Who Else Wants A Synoid Simulor NERF?

[Shockwave-]

19 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

This is a public, match-made, cooperative game. When you're playing in a shared environment, some balance is necessary to give everyone a reasonable chance to participate. The "let others play as they want" part is violated when a Synoid Simulor user mindlessly spams and cheeses the entire map, leaving nothing for other players to do except walk. YES, nerf. And it's obnoxiously flashy and noisy. Its visuals and audio need to be toned WAY down.

Yet on lower levels an ignis kills much faster than a simulor, so we have to ban that right? because it kills too fast on Mercury? An Endgame weapon used on mercury will alwasy make it a walk. That's how the game is, if you have high level content and low level content and you make high level people farm low level content for resources, invasions, or alerts you are going to get this situation of being overpowered.

Frames can already do this too. Take Ember to a 3rd sortie and she's severely underpowered. Walk her through mercury and she looks overpowered. That's the way it goes.

People will play what they want to play. if they usually do high level content they aren't going to change frames and weapons to do the nintain alert on Mercury to create a slower farm with artificial challenge.

 

When you play public you have to expect that you might join a player with a different play-style than you.

[Shockwave-]

3 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Ridiculous. You've got it backwards. Private "friends only" games are where crap like Simulor cheese is okay. In public games, you don't ruin things for everyone else. Have a little common decency!

How is it runing things for everyone else. The proper way to farm say a nintain alert is to do it as fast as possible so you can get back to playing the missions you want. Doesn't everyone want to do it as fast as possible and get out?

Are you saying that fast players who do want to go as fast as possible should slow down for others but others shouldn't speed up for fast players? Pubs are where you get different play styles. Using the best weapon in the game to make the mission go fast is sometimes the best option when it's a mission that is unwanted but the farm is necessary (like an invasion, or a nintain alert).

There are players who want to go as fast as they can, which means using the weapons that will let them move as fast as they can, and there are players that want to go slower. In a public server you risk playing with someone who doesn't share your outlook. You live with it, like a mature adult, and do the mission.

If you don't want to deal with public missions where you might run into players who play differently than you, then don't play them.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Shockwave-

[Endorphinz]

Yes, I think Simulor needs a nerf. The reasons being: it's powerful wide AoE damage, no risk of self-harm, and does not require aiming. It's kind of like the ignis, except where the ignis has embarrassing damage output, the Simulor can make the hardest sorties effortless (including the elemental damage-resistance sorties).

If that's not a good enough reason for you, and if you consider people calling for balance as being "salty" then, well, then I guess that's all I have to say.

[DreamsmithJane]

45 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

you're obviously from the gamers who want to fully play and feel every mission (I know someone like you), not rushing it . Even I don't like the way you want to change this (forcing it for everyone) there are a better solution who can satisfy everyone avoiding hate threads, dividing the match making pub in 2 ways.

-Explore : you take your time, and might want to explore the map, looking for ressources & Ayatan treasure or plants.

where we can ban/limit range AOE weapon if it's the thing who will always bother you (for the recent, Tonkor, Simulor, Ash)

-Rush : finish the mission ASAP, take the rewards, mooving to the next mission.

where any weapon/spell can be used without any restriction and the goal is just to complete the mission quickly

 

Oh, I don't mind rushing. I don't mind powerful weapons. I just don't want one of the most powerful weapons in the game to also be mind-numbingly easy to use. My problem with Simulor and especially its Synoid variant is that players using it often run through missions just spamming the fire button without looking, and you see a mess of glowing orbs all over the map. It's not that they want to run the mission fast. It's that they want to get the mission rewards without even trying. That shouldn't be considered a valid way of playing any game. So, no, I don't want any weapons banned in special game modes. I want them balanced, so we don't need a separate mode.

Again, to be clear, I don't actually want Synoid Simulor weaker. I'm fine with it demolishing a mission. I want it to require effort to do it. Before that, though, it needs to be dimmer and quieter, and that should be easy to do.

3 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

if you have high level content and low level content and you make high level people farm low level content for resources, invasions, or alerts you are going to get this situation of being overpowered.

I'm not talking about Mercury. I'm talking about Eris, the Void, and even sorties sometimes. And I'm not talking about playstyle. I'm talking about people deciding they don't want to play the game, so nobody else gets to play it, either. THOSE people should stay out of pubs, if that's how they're going to behave. And no, they shouldn't slow down. Again, I don't have a problem with fast. I have a problem with mindless.

[UvBenServed]

Huh, first I've heard of people having issues with the lights/sound from synoid simulor. Guess I just never paid much attention when someone else was using it. But I feel like these are criticisms that you could easily level at other weapons/abilities in warframe. Instead of altering these aspects of the gun itself, perhaps DE should include an option to adjust the brightness/noise coming from everything that your allies are using.

As for nerfing the damage output, I don't really care that much one way or the other. I enjoy using the synoid simulor, I enjoy using mirage, and sometimes I enjoy using the two together. Generally when I'm feeling lazy and wanna quickly solo some sorties or syndicate missions. But if DE decides to nerf either of these, then so be it. There's other weapons I like using and other warframes I like using. I just hope that neither of these get nerfed to the point of uselessness

[Rolunde]

Skipping all the posts and just addressing the Title and my own opinion.

First I'll go ahead and say that as far as I am concerned I'd be happy to see the SS fired out the closest airlock asap.

That said, I don't really have a problem so much with the damage output even when used by Mirage so much as just How g@d &%^$ annoying that thing is to be around when they're using it.

XPs etc. are shared so I don't really lose anything if they kill everything.
*(as long as they aren't running too far ahead and getting out of shared affinity range of course)

But it seems that the particular combination of Mirage+Synoid Simulor is almost always a combination of really bright energy and non-stop spamming.

There's plenty of things that can out do or at least compete with the damage there, especially in a non-static mission. And as far as that goes the worst thing that happens  is it's really boring. and I really don't get why they don't just queue solo? (e-peen, I guess?! /shrugs/)

But while I could just leave, most of the time it's not worth it. Like I said in the end as long as they weren't a complete and total 100% a (----) then we all get equal shares of the stuff. It's just sometimes there is a lot of eye-bleed along the way. 

/here endith my rant/ =p

Cheers!
~R~

[Luther848]

On 11/27/2016 at 5:54 PM, ADirtyMonk said:

Seriously.The synoid simulor can keep its damage and large AOE but it needs to do 30-50 finisher damage per merge so spamming orbs blindly or spamming and running forward like so many users do will get you killed very fast.

The fact that these weapons has very little travel distance is not a sufficient drawback given its AOE and how mobile we are.

I don't understand how this seems like a fair nerf. It is literally impossible to the avoid damage because the only way to do damage with the Simulor is the merge so players will either spam Health Pizzas and the Simnerfulor creating more of a visual mess or they will throw it in the trash. I don't have a problem with nerfing weapons that deserve it but destroying a weapon without solving any of it's problems is cruel. It's not even the Simulor's fault, it's Mirage's clones that are making it Simulor so easy to use so doing this wouldn't fix the problem. @Heckzu states it perfectly; if we made it so the Simulor orbs didn't merge with the clone's orbs it would make the Simulor much more balanced than a nerf to it's damage or range would.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Luther848

[Magneu]

People seem to be missing the overall problem with the SS.

It's not the damage; it's high, but there are several weapons that can apply greater damage in a (smaller) AOE/cone, or do extreme single-line damage.

What it is is two part; firstly, the extremely obnoxious FX. That has got to be toned down. I have a nice 27 inch monitor for my games. and anything above a dark color makes it impossible to aim/see/play near a Mirage spamming the fire button.

The second part, which SS defenders seem to conveniently ignore, is that the weapon is braindead to the extreme. There is literally no skill/reward ration with this weapon. Snipers take precision, shotguns take positioning, even explosives take aiming. SS however...simply spam in the general direction of enemies. Hell, it even has minor CC to enable you to not have to move at all.

Overall, 

1. The SS is intrusive to the gaming experience of other players. This is a simple QoL change, opposition to this change can/should be considered somewhat sadistic.

2. It deals meta-tier damage in a large AOE. Damage/range should be adjusted, as well as the stagger effect removed; no weapon should "have it all".

3. There needs to be some aspect of skill required to use the weapon. Remove the homing aspect of orbs? Limit total orbs available? Beats me.

There needs to be a risk and skill/reward ratio for everything in the game, or even a time/reward ratio. This cannot exist with the SS throwing that out the window.

While this entire post is opinionated and subjective, it's also about game design/game design theory, which is something that should not ever be neglected. SS is basically a plethora of middle fingers to the concept of game design/balance, and as such, must change.

[maddragonmaster]

heres an idea how about we limit the amount of singularities to just one decently powerful singularities that way there is very few times that fudging thing is firing. just have it relocate the black hole thing each time it is fired. if anything it would be considered a power up. just aim it at the spot you want  like at the defense target or just near you and that will pretty much solve the irritating firing sound this fracking thing is famous for. i just don't like the constant sound of the thing.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I don't think the Simulor deserves a nerf, I just think the weapon should be placed in more responsible hands.

Spoiler

Up the MR requirement

jk

The weapon is awfully powerful and can truly be a party pooper if abused. Some prefer to use it all the time. I choose to use the thing when in dire situations. I do my best to stay away from it and only use it when I have to and I'd have to say I've been doing a great job since I got it. I don't see the gun as something to be mained at all, and it shouldn't be when you have so many other unique and better choices to pick from.

My conclusion? Leave it be.

Warframe is warframe. Us Tenno kill, and may be presented with whatever tools we may feel suitable to do so. To each his own.

EDIT: On a serious note, I'm having a hard time thinking of a change for this weapon w/o rendering it useless. People use it for so many reasons that it seems hard to come to a compromise for all.

Edited November 29, 2016 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[Zavenosk]

Buff synoid simular, nerf hall of mirrors.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 3:00 PM, Misgenesis said:

Rework it into a beam weapon with orb alt fire that consumes more ammo.

so Quanta with spheres instead of cubes? I'd say that's completely changing the gun itself. I think you're missing the key definition of a rework.

Edited November 29, 2016 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[N64Gamefreak]

It's a gun that inflicts magnetic damage, so introduce the risk of a magnetic proc.  And the sound when fired at a high rate is annoying as hell.

[Awazx]

On 27/11/2016 at 5:16 PM, Doc-Orange said:

NO Nerf!

Play as you want and let others play as they want!

Ash players want to talk to you.

[ograzzt]

It's aoe gun, it kills light/medium units of sortie level enemies (while using mirage not only light/medium units of course, but she is self buffer dd frame, what did you expect?), it's not so good against heavy units without damage buffs/armor reduction auras, and it's fair. 

What is annoying for me is the firing sound and dozens of vortixes everywhere. These vortixes ironically are not the main sourse of Simulor damage (it's stacking orbs), but most people seems like don't know that or just don't bother to explode them.

Toning down vortixes (cap for maximum number of vortixes?) and lowering annoying sound is what Simulor really needs, not another direct damage nerf. It also already was nerfed by removing autoheadshot explosions.

Just like with Ash's blade storm wrong way of using ability (against infested and their auras, without speed and combo duration mods on melee, etc) by masses of people and their total ignorance leaded to constant nerf threads on the forums and eventually nerf to bladestorm.

Do we really need this? Do we really need another weapon ruined? All we need are visual/sound tweaks.

If we gonna nerf all weapons which can steamroll lowlevel content, go on, nerf Ignis too.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by ograzzt

[Zhoyzu]

they need to nerf the hell out of the sound it makes. i get tired of hearing that for 30-60 minutes.

[Zanchak]

They need to nerf simulor nerf threads

[EinheriarJudith]

i think when the usage gets high enough they will do something about it like with carrier until then we are going to be annoyed by the sound. i find it hilarious that every mirage ive seen uses it like there is no other weapon. that is a clear sign it needs to be toned down. ive long since removed it from my inventory out of the dislike for it.

Edited November 29, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[LuckyCharm]

I'll raise my hand about it needing a nerf. I don't really care how much damage it's nerfed by, what I'd want is a nerf to it's aoe. It's the biggest aoe weapon in the game (other than ignis) and it's not even necessary to aim it currently. Give it a radius like a normal launcher and it'd be strong still.. but not game breaking strong

[ograzzt]

@LuckyCharm Do you know why no one used regular Simulor before? Exactly because of very low range of aoe.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ograzzt

[Gabbynaru]

As a Mirage w/ Synoid Simulor solo player, I have to say, Synoid Simulor (and hence Simulor) is a rather difficult weapon to use without Mirage. Simulor does not need a nerf, it's already pretty difficult to use as is, which is why it should be as powerful as it is. It's Mirage who needs to be looked at, not Simulor. Simulor is fine. It's a strong weapon which is balanced by it's difficulty.

Also, considering it's mechanics, your average nerf (reduce damage) won't do jack all to Simulor, cause it's still an AOE weapon that deals a lot of constant damage, so, even if it takes double the  time to kill a group of enemies, it won't matter, as they'll keep being affected by elementals anyway, so, likely, they'll be stunlocked regardless.

Make Simulor do self damage, and the weapon itself becomes a suicide machine, so, no one will use it. Frankly, I already run into situations where the speed of the bullets is so slow compared to how fast Mirage runs, Simulor fires behind me, so, with self damage, that is a suicide. How do you play it then? Walk 10 meters firing, then wait 20 seconds until the singularity disappears? Yeah, that's not Warframe at all.

On the other hand, remove Mirage's ability to fire 5 bullets at once with Hall of Mirrors, and Simulor just becomes the weapon it was intended to be. Once again, it's Mirage that is at fault, not Simulor. The only thing Simulor needs is for the black color Singularities to actually be black holes, not the invisible mess they currently are. Retina burning is the only problem Simulor has, cause the bullets are invisible unless they are in really bright colors. Fix that and fix Mirage, simple.

[Helljack84]

Will you ask for Ignis or Tonkor nerf next? I need to keep my gear up to date so I don't waste valuable slots with soon to be trash tier stuff.

[UvBenServed]

8 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

Synoid Simulor (and hence Simulor) is a rather difficult weapon to use without Mirage

Gonna have to disagree with you on that. Without mirage, the simulor is awkward to use, at least while moving from point A to point B. But I don't really consider "awkward" and "difficult" to be the same thing. For example, with the telos bolace, it's awkward to just run around the entire mission slide attacking everything, but I wouldn't really call that difficult. Also, while the simulor might be awkward to use while on the move, it's VERY easy to use if you're just camping in one spot, regardless of what warframe you're using.

10 minutes ago, Gabbynaru said:

 

On the other hand, remove Mirage's ability to fire 5 bullets at once with Hall of Mirrors

Pretty sure they already did this like a year ago. Only 2 of her holograms actually fire projectiles.

[Shockwave-]

22 hours ago, DreamsmithJane said:

I'm not talking about Mercury. I'm talking about Eris, the Void, and even sorties sometimes. And I'm not talking about playstyle. I'm talking about people deciding they don't want to play the game, so nobody else gets to play it, either. THOSE people should stay out of pubs, if that's how they're going to behave. And no, they shouldn't slow down. Again, I don't have a problem with fast. I have a problem with mindless.

This is your opinion. Using the best, most efficient weapon is considered playing the game in well, every game ever made. When you're in a Battlefield game and there is a jeep and a tank available don't you take the tank? It's common sense. Saying players shouldn't be using a weapon is ridiculous, blame DE all you want if you don't like the balance, but saying a player isn't playing the game by using game content is way out in left field. You are assuming they share your opinion of the content in question.

If you have a problem with DE's content, then YOU should stay out of pubs, if the content you might encounter in pubs bothers you. I find no content in Pubs bothersome to me, so there is no reason I should stay out of pubs. Ditto the Simulor users. If they find no objectionable content in pubs, they should do pubs. The person who finds the content objectionable shouldn't do them, if that what it takes to have fun. Otherwise you are playing content police, determining which legal game content should and should not be used by other players in what situations.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Shockwave-

[ADirtyMonk]

19 hours ago, Luther848 said:

I don't understand how this seems like a fair nerf. It is literally impossible to the avoid damage because the only way to do damage with the Simulor is the merge so players will either spam Health Pizzas and the Simnerfulor creating more of a visual mess or they will throw it in the trash. I don't have a problem with nerfing weapons that deserve it but destroying a weapon without solving any of it's problems is cruel. It's not even the Simulor's fault, it's Mirage's clones that are making it Simulor so easy to use so doing this wouldn't fix the problem. @Heckzu states it perfectly; if we made it so the Simulor orbs didn't merge with the clone's orbs it would make the Simulor much more balanced than a nerf to it's damage or range would.

Because my understanding of the weapon is that it should function as a kind of delayed large AOE, high burst damage weapon. Drop down a few orbs in the middle of a crowd close enough so they start moving toward each other to merge, and parkour away before they do so players need to be somewhat considerate of their shot placement instead of current mindless run forward and spam powerful explosions without consequence which the weapon encourages now.

The S Simulor alone is pretty damn strong (regular simulor needs a buff) and mirage brings it over the top like she does with a lot of other weapons which she is supposed to do. If a good mirage can use the weapon with self damage that's amazing and they deserve to crush everything in their way but if they mess up they are probably dead because they just hit themselves with self damage x3 whereas a regular frame only takes a bit of self damage unless they decide to be brain dead and spam while standing in the AOE. Not instantly killing yourself for being in the AOE is already incredibly forgiving for an explosive weapon in warframe not counting the quanta secondary fire and the tonkor.

Edited November 29, 2016 by ADirtyMonk