Login Rewards kind of unattainable for new players

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

I understand you're providing perspective.  Please understand, I'm not picking a fight, I'm enjoying these topics.

However, I don't see the similarities between line jumping and a token system.  I think an arcade would be a better simile.  You play as you choose, are rewarded with tickets (tokens) depending on your dedication, and then you take those up and pick the "prize" you want.  Everyone is still waiting their turn, they just have different amounts of tickets.

I can see merits in this idea.  :D

[PakkiTheDog]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Truthfully, the same backlash that would happen if someone skipped everyone in shopping line or some other standing line in real life.  It's a very similar situation to that.  I wouldn't recommend you trying this one out if you haven't seen what happens previously.  Just giving some perspective fellow Tenno.  :D 

This is not the right comparison. By giving others the option to obtain the items you don't get punished. 

A better comparison would be: You get a cupcake and there is another one you can't eat but you could give away. But you don't because you don't see the other person as "deserving" as you. Even though you did almost nothing to deserve it in the first place.

Just now, Knight_Ex said:

Well no ones sticking a gun to your head to play the game, if you hate it so much then why torture yourself further? Just leave and be done with this game and its unreasonably anti-newbie horrible login reward system,

It is quite on the contrary. I do not hate this game, i love it (like stated multiple times already). And this is why when there is something wrong in it i wish to correct it.

[PakkiTheDog]

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Wrong.  I didn't say that at all.  What I did say is the following quote:

I have not received or seen a good answer to that question.  You just misread my earlier statement. 

You are basically saying you are ignoring 2 topics i listed, as you saw them "not good enough" reasons. That is not how discussions work.

The points being:

1. Denying someone an item for no real reason or any profit whatsoever.... 

2....my experience and yours is not the same, your waiting for 50 days is not equal to my waiting of 200+ days.

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

46 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

In that case, then I want every special promotion the consoles have had ever.  I want to have the totally PS4 exclusive Ivara skin to be given to me on my PC. If you guys can have it, then so should I. 

When I get all that, then you can have whatever login reward you want at whatever time you want it at.  See just how idiotic that sounded when you consider the full context of things. 

I have no problem with you getting all the PS4 exclusives. Because you know what, they are all cosmetics. Not a single thing tied to mastery or power. And you getting them does nothing go dimminish my experience  

See the difference. 

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

You just trade in old complaints for new ones. You don't think there will be the SAME topper if entitled players complaining about how long it takes get 100 tokens? 

Also, that defeats the purpose of DE encouraging continuous logins. DE wants people to keep logging in... And I think it's successful. 

Anyone that cares that much about login rewards will probably play enough to eventually get them anyway.... And if they don't care to play enough, then they should've even care to get weapon.

Complaining is human nature though.  People complained about free "sorry this ruined your weekend" stuff from DE during the first instance of does attacks, and many complained that what they got wasn't enough compensation. 

But not even considering a potentionally better option, just because people will complain?  That's asinine.

And the current login system isn't forgiving to people that have real life interfering with their leisure time.  I've been around since the new system was implemented but only recently hit 300 days.

It wasn't because I didn't want the items, it was due to things begin my control.  I can't make a fried motherboard turn on long enough to get a login reward anymore than I could force an internet connection in the middle of the woods.

With the token system, I would have the option of getting the items I actually want and would use, while still gaining more daily tokens.  

And for a lot of players, tokens would be an incentive to log in.  

Take the arcade analogy. Are you going to be more interested in going in if you get a free token every day, or are you going to be more interested in going in, putting a scratch on the wall and walking out again?

With tokens, it gives the player something more tangible than "yay day 53!  47 more to go!"

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I can see merits in this idea.  :D

It has its flaws, but it was one of the best suggested from one of the other threads in general feedback.

[(PSN)TriggaMan3100]

Nope forget that, we waited 300 days so you should have to do the same thing. That's why it's called a reward. I would personally be highly upset if they began to cater to New Player cry babies whining about having to actually do something that every single player before them that has said item that they are whining about also had to do. People are so entitled nowadays it's ridiculous.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (PS4)TriggaMan3100 said:

Nope forget that, we waited 300 days so you should have to do the same thing. That's why it's called a reward. I would personally be highly upset if they began to cater to New Player cry babies whining about having to actually do something that every single player before them that has said item that they are whining about also had to do. People are so entitled nowadays it's ridiculous.

You're right.

I had to deal with 4 revives per day when I started, so everyone else should to.

I mean, it's only fair to make the new players go through that because I did.

Oh, and we should take away all Warframe augments and exiles mods.  The 4 ability mod system was soooo much better.

Hek, why don't we go back to the old skill tree while we're at it?  DE sure got it right the first time they did it.

Come on.

[(PSN)TriggaMan3100]

@MagPrime oh remind me again... which of those were apart of a REWARD SYSTEM? Sounds like basic gameplay to me lol... Big Difference... hey why don't we just start giving 15 year olds the ability to get into nightclubs... I mean why should they have to wait to have fun right?

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)TriggaMan3100 said:

@MagPrime oh remind me again... which of those were apart of a REWARD SYSTEM? Sounds like basic gameplay to me lol... Big Difference... hey why don't we just start giving 15 year olds the ability to get into nightclubs... I mean why should they have to wait to have fun right?

Yeah, no, the idea that just because you had to do it means that everyone else has to as well is just asinine.

If the system can be improved, it should be.  

Also, depending on where you are, and the club, 15 year olds can get into nightclubs

[-Trey-]

This should be treated like Excalibur Prime threads and locked on sight. There will always be entitled players who attempt to skip hard work someone else already put in.

[(PSN)theelix]

On 7/24/2017 at 9:04 PM, Tesseract7777 said:

Why would a new player need Primed Shred? 

It's totally optional/not necessary like everything in login rewards. 

And even if it were more "pseudo-mandatory" for end game, why would a new player need end game stuff? 

It takes a long time and a lot of work to get to the level most of us veterans are at. I have watched a friend who never played that much in the past trying to play more recently to get ready for Plains of Eidolon, and the amount of regular r10 mods he still needs to rank up, that aren't prime at all, is a lot. 

He won't even have the endo to worry about primed mods besides continuity for quite some time, and only after a lot of work. 

I just really don't see a problem here. 

I do think there should be an end to it though. Primed Shred is roughly two years I think, or close to it. I think it's about time we stop adding more login rewards that are non cosmetic, one time rewards. 

Edit: I don't even have Primed Vigor yet and I can faceroll anything I want to... I don't need it. Thousands of players facerolled high level content before Primed Shred was ever added to the game. In fact correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't think anyone had it yet, so why would new players need it to win missions? 

I mean, true but... Two YEARS. 

Zenistar might as well be a mandatory melee with really cool mechanics that has so many utility options and it takes a YEAR to unlock? Sure, there's no end in sight but that's not cool. 

Prime Fury is a game changer. A massive game changer. 

In thirty days you can become a "veteran" if you're a real hardcore player. In two months for more casual players. Endo is laughably easy to obtain especially considering Sorties and Maroo's Ayatan Hunt, but mainly Arena makes it a joke to farm. 

Certainly everyone can faceroll content in this game, at this point it's a joke. But it's content that's forcing you to put in enough commitment to make a literal job out of it, a chore in which you log in everyday, and every day you don't you fall behind. 

 

[DatDarkOne]

42 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

The points being:

1. Denying someone an item for no real reason or any profit whatsoever.... 

Nothing is being denied.  You and everyone has the same opportunity to get those items.  

43 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

2....my experience and yours is not the same, your waiting for 50 days is not equal to my waiting of 200+ days.

But I myself had to wait the 200+ days at one point.  Is that any different than you waiting 200+ days?  No

I wasn't ignoring them at all.  Those lines just didn't/don't answer this question "What makes you or anyone else so special that you or they deserve special treatment to receive those items outside of the ways that everyone else has to them?"  

Not to say that I should have anything and you can't.  It's just how is it fair to those that have already waited their time to have those very items/things given to those who only waited a shorter time.  This is the one thing that each and everyone for the change has failed to answer.  I will give MagPrime credit as she at least has acknowledged this and offering suggestions that take this in mind.  

So as I see it, this topic is at the following point.  Those who would like earlier access to login items and those who would feel slighted if said items were offered earlier.  I would be really happy that others got or could get the items earlier, but I also don't want to feel like all my efforts were dumped on in the process.  In that regard only MagPrime has even presented a compromise for both groups.  

[(PSN)TriggaMan3100]

But I mean that's what a reward is right? Something u have to work to earn, I mean it should be a plus that said reward is actually worth the wait right? This is also coming from someone that just recently received the Zeni about 3 weeks ago which means I went through the same daily log in grind that was required of everyone but without asking for a shortcut.

[MagPrime]

21 minutes ago, -Trey- said:

This should be treated like Excalibur Prime threads and locked on sight. There will always be entitled players who attempt to skip hard work someone else already put in.

How is logging in hard work?  It takes less than 5 minutes, with a good connection.

I mean, I guess you run the risk of a finger sprain from typing too fast, but still, not really hard work.

[(PSN)theelix]

 

1 hour ago, PakkiTheDog said:

This is not the right comparison. 

A better comparison would be:

You arrive late to a party for your new friend; you weren't told until he text you late into the party after realizing he never actually sent your invitation. The party started four hours ago, but they just gave out the cupcakes. Everyone's enjoying those cupcakes, a few of them just got theirs and are telling you about how good it is. A few more recent ones rub it (metaphorically) in your face and loudly mock the fact that you don't have one. Those same people tell you

50 minutes ago, (PS4)TriggaMan3100 said:

Nope forget that, we waited 300 days so you should have to do the same thing.

"hey, we got to this party when it started, it's only fair that you sit there and wait for four hours like the rest of us did." 

Not even half that time later they're on to the next party, and that one has pizza. And you're still at the party prior waiting for your cupcake. 

I'd drop that friend like new players would drop this game. 

Edit: Oh, and every time you have to get up and go do something like use the bathroom, that timer is paused and you still have to wait four hours + whatever time you weren't there waiting

Edited August 11, 2017 by (PS4)theelix

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)TriggaMan3100 said:

But I mean that's what a reward is right? Something u have to work to earn, I mean it should be a plus that said reward is actually worth the wait right? This is also coming from someone that just recently received the Zeni about 3 weeks ago which means I went through the same daily log in grind that was required of everyone but without asking for a shortcut.

The reward being worth the wait is subjective.  I have 2 of the 3 weapons and barely use one of them, they just aren't worthwhile for me.

And again, how is logging in "work"? You out more effort into running an alert than simply logging in.  It's a by product of you playing the game, no actual effort required.

[-Trey-]

15 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

How is logging in hard work?  It takes less than 5 minutes, with a good connection.

I mean, I guess you run the risk of a finger sprain from typing too fast, but still, not really hard work.

If it's that easy, obtaining Zenith and Primed Shred both of which you are missing, shouldn't be that hard then.

[PakkiTheDog]

35 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Nothing is being denied.  You and everyone has the same opportunity to get those items.  

But I myself had to wait the 200+ days at one point.  Is that any different than you waiting 200+ days?  No

I wasn't ignoring them at all.  Those lines just didn't/don't answer this question "What makes you or anyone else so special that you or they deserve special treatment to receive those items outside of the ways that everyone else has to them?"  

Those lines answer the question, you just don't get what i was trying to say. You currently log in every day not knowing what the next milestone will be (the 700th) therefore you are not hyped or expecting anything special. When you and other early birds get to the 650th login than you'll have to wait an abysmal time of 50 days to get a reward. But when you are at that point of needing to wait only 50 days for said weapon someone else will need to wait 200 days/a year or more to obtain the same weapon. This is what i am trying to say. Your wait time and mine for the same weapon is not equal. 

That same comparison could be compared to a frame/quest exclusive. You started playing the game 2 years before me, there is a new quest/frame out and i can't access it for another 2 years while you get it immediately. This is not fair and not equal.

 

35 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Not to say that I should have anything and you can't.  It's just how is it fair to those that have already waited their time to have those very items/things given to those who only waited a shorter time.  This is the one thing that each and everyone for the change has failed to answer.  I will give MagPrime credit as she at least has acknowledged this and offering suggestions that take this in mind.  

So as I see it, this topic is at the following point.  Those who would like earlier access to login items and those who would feel slighted if said items were offered earlier.  I would be really happy that others got or could get the items earlier, but I also don't want to feel like all my efforts were dumped on in the process.  

I'll try to do another explanation here. When you started to play the game and got the first login reward you waited 0 days for primed shred as it didn't exist/wasn't announced. At 400 login reward you waited 0 days for primed shred as it didn't exist/wasn't announced. At 550 days you learned of primed shred and therefore waited for said item only 50 days. While another player at the same time on his 200 login reward will need to wait 400 days to obtain the same reward. To reach his goal he'll need to wait longer than you did.

 

What MagPrime said would be a nice way of fixing this problem. Being able to get the desired items.

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by PakkiTheDog

[Hypernaut1]

59 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

 

Complaining is human nature though.  People complained about free "sorry this ruined your weekend" stuff from DE during the first instance of does attacks, and many complained that what they got wasn't enough compensation. 

But not even considering a potentionally better option, just because people will complain?  That's asinine.

And the current login system isn't forgiving to people that have real life interfering with their leisure time.  I've been around since the new system was implemented but only recently hit 300 days.

It wasn't because I didn't want the items, it was due to things begin my control.  I can't make a fried motherboard turn on long enough to get a login reward anymore than I could force an internet connection in the middle of the woods.

With the token system, I would have the option of getting the items I actually want and would use, while still gaining more daily tokens.  

And for a lot of players, tokens would be an incentive to log in.  

Take the arcade analogy. Are you going to be more interested in going in if you get a free token every day, or are you going to be more interested in going in, putting a scratch on the wall and walking out again?

With tokens, it gives the player something more tangible than "yay day 53!  47 more to go!"

It has its flaws, but it was one of the best suggested from one of the other threads in general feedback.

The current system is fine for what it is. Changing it to a token system is NOT necessarily better, so changing it just to change it is asinine. People will still have the same complaints..that it takes time to earn the items. You supposed "better" solution is assuming that everyone just wants to beeline it to a zenistar or something and then they'll be satisfied.

I dont get why people see the basic concept of a log-in reward and then want to subvert it. The point is to get you to log in consistently. Not log in for 100 days, get what you want and then stop caring about the system

[PakkiTheDog]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

 

You arrive late to a party for your new friend; you weren't told until he text you late into the party after realizing he never actually sent your invitation. The party started four hours ago, but they just gave out the cupcakes. Everyone's enjoying those cupcakes, a few of them just got theirs and are telling you about how good it is. A few more recent ones rub it (metaphorically) in your face and loudly mock the fact that you don't have one. Those same people tell you

"hey, we got to this party when it started, it's only fair that you sit there and wait for four hours like the rest of us did." 

Not even half that time later they're on to the next party, and that one has pizza. And you're still at the party prior waiting for your cupcake. 

I'd drop that friend like new players would drop this game. 

Edit: Oh, and every time you have to get up and go do something like use the bathroom, that timer is paused and you still have to wait four hours + whatever time you weren't there waiting

You made the best metaphors possible to describe the situation, bravo 

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, -Trey- said:

If it's that easy, obtaining Zenith and Primed Shred both of which you are missing, shouldn't be that hard then.

Cute.

I don't have those items simply because my computers mother board is fried and I have to save to get a new one, and shortly after the system started, I choose to work and be able to live indoors over logging into the game.

Still doesn't answer how logging in is "hard work"

Just now, Hypernaut1 said:

The current system is fine for what it is. Changing it to a token system is NOT necessarily better, so changing it just to change it is asinine. People will still have the same complaints..that it takes time to earn the items. You supposed "better" solution is assuming that everyone just wants to beeline it to a zenistar or something and then they'll be satisfied.

I dont get why people see the basic concept of a log-in reward and then want to subvert it. The point is to get you to log in consistently. Not log in for 100 days, get what you want and then stop caring about the system

The point of a log in reward is to encourage you to login and play the game, not login and the out again, to simply meet your mark on the wall.

This reward system doesn't reward playing the game, at all. So it isn't fine as it is.  

[Hypernaut1]

Just now, MagPrime said:

 

Cute.

I don't have those items simply because my computers mother board is fried and I have to save to get a new one, and shortly after the system started, I choose to work and be able to live indoors over logging into the game.

Still doesn't answer how logging in is "hard work"

The point of a log in reward is to encourage you to login and play the game, not login and the out again, to simply meet your mark on the wall.

This reward system doesn't reward playing the game, at all. So it isn't fine as it is.  

Personally, Logging in to make progress does sometimes end up in me playing longer than intended. Im sure thats the point. It keeps you thinking about the game. The reward for playing the game is the game itself.

I think DE should be allowed to give rewards to people logging in everyday. I think the rewards are the right level of niche that new players dont really miss out, although zenistar is awesome and crosses into the must have category.

A token system assumes DE wants all the rewards to be 100 day rewards. What if they have a tier of 200 day rewards? Then it takes 200 days each to get them? Should all the best rewards be acquirable in 100 days? 200? 300? Should players be able to test out items so they dont "waste 100 days worth of tokens? Tokens seem like creating a bunch of problems to something that already has a simple straightforward solution...logging in.

T

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

Your wait time and mine for the same weapon is not equal. 

Here is the major problem I have with your argument.  If I have waited 200 days, and you have 200 days to wait: how is 200 days not equal to 200 days? They both just have different starting points in time.  Let's say we both are in a 10 mile race.  I started 30 minutes before you did.  Would it be fair for you to began your part where I am instead of at the starting point. We would both get the exact same prize, but one of would have expended more effort/time than the other.  Where is the reward for effort/time value if you get the same reward and only did half the effort/time as the another.  It is a "reward" that this topic is about.     

Edited August 11, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[(PSN)CaseFace8]

5 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

The current system is fine for what it is. Changing it to a token system is NOT necessarily better, so changing it just to change it is asinine. People will still have the same complaints..that it takes time to earn the items. You supposed "better" solution is assuming that everyone just wants to beeline it to a zenistar or something and then they'll be satisfied.

I dont get why people see the basic concept of a log-in reward and then want to subvert it. The point is to get you to log in consistently. Not log in for 100 days, get what you want and then stop caring about the system

There are plenty of games that reward you for logging in every X number of days. Point me to another game that rewards players on a seemingly infinite log in reward system. 

I'd venture to guess there are ZERO. Because they don't want to discourage anyone finding their game later.  There are other ways to reward loyal players without locking things with actual power behind an absurd time gate. 

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Personally, Logging in to make progress does sometimes end up in me playing longer than intended. Im sure thats the point. It keeps you thinking about the game. The reward for playing the game is the game itself.

I think DE should be allowed to give rewards to people logging in everyday. I think the rewards are the right level of niche that new players dont really miss out, although zenistar is awesome and crosses into the must have category.

A token system assumes DE wants all the rewards to be 100 day rewards. What if they have a tier of 200 day rewards? Then it takes 200 days each to get them? Should all the best rewards be acquirable in 100 days? 200? 300? Should players be able to test out items so they dont "waste 100 days worth of tokens? Tokens seem like creating a bunch of problems to something that already has a simple straightforward solution...logging in.

T

I may have explained my initial suggestion poorly.

The idea behind tokens isn't getting a 100 day login reward easily, but giving the players a more tangible reward, as well as expanding the login reward pool.

Right now we have 3 weapons, 3 mods and err, 3 sigil/potato packs right?

With the token system, it could easily expand to included more cosmetics, boosters, potatoes, Forma, etc. And allow players to squander their tokens on the cheap stuff, or, login consistently and save up for the big ones, like the Zenith, Zenistar and Azima. 

The Token system would reward people that can't play often because they could slowly work towards their goal, but still faster than a set "login before 5pm PST everyday for two years and you can have the thing." and it would still reward dedicated players who log in everyday.  They would gain tokens faster, they would still be "ahead" of everyone else.

@Hypernaut1

Phone is freaking out, please give me a moment to get to my computer and I will finish this.  Thanks!  A/C broke at the office and the phone was over heating.

Edited August 12, 2017 by MagPrime