[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2!

[[DE]Rebecca]

Some of this Dev Workshop will be a continuation from Part 1 (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/719453-spoiler-dev-workshop-new-mods/), but the rest will cover some more clear changes coming to Riven Mods.

Part 1 Primer: Riven Disposition.
You may recall we talked about 'Riven Disposition' on Monday. Here's the repeated information in a nutshell: 

- 'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.
- This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones.
- Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix.

This means that existing and future Rivens will have stats that skew based on a given weapon.  

What have we changed already?
The past couple of Hotfixes have had more fixes than changes, but we have released some iteration.

- Riven Mods now have more information available after they have been Cycled and Unveiled so more can be deduced at a glance. This includes Mastery Rank and Item compatibility, as well as how many Cycles have occurred of a given Riven.     
- Tweaked and removed some of the more frustrating challenges for Riven Unveiling.     
                
What changes are coming soon?
The following changes are coming soon:

- You will only have to Unveil a Riven Mod one time: on first discovery.
- When Cycling a Riven with Kuva, you can now choose to "Accept" or "Decline" a Cycle result.
- Kuva Cycling costs have been reduced significantly.

Before:
Cycle 1: 900
Cycle 2: 1000
Cycle 3: 1300
Cycle 4: 1800
Cycle 5: 2500
Cycle 6: 3400
Cycle 7: 4500
Cycle 8: 5800
Cycle 9: 7300
Cycle 10: 9000

After:
Cycle 1: 900
Cycle 2: 1000
Cycle 3: 1200
Cycle 4: 1400
Cycle 5: 1700
Cycle 6: 2000
Cycle 7: 2350
Cycle 8: 2750
Cycle 9: 3200
Cycle 10: 3600

- Accessing Kuva Siphons is being experimented with to not be a random chance in a tileset, but rather a guaranteed spawn on planets when the Fortress is in the vicinity (like Fomorians and Negators) with a possible cooldown. To be determined!

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Thanks for reading, stay tuned for more updates!

 

[Machine_Head]

excellent im looking forward to these changes but will you enable another way for riven mods to be obtained outside sorties.

as some of us (myself included) cant get a good team for sorties

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Machine_Head
questions

[Flaezon]

nice

[Nikodemos]

This is definitely a step in the right direction, good work!

[paul5473]

thank you for the info! :)

[OzoneSlayer]

Can't wait for rivens for other weapon types!

[tnccs215]

As someone who sees many problems with the current iteration, I am quite happy with this announcements.

The idea to accept or decline a roll, in particular, is extremely welcomed and a good idea in general: If you cant ensure a better result, at least you can ensure it doesnt get worse.

I would also like to remind you that maybe the way the bonus works should be changed, specially for less powerful weapons.

+300% crit chance for the supra is meaningless, while it is a monstruous buff to, say, the soma.

On the other hand, however, +20 raw crit chance would be a world of difference for the supra, but not so much for the Soma.

That is, as many have said before me, in addition to reduce the buffs accordingly to the greater base amount of power of a gun; perhaps you should too consider the idea of changing the buffs into base, additive values (instead of the current multiplicative). It would even make your job easier, since you could actually had IPS damage bonus to elemental weapons that way, and give the exotic, interesting results you say you aim for.

[EDIT]:

Even though I've made a thread about it, Im adding this for visibility's sake.

In short, I have two questions:

QUESTION 1: How will you deal with the different power levels in weapons of the same series (which can all take the same Riven mod)?

If you base the Riven Disposition on the base weapon, there are possibilities the most powerful of the series to get too much of a boost. Example: The boost the Cernos needs to be good is much bigger than the one considered advisable to give to the Rakta Cernos, and there is a risk of making the second way too powerful.

(If propositions are welcomed, I suppose you could add a "Riven Factor" to each weapon of the series, that would multiply each buff accordingly to its needs. For example, the Cernos would get 1x a fire rate buff, while the Rakta would get 0.5x)

QUESTION 2: How will you deal with weapons that, in paper, are good; but in practice, are not?

Take the Daikyu for example. The greatest rae damage of all bows, outstanding status chance... But it's subpar at best.

This is born out of the fact that fire rate and Crit chance matter more for bows than other weapons, and how status chance matters less-- both due to the fact it is a bow, and how it has low fire rate.

That is, I hope that, when you create the algorithm that deals with Disposition (if you dont hand tailor each Disposition to each weapon), you take into account the difference "worths" of each stat to each weapon class (the reliance on burst damage of bows makes high crit chance much more necessary, so a 50% chance is worth as much as 25% on other weapons), as well as the several interaction between each stat ( a 45% status chance is worth much less on a slow firing weapon than a 20% status chance is on a high fire rate weapon).

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by tnccs215
added pertinent questions. also, I hate this editor

[[DE]Rebecca]

Just now, OzoneSlayer said:

Can't wait for rivens for other weapon types!

Yup! We want to get it better set up on Rifles first before we expand, which is why they have had such a limited release so far.

[Archwizard]

I have no problem with the mods being a little RNG... just with them being unweighted, completely uncontrolled by players, and layered. 

There was a suggesion on the Warframe reddit by SHADOW-XIII that I particularly liked, which treats Riven mods much like Relics: When players unlock it, give them a choice between a limited handful of randomly selected available options for the next stat to add to the mod, so they have a choice between what stats they want without necessarily having the control to build the whole mod to be god-tier. If they don't like one or any of the options, or the values of each stat, THEN use Kuva to reroll the whole mod.

Then you just have to standardize the stat values, or add weights to the stat values based on the order you select them in, so that you don't have two mods with identical stats on them in the same order but one with inferior values in all categories for Lotus-knows-what-reason.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Archwizard

[EmptyDevil]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Some of this Dev Workshop will be a continuation from Part 1 (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/719453-spoiler-dev-workshop-new-mods/), but the rest will cover some more clear changes coming to Riven Mods.

Part 1 Primer: Riven Disposition.
You may recall we talked about 'Riven Disposition' on Monday. Here's the repeated information in a nutshell: 

- 'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.
- This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones.
- Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix.

This means that existing and future Rivens will have stats that skew based on a given weapon.  

What have we changed already?
The past couple of Hotfixes have had more fixes than changes, but we have released some iteration.

- Riven Mods now have more information available after they have been Cycled and Unveiled so more can be deduced at a glance. This includes Mastery Rank and Item compatibility, as well as how many Cycles have occurred of a given Riven.     
- Tweaked and removed some of the more frustrating challenges for Riven Unveiling.     
                
What changes are coming soon?
The following changes are coming soon:

- You will only have to Unveil a Riven Mod one time: on first discovery.
- When Cycling a Riven with Kuva, you can now choose to "Accept" or "Decline" a Cycle result.
- Kuva Cycling costs have been reduced significantly.

Before:
Cycle 1: 900
Cycle 2: 1000
Cycle 3: 1300
Cycle 4: 1800
Cycle 5: 2500
Cycle 6: 3400
Cycle 7: 4500
Cycle 8: 5800
Cycle 9: 7300
Cycle 10: 9000

After:
Cycle 1: 900
Cycle 2: 1000
Cycle 3: 1200
Cycle 4: 1400
Cycle 5: 1700
Cycle 6: 2000
Cycle 7: 2350
Cycle 8: 2750
Cycle 9: 3200
Cycle 10: 3600

- Accessing Kuva Siphons is being experimented with to not be a random chance in a tileset, but rather a guaranteed spawn on planets when the Fortress is in the vicinity (like Fomorians and Negators) with a possible cooldown. To be determined!

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Thanks for reading, stay tuned for more updates!

 

Thank you! Omg... I was getting kinda frustrated with the spawning mechanics because it was so vague.

[Phatose]

Anything being talked about on the side of making them more obtainable, or able to change what weapon they're for?

Got one for the Daikyu - which I detest.  And trying to get another mod is frustrating, to say the least, with the low chance and one roll per day sortie only acquisition method.

[S0ulCal1ber]

just out of curiosity, Why was rifles chosen as a start for riven mods? 

also is it possible to fix the kuva clouds to make them more visible and easier to block as its kinda hard to tell them apart when there is lots going on...

can't wait for melee and secondary riven mods though.

edit: not so much to do with riven in general but maybe take a little stress of the RNGesus thing can we get at least 2 sets of sorties per day instead of one? after the 1 is complete i kinda feel there is nothing else to do that is amusing and having at least 2 attempts at the rewards and riven mods might make them a bit more appealing 

Edited November 17, 2016 by S0ulCal1ber

[vigilant_hunter]

Now we need a slight buff to riven mod reward drops 'cause I've ran every sortie since U19 dropped and gotten 2k endo almost every time with 1 lens as a palate cleanser.

[LoopStricken]

9 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

with a possible cooldown. To be determined!

I hope you determine not to have a cooldown for kuva farming. Timegates are very frustrating for items that can't be bought.

[Godzilla853]

Can we have them drop some other place then sorties they can be in sortie then in somewhere else also

[LoopStricken]

1 minute ago, vigilant_hunter said:

Now we need a slight buff to riven mod reward drops 'cause I've ran every sortie since U19 dropped and gotten 2k endo almost every time

Also this.

 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

@[DE]Rebecca  I just see one thing being unclear, will the stats be fixed and then fluctuate with the Riven Disposition? For example a tonkor mod can get +dmg of 120% or 175%, will this keep the stat differentiation and then just bring it down/up, or make it so percentage RNG isn't a thing anymore?

[Vali]

6 minutes ago, S0ulCal1ber said:

just out of curiosity, Why was rifles chosen as a start for riven mods? 

Because Shotguns kinda make most rifles useless...

[SDGDen]

damn.... DE needs to listen to the smart ppl in this comunity more.... 

only thing is. maybe add more ways to get riven mods. like teshin challenges maybe? 

6 minutes ago, Agentawesome said:

Because Shotguns kinda make most rifles useless...

uhm... if "cant go over level 160" is useless. then yes. but dont forget. rifle mods are also equipable on launchers. beam weapons and bows. not to mention there are are 3 different kinds of rifles (full, semi and sniper) 

[Kaliphear]

I still personally dislike the return to "full random" mods. I've always liked the consistency of the mod system thus far (I started around U10, so the current mod system is all I've ever known), and the random nature of both the stat distribution and weapon of a riven mod is an immediate turn off.

[Xebov]

17 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Kuva Cycling costs have been reduced significantly.

Will the differences between old cost and new cost be given back to players?

[Hixlysss]

- Accessing Kuva Siphons is being experimented with to not be a random chance in a tileset, but rather a guaranteed spawn on planets when the Fortress is in the vicinity (like Fomorians and Negators) with a possible cooldown. To be determined!

ALL OF MY YES, PLEASE FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY! But don't have a cooldown, please >w>; If need be reduce the amount of kuva we get but please do not give us a cool down...

[Sauravisus]

@[DE]Rebecca, any chance of the Riven Mods getting a weekly quest to be obtained, like the Ayatan statues? That way we aren't limited by super crappy RNG from the Sortie rewards pool. So far, since U19 dropped, I've gotten a focus lens one day, and 2000 Endo the rest. I know RNG is RNG, but c'mon. This just blows.

Also, any chance for an option to reroll the weapon type of our Rivens, rather than the bonus they get? Maybe at a higher Kuva cost than just rerolling the bonus?

[(PSN)TrollyThyTrinity]

16 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yup! We want to get it better set up on Rifles first before we expand, which is why they have had such a limited release so far.

Weapons the only  mods we will see?

[notlamprey]

@[DE]Rebecca

A lot of these seem like very positive changes for the players; really encouraging to see!

Many players would still like to see further questions addressed, like:

Spoiler

Doesn't the limit on Riven Mods appear to contradict the stated goal of giving players more choice and encouraging creativity?

Are Kuva Cycling costs still going to scale to arbitrarily high amounts? A limit on maximum cost feels very needed.

I'm sure all that will be discussed in time, since the sheer volume of information flying around has got to be taxing everyone to their limits already. Such a rapid and significant response is greatly appreciated!

This is why we care so much about our game and our devs.