Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nagisawa]

The Bladestorm animations, and I can't believe I'm saying this as I LOVE THEM and I don't mind the non-interactive aspect cuz I love watching the pretty stabbies, is that for group play, they are a liability.

They up time better spent killing more stuff.  If this was a FULLY single player game, where Ash was the only frame, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but the moment you haev 2 or more players and 1 Ash.  It locks the Ash player out of content, assuming they can even get a Bladestorm off.  Which sadly is unlikely.

So as much as it hurts me to say this (PLEASE NO!  DON'T!) I say they should be removed.  For group play.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

As we can see players (like me) do not like the bladestorm rework that DE has done to Ash. In my opinion this is what DE  should have done to address the problem that most people have been talking about which is of watching the animation and people not being able to get kills when enemies are marked.

I say make put bladestorm back the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things and it is possible to do this because if you mark one enemy three times the other two marks you don’t do the clones do the two so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not.

Ash is my favorite warframe not just for bladestorm but for all his abilities. And now from what I see he is completely useless Put him in a full team with one of the players being ember and see what happens, you won’t be able to get any kills.

Dear DE out of all your reworks this is the worst one however ash 2nd and 3rd are great, Excalibur`s 4<sup>th</sup> ability got de-buffed with the damage but you can still use him (in a team) but Ash you can`t. Yes I get it Ash as an assassin marking enemies makes sense but you’re missing the point, the important thing; how he plays and Ash fans (including me) are disappointed so please DE for the sake of Ash fans, make Ash great again.

Edited December 4, 2016 by (PS4)Vexx757

[Seryin]

I typically never come to these things to voice my opinion, but this change pretty much detroyed my favorite game for me. I have about 68% played with ASH at like 300k kills. Ash is really the only frame I enjoyed playing. I gave a really desperate attempt to accept this change to his Ultimate, but ulimately I no longer have ANY use for it. It at least, USED TO BE, a more reliable panic button than smokescreen. I have better DPS with my primary, secondary or melee, I wouldnt waste the energy on this anymore. 

This effectively was a complete removal of Bladestorm to me. There is always a better option than this new bladestorm for me.

Considering I havn't done anything but log in since a few days after this update. This 4 time prime access player may just be done with this game completely over a single half assed revision.

I mean for christ sakes, you didnt even do what you claimed you were. Its NOT anymore interactable. I am still waiting for the same animations to end in the same annoying fashion.

 

[TheOnlyWarBear]

1 minute ago, Seryin said:

I mean for christ sakes, you didnt even do what you claimed you were. Its NOT anymore interactable. I am still waiting for the same animations to end in the same annoying fashion.

This... this is my main beef. We take MORE time to mark, and STILL have to watch more animations, I feel so restrained.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

Sounds like i can drop fatal teleport for seeking shuriken fun then. Bit bummed animations are still locked there but ehh. 

 

Lotta overreactions though as always.

Edited December 2, 2016 by (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam

[THeMooN85]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

now from what I see he is completely useless Put him in a full team with one of the players being ember and see what happens, you won’t be able to get any kills

Just today while themoon still shined I went to sortie on my Ember Prime... with just Ash Prime in my team (2nd mission, mobile defense) and guess what... we handled it superb fine. My Ember P even with 200% WoF can do little DMG but what WoF can do is make enemies "dance in fire" what makes them easy target for Ash... we managed to end the mission without any downs or dead on our site. Ember supported with superb Supra (no riven), spin2win Atterax and Ash with his weapons + Smoke Screen and Bladestorm are good team in some circumstances.

Plz stop whining about Ash rework... this one is a good one, because it stopped many unskilled ppl from using Ash with only one skill... now Ash needs tactic what makes him useful to the team.

[Markerlight]

I believe the rework should have removed the so called "cinematic" camera and have the bladestorm attacks be performed by Ash's clones while the main is free to continue shooting/melee/running. 

Think about just how much better Nekros' gameplay became after Desecrate became a toggle. Right now, Bladestorm is still an ability that forces control away from the player and that is one of the most poor design choices you can make.

[Toran]

I don't mind the Ash nerf, sorry "rework" but for one point:

• Blade Storm animation: isn't marking the targets enough waste of time? Do we really have to sit through the animations too? Let the clones do their work and Ash do his own. Block BS till the Clones are done

Even before the nerf rework I prefered teleporting and smashing enemy groups manually. I usually used BS for lazy kills (to get obstructed enemies without much fuss).

I think following changes could tremendously improve Ash's gameplay without overpowering him:

• leave the BS killing to the clones, let Ash do other things
• implement a finisher button (or button combo), so we don't automatically do the finisher on attack (unless we set it so). I, and I think many others too, use teleport mainly to get to a group for fast swipes with a blade. Manually avoiding the finisher just feels unintuitive, I'd prefer to actively use it if I specifically want to finish a target.

[ngrazer]

I would've gave Bladestorm some conical, MOBA-like, type of aim, but in 3D.

Combine this (3:38):

 With that (1:01):

And we'll have something very similar to Mesa's Peacemaker. I thinks that would make Bladestorm viable again. Because as of right now it's way easier and faster to kill enemies using your weapons... or other frames.

Edited December 2, 2016 by ngrazer

[Hypernaut1]

I played Ash on the corpus survival sortie 3 and did more than fine. For a "non team player" I was sure reviving a lot and activating a lot of life supports. I was able to smoke shadow while I escaped to a high spot and rain down BS across the map, able to help kill enemies around 2 teammates instead of one. This wouldn't have been possible with the old BS. It had it's advantages.

[THeMooN85]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I played Ash on the corpus survival sortie 3 and did more than fine. For a "non team player" I was sure reviving a lot and activating a lot of life supports. I was able to smoke shadow while I escaped to a high spot and rain down BS across the map, able to help kill enemies around 2 teammates instead of one. This wouldn't have been possible with the old BS. It had it's advantages.

See? This is what I mean... tactic. One man have it, other just want to keep spamming 4th skill. We can adapt to rework, some ppl just need more time... some ppl will never understand.

[AxxysQcWyld]

Ok so ive been thinking about it and here is the idea i came up with for ash's bladestorm you press 4 and it equips you with your ash daggers and spawn 2 clones of you the 2 clone teleport to random ennemies in a certain range around you and so as normaly they kill them but here is the thing i moddified in that time that your clones are going all assassin on the ennemies you get a special way of melee by pressing e for a melee attack with ash's daggers if an ennemy is in the reticle on your screen you are teleported behind them to do a finisher attack if no ennemies are on the reticle you slash with the special stance for the daggers  during the whole technique your energie slowly depletes a little like excalibur's exalted blade or valkyre's hysteria (resume:you press 4. 2 clones pops up and do the old fashion bladestrom in a radius around you while you equip your dagger's and start teleporting and doing finishers in the back of every ennemie you target all the while your energy slowly goes down) .sorry for the errors english is not my native language.

[SemperSupra]

I would have left it alone. What I miss most is the way that bladestorm attacked a radius within range of the target. I would like that back. I don't care about the animation but if that were taken care of that could be a bonus. At this point I'd be careful for what I wish for. Not likely to get better or fixed anytime soon.

Edited December 2, 2016 by kreep2.0

[LascarCapable]

Thread cleaned.

I would like to remind to everyone that posts such as "stop it OP, stop whining" are provocative and not constructive. You are welcomed to avoid them at all cost. Let people express themselves as long as it's not breaking the community rules, thank you.

[Drufo]

DE made various tries for Blade Storm, and this was one of those. They excluded it because it was OP and it was even less interactive that the old BS, and their aim with the rework was to give the ability more interactivity, not less

Edited December 2, 2016 by Drufo

[(PSN)Vexx757]

1 hour ago, kreep2.0 said:

I would have left it alone. What I miss most is the way that bladestorm attacked a radius within range of the target. I would like that back. I don't care about the animation but if that were taken care of that could be a bonus. At this point I'd be careful for what I wish for. Not likely to get better or fixed anytime soon.

Thank You

[Insizer]

Save Ash? You speak as if his revisit endangered him, made him unfit, or bad. He is fine, albeit a bit more energy hungry.

[Dragazer]

6 hours ago, Kunsumption said:

This... this is my main beef. We take MORE time to mark, and STILL have to watch more animations, I feel so restrained.

not to mention almost 3x the energy cost per attack now.

[UrielColtan]

An example of how ninja teleporting should be improved. Smooth, seemless and usable without a target. Targetted enemies/team-mates/and other specific items can just be reserved for teleporting greater distances than the base, and stealth kills of course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a concept on executing an exalted state for Ash, to replace the non interactive slideshow his fourth currently is, while still looking cinematic and stylish. Just add Ash's two clones to a concept like this for a more literal blade-storm. 

Obviously it does not have to look exactly like this, but the potential of a similar concept would be great.

Edited December 4, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Insizer]

I don't main Ash, but I started using him more to try out the revisit. I have to say that I really like the new Bladestorm, it is much more fun than the previous version. Granted it can be a bit energy hungry for non-optimal builds.

[Disaeo]

8 minutes ago, Insizer said:

I have to say that I really like the new Bladestorm, it is much more fun than the previous version.

Tell me where you found the fun on marking enemies that ultimately get oneshoted by teammates so I'll like the new rework too.

[Insizer]

22 minutes ago, Tetroner said:

Tell me where you found the fun on marking enemies that ultimately get oneshoted by teammates so I'll like the new rework too.

Because it reminded me of the lockon mechanics multi-missile armaments in fighter jet games which I love, but more importantly, having to mark the enemies actually made me do something... I'm sorry if others don't like it, but I found it much more enjoyable mechanically. There are a few things they could do, like remove the cinema scenes and lower the cost/improve the damage (maybe), but yeah, mechanically I find it much better.

I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, just putting forward my own. I'm sorry if you don't agree, but then again I don't really care whether you do or don't.

Again, I'm not saying it is perfect, because it isn't, the cinema scenes really have no purpose now. But the basic framework of it is better imo.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Insizer
added more

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Meanwhile everyone is waiting for Ash to stop stabbing things with his toothpicks. still waiting ......oh look a teammate is down....ash cant help hes tickling that ancient to death over there....still tickling....(new bard frame plays jeopardy song).......lol

Edited December 2, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[AdunSaveMe]

The main complaint with Bladestorm was that you press a button, and watch a cinematic.

Now, instead of that, you... sweep a bunch of targets, then press a button and watch a cinematic.

This has solved nothing. Sure it's technically more engaging, but that's all it has going for it. It isn't mechanically interesting, it isn't less vomit-inducing, and it isn't any less boring when you set off all those animations. Now it's just a bit harder to do it. It isn't more fun. Wasn't that the point? To make it more fun?

 

edit: thanks for burying this in the megathread so DE can conveniently ignore it.

Edited December 4, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Oranji]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

The main complaint with Bladestorm was that you press a button, and watch a cinematic.

Now, instead of that, you... sweep a bunch of targets, then press a button and watch a cinematic.

This has solved nothing. Sure it's technically more engaging, but that's all it has going for it. It isn't mechanically interesting, it isn't less vomit-inducing, and it isn't any less boring when you set off all those animations. Now it's just a bit harder to do it. It isn't more fun. Wasn't that the point? To make it more fun?

Exactly my point.
And what do I get? White Knights bashing me...

I have a very simple idea that I proposed months ago which I'm sure wasn't even read since they merged everything into one.

• Press 4 to Mark targets. Hit 4 again once satisfied and ethereal clones will Bladestorm those targets instead of you.  
• Marked targets that you teleport to are automatically Fatal-Teleported.
• Marked enemies within a set amount of range are all hit by skill 1 Shuriken with additional damage multiplier.

Doesn't this easily solve the Press 4 to watch cinematic issue while retaining the old Ash feel and making it more engaging?
I mean we don't even have to come-up with new skills we just need to fix the bad stuff and keep the good stuff.

Edit: I know its a stretch but while we're at it.

• Smoke Screen now cloak allies within a 10m radius.
• Blinding Smoke Augment: Blinds enemies with X radius leaving them open for finishers.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Oranji