffs. I know it's breaking hearts to have to play the game in such a fashion that puts you at risk of failure(gee, horrid game design i suppose) in order to get rewarded for constant murder, but hey what do i know? i'm not trying to force anything at all, i'm pointing out flaws in the majority of the counter arguments and people simply put, do not like it. unfortunately, thats just the way life works. you may enjoy driving at over two hundred miles per hour, but the speed limit says no.

Changed?

Like when they kneejerked on Viver, make a huge backslash or something, and then reverting their S#&$ty changes? Yeah right like that - people don't like DE's method of "changing things", so they kindly told about this in forums.

 

But then come white knight, and this feedback suddenly a crime. Because we, thick-skulled lazy plebs, know nothing about game design and should just leave decision to "professionals".

[Spot.]

Another solution could be to have the items be instantly picked up when they enter the radius of vacuum, rather then them needing to be being dragged to you first.

[NinthAria]

Getting harpooned out of the air by a scorpion destroys the flow of the game. Having to spend an extra second or two, tops, to pick stuff up is an inconvenience that barely warrants mention.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

 

18 feet is a fine distance. and with 202 million affinity and 99% use on carrier, if I can be fine with it, so can anyone else.

This smells for me little bit selfish. U absolutly forgot how usefull Vacuum was when u was a newbie. I still try to find reason why the most usefull ability for newbies was nerfed.

[JohnMorte]

1. The range nerf hurts hard. If you claim you "don't notice it" then you either never used carrier or played so little of it that it just wasn't part of your playstyle (that's ok! but you'd be in the minority considering carrier was used by 89% of all warframe players)
2. Much of the feedback considering the vacuum nerf appears to have gone ignored completely by the balance team. I'm consistently seeing superior ideas than the current implementation recommended in many of these nerf threads.
3. The statistic of 89% of players using carrier pre-nerf appears to have gone largely unnoticed by a very vocal minority, and some of that minority appears to be spouting little better than "get gud" nonsense which helps and solves nothing.
4. Vacuum was fine for years, and nobody really had an issue with vacuum itself. It was the fact that other sentinels couldn't use it. Vacuum was used for years, and then Carrier Prime was released. If vacuum was going to be touched up in the past to be adjusted, then that was the time. After that, it becomes a major quality of life downgrade which many players are 100% justified in being upset about when it gets effectively dumpstered.
5. Relevant Tangent: I don't like missing things. So since Vacuum is going to get nerfed overall, I'd like the chance to at least run over and pick up everything. Mods like Thief's wit are busted when it comes to height, and while it does show things that are on the same horizontal plane as you at the correct distance, the vertical distance doesn't work. Jump in the air like 10 meters and Mods like Thief's wit and Enemy Sense no longer function as they should. Fix these and I can work around the vacuum nerf (at least until I get sick of dealing with it).
6. More than anything, this mod hurts newer players much harder than vets. New players need all the resources they can scrounge up, and they don't have the omega roomclear weapons that us vets do. It becomes harder for them to collect stuff with the old vacuum radius not available to them.
7. http://i.imgur.com/OI9NR8Q.png The item (shown as a pentagon) is 6 meters away from the warframe's (portrayed as a rectangle) feet. The actual effective range of carrier is cut down quite a bit to somewhere around 4.5 meters. Pre-nerf this wasn't really a concern since the sphere was large enough to actually get everything in the room. The sentinel does not form a cylinder around the warframe, it forms a sphere around the sentinel itself.
8. The nerf wasn't even necessary. All sentinels (and perhaps companions to even the playing field) could be given vacuum of 12 meters and the sentinels could be fixed to not be still terrible. As it sits, most of the sentinels are still pretty bad.

This is all I can think of right now. I'll probably update if I can rattle my brain for any more issues I have.

[Xekrin]

4 minutes ago, Nolc said:

Let's force them to stop being space ninjas and instead force them to walk slowly on the ground to pick up loot and ammunition!"

Oh please, that is just blatantly false and ludicrous.  I just ran the sortie survival twice for affinity purposes.  Not once did I have to walk slowly anywhere to get loot.  

I must admit though it was pretty amusing in the video that he jumped over the mod, but a very easy back flip in freaking mid-air would have landed him right on the mod.  Follow that with a bullet jump and I'd be off just as quickly as before.  I've had to back track on numerous occasions with the old carrier.  

People just amuse themselves with blowing things quite out of proportion for emphasis rather than having an intelligent discussion about things.

[Ogarra_Remaellus]

5 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

if your stopping to walk and pick up loot..... then all i can say is 

 

i can pick up items mid bullet jump, normal jump sprint ect iv never needed vaccum and never will nor have i ever need to stop and walk to pick up loot

 

This person gets it.

[(PSN)haffmo]

Nerfs are frequent. Twin grakatta silent nerf. All the frame reworks. Rhino skin. Even syndicate weapons. Vacuum isnt the first.

[Nolc]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

Oh please, that is just blatantly false and ludicrous.

 

It's 100% accurate. Before this nerf I would look at the minimap, see where the little white boxes are and just run there, collecting everything in my path. Now, I have to actually scan the ground and search for S#&$. It's a bother that does NOT make the game better. it makes the game slower and more tedious. I've tried it out in a few missions now and it's annoying as hell.

[notlamprey]

Totally agree. I managed to actually hit my reputation limit for the day, so I can only upvote in spirit.

[ObviousLee]

7 minutes ago, letir said:

Changed?

Like when they kneejerked on Viver, make a huge backslash or something, and then reverting their S#&$ty changes? Yeah right like that - people don't like DE's method of "changing things", so they kindly told about this in forums.

 

But then come white knight, and this feedback suddenly a crime. Because we, thick-skulled lazy plebs, know nothing about game design and should just leave decision to "professionals".

ahem: xini was a problem. viver, was a problem. draco, was a problem.

why were they problems? they circumvented the intended method for obtaining mastery rank, allowing for rapid mastery rank gain which led to eventual burnout and a lack of player retention, as well as elitist attitudes towards players not utilizing meta builds.

so, they fixed it. yet another example of people crying up a storm due to easy mode being removed. people didn't like the fact that mastery ranks were no longer easily gained with absolutely minimum effort, which again, is crying at a fix to a broken system that did not work in DE's financial, or game balance favor.

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

This smells for me little bit selfish. U absolutly forgot how usefull Vacuum was when u was a newbie. I still try to find reason why the most usefull ability for newbies was nerfed.

When i was a newbie, carrier didn't exist. When i was a newbie, we hunted resources manually, had to pay for revives, knelt in space, had barely a handful of tilesets, and frost prime was a new thing. might wanna know what you're talking about before you make statements like that.

Edited October 6, 2016 by ObviousLee

[Xekrin]

3 minutes ago, Nolc said:

It's 100% accurate.

For you, yes.  For me, no.  I'm playing exactly how I was before with very little difference other than getting 5 meters closer to loot.  I can still use the mini map to see loot and pick it up as I go.  There is little need to scan the ground and search.  If you are doing that, well that's just how you play, I can't comment on your choice of playstyle.

Besides, everyone should be fraking used to annoying backtracking for loot because we literally HAVE to do that in every fissure mission for reactants.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Xekrin

[notlamprey]

Just now, Nolc said:

It's 100% accurate. Before this nerf I would look at the minimap, see where the little white boxes are and just run there, collecting everything in my path. Now, I have to actually scan the ground and search for S#&$. It's a bother that does NOT make the game better. it makes the game slower and more tedious. I've tried it out in a few missions now and it's annoying as hell.

I was frustrated enough after one mission that I'd rather just put the game down and wait until the dust settles before playing again.

It's such a radical hit to my fun levels, being constantly forced to run so much closer to all the loot than was previously necessary. I can afford to call it 'fun,' because I'm not exactly in a position where I absolutely need to pick up every piece of stuff.

New players aren't so fortunate.

[Bronjun]

As long as I don't have to stand directly on top of the item, I am okay with this change/nerf. Just do some maneuver to gather pickups, use Animal Instinct if you don't want to miss any. 

[GrimAtrament]

4 minutes ago, Nolc said:

It's 100% accurate. Before this nerf I would look at the minimap, see where the little white boxes are and just run there, collecting everything in my path. Now, I have to actually scan the ground and search for S#&$. It's a bother that does NOT make the game better. it makes the game slower and more tedious. I've tried it out in a few missions now and it's annoying as hell.

  100% false

iv never need to walk to pick up loot you are ether lying or need to 

 

pick one

 

the only thing de did wrong with vacuum  was introducing it into the game in the first place if it did not exist none of you would acauly care

there are so meany much bigger issues to deal with right now you actually needing to move to pick stuff up is not one of them,. you should be moving around more you get shot less if you are.

like archwing and how bad the new controls are.

or idk the holes in the map that warframes can fall through!!

Edited October 6, 2016 by hazerddex

[VocalMagic]

6 minutes ago, Spot. said:

Another solution could be to have the items be instantly picked up when they enter the radius of vacuum, rather then them needing to be being dragged to you first.

That solution would solve nothing, as instant pickup does not stop momentum of bullet jumping or rolling.
Slowly walking would see no difference, as they can see loot being picked up.
Aim-walking while fighting now suffers, because there is no feedback informing the player that they picked up that thing they wanted to.

[(PSN)haffmo]

PC is testing ground. They might rework it.

[Sloan441]

Don't agree.

I played all of tonight with the new vacuum. I like the new Carrier ability a LOT. Otherwise, it didn't really change the way I played. The reduced range is noticeable, so I do have to move closer to loot that looks interesting, but that's just pathing. It didn't really change how I approached fights or cleanup and I didn't notice any lack of either ammo or energy.

I think the range is a touch short, but really it caused less disruption than I thought it would. I think 8m would be a good range for it, but I didn't have any significant problems with gameplay.

[Ozamchist]

Just now, NinthAria said:

Getting harpooned out of the air by a scorpion destroys the flow of the game. Having to spend an extra second or two, tops, to pick stuff up is an inconvenience that barely warrants mention.

I still to this day have not been harpooned out of the air by scorpions or ancients. I have how ever been on the receiving of of multiple arson eximus units during a sortie (with arctic back up dancers). I have also wadded through a sea of pre-nerf bursas while killing raptor only armed with a sheev (bless their robotic hate filled souls I liked their pre-nerf state I'm pretty alone in this sentiment, I mean the bursas, I do adore the updated raptors) particularly the denial bursa's flash bangs that started to make my eyes water. But your point very much stands.

This is literally at worst a mild, niche inconvenience.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

if its effectively negating the use of every other sentinel in the game by a massive majority, then yes, it's in need of a balance adjustment, which is exactly what happened. nobody used anything other than carrier, and "let me die so i can get my carrier back" is and has been one of the most commonly said things in games for quite some time. I'm no exception to this, as one only needs look at my profile to see the obscene amounts of use i have with it. a 6 meter range is absolutely fine, as now players cannot stand in one spot aimlessly and accrue mountains of resources, thus easymode. Now, we gotta work for it, which is absolutely fine by me.

but with a big &#! excavation map, and plenty of running back n forth, its tedium, n as u said, carriers usage vs other sentinels needed to be balanced. That was accomplished by vacuum being made universal and giving carrier the new precept. The range Nerf on vacuum only needlessly angered 89% of players by making something they all use everyday less than 20% as effective as before, so we cant even be happy that its on all sentinels.

[PapaFragolino]

46 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

No, we must rous the rabbles!  Rebel!  Cause anger!  Grr, arg!

But top ideas, Ev.  Seriously.

Skip the passive, dispense loot at the end of the mission.  This allows players to focus on the mission objective as well as the side objectives, likes Synthesis scanning, 10 headshots or Cephalon Fragments. 

The real problem here are ammunition and orbs, what directly affect the combat experience.