Dear DE, Please do not make the Supra Vandal as 'bad' as the Ignis Wraith

[Cat__Nap]

Starting to get the feeling that the OP made this thread purely as arguebait and tried to disguise it as a calm discussion about Supra Vandal.

[CherryPauper]

Maybe you should just learn how to mod the Ignis Wraith because it's a pretty large improvement over the regular Ignis. Did you want it to be double damage and 50% crit?

Edited March 16, 2017 by CherryPauper

[Zendadaist]

Hoping for an accuracy bump, personally. I want to like the Supra but the terrible accuracy is just a bit -too- bad for me. Not when far more accurate bullet hoses are a thing.

 

(My Ignis Wraith is modded differently to my regular Ignis, and used in different situations. It is excellent.)

[Sloan441]

3 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

take both with same mods to excact same sortie. both do similiarly well and the buff off wraith is on similiar lvl as ignis. noticeble but not exactly ground breaking c.c

Not entirely correct. The Karak is a very good gun for a starter forge weapon. It's a 12k dps weapon.

The Karak Wraith is about 90% of a Braton Prime. It's a 20k dps weapon and status viable, which the Karak really isn't.

[TheKurtiStryke]

here we go again,when a variant weapon comes and has less damage(ignis 27-ignis wraith 25 such a loss) people start saying that the weapon is weaker and bad, what? increased crit or status? nhaaaaa, less damahe=trash(screw the oher stats,they are useless)...

seriously,this mentality is wrong.........

 

[Voltage]

Talking about datamined information is a slippery slope. This thread will probably get locked.

Anyways, I really enjoyed how the ignis wraith came out because it is showing us ahead of time that clan competition is coming back. Dark Sectors and Clans are a big focus for 2017, and this is a good start in my opinion. These types of events are healthy for some of the veterans (not all) because it imposes competition and a different kind of grind.

Ignis Wraith is fine, and something new releasing in a similar fashion is welcomed by me.

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, ChargeBeam said:

Doesn't really make sense to compare upgrades to one gun to upgrades to others, IMHO. Every gun works differently, they get different upgrades.

Ignis Wraith's upgrades make it fantastic and it's still within the bounds of other upgrade-variant weaponry.

 

2 points less base damage for more than double the crit and a tasty buff to status, not to mention better overall ammo capacities and people call the Ignis Wraith 'bad'? SMH.

 

It's basically a regular Ignis with better CRIT and Status with Vile Acceleration and Trick Mag built into it without using 2 mod slots?

Horrible...just...HORRIBLE!

Edited March 16, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Rolunde]

I'd like to see Prisma/Vandal/Wraith weapons just always are only "slightly better" than the normal versions when the normal ones aren't already solidly Top Tier.

I mean unless of course the og-weapon is pretty bad already and clearly needs an upgrade.  (Like say the Miter and the Kraken)

I don't want massive power creep but I mean otherwise what was the point?

 Now "slightly better" can mean better for crit or better for status builds but need not be better at everything, heh.

Kind of like what we see with Hek vs Vaykor Hek, or even more on point what we see with the Tigris series.

Tigris is good.

Tigris Prime and Sancti Tigris are both better while being contemporaries of each other at the same time. 

While also at the same the both of the Heks are contemporaries to them as well. 

So there is plenty of room for personal preference there. 

Sure the base Hek is a bit of an outlier by being a base model that is top tier, but it's just that, an outlier. 

And because of that, I expect if we ever see another Hek, DE will tweak the stats so that's still more of a sidegrade personal preference shotgun that is maybe only better in one aspect but not all across the board.

Cheers!
~R~

p.s./edit to add:

Ignis Wraith with Radiation is a hoot, I recommend giving it a try when you're able. In a somewhat confined space like we see with many  Defense missions, hallways, etc. it's pretty funny to see mobs get "flagged pvp" and turn on each other. 
Bonus points if it's a Hyekka Master and her Kavats, haha. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by Rolunde

[ashrah]

ignis wraith is nice saryn wepon....i wish they buff dera vandal...karak waraith is  decent i did couple times sortie with it

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

59 minutes ago, Dresden_ said:

No news, but there are data placeholders in the 19.13.1 hotfix patch.

as a supra addict ill enjoy it 

[Slaviar]

47 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said:

here we go again,when a variant weapon comes and has less damage(ignis 27-ignis wraith 25 such a loss) people start saying that the weapon is weaker and bad, what? increased crit or status? nhaaaaa, less damahe=trash(screw the oher stats,they are useless)...

seriously,this mentality is wrong.........

 

Ignis is continuous, meaning status sucks on that thing.

And crit? 12%. So much crit. Maybe it would be worth it if it had 3x multiplier. But it doesn't. You'd need something like +150% crit chance riven. But since it's faint, good luck with that.

[Zepp_]

2 hours ago, Dresden_ said:

But then they released the catastrophe that is the Ignis Wraith (que the contrarians)

 

2 hours ago, Dresden_ said:

But I know you guys know this without me having to explain it to you, so I'll let you argue inanely about it for another 3 pages.

 

1 hour ago, Dresden_ said:

Oh brother, let's be real, kids.

Why do you feel the need to be so rude to other forum posters?  You have undermined any credibility your post may have had with an exceptionally bad attitude.

[Jakorak]

2 hours ago, Xirka said:

Ignis wealth is a good weapon , I do not know what you mean calling it bad. It can easily 100% status in a good sized arc.

haaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha oh very good. it is a beam-style weapon. it uses status% per second. 100% status chance on such weapons is NOT 1 proc per instance of damage. it is 1 proc per second of continuous fire. It is hot garbage compared to real status machines

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

De be like side grades

supra vandal will have 5 less magazine, 10 more damage, same status, and 5% less crit than supra

[Jobistober]

Don't know why anyone would form an opinion on datamined info this far in advance. It's purely conjecture. So this thread is now only a tangential peeing contest based on the subjective usefulness of another weapon.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

De be like side grades

supra vandal will have 5 less magazine, 10 more damage, same status, and 5% less crit than supra

NOOOOO it needs to have more mag more damage and if less crit and stat is used to balance thats fine.  

[45neo]

2 hours ago, Dresden_ said:

Oh brother, let's be real, kids.  It's a 7% increase to crit chance, and a 5% increase to status chance.  That's barely an improvement.  The decrease to Heat damage is so negligible, I don't even consider it.  And the magazine size has never been an obstacle for this weapon to begin with.  Compare that to, say, the Dera...  "Twice the CRIT!", 33% more Crit damage, 33% bigger magazine size, 50% higher status chance, and ~50% more base damage.  THAT'S something to celebrate.  It took a lackluster weapon and made it usable.  The ignis has never been lackluster, and perhaps therein lies the problem.  Buffing it too much could make it OP, which is why we ended up with an almost pointless addition to our arsenals.  The Supra is a good weapon, and now we're possibly facing the exact same scenario.  I don't want to see another mismanaged, ill-conceived grindfest for what ultimately amounts to another pointless addition to the arsenal.

WRONG. your math here is VERY flawed. when you do the number the actual case is that ignis wraith sure has 8% less damage (deals 2 less heat damage) but it actually has a 140% increased crit rate compared to the ignis which amounts to a bonus 7% crit chance. So what about losing 8% of a weapons dps before crits is worse than buffing the crit dps by 140%, additionally there is a 20% increased status chance and a 33% increased magazine. 

After some number crunching (ignoring status) ignis deals 4239 damage over 150 instances while ignis wraith deals 4200 damage over the same 150 instances BUT with magazine to spare before having to reload. And when you account for fully modded builds the ignis wraith would likely surpass the ignis cause no one runs un-modded weapons except to level them.

Edited March 16, 2017 by 45neo

[Cyndocrit]

Wait, why do we need a supra vandal? Not that I'm against it, though.

[(XBOX)Grimsley Clause]

There is no info on the Supra Vandal, especially not after the advent of the 500 Day Rifle. I do not know where you have gotten your information, but it is not trustworthy. 

[ComCray]

4 hours ago, ChargeBeam said:

Doesn't really make sense to compare upgrades to one gun to upgrades to others, IMHO. Every gun works differently, they get different upgrades.

Ignis Wraith's upgrades make it fantastic and it's still within the bounds of other upgrade-variant weaponry.

 

2 points less base damage for more than double the crit and a tasty buff to status, not to mention better overall ammo capacities and people call the Ignis Wraith 'bad'? SMH.

 

Y'all forgetting the new sound... that absolutely makes this weapon for me.. in absolutely SOUNDS more awesome...

[(PSN)TertulSee]

The Ignis is already a good weapon that people actually use. Most of the Vandal and Wraith varients are of weapons that are either really bad in late game or they are not getting any attention. The Ignis on the other hand is a weapon that has been a fan favorite despite its damage and can scale (with a lot of Forma though).

[TheKurtiStryke]

2 hours ago, Slaviar said:

Ignis is continuous, meaning status sucks on that thing.

And crit? 12%. So much crit. Maybe it would be worth it if it had 3x multiplier. But it doesn't. You'd need something like +150% crit chance riven. But since it's faint, good luck with that.

25 from 30, It may not seem like a big change,but thrust me it is,i can reach 100% status chance and unless other weapons like isgnis,it is worth,crit chance from 5 to 12,put the standard mod for crit chance and you get around 32%.

these are little improvements for the ignis,not so drastic,but they help a lot ,and all of this at the expense of 2 damage points(i forgot increased magazine),now you can build the ignis in other ways,not only full damage.

i was lucky and i found a riven that gives me 130% chance by the way

 

[Husla]

Thought we couldn't talk about datamined information on forums..

[ComCray]

10 minutes ago, Husla said:

Thought we couldn't talk about datamined information on forums..

OMGURRIGHT~!~~~!!

#inB4lock

 

 

 sorry, couldn't resist 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to be fair, after it got it's initial buff, the Ignis went from MR fodder to top-tier before you can say "Flammenwerfer". I knew that DE wouldn't go all out with it's wraith version for fear of making a new Meta weapon (and they still haven't done jack about the last one they added, the Synoid Simulor)

now the Supra is in a similar boat: a once terrible gun that got a much needed buff ( 7 second reloads, that's just comical), and a direct upgrade, while enjoyable, could risk being the new meta as well. I think if they increased the base damage slightly, doubled the magazine and left the Crit and Status as it is, that would be enough. it has an Augment that helps it, and I've seen many people want a "true" machine gun/ Minigun added into the game. this could please heavy weapon enthusiasts and the power-creep nervous alike.

besides, I have a Supra Riven that adds over 200% Damage, if the disposition is still strong, damage won't be a problem for me.