[Pseudo E3 thread)As a veteran, I just have to say.. It's hilarious seeing DE blow other devs out of the water.

[Tesseract_The_Pariah]

Title.  Yes. 

I just want to preface this little post by saying that I've never been prouder of Digital Extremes.  Despite any flaws you may have - you are stupidly competent at your craft.  You consistently reinvent the game whenever it becomes stale. 

Warframe could have been a one-off, cash grab f2p game.  It occasionally dances close to that fire, but, manages to keep far enough away for comfort(Most days!)  Instead, DE pour their hearts and souls into every update, and go above and beyond.  The Second Dream and War Within are great examples.  You could have had a simple, Dark-Souls style story painted by lore found in items and codex descriptions. 

But you went beyond that with those quests, with mocapped animations, deeper character customization, and full voice acting combined with a cinematic story and a unique, inspired setting. 

Indeed, you could have stopped with simple missions like you had in closed beta, and added more and more uninspired, vertical progression from there.  You could have taken the safe and easy route, and Warframe would have been a competent but unremarkable f2p looter-shooter. 

Instead, you take risks.  Reinvent gameplay for the better, streamline progression, rebalance and revamp old content, and make 'financially unsound' decisions when it comes to how fairly you treat your players(most of the time.)

This game has come so, so very far.  It wasn't expected to succeed by any big publisher, or given fair treatment by the press.  But you guys managed to create a game that could very well last decades. 

That?  That was all preface.

I've digested E3 2017.  I've taken the time to look over each game, and consider two in particular that stood out.

Anthem, and Destiny 2.

Anthem could have been a competitor for Warframe.  Hell - at the time, it looked interesting.  The Javelins look interesting for sure - even now.  But..  I know those marketing tactics they used in the showcase too well.  The fake mic trick, the carefully curated and paced demo 'vertical slice' gameplay. 

Regardless of its potential 'division syndrome' I had interest in it. 

And then there's Destiny 2.  Not much to speak of, but it seems like a decent improvement on the Destiny experience, and, unlike its predecessor, it could serve as a real competitor to Warframe.  Or should I say, could have.

It all seemed like Warframe might slip into the shadows again, given the content drought.

And then you crazy northerners released the live gameplay demo for Plains of Eidolon.  It blew anything Anthem could offer out of the water.  We get new, open world gameplay with new mechanics, interesting locales and MORE voice acting and quests..  While retaining all of the old content that we had before, at no additional costs.

My interest in Anthem DISINTEGRATED.  My interest in Destiny 2, dampened. 

Because, even if PoE isn't as good as advertised, it'll still offer more and better content than either game upon release.  Sure, they might be new, but, if my fears about Anthem are correct at least, it'll fall on it's face like Division did.  And as I said, DE can make Warframe astoundingly fresh with each update.  I don't think that either really has a chance to take much of the playerbase.

Warframe has inadvertently smothered a competitor in its cradle.  Plains of Eidolon wasn't designed as a counter to either game - but it managed to kill one - at least in my mind.  That's what's astounding to me.

It just goes to show that DE is underestimated and dismissed by a lot of the medium. 

As an aside, I just want to address anyone - and particularly any friends of mine that read this post.  I'm well aware that Warframe has flaws.  I'm well aware that it needs work.  But, every game needs work.  And every game has flaws.  But Warframe is a safe bet when it comes to me - I enjoy it deeply.  The point I'm making with this post, is that Warframe crushes the competition before it even gets up in the morning, because it's already come so far, and solidified it's position in the market.  It's already got an amazing progression and core gameplay loop...

While other games have to work on THAT, and additional content.  From the ground up.

Warframe is a beast that's never content to sit on its laurels.  It is constantly improving, and improving, and improving.  And it has now inadvertently destroyed a competitor with its sheer competence.  

As an end note, I just want to address any developers that might be reading.  I thank you for the game I've enjoyed over the past few years.  I thank you for all the memories, good and bad, and all of the experiences.  It's been profound to watch Warframe grow.  Please, don't let yourselves become overconfident.  Don't rest on your laurels, and don't let this momentum you've gained slow down.  You have something amazing going on - and it's all because you've listened to your community, and added daring additions to your game that any other studio wouldn't have dreamed of. 

If you keep doing what you're doing, no other game of Warframe's feather will stand a chance.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Gaminus

[Dreadwire]

Between  anthem and destiny 2

i would like to see where anthem is heading. The demo seems promising.

That  immersive environment got me interested.

competition is good

[Hemmo67]

Warframe rules supreme, Warframe protects all

why are there FOOLS still breathing Warframe's air this is unacceptable

Join Warframe, revoke fratilities of flesh LET US IN!

[AdunSaveMe]

They blew completely different games out of the water? How do you manage that?

Or is this the thing where we pretend they're the same because of a handful of broad similarities?

[LSG501]

Honestly, I've never bothered with destiny but anthem still looks quite good to me from what I've seen but then you see it's by EA and well they keep getting a certain reward for a reason....

Been screwed over by EA myself so not sure I'd want to invest any money in more of their games if I'm honest. 

Then there's the fact it's still over a year away... there's building hype and then there's trying to reassure their share holders....

Edited July 22, 2017 by LSG501

[Corial]

Warframe has kept my interest for reason, and playing 9 months in row proves it 

Long live the Tenno 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

31 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

They blew completely different games out of the water? How do you manage that?

Or is this the thing where we pretend they're the same because of a handful of broad similarities?

I agree with the OP. If you see what Warframe was years ago and compare it to now, it's completely different, and yes, this game and DE was very underestimated by both developers and most gamers, and now it is reaching new popularity heights, being considered by many an AAA game, which still has a lot of room for further improvement. For me it is personally one of the best games of all time, and in matter of online games it's even my top game, surpassing GTA Online by a bit.

I am truly proud of DE and what they've accomplished over the years, and I tought that having a new mastery cap every year we'd reach MR30 in 6 years from now, and at that point the game would become a bit stale. But with PoE, which completely reshapes the game type (now it has an open world variant), I can only expect that in these next 6 years, which I plan to be around, they'll find a solution for the MR maximum cap, even if it means adding a MR31 and so on. 

[DrBorris]

1 hour ago, AdunSaveMe said:

They blew completely different games out of the water? How do you manage that?

Or is this the thing where we pretend they're the same because of a handful of broad similarities?

They attract similar crowds of people and have a very similar power fantasy.

 

CoD and Battlefield compete and are often compared but they are "completely different games". Both games have grown from their competition. 

 

The exact features of a game do not determine its competition, the player base does. And simply the fact that people compare the two games is proof that they attract similar audiences. 

[OniDax]

DE hasn't blown any dev out of the water. I could dissect and break down just about every point you make, but I've done that other places, and I just don't feel like doing that here. All I'll say is this: despite my excitement, as a veteran, that Warframe is finally moving toward open world, there is absolutely nothing, and I truly mean nothing, about Plains of Eidolon that suggests that it will offer more content and a better open world experience than Destiny 2 or Anthem. The Division has a particular problem, and that is that it did not fully embrace its open world setting. It instead decided to be a looter, and looters are very limited gameplay wise (just look at Warframe: many features, but shallow gameplay mechanics; I'm hoping PoE introduces some more engaging, immersive gameplay mechanics). Anthem just might end up the same way. But if Plains of Eidolon doesn't change from how it's been presented so far, then it'll end up the same way as well. Right now I see no difference in terms of what Plains of Eidolon is said to offer versus what games like The Division offered. Plains of Eidolon right now is looking to be just as shallow of an open world experience, simply because of just how limited its gameplay options seem to be (and I say that because of what it's lacking, and what DE hasn't talked about adding to it). I don't see how anyone can say that what DE has shown off blows any open world game out of the water.

"You have something amazing going on - and it's all because you've listened to your community, and added daring additions to your game that any other studio wouldn't have dreamed of."

I'm simply going to assume that you haven't played many open world games, or any other games for that matter, if you think anything DE's done is something that some other studio hasn't already done.

Also, I really wish Plains of Eidolon was a result of DE listening to the community, particularly those who've asked for open world for years now, but DE did not cite community wishes as their reasoning for going open world.

Edited July 22, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[TheVeiledScion]

Anthem and Destiny will probably make far more money than Warframe ever will...

2 hours ago, Gaminus said:

quests, with mocapped animations, deeper character customization, and full voice acting combined with a cinematic story and a unique, inspired setting.

Anthem alone will have better animations and voice acting than Warframe.  And plenty of other games have much better cinematic stories and more unique settings than Warframe's forests, deserts, mountains and caves.

[ShadowStalker]

lol i really dont get why people compare anthem and destiny to warframe yes DE did a really good job with the reveals and what not at tennocon but they really blew no devs out of anything all 3 games have thier own thing special about them

its like saying Anthems Graphics and Design team blew warframe out of the water

Edited July 22, 2017 by ShadowStalker

[OniDax]

16 minutes ago, ShadowStalker said:

lol i really dont get why people compare anthem and destiny to warframe yes DE did a really good job with the reveals and what not at tennocon but they really blew no devs out of anything all 3 games have thier own thing special about them

its like saying Anthems Graphics and Design team blew warframe out of the water

Well, yes, Anthem's graphics blow Warframe's out of the water. There's no question about that...

[Kaotyke]

22 minutes ago, ShadowStalker said:

lol i really dont get why people compare anthem and destiny to warframe yes DE did a really good job with the reveals and what not at tennocon but they really blew no devs out of anything all 3 games have thier own thing special about them

its like saying Anthems Graphics and Design team blew warframe out of the water

As said above:

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

The exact features of a game do not determine its competition, the player base does. And simply the fact that people compare the two games is proof that they attract similar audiences. 

CoD and Battlefield are both FPS, military centred games, and the similarities end there. BF is centred on tactics, large scale battles with vehicles while CoD is fast paced CQC combat. ^{_{*hurg,combat combat...}}

But the players like to compare, and the Devs of both games know that. Competition makes them try to reach higher, to top the other while remaining unique to their playstyles.

This is no different here. The players are the ones making the comparisons, the Devs look at that and might drawn inspirations based on those talks and try to make their product better, comparison IS a form of critscism.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Kaotyke

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, DrBorris said:

They attract similar crowds of people and have a very similar power fantasy.

 

CoD and Battlefield compete and are often compared but they are "completely different games". Both games have grown from their competition. 

 

The exact features of a game do not determine its competition, the player base does. And simply the fact that people compare the two games is proof that they attract similar audiences. 

Um, no. The Warframe player base comparing Warframe to Destiny, Anthem, or any AAA game for that matter does not indicate that the games attract similar audiences. It just shows that Warframe players continually try to make Warframe look better by association, by continually comparing it to AAA games even though Warframe is in no way on the level of AAA games.

[Daneel_N]

As an older player who is on call a lot and has a fairly active outside life I am selective about what games I devote my time to. Anthem and Destiny don't look unique to me and don't look that interesting. The mech side of me likes Anthem but...  The Warframe universe is far more interesting and surprising to me. The Warframes, music, environments artwork and story are just very interesting to me. The fanart and Tennogen are great ideas. I always got the impression that DE was an underdog that's kind of changing the business meta which IMHO was going down the tubes. Can't wait to see what comes out of DE in the coming years.

[-InV-igo95862]

Maybe you should wait until all those games come out before judging which one is better?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Warframe's brand sets it apart and it's like the Sentients...it just keeps adapting and growing and improving to compete-survive-dominate within it's niche.

Adapt or be irrelevant.

Don't for one second doubt that PoE wasn't strategic.  It's just made all the more powerful by developers/creators/community who have a genuine love and appreciation for the authenticity of the Tennoverse.

Edited July 22, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[OniDax]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Warframe's brand sets it apart and it's like the Sentients...it just keeps adapting and growing and improving to compete-survive-dominate within it's niche.

Adapt or be irrelevant.

Don't for one second doubt that PoE wasn't strategic.  It's just made all the more powerful by developers/creators/community who have a genuine love and appreciation for the authenticity of the Tennoverse.

Sure, Warframe going open world after most leading AAA developers go open world is strategic. It's reactionary strategy. I'm glad it's going open world. It's just a shame that it took everyone around them going open world for DE to go open world. If they'd been open to the idea of open world back when players were asking for it, they wouldn't have been in a position where they had to react to and follow the industry to stay relevant.

Regardless, now that they've made the first step toward open world, I hope they'll fully invest in it and fully embrace it. Because everything we've seen and heard about what Plains of Eidolon will offer just seems lacking. I think it's worth delaying it to ensure that it is as immersive, engaging, interactive, deep, and satisfying as possible.

Also, I'm not at all sure what you mean when you say "authenticity of the Tennoverse".

[Chipputer]

E3 isn't for the consumers. It's for companies. Everything about it is safe and heavily targeted. I'm not saying that DE didn't blow my expectations out of the water, or anything, but of course they were going to put on a better show than anything at E3-- they were revealing something directly to their core audience with the intent to impress their core audience and only their core audience.

It's after TennoCon that they need to start marketing it outward to others and then they'll basically look exactly the way the people at E3 look. Boring. Safe. Innovating for innovating's sake.

You have knowledge of what Warframe was. Joe Schmoe, over there, doesn't. To him this is going to look like another game going open world because every game is going open world. To you this is looking like the next evolution of Warframe and something the players have wanted for a long time.

[DatDarkOne]

8 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Honestly, I've never bothered with destiny but anthem still looks quite good to me from what I've seen but then you see it's by EA and well they keep getting a certain reward for a reason....

Been screwed over by EA myself so not sure I'd want to invest any money in more of their games if I'm honest. 

Then there's the fact it's still over a year away... there's building hype and then there's trying to reassure their share holders....

^This quote is me on so many levels that it's like you read my mind.  

6 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

I'm simply going to assume that you haven't played many open world games, or any other games for that matter, if you think anything DE's done is something that some other studio hasn't already done.

I'm not disagreeing with your whole post at all.  I only quoted this part because it sparked some thoughts. 

I have played quite a few open world games, MMO, and Single player versions.  I have to give credit to DE (especially given their small size) for their accomplishments in comparison to other Devs.  Then add in that Warframe is free and all other possible competitors have a upfront cost of at least $60, really does make what they have done very good.  I'm not saying that other Devs/studios haven't done things before DE.  

In this time of Micro-transactions, broken-on-release, and removing content, it's just nice to see a game like Warframe that's completely free to play while being on par with games that have an upfront cost.  The cost factor is real and can't really be ignored. 

There is nothing at all wrong with having an opinion.  I try to respect everyone's while expressing mine.  :D  

 

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, DatDarkOne said:

^This quote is me on so many levels that it's like you read my mind.  

I'm not disagreeing with your whole post at all.  I only quoted this part because it sparked some thoughts. 

I have played quite a few open world games, MMO, and Single player versions.  I have to give credit to DE (especially given their small size) for their accomplishments in comparison to other Devs.  Then add in that Warframe is free and all other possible competitors have a upfront cost of at least $60, really does make what they have done very good.  I'm not saying that other Devs/studios haven't done things before DE.  

In this time of Micro-transactions, broken-on-release, and removing content, it's just nice to see a game like Warframe that's completely free to play while being on par with games that have an upfront cost.  The cost factor is real and can't really be ignored. 

There is nothing at all wrong with having an opinion.  I try to respect everyone's while expressing mine.  :D  

 

Well, we disagree on that front. I think Warframe has a good way to go before it's on par with any AAA title.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Well, we disagree on that front. I think Warframe has a good way to go before it's on par with any AAA title.

That's cool.  But is that really a fair comparison when you consider everything.  How many games that you have paid for have actually caused you to stop playing Warframe or play it less?  I  myself love Nier:Automata but find myself playing Warframe more.  If you have done similar, then Warframe must be doing something right.  :D 

Just giving something for some to think about.  Again nothing personal.  I just like to have a good discussion sometimes.  :D  

[BetaNoire]

11 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said:

Um, no. The Warframe player base comparing Warframe to Destiny, Anthem, or any AAA game for that matter does not indicate that the games attract similar audiences. It just shows that Warframe players continually try to make Warframe look better by association, by continually comparing it to AAA games even though Warframe is in no way on the level of AAA games.

Just looking at the trailers, and some videos for the first time. I can see why people made the comparison. 

[Judgebanks]

I don't know, generally when a new big update comes out it'll last me about an hour of actual gameplay, unless it's glast gambit which was way longer than it needed to be.

 

Personally I've found that per big update there is less actual game to play than most triple A developers, simply because you're not allowed to fail in Warframe.

 

A part of me wants to be hopeful and believe that there's going to be a good 50 hours of gameplay in this update, but there won't be, because they've never even come close in the past. What I can expect is some new garbage currency/resource that can only be obtained through time-gated repeatable missions, because statistically that's par for the course.

[BetaNoire]

7 hours ago, Chipputer said:

E3 isn't for the consumers. It's for companies. Everything about it is safe and heavily targeted. I'm not saying that DE didn't blow my expectations out of the water, or anything, but of course they were going to put on a better show than anything at E3-- they were revealing something directly to their core audience with the intent to impress their core audience and only their core audience.

It's after TennoCon that they need to start marketing it outward to others and then they'll basically look exactly the way the people at E3 look. Boring. Safe. Innovating for innovating's sake.

You have knowledge of what Warframe was. Joe Schmoe, over there, doesn't. To him this is going to look like another game going open world because every game is going open world. To you this is looking like the next evolution of Warframe and something the players have wanted for a long time.

I think you'd be correct, in that Tennocon, Like Blizzcon, and other company focused events is really meant to speak directly to it's customer base. E3's been around for over 20 years, but it has diminished in importance and has actually gotten smaller. If Warframe wanted to market itself to potential new players, and try to grow it through a convention, I don't  think they would do it through E3.

Quote

Who, or what, is E3 actually meant to be for? It's not for consumers, of course - they're not allowed in, in theory, though the ESA has come up with various pointlessly convoluted ways of letting a handful of them in anyway. It's for business, yet big players in the industry seem deeply dissatisfied with it. It's not just EA and Activision, either; even the companies who are actually exhibiting on the show floor seem to have taken to viewing it as an addendum to the actually important part of the week, namely their live-broadcast press conferences. Once the realm only of platform holders, now every major publisher has their own - and if EA and Activision's decision to go their own way entirely, leaving the E3 show floor, has no major negative consequences for them this year, you can be damned sure others will question the show's cost-value next year. A big part of the reason for that is simply that E3 has an identity crisis. It wants to be a global show in the age of the local, in an age where "global" is accomplished by pointing a camera at a stage, not by flying people from around the world to sit in the audience. It wants to be a spectacle, and a place to do business, and ends up being dissatisfying at both; it wants to excite and intrigue consumers, but it doesn't want to let them in. The half-measures attempted over the years to square these circles have done nothing to convince anyone that E3 knows how to stay relevant; slackening ties to allow more consumers into the show simply annoys people who are there for work, and annoys the huge audience of consumers who remain excluded.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-06-03-e3-struggles-to-find-its-purpose

 

All that aside Warframe has to decide what its potential expanded audience is, and what games they see themselves as competing against. If Warframe were say, trying to be League of Legends who is their DOTA2? Or at least, who does the public see as its competitor titles? 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by BetaNoire