Nidus really needs to get reworked

[Thundervision]

...yeah, no.

Spoiler

DE! You didn't pick my idea of Efficiency mods also affecting stacks for his 3 & 4 powers. Aww, c'mon :C

I'm really disappointed, DE... Really.

Spoiler

I'm serious.

 

On a more serious note, it's hilarious how I've read all those topics I've seen: all those doom/NERFED!!1 posts left and right. Sigh... and yet the reason of all that is:

*imagines*

-- ...but what makes you so special?

-- I'm running in under their bubble and trying to talk them down.

-- What? No slide-attacks? No shotgun surgery? Not even using parkour and bullet jumps?!

-- LMAO, DO I LOOK LIKE A DAMN CASUAL?! LOL.

[LordOfScrugging]

Add other players into the mix and it makes Nidus' job a bit more difficult

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)OTF SERENiTY said:

"I'm tryin ta ghet thoze Needis Stecks mun but thes Nullys keep kickin muh azz"

"I'm trying to get stacks but this one Nullifier keeps kicking my a$$"!

"Is it TheNullifier27?"

you pretty much have to stand in there like you just want a polite conversation about Corpus Economics in order to be affected by it. most people can kill a level 100 Nully in melee in less than a second, so if you're quick you won't even lose stacks (or only one or two). but hey, this was bound to happen: balance changes happen, knee-jerk reaction, salt dies down and we're back to normal.

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Shodian said:

But the bubble touches my soul and makes me feel all warm inside.

and gives you cancer. (no seriously, it's made of some kind of radiation, it doesn't act like normal shields. can't be healthy for the Crewmen using them, not that I really care.)

Edited January 12, 2017 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Chewarette]

Do they detonate when the Virulence is mirrored using the 3 on allies as well ?

Or is it only detonated with the "original" Virulence ?

[Extirpator]

Make the maggots explode when damaged.

By other warframe, by other weapons, by enemies AOE.

No one has time to go hunt for their own maggots when they are all over the place.

Since you already copy Nidus name from Nydus Worm (SC2) you might as well do it for maggots as to Banelings!

[Separius]

3 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

He did have it better than any other 'frame before the nerfs, as before the changes he basically suffered no penalty by entering nullifier bubbles whereas almost every other 'frame pays a huge penalty for it.

He couldn't cast, they couldn't cast, mesa had her 90% dmg reduction buff removed, so did Nidus. He was fine before the nerfs.

5 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

It removes every 'frame's damage reduction, why should Nidus be an exception here?

I didn't say that he should be an exception lol, what's with the strawmans all of the sudden. I said that to say that he was fine before the nerfs, he had his important buff removed just like many others had and he couldn't cast. He was fine before the nerfs.

7 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

And why do you always go to the 'Room full of tens of Nullifiers' argument.

Because it happens quite frequently and is an inconvenience for me and many others, when sapping ospreys are involved.

8 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

I've been playing since beta and it's not that common an occurrence to get trapped inside more than two or three stacked bubbles.

So have I. In fact the game is still in beta. Anyway, what does you being in beta have to do with being trapped by nullifiers?

 

14 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

The only exception is a few very specific sortie conditions that can lead to issues, but again, they cause massive issues to everybody

Yeah, they caused massive issues for everybody, Nidus included, he wasn't exactly sortie tier 3 corpus survival friendly before the nerf either.

 

27 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

I didn't really know enough about the mechanics of his 4 before the nerf to comment, but it still seems pretty viable and useful, especially given that it is potentially free to cast (obviously it has an immediate investment but it can pay for itself over time).

Well you know, If I had my little finger chopped off, I could still use my hand, still I'd rather it were the way I got the hand before it got crippled.

And you can keep telling "just deal with it, what happened happened, be glad that you still have your remaining 4 fingers", but that won't make it better.

You say it could be worse, I say it could be better. But obviusly you don't care and I don't care that you don't care, so there is no point in further discussing this.

[LordOfScrugging]

4 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Do they detonate when the Virulence is mirrored using the 3 on allies as well ?

Or is it only detonated with the "original" Virulence ?

I think that's a bit harder to test. I'd assume it'd have to be only nidus' virulence, given how DE normally is. But it might also depend on who is closer, you or the linked entity.

[Mudidy]

8 hours ago, Ignaeon said:

So, this sounds AMAZING on paper, but I've been playing Nidus for about 24 hours now and while it is annoying that Nullies now kill my stacks, I'm only mastery rank 6 and have not once needed to use undying going up to defense wave 35 with early game gear and 1 teammate playing Oberon. Nidus is OP, regardless of this nerf, in my opinion and doesn't need to be changed. I can still solo Kala Azar until wave 25 as long as my Nikana has Molten. I can still solo any mission up to Europa(after that I need atleast 1 teammate ONLY because of my early game gear). They did a damn fine job with Nidus, and the only change I can possibly ask for is that the link skill(which is largely useless, in my opinion) gets changed to something like what the mutalist moa use, a throwable but much much smaller version of his 4th skill.

His link late game is by far one of his more useful ablities with the 90% damage reduction it can give when modded to.

 

[OvisCaedo]

By all likelihood, they both just share namesake from some Latin word that means something appropriate to these kinds of species in fiction.

...But as far as the actual topic goes, having maggots actually detonated by teammates could be sort of nice. I think as a design Nidus has a problem with getting his own effectiveness gated by other allies' attacks and kills, so having something that gives him some chance of benefitting his own growth from ally help could be a nice change. It could also just result in maggots constantly exploding on nothing from indiscriminate ally AOEs, though. So really I'm not sure how it would play out.

[Man_In_Suitcase]

5 minutes ago, Extirpator said:

No one has time to go hunt for their own maggots when they are all over the place.

And that's just it, I won't need to since Virulence can dole out an obscene amount of damage when i get 20+ stacks. I haven't yet used Ravenous with the aim of increasing my dps, only for the healing. Nidus recent changes doesn't affect my playstyle at all.

[Rawbeard]

13 minutes ago, Extirpator said:

Since you already copy Nidus name from Nydus Worm (SC2)

lolwut?

[Wyrmius_Prime]

25 minutes ago, LordOfScrugging said:

Add other players into the mix and it makes Nidus' job a bit more difficult

Or the NIdus will steal most if not all of the kills since a low number of 30 stacks will increase the damage of Virulence enough to kill everything on regular star chart missions.

[Evanescent]

Or they could just make larvaed enemies attract maggots. SO you could bunch them up and make them go boom at once. MORE synergy!

[Mvtty]

35 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

A nerf was definitely needed, I agree with that. But in my opinion, it was executed in a bad way. Now you lose more stacks when the Undying passive kicks in, and now the maggots need to be detonated manually as well using Virulence. What this means is that Nidus players need to spam 1 way more than before. As if that wasn't annoying enough for non Nidus players pre-patch, but now it's even more annoying with even more Virulences going around.

That give Natural Talent a job, finally...

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Nidus - A place in which bacteria have multiplied or may multiply; a focus of infection.

They didn't copy his name from the Nydus worm. They used a very specific word in the English language that you didn't bother to look up lol. XD

I won't comment on the micromanagement at all...it was just bothering me that you decided he was a ripoff of another game without doing research. lol

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by (PS4)Riko_113

[Littlerift]

29 minutes ago, Separius said:

He couldn't cast, they couldn't cast, mesa had her 90% dmg reduction buff removed, so did Nidus. He was fine before the nerfs.

I didn't say that he should be an exception lol, what's with the strawmans all of the sudden. I said that to say that he was fine before the nerfs, he had his important buff removed just like many others had and he couldn't cast. He was fine before the nerfs.

Because it happens quite frequently and is an inconvenience for me and many others, when sapping ospreys are involved.

So have I. In fact the game is still in beta. Anyway, what does you being in beta have to do with being trapped by nullifiers?

Yeah, they caused massive issues for everybody, Nidus included, he wasn't exactly sortie tier 3 corpus survival friendly before the nerf either.

Well you know, If I had my little finger chopped off, I could still use my hand, still I'd rather it were the way I got the hand before it got crippled.

And you can keep telling "just deal with it, what happened happened, be glad that you still have your remaining 4 fingers", but that won't make it better.

You say it could be worse, I say it could be better. But obviusly you don't care and I don't care that you don't care, so there is no point in further discussing this.

 

Mesa would have her 95% damage reduction removed and thus lose 75 energy (assuming no efficiency mods) for no gain, whereas Nidus would lose his 90% damage reduction and lose one stack, which is very rarely going to cost even its default 40 energy due to the refund it gives. And just for S#&$s and gigs, bundled into the cost of casting Nidus' Link you also get to damage enemies with Virulence, you completely shut down an enemy by casting link on them, and the immunity lasts for more than twice as long as Shatter Shield does, so the energy efficiency of Nidus is still incredibly high.Before now his energy efficiency was ridiculously high, as his stacks were practically untouchable: be honest now, how many times did you actually end up in a situation where you didn't have enough stacks to perform after the first five minutes of a game? He snowballed like crazy, and still does, but at least now he's ever so slightly closer in terms of energy efficiency to every other 'frame.

Wanting Nidus's energy efficiency to not be effected by Nullifiers to nearly the same degree as that of other Warframes is exceptionalism, and your opinion that he was 'fine before the nerf' doesn't mean that changes can't be made to make the gameplay mechanics and experience more consistent.

I would disagree that being trapped in a room with ten Nullifiers happens frequently, but alas. Also, the vast majority of Warframes aren't sortie tier 3 Corpus Survival friendly, so what's your point?

I like how you took the five word subordinate clause that I amended to my main point, which was that I very rarely experience major issues with being surrounded by ten Nullifiers and just ran with it. It's not about the beta, it's about the fact that in all that time I've very rarely found myself in a situation where I'm within the bubbles of a large number of Nullifiers that I haven't been able to kill quickly. As such, I don't think it's a particularly major concern. However, as I said earlier, if it becomes an issue then DE can look at changing the way Nullifier bubbles stack. Even if it is an issue, you certainly can't use one specific and extreme example of the mechanics to say that the mechanic (Nidus losing stacks over time in bubbles) should be thrown out.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with all of the rambling at the end there, apologies. Your comparison doesn't make sense though, as Nidus hasn't been crippled, and this kind of stupid wailing and nashing of teeth whenever a change is made to a strong Warframe is exactly what I was making fun of in my first post in this thread that so upset you. He's fine: his overall power has barely changed in terms of his individual abilities, it's just that now he can't wade into Nullifier bubbles without consequence. Personally I dislike the fact that his gameplay consists of even more '1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1' now than it was before, but that seems to be what DE want from him.  I don't recall saying "deal with it", though, so who's erecting strawmen now?

And I do care, it's just that I think the nerfs to Nidus were justified, surprisingly restrained, and ultimately bring him into line with the vast majority of other Warframes. Things could still be improved: I'm not entirely convinced by the changes to the way maggot collect stacks, but then under the previous condition they were essentially free so I can see why DE did what they did. People complain that DE are rubbish at balance, but is that really so hard to imagine given that their primary feedback source see-saws on everything? Everything is either useless or OP to this community, and it's not doing the game any favours.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by Littlerift

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, bluepheonix13 said:

So you are saying they should give you unbalanced and broken content instead of the neat, almost bug-free (compared to PC version) packages you are getting now?

^ This. Broken is fun but still broken.   

I krie every time I think about Volt's original hitscan, million-damage shield stacks from back in the day...

[Extirpator]

Be it Warhammer or Blizzard or DE.

You all cannot deny they share the same faction. Humans, Robots and Insects.

[TheblackWindows]

the ulti changes is useless. now we use ulti for regen. WHAT A GREAT IDEA.

[ThunderZsolt]

3 hours ago, AXCrusnik said:

 it gives precedent for abilities to decay instead of get instantly destroyed by nullifiers.

never thought about it that way. good point!

@OP: you only lose about 1 stack each second, so it is not the end of the world either. I personally didn't think Nidus needed a nerf, but it is not that bad honestly

[hammerheathen]

10 hours ago, Navarchus said:

It's only 1 stack per second? So you have to stand over a minute to lose your stacks? I thought it was meant to be like 10 stacks per second to make him equal to other frames losing all their buffs all at once 100% cleansed for just looking in the direction of a nullifier.

Comparison
Nidus: 1% per second
Rhino: 100% per 0,01
Inaros: 100% per 0,01

List could go on with frost bubbles as well.

So. This is the kindest association with nullifiers bubbles I have ever seen.

[Navarc]

50 minutes ago, Eleodon said:

That give Natural Talent a job, finally...

Natural talent doesn't work on Virulence as far as I know because it speeds up the cast animation not the abilities animation and nidus can't recast until the whole length of the ability has gone out, so the only way to make it go quicker is to position yourself so it'll get stopped by a wall, platform, pillar or anything like that. 
Though I don't think Nidus needs to have this buffed.

[Wolfwaffe]

People are screaming to nerf nullifiers. DE buffs them all the time instead. And now they somehow learned to mingle with the infestation.

That's it, this is official now: I'm out of formas to continue repair my flaming aft. My rear is full of pain and my eyes cry blood. Good day, sirs.

[Sabreracer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

"I'm trying to get stacks but this one Nullifier keeps kicking my a$$"!

"Is it TheNullifier27?"

you pretty much have to stand in there like you just want a polite conversation about Corpus Economics in order to be affected by it. most people can kill a level 100 Nully in melee in less than a second, so if you're quick you won't even lose stacks (or only one or two). but hey, this was bound to happen: balance changes happen, knee-jerk reaction, salt dies down and we're back to normal.

and gives you cancer. (no seriously, it's made of some kind of radiation, it doesn't act like normal shields. can't be healthy for the Crewmen using them, not that I really care.)

So what you're saying is that by adding a large hole in his head with say.. Tigris Prime 

We're doing him a favour by not letting him die a long painful death from Radiation poisoning.

 

 

[LordOfScrugging]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Or the NIdus will steal most if not all of the kills since a low number of 30 stacks will increase the damage of Virulence enough to kill everything on regular star chart missions.

through the star chart, depending on missions, nidus is generally overkill. sitting at about 20 stacks is probably all that's needed.