The miragulor solution vote

[Chewarette]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Whats so ridiculos in it? It would let us keep the weapon and the frame in its current state and let the people who hate it finally "get rid of it forever"

Because you cannot add a filter anti Simulor or Mirage specifically, you may add a filter for everything. I want to filter out everything but stealth frames for spies, I want endurance frames for survivals, I don't like playing with Frosts because of their bubbles, I don't like playing with Embers, I don't like playing with offensive frames because they screw up my Nidus' stacks, etc etc. And in a logical point of view, DE implementing a filter for ONE frame and ONE weapon would be a terrible communication thing : "we know it's not balanced and we don't really care, just filter her out and stop bothering us please".

What would be the conclusion to this "I filter everything" trend you'd like to see implemented ? 3-hour matchmaking. Exactly what everyone want, right ?

Another solution not listed in your poll may be to add a limit to simultaneous vortex/orbs like the Penta has. Obligation to detonate them once you reach the limit or you cannot shoot anymore. To me, that seems a powerful-enough nerf for this spam without destroying completely the weapon.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Chewarette

[low1991]

13 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Hello fellow Tenno!

All seems to be weapon-specific solutions. Which IS the problem. The weapon alone is decent. Problem is frame interaction.

I prefer to have a frame solution. Like all clone (HoM) do not fire their weapons, this nerf will give the caster(player) +200% multishot bonus to their equip weapon buff. While the distance between the caster & the clone affected by power range (attracting enemy' attention), giving it more of a decoy then a purely a full weapon spam-feast.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Suggested this before:

Have the weapon heat up using a temperature meter.

Each shot fired adds 25% to the heat meter.

Cooldown requires no shooting and reduces 25% per .6 seconds so long as you do not push the gun into "overheat" mode at 125% (5 consecutive shots each less than .6 seconds apart).

In overheat mode two things happen:

1.  Every shot fired doubles ammo consumption per shot:

2, 4, 8, 16...

2.  It takes 1.6 seconds to drop out of "overheat mode".

fin

 

[(PSN)chibi_matatabi]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Suggested this before:

Have the weapon heat up using a temperature meter.

Each shot fired adds 25% to the heat meter.

Cooldown requires no shooting and reduces 25% per .6 seconds so long as you do not push the gun into "overheat" mode at 125% (5 consecutive shots each less than .6 seconds apart).

In overheat mode two things happen:

1.  Every shot fired doubles ammo consumption per shot:

2, 4, 8, 16...

2.  It takes 1.6 seconds to drop out of "overheat mode".

fin

 

you definitely have the right idea, why not have mirage use ammo in the first place

[ChuckMaverick]

You missed an option...

• Players should stop whining and trying to force their ideas of "the right playstyle" on others in public matches.

[Ragingwasabi]

Walking simulation = playstyle now? Please. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

30 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You missed an option...

• Players should stop whining and trying to force their ideas of "the right playstyle" on others in public matches.

You know this leaves you open for people to put you on BLAST about how you responded to people with this kind of "shut up and deal" response about the Hema.

Two separate aspects of the game but both out of balance.

[ChuckMaverick]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

You know this leaves you open for people to put you on BLAST about how you responded to people with this kind of "shut up and deal" response about the Hema.

Two separate aspects of the game but both out of balance.

Not at all, it's partly the implicit assumption in this poll that there is a "problem" that I take issue with, and the lack of an option to say "actually no, I don't think there is a problem".

Personally I agree that the unique synergy of Hall of Mirrors with the (Synoid) Simulor is overpowered and could stand some balancing, preferably by treating orbs from each clone separately so that they only merge with their own shots.

But all too often this issue gets tied up with "I don't like the way my squadmates are playing, stop them doing that!", as the first option in the poll (excluding frames and weapons) shows. In public missions players can bring any valid frame/weapon combo they want, if someone wants to set their own "rules" on the mission, that's what 'invite-only' matchmaking is for.

Balancing is fine if something is truly overpowered, but trying to impose your views on someone else in a public mission is not.

I'm not telling anyone to "shut up and deal", I'm simply saying that the opposing view should also be represented, and to the extent it applies stop trying to impose your views on others in situations where you have no right to do so.

Edited February 16, 2017 by ChuckMaverick
for spelling and clarity

[ashrah]

mirage is ok but symilor is most boring wepon u can use....u stand in one place and spam orbs+ u team cant pick up items what is very annoying....

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Not at all, it's partly the implicit assumption in this poll that there is a "problem" that I take issue with, and the lack of an option to say "actually no, I don't think there is a problem".

Personally I agree that the unique synergy of Hall of Mirrors with the (Synoid) Simulor is overpowered and could stand some balancing, preferably by treating orbs from each clone separately so that they only merge with their own shots.

But all too often this issue gets tied up with "I don't like the way my squadmates are playing, stop them doing that!", as the first option in the poll (excluding frames and weapons) shows. In public missions players can bring any valid frame/weapon combo they want, if someone wants to set their own "rules" on the mission, that's what 'invite-only' matchmaking is for.

Balancing is fine if something is truly overpowered, but trying to impose your views on someone else in a public mission is not.

I'm not telling anyone to "shut up and deal", I'm simply saying that the opposing view should also be represented, and to the extent it applies stop trying to impose your views on others in situations where you have no right to do so.

The Hema thread makes makes the same implicit assumption and when an opposing viewpoint is presented you have taken a different stance.

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

The Hema thread makes makes the same implicit assumption and when an opposing viewpoint is presented you have taken a different stance.

No, the Hema thread has no poll which excludes "the costs are fine" as an option, all viewpoints are represented there.

[Soketsu]

Can't be a real vote since not everyone is on the forum...

 

---

MiraSimulor is not a problem, it's just a popular efficient loadout, but not the best one. Regardless of your "fix" you will find it's pointless, many other combinaison are way more efficient.

What I suggest:

- Gear Filter (not my favorite)

or

- Special Pub Matchmaking who forbid some stuff like simulor (better but still not perfect,some stuff will be too OP for restricted gear option but too weak to be useful on the rush one)

or

- Bring back conclave rate, every god tier are matched together, trash tier are matched together (my favorite, it's an old system already use by DE in the past, won't cost so much time to re use it and won't destroy the spirit of pub matchmaking).

 

With that you won't have to "fix" anything anymore.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Soketsu

[ArchPhaeton]

16 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

-snip- our miragulor "problem".-snip-

Don't count me in that. It's only a problem for people with COD mentality mad about others "stealing" their kills, when just like @DarkFlameZealot said they don't do much most of the time.

Interesting, with the "I'm being forced for a conclave noggle" drama over, we slowly move back to miramulor. Guess people do need something to complain for.

If people keep this up one or two things will happen: Simulor will get the Gammacor treatment, and/or Mirage will get the Ash treatment: we will never see her in public matches (except for the occasional die hard fan), people will move to the next powerhouse combo, and the cycle will begin again.

 

[Doc-Orange]

I vote for "No need for a fix". I don't use this combo personally but have no problem with it. This option is not in the poll - why?

[Snowbluff]

Filter please. No use in nerfing it, it's a cooperative game.

Plus I can then ban embers. Because those are worse. Otherwise I would have voted for no use for use a fix.

 

Man you say not to spread disinformation, but your poll is shady.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Snowbluff

[low1991]

2 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You missed an option...

• Players should stop whining and trying to force their ideas of "the right playstyle" on others in public matches.

This post needs to exist when Torid is what 'used' to be called an FPS killer with it's gas cloud.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I don't stick around when a Mirage-Simulor is in the mission. I like the Synoid Simulor for some of the harder Sortie 3 Eximus Spammulator Intercept missions. It's needed. So I don't want it nerfed. But if you just shun this combo and deny Xp Affinity gain, help, and revives. They'll get the picture not to bring it along in low level missions where they are will-fully robbing everyone of kills. 

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

Mirage and similor are fine, working as intended

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I'm not so sure they'll get the message. A Mirageulor out slumming the Star Chart just as likely doesn't care whether there's anyone else in the mission anyway. Why should they? Other players are irrelevant (situation much the same with a WoF Ember - other players are irrelevant to the situation).

Basically, I think something should be done, given the issues at hand: intensely repetitive noise / visual garbage, performance drop (leading, for me on console, to almost total loss of hit detection), turning the game into Viscera Cleanup Detail, etc. I don't know what to do, and I think that Digital Extremes may be very leery of touching this one at all, even if it's a monster they created. 

(I mean, me? I'd delete the Simulor from the game, issue every owner of the gun 225 fully-usable/tradable/etc platinum, and tell 'em we screwed up bad, and they'll have to get used to how things are now. But then, I'm not running an F2P MMO-oid-thing, and that's probably a good thing.)

Edited February 16, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[Tsukinoki]

17 hours ago, Wolfsfang202 said:

another solution might be to drastically reduce the stack damage from clone orbs

This should be the only solution really, especially as it wouldn't be a nerf but a bug fix.

Here's a simple fact: when the orbs merge from Mirage's clones they do full damage instead of the reduced damage that the clones normally do.
For example, without any power strength an HoM clone should only be doing 20% of the weapons actual damage.  With the Simulor they instead deal 100% of damage.
If DE would just fix that issue the entire "problem" would go away immediately.

Don't nerf the weapon or the frame in any way.  Just fix an honest to god bug with the interaction.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[Fallen_Echo]

5 hours ago, Chewarette said:

Because you cannot add a filter anti Simulor or Mirage specifically, you may add a filter for everything. I want to filter out everything but stealth frames for spies, I want endurance frames for survivals, I don't like playing with Frosts because of their bubbles, I don't like playing with Embers, I don't like playing with offensive frames because they screw up my Nidus' stacks, etc etc. And in a logical point of view, DE implementing a filter for ONE frame and ONE weapon would be a terrible communication thing : "we know it's not balanced and we don't really care, just filter her out and stop bothering us please".

What would be the conclusion to this "I filter everything" trend you'd like to see implemented ? 3-hour matchmaking. Exactly what everyone want, right ?

Another solution not listed in your poll may be to add a limit to simultaneous vortex/orbs like the Penta has. Obligation to detonate them once you reach the limit or you cannot shoot anymore. To me, that seems a powerful-enough nerf for this spam without destroying completely the weapon.

Okay first of all, the public filter option would limit out everything you dont want to see and not just mirage and the simulor.

Second, i think we currently have more people (including me) who dont care what is in our team on a pub match.

Third, if you filtered out more than half of the playerbase becuase you dont like them, then the long wait times would be your fault.

33 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

Filter please. No use in nerfing it, it's a cooperative game.

Plus I can then ban embers. Because those are worse. Otherwise I would have voted for no use for use a fix.

 

Man you say not to spread disinformation, but your poll is shady.

its just a bunch of ideas i found here, i dont think theres any real problem with the simulor,the mirage or how they interact but i grow tired of seeing more and more absurd demand on how to "fix" the problem. I have seen someone saying that the weapons damage should by decreased by 90% and another insane solution idea where they would remove the clones ability to do any damage.

 

1 hour ago, Doc-Orange said:

I vote for "No need for a fix". I don't use this combo personally but have no problem with it. This option is not in the poll - why?

to be fair i forgot to add it in.

[ChuckMaverick]

9 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

This should be the only solution really.

Here's a simple fact: when the orbs merge from Mirage's clones they do full damage instead of the reduced damage that the clones normally do.
For example, without any power strength an HoM clone should only be doing 20% of the weapons actual damage.  With the Simulor they instead deal 100% of damage.
If DE would just fix that issue the entire "problem" would go away immediately.

I don't know how hard this would be to code, but it sounds a very reasonable suggestion for balancing the combo.

As well, the clones' orbs should only count for 0.2 (modified by power strength) of an orb towards forming a singularity.

[GmG-ITA]

1 hour ago, ArchPhaeton said:

Don't count me in that. It's only a problem for people with COD mentality mad about others "stealing" their kills, when just like @DarkFlameZealot said they don't do much most of the time.

Interesting, with the "I'm being forced for a conclave noggle" drama over, we slowly move back to miramulor. Guess people do need something to complain for.

If people keep this up one or two things will happen: Simulor will get the Gammacor treatment, and/or Mirage will get the Ash treatment: we will never see her in public matches (except for the occasional die hard fan), people will move to the next powerhouse combo, and the cycle will begin again.

 

the game is meant to be played, not to go to the extraction blinded by vortexes without doing anything ( and "strangely" the mirage users choose blinding colors for the energy)

The worst case is when you find a mirage with simulor , sonicor and telos boltace

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by GmG-ITA

[Cat__Nap]

The filter has to be one of the worst ideas I've seen in these forums. Even worse than the people who want a "vote kick" function.

There is no logical reason why someone should be locked out of every pub match just because of the frame they enjoy playing.

Do I hate Simulor Mirages just as much as the next person? Yes. I don't stay in party past the first chance to extract if there's one that uses Simulor in an obnoxious way (and yes, Simulor + Mirage can not be obnoxious, but it takes restraint from the player themselves - as in, let's not try to cover every single entrance and exit with my flashy balls kind of restraint), but not everyone on Mirage is an obnoxious turd. You implement a frame "filter," and you'll end up locking out every non-META frame from pub matches permanently, because who wouldn't filter them out?

People would also cut out Ember (because she can oneshot low levels), Limbo (because Limbo), Loki on non-rescue/spy (because people hate stealth, even though his 4 is really great CC), Zephyr, or any other frame that's not considered "useful" to the party. It wouldn't matter how good or bad the player is - they'd get cut out regardless, and this would absolutely ruin Warframe's design of being able to choose from a large assortment of frames and playstyles.

Awful idea. I can't really say as to whether or not the other ideas would work either, but the explosion-on-contact would break the weapon's intended design; the weapon itself is not overpowered. It's only this combination that is.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Cat__Nap

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

2 hours ago, Cat__Nap said:

Awful idea. I can't really say as to whether or not the other ideas would work either, but the explosion-on-contact would break the weapon's intended design; the weapon itself is not overpowered. It's only this combination that is.

If the combination is the only time it becomes a problem, then the simple fix is that Mirage can't equip the Synoid Simulor. But that's arbitrary and mean and silly, so, what about:

"Mirage clones always use Mirage's Secondary Weapon" or

"Mirage Clones bring their own Gun" (like Razorwing Titania)

 

Personally I'd gravitate to the "Mirage clones have their own unique gun" and, to forestall the "but then the enemy would know which one was the real mirage" it would always look like whatever weapon the real Mirage was using, it would just behave like Mirage Clone Gun. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack