[TWW] Sorties Changes/Additions Feedback

[Valgaarv]

Please erase Forma and Nitain from sorties, I had 4 of those in a row

[digit0nyx]

As frustrating as it is to get endo for a week straight, and miss out on anything from the table i might value, i have reached a new level of frustration. Today i recieved 3 nitain. I already had more than i'll probably ever use in this game and no more items to build that require it. So today i plowed through sorties to get a reward I have NO USE for. Please take nitain OUT of sorties and find a better place to distribute it. While you're at it, could you keep up the work on reducing how often the endo reward drops? That is also very frustrating and makes me not want to bother continuing to do sorties. Considering it's one of the few things that keep me logging in, i would say this change could mean the difference in whether or not i continue as a regular player.

[JHarlequin]

 Judging the pros and cons of the nitain situation pretty much makes the nitain sortie reward a bad thing.  The pros are roughly, a sources of nitain and available anytime that you have time to finish the missions, and three at a time.

 The cons though eliminate those and go farther.  Nitain has limited usage, so being available endlessly just isn't necessary.  And the chance of a drop rules out that it is a useful source.  The time and ability to finish the missions pretty much make it a bit less available then the nitain alerts, even if they are given three at a time, it doesn't pay off.

 A side note that doesn't exactly fit in pro or con is that at least it isn't from a Trial.

 Even before we compare nitain to the other rewards, or to it's random chance, it just isn't worth it for any reason other then it might be available a bit more conveniently then getting cahces on some missions, or from the alerts which people just have no luck catching.  When you compare it to everything else on the list, it has use as a reward for a very limited period.  Several of the arguments against nezha apply to nitain as well.  After you get what you need, it is no longer a reward.  It is a stronger argument against the nitain resource because we can get it somewhere else and it can't be traded like Nezha could.

 In so many ways that come up, some people want nitain and there needs to be another source of nitain, but Sorties are not a good provider of nitain as well as it becomes just another bad drop moment when you grind through the sortie just to get nitain.

 It won't stop us from playing, but we will likely be here often to keep speaking to the complete lack of value of some items because they aren't rewards.

[Syvarin]

The most frustrating part of sortie rewards is that there is no way to work toward what you want.  Every day it's a roll of the dice to determine whether today's effort was fruitful or just a waste of time.  There's no way to affect the outcome or build up to reaching a goal.  It can be extremely disheartening.

I've run the sortie every day, without fail, for the last three weeks. During that time, I have not gotten a single Riven mod. Not one.

Am I just unlucky? Sure. The laws of probability don't guarantee success based on repeated failures. (I don't know what the chance to get a Riven mod was to begin with, but it's supposed to be 20% now. The chances of not getting one for 21 days straight is .92%, which is roughly 1 in every 100 players.)

What about the time spent, though? I decided to check how long it took to run today's sortie. From the time I clicked the first mission until the final reward screen with 2000 Endo took 30 minutes, 9 seconds. Today's sortie wasn't an especially long or especially short one.  Assuming it's average, 21 days of sorties comes out to over ten and a half hours.  And what do I have to show for all that time? A forma (useful but easily farmable in far less time), an Orokin catalyst (I have over 20 gathering dust), 3 or 4 lesser lenses (which I don't need), 2 greater lenses (which I don't need and can't be traded), and a bunch of Endo. (Thankfully, no Nitain. I'd rage pretty hard if I wasted half an hour getting three Nitain.)

There won't be a 22nd day of sortie for me.  I give up.  It's just too frustrating and I feel like I'm wasting my time instead of having fun.

The funny thing is, I wouldn't suggest raising the chance of getting a Riven mod. 20% is a fairly high drop chance. It's chance itself that isn't good enough when the missions take a long time and can only be run once per day.

I'm not angry at the developers for creating something new and making it take so many tries to get. Nor am I especially upset they didn't go through with creating the sortie token system they talked about. (Another new currency just doesn't seem necessary.) There has to be a better way to do this, though.  Perhaps if we could choose between our random sortie reward and a set amount of Endo, and we could purchase sortie rewards from someone using Endo as currency.

That would solve so many problems. People would stop complaining about rolling Endo, people would have the choice of getting something useful instead of something they personally can't use, and even the unlucky few could work toward purchasing a Riven mod.

[Mbgunsling]

My only real input on Sorties is to remove Endo from the rewards table.

you shouldnt have to go to all the effort of slaving through a solid portion of the game, optimizing your builds, assembling and/or co-ordinating with a party on literally the most harrowing missions available in warframe, a set of missions that can only be completed once daily.

only to get a "reward" that I can and often do get from 10-15 minutes of casual farming on ceres.

You are literally offering something that is more common than several building resources for a >50% chance reward in the hardest mission set in the game.

This is in reference to the "silver" tier reward of 4000 endo.

That's like giving the player a minor potion of healing after they beat an endgame boss.

Its bad enough we have to hope to god that when our rivens roll they don't land on an objectively worthless weapon (of which there are a great many), we shouldn't have to have to compete to such an absurd scale with getting goddamn gumballs.

This alone has turned me off Sorties. I am genuinely willing to totally eschew My favourite set of daily missions and an entirely revolutionary world of modification because you insult players intelligence with such bold faced "RNG" as if you almost think its "fun" to throw a common as dirt resource at us for playing the endgame you made

I've lived with the already laughable RNG of the game. this is beyond absurd.

This isn't a grind, its a 360 kickflip with extra "F*** you"

Edited December 6, 2016 by Mbgunsling

[ograzzt]

19 minutes ago, Mbgunsling said:

only to get a "reward" that I can and often do get from 10-15 minutes of casual farming on ceres.

I'm sure many people will want to hear how are you gonna get 2k endo for 10-15 minutes. Especially on Ceres.

It's not like I want to say it's good reward. It isn't. But there are far worse rewards now in sorties - forma, nitain, exilus adapter blueprint. Reactors are also completely useless for many people. So I don't really see why people still complaining only about endo.

Got the endo? Too bad, but could be worse 

[Mbgunsling]

34 minutes ago, ograzzt said:

I'm sure many people will want to hear how are you gonna get 2k endo for 10-15 minutes. Especially on Ceres.

It's not like I want to say it's good reward. It isn't. But there are far worse rewards now in sorties - forma, nitain, exilus adapter blueprint. Reactors are also completely useless for many people. So I don't really see why people still complaining only about endo.

Got the endo? Too bad, but could be worse 

Nitain- Just as bad, you should not get a (laughably common) resource, but nobody complains about it because its rarity is outweighed by Endo to such a point where it is effectively not on the list, like most of the other rewards

Forma- Debatably too common as of the relic system, I feel relics are what need a tweak to make forma an actual rare resource. Forma should be a potential reward:it is used to turn your warframes from relatively potent killing machines into literally invincible pillars of unbridled destruction and for some reason make some weapons.

Exilus Adapter- While not in the same capacity as forma, these still make a very critical slot on your frame available for use, and unless you plan on grinding syndicate missions for several years, these are a decent output from a sortie. largely because you don't get them common as dirt from using four Nekros' on Draco defense unlike another disposable resource that is in both the sortie reward pool and the drop table for ammo crates

Reactors- I feel reactors and catalysts should be sortie exclusive. None of getting them from invasions or alerts. If you want a tool that turns you into aforementioned destruction pillar You'd better be ready to go through pure glowing blue blood, sweat, and tears for a ~1/6 chance of getting it. Kind of like focus lenses.

Sortie rewards need to offer things Other than Rivens, so players can have a moment to go "dang" if they didn't get their preferred reward but at the same time they can still go "well at least I got a [valuable item], of which I may choose to use to become DESTRUCTO PILLAR or sell for a sizeable amount of platinum that will permit me to work towards whatever intended goal I do have planned. I feel that while my effort did not amount to my ideal outcome, the test of skill I have faced has rewarded me sufficiently in another department"

the response should not be "You gave me Endo. you gave me a resource that is dropped by the level 1 marines on Earth. You made me defend a mentally handicapped operative while they wandered aimlessly around a pagoda, avoided any defensive measure we put up to protect them, and got my teammates downed countless times, all while using noting but pistols, and when those ran out, my warframe powers alone, and you gave me @(*()$ ENDO"

 

Basically sortie rewards as a whole need a(nother) rework, along with the rewards they offer to make them feel more exclusive (like they once were a few updates back lolpowercreep) and you eliminate a good 70% of the problem by not offering dirt as one of the rewards.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Mbgunsling

[Caelward]

Since the release of TWW I have been doing the sorties constantly without any luck finding the newly released Rivens. It isn't until today that I finally found one.

This thing resets if I happen to stop touching the wall, and the alarm thing vastly limits what missions I can actually take it into. And when I say it resets when I stop touching the wall, I mean exactly that. I didn't touch the floor and it reset to 0.

I've gone how long to find this frustrating thing? The worst thing is I was already convinced it was gonna be some stupid combination like this. Lo and Behold, here it is.

I still have to find out what weapon it decides I deserve.

After a couple hours of trying, I'm done for the night. Maybe tomorrow will be a different day. This one has not been an enjoyable day. Any day a player ends on a sour note due entirely to game mechanics is not one DE should be proud of.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Caelward

[rngd444]

9 hours ago, Mbgunsling said:

Nitain- Just as bad, you should not get a (laughably common) resource, but nobody complains about it because its rarity is outweighed by Endo to such a point where it is effectively not on the list, like most of the other rewards

On 5.12.2016 at 3:38 AM, Biscotchi said:

Received a total of 12 nitain so far from sorties and each time it happens it feels like a punch in the d***. Remove it already!

When you look at the thread, almost everyone complains about it.

 

9 hours ago, Mbgunsling said:

Forma- Debatably too common as of the relic system, I feel relics are what need a tweak to make forma an actual rare resource. Forma should be a potential reward:it is used to turn your warframes from relatively potent killing machines into literally invincible pillars of unbridled destruction and for some reason make some weapons.

Some weapons need five to seven Forma (even more so with Rivens) and you want to make them rarer? Ehh, no. I craft one almost every day and consume most of them in the same week. If anything, make it at least two built Forma.

 

9 hours ago, Mbgunsling said:

Exilus Adapter- While not in the same capacity as forma, these still make a very critical slot on your frame available for use, and unless you plan on grinding syndicate missions for several years, these are a decent output from a sortie. largely because you don't get them common as dirt from using four Nekros' on Draco defense unlike another disposable resource that is in both the sortie reward pool and the drop table for ammo crates

I'm curious what Syndicate missions you're talking about. Rewarded by Simaris (or Teshin for 50 and 75k respectively), it takes as much as three days (or even less than two, depending on your MR) and requires two built Forma which shows how bad of a reward this is. Before 19.1, a fully-built one was rewarded - they're either deliberately stating false facts on the 'previous rewards' segment or (more likely) it's just an oversight - no matter which one it is, they should change it back.

Of course, everything in this game will eventually hit a wall in terms of usefulness for different player groups. The thing is, this happens way later for Endo than e.g. Nitain (or two days worth of standing) given the vast amount of (Primed) mods one can tinker with. Also, what's this Draco Defense. :P

 

9 hours ago, Mbgunsling said:

Reactors- I feel reactors and catalysts should be sortie exclusive. None of getting them from invasions or alerts. If you want a tool that turns you into aforementioned destruction pillar You'd better be ready to go through pure glowing blue blood, sweat, and tears for a ~1/6 chance of getting it. Kind of like focus lenses.

Putting more stuff exclusively on Sorties is bad. Really bad actually, considering how new players will be all the more screwed by this (even more so now that you have to complete TWW instead of just being MR4). You can call them tools but who are you kidding, they're mandatory by design. And anyone knows by now how bad of an idea it is to rely on one and only one drop table alone for (multiple) exlusive items (most prevalent on Rivens or on the opposite, namely how people get swamped by Nitain despite their supposedly low drop chance). Also, it's nothing like Lenses since they're not mandatory by any means and yet they flood the table just as much as Endo did before. Not getting the one you actually need (combined with how Greater Lenses still aren't tradeable) shows how bad this kind of system is.

Edited December 6, 2016 by rngd444

[bleubleu]

the reward tiers shown in the sortie panel CANNOT be real.

Lies.

I've done every sortie since TWW, only got 2 rivens, and already more lens ( 4 or more, dunno) AND catalysts ( 3 ).

it's crap, end of story.

Allow people to work toward the reward they want, or give a weekly mission that will give them (half of) the reward they want.

this gachapon random casino f2p tactics is crap, seriously.

[Caelward]

Well, until something changes, I'm washing my hands of sorties and kuva.

It's a shame too. It looked really interesting, something I wanted to play with.

But I just. cant. deal. with the rng involved in the whole system right now.

I'm playing this to RELAX. I'm playing this to have FUN. Instead, I've experienced a set-up that makes me livid.

[JHarlequin]

21 hours ago, Caelward said:

Since the release of TWW I have been doing the sorties constantly without any luck finding the newly released Rivens. It isn't until today that I finally found one.

This thing resets if I happen to stop touching the wall, and the alarm thing vastly limits what missions I can actually take it into. And when I say it resets when I stop touching the wall, I mean exactly that. I didn't touch the floor and it reset to 0.

I've gone how long to find this frustrating thing? The worst thing is I was already convinced it was gonna be some stupid combination like this. Lo and Behold, here it is.

I still have to find out what weapon it decides I deserve.

After a couple hours of trying, I'm done for the night. Maybe tomorrow will be a different day. This one has not been an enjoyable day. Any day a player ends on a sour note due entirely to game mechanics is not one DE should be proud of.

 

 I had one for wall cling or air glide, I ended up modding specifically for wall cling time and huge explosions so I could just sort of cheese through the challenge.  But that really wouldn't work against the "without raising any alarms part.  That is a very complex and messy unlock.

[PhoenixFury]

11 hours ago, JHarlequin said:

 

 I had one for wall cling or air glide, I ended up modding specifically for wall cling time and huge explosions so I could just sort of cheese through the challenge.  But that really wouldn't work against the "without raising any alarms part.  That is a very complex and messy unlock.

It's basically telling you "Bring Loki with Patagium somewhere with an open area and lots of dudes to shoot while cloaked on a wall somewhere"

Which is really specific. I had this challenge too and that was basically the only way I could do it. I might go as to say it's downright impossible for most frames to achieve.

Edited December 7, 2016 by PhoenixFury

[brokentool]

2k edno 4 times in 4 days. i mean.. i'm not even mad, that's just.. wrong

[Akimbo]

"Hey, we added these game-breakingly unbalanced mods to Sorties, but f*** you Tenno, you're going to get lenses for 10+ sorties in a row."

Seriously, RNG in my RNG in the RNG.

When you have all the frames, all the weapons and not much time to play (jobs are real) these terrible rewards ruin any chance of fun from Sorties and Warframe in general. There's honestly just not a lot of interesting content to do and the only interesting thing Warframe has had recently is locked behind too many layers of RNG.

Remove from rewards list:

• Nitain - these come from alerts
• Forma - these come from fissures
• Endo - this is just a kick in the balls
• Potatoes - alert rewards
• Lenses - just make these a crafted item
• Exilus Adapter - This is the only reason to keep doing captures. It belongs with capturing not Sorties.

(I feel like I forgot one of the other rubbish rewards, maybe a booster? You know, where I go to work and lose 50% of my reward simply because I have real life commitments and this weird urge to actually sleep sometimes.)

AND/OR

Introduce tokens as a reward for Sorties. These you can trade in for something you actually want. 2 or 3 sorties = enough tokens for a Riven mod for example.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Akimbo

[Cat_Jam]

JUST.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Cat_Jam

[Dama73]

My main issue with sortie rewards as they stand right now is the Endo drops.

2k endo is a joke, if it was 10k or 20k endo then that would be an ok reward but for me as it stands seeing 2/4k endo on the reward screen feels like a slap in the face, The other rewards are lackluster as well. potatoes, nitain, exilus, all of these are alert and sanctuary obtainables. and forma being included in the drop table is hilarious since its such a common drop from relics.

Lets face it Riven mods, credits and Legendary Cores are the only things people really do sorties for now.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Nova73

[Salenstormwing]

So my past 3 Sortie rewards, Riven Mod, 2k Endo, and 2k Endo.

Clem does not think 2k Endo is as uncommon as the devs say it was going to be.

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

17 hours ago, Nova73 said:

2k endo is a joke, if it was 10k or 20k endo then that would be an ok reward

That'd take it 2 days to lvl up a prime mod. I don't remember what it was like before introduction of endo, but did you really get enough fusion cores to be able to rank up a primed mod in only 2 days? Your complaint on that is total bullS#&$. I mean, they might as well completely get rid of endo and mod ranks and just let us have mods with maxed out stats as soon as they drop for us or when we buy them, right?

 Should they remove the 2k reward and leave only the 4k one (and maybe even increase it to say 5k), simply to reduce the rng chance of getting one of the endo rewards as other rewards may be more valuable to a gearter population? Sure. And also in that case, increasing the rewards from 4k to 5k or whatever it may be wouldn't be an overkill as endo rewards would be less frequent. However, the fact that you're asking for an increase from 2-4k to 10-20k is a laughing matter. I mean, come on, it's a feedback thread, you know that is not going to happen and simply because it's a completely unreasonable change to ask for.

17 hours ago, Nova73 said:

Lets face it Riven mods, credits and Legendary Cores are the only things people really do sorties for now.

The reality is that a LOT (I even dare say majority) of players that do sorties still actually need endo. Even if those players would still prefer getting some more valuable stuff from sorties, they still need that endo. There is only a small portion of players who can make use only of rivens/legendary cores. I'm sorry, but it's just not a good idea at all to change things for minority of players.  When you say "people", you're talking about yourself and a small number of other veteran players who also don't need anything but the couple aforementioned items (myself included, I don't badly need any of the sortie rewards really). But you also have to think about other types of players, not everyone has been playing the game for ages; not everyone has all day to play the game and as stupid as nitain reward may seem (and i agree that it's place is not the sortie reward table) you have to understand that not everyone has the time to be there for every nitain alert and there aren't too many throughout the day. So why don't we try and come up with something that will in some way satisfy most of the playerbase, which consists of all kinds of players.

So back on topic. the best thing i could come up with is a token system. To make it short, what token system stands for is basically a rewarding system where you do sorties and you get X number of tokens (or it can be named whatever else) for them and you go to a vendor that sells all these sortie rewards for Y amount of tokens. The item prices at vendor would naturally reflect their rarity in the current rewards system (though we can all agree that some of them should also be rearranged as they are right now), which means that you would have to collect tokens for a "longer" period of time to get some of the rare items as per current reward table and the other way around for items that are more common, of course.

Now, in what way are the tokens distributed, whether you get them all at once or there's an rng chance as to how many you get after each mission, the prices of items themself and so on - all those things are up to debate, should the community and DE, of course, accept this idea. 

I didn't want to go too deep into the details, I don't think it's needed to literally throw out a whole thoughtout system as what it should look like once implemented into the game. It's just a basic idea of how the system would function and i think it would suit all types of players in our community.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Gruumzh

[Horrigan49]

Please REMOVE Fortress Defense mission with HOSTAGE from sortie rotation... That mission goes like this "Anything in that mission instagibs you because it will not telegraph ANY sort of attack or sight that ts gonna grill or zap your arse or gas you to hell... then your walking dildo hostage just waltz up into the Hazardous gas, dies, anybody trying to ress him dies as well, 15 minutes of trying gone, WP, GG, This is not FUN AT ALL.. if you want to make it hard, please, do so, but pure IMPOSSIBLE is was out of borders.. 

[Akimbo]

Lens, lens, lens, lens, Greater lens, lens, lens, Greater lens, 2k endo, lens, 2k endo.

[Caelward]

And even cooler is they're currently planning to remove rifle riven mods from the sortie drop table and replace them with secondaries when they are released.

Hope you have your collection done by then!

[LuckyCharm]

Dear DE, Please don't remove rifle rivens from the drop tables when you bring in secondary ones. Some of us have been barely lucky to find them, let alone find them for weapons we actually use, or end up with such terrible rolls it's not worth paying thousands of kuva to reroll a dera mod

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

16 hours ago, Horrigan49 said:

Please REMOVE Fortress Defense mission with HOSTAGE from sortie rotation... That mission goes like this "Anything in that mission instagibs you because it will not telegraph ANY sort of attack or sight that ts gonna grill or zap your arse or gas you to hell... then your walking dildo hostage just waltz up into the Hazardous gas, dies, anybody trying to ress him dies as well, 15 minutes of trying gone, WP, GG, This is not FUN AT ALL.. if you want to make it hard, please, do so, but pure IMPOSSIBLE is was out of borders.. 

I can agree that it's a bit messy. I'm not sure if there are or are not any indicators as to what the f is happening, in regards to all the things that are damaging you, but it may just be the fact that i was doing the mission for the first time. Honestly, it was not SUPER hard. It was more challenging than a lot of sortie missions so far that are complete faceroll, and i really like that, but if you had a decent squad with teammates that brought useful warframes to the mission then you'd see that it isn't even close to being impossible. 

Also another positive thing, i love that the mission was eximus stronghold, literally almost capped out my focus for the day just doing that one mission. 

12 hours ago, Caelward said:

 

And even cooler is they're currently planning to remove rifle riven mods from the sortie drop table and replace them with secondaries when they are released.

Hope you have your collection done by then!

 

Yeah, i opened the stream just as they were mentioning that. I don't know, it seems like everyone else has been super unlucky with the riven drops. Because of that, i do strongly disagree with their intention of replacing the primary rivens for secondary rivens, even though i've already got 7 of them. I guess i was pretty lucky with not only getting the unveiled mods from sorties somewhat frequently (7 so far), but they also include weapons like soma, cernos, braton, zarr...

But yeah, i definitely think that they should not get rid of them. There's tons of people who were not able to get more than a couple and it's already been a while since they were introduced, if you consider the fact that you have a chance to get them every day. The best thing to do would be to replace forma or nitain with secondary rivens. Let's be honest neither of those two (forma/nitain) deserve a place in the reward table with how rare they are NOT  in comparison to other items.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Gruumzh

[DogManDan]

I am simply going to leave a link to my video discussing my complete thoughts on sorties and the reward pool now available. I have also encouraged others who follow my channel to leave their complete thoughts on it as well and would hope that DE will actually look at it along with comments in this thread and maybe #FIXTHEPOOL

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLexEtbYq20