Login Rewards kind of unattainable for new players

[Chipputer]

15 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

yeah and that's why that system need to be changed

Because everyone is an equal in the eyes of the implemented system?

No, my friend, that's why it doesn't need to change. I'm fine with removing mods and removing weapons from here, onward, and I'm even fine with people thinking weapons and mods were a mistake. What I'm not okay with is changing the current, completely 100% fair and equal for everyone involved, system because a few people want their shiny new toy and they want it now.

[FAZZWARFRAME]

2 hours ago, ComCray said:

Been skimming a bit throughout the discussion (which I didn't expect to go on as long as it did) but I can't actually find a compelling reason why the system should be changed. I'm sure these reasons must be in here somewhere, because I refuse to believe this has been going on for the few vapid attempts at an argument I've seen. 

SO, can is there anyone willing to consolidate these arguments in a single post? I'm not looking for a wall of text, just some bullit points will do. 

Why? Because I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole concept. Apparently this is a thing for some people and for the life of me, I can't figure out why it would be - apart from the obvious negative "because new players are entitled S#&$s", which I don't believe in.

Summary:

A group of self proclaimed experienced warframe players wanted to argue on behalf of the newer players that daily login reward system is bad for their morale because the time gap required to get everything has grow to become so huge that it will scare people away instead of incentivizing them to keep playing.  The other group of experienced players whom have been keeping up with the login reward wanted to re-enforce and self validate their effort spent by keeping the system as-is.

While all these are going on the actual new players are just enjoying the game not a care in the world.  This thread is nothing more than mid/long term players arguing over nothing to feel good about themselves while using the new players as an excuse.

[Chipputer]

12 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said:

While all these are going on the actual new players are just enjoying the game not a care in the world.

Don't misrepresent the situation. Just a week or two ago there was a topic made by a guy who wanted the Zenistar but didn't want to wait for it.
Before that there were multiple people barely at 100 log in days complaining about how much they wanted Primed Shred.
A few posts up there's a guy complaining about having to start from day 1 despite being a veteran after having been gone for a long time.
In the first few pages there's another older vet feeling frustrated that they had to start from day 1 because, "muh previously played time."
I don't feel like skimming this topic, specifically, for more.

I'm glad you found a way to belittle both sides of the argument but the only one looking silly here is the person who isn't fully informed on the situation-- you. This isn't something that popped up with this topic. It's been going on since a few days to a week before the first person had Primed Shred in their hands and, to a lesser extent, even before that.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Chipputer
removed a redundant word

[-Trey-]

3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

It's been going on since a few days to a week before the first person had Primed Shred in their hands and, to a lesser extent, even before that.

It's been going on since the caveman days.

When 1 caveman spend weeks constructing his spear and shelter, finally perfecting both of them. Then another caveman wanted same exact spear and shelter, but without all the time investement needed to get it.

[Troll_Logic]

5 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

anyways  if  this reward system wouldn't be a problem we wouldn't have this big topic of 11 pages

Nope.  People always find things to complain about. 

5 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

can say what you want i still feel like this system treat me like a newbee not like a system rewarding veteran and playtime

In the login sense, you are.  And you know what?  As you log in more and more, you won't be.  

You know what's fair?  Everyone who has some of the more advanced rewards was once in the same spot as you.

[lainiwaku]

1 hour ago, Troll_Logic said:

You know what's fair?  Everyone who has some of the more advanced rewards was once in the same spot as you.

Nope because they will still be XX months/ years late even by connectin every day because DE don't stop to had new reward to that system
Imagine in 2 years, a new player will need 4 year of login for the actual rewards... lol

[-Trey-]

24 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope because they will still be XX months/ years late even by connectin every day because DE don't stop to had new reward to that system
Imagine in 2 years, a new player will need 4 year of login for the actual rewards... lol

It's called rewarding loyalty, old players will also need to spend 4 years logging in to obtain 4 year reward. Also when it comes to this whole being behind, only difference between you and them will be that they didn't knew what rewards will be 300 or 600 day later. You are at exactly same spot they were 600~ days ago and if you follow in their steps you are going to obtain them aswell.

It's actually extremely fair.

[lainiwaku]

2 minutes ago, -Trey- said:

It's called rewarding loyalty,

Nope because i played for days befor that system and  i need to start back to 0 it's onot rewardind loyality

[MystMan]

10 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope because i played for days befor that system and  i need to start back to 0 it's onot rewardind loyality

You have an incorrect definition of the word "loyalty" then.

You play the game a few months when it was released, take a 2 year break before coming back and call that loyalty?  Nope. That makes you a passing fancy.

Loyalty here means a customer who keeps coming back on a regular short-term basis.

 

This is extremely common business practice. Why do you think so many businesses (hotels/supermarkets/department stores/misc) use bonus points / frequent flyer miles / etc that reward frequent returning customers. You accumulate points or whatever and can use them for special free stuff.  Those who barely use these services won't bother cause these points will accumulate very slowly or even expire. There is no catch-up possibility here just because you used these places once a year ago, that would be weird if I saw somebody actually demand that here. "I used your hotel once a year ago and I demand the same perks as that guy who stays here every week!"  See?  Very weird.

The idea here is to reward frequent returning customers with exclusive free incentives so they don't leave for the competition.

Returning customers = dedicated people who spend the most money on your product & services.

[lainiwaku]

15 minutes ago, MystMan said:

You have an incorrect definition of the word "loyalty" then.

You play the game a few months when it was released, take a 2 year break before coming back and call that loyalty?  Nope. That makes you a passing fancy.

Loyalty here means a customer who keeps coming back on a regular short-term basis.

 

This is extremely common business practice. Why do you think so many businesses (hotels/supermarkets/department stores/misc) use bonus points / frequent flyer miles / etc that reward frequent returning customers. You accumulate points or whatever and can use them for special free stuff.  Those who barely use these services won't bother cause these points will accumulate very slowly or even expire. There is no catch-up possibility here just because you used these places once a year ago, that would be weird if I saw somebody actually demand that here. "I used your hotel once a year ago and I demand the same perks as that guy who stays here every week!"  See?  Very weird.

The idea here is to reward frequent returning customers with exclusive free incentives so they don't leave for the competition.

Returning customers = dedicated people who spend the most money on your product & services.

i had done everything   on the game  i had no reason to comeback...
Also, if you have some point  on your fidelity card, you still have them if you comeback a year after...
Also people  who have begin the game just when the news system started have less loyality but more rewards, stop finding  excuse, this system is bad !

You like the actual system i understand it, but you need to understand that you are not alone and half of the players don't like how it is actually

Edited August 14, 2017 by lainiwaku

[Gamma745]

25 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

i had done everything   on the game  i had no reason to comeback...

That means you're a customer that most likely won't come back. Why would any company reward or gift someone who are not coming back anyway?

 

26 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Also, if you have some point  on your fidelity card, you still have them if you comeback a year after...

Yeah. Your previous progress in this game isn't wiped. You can still play the game with whatever gear you have when you left (Boltor Prime, Soma Prime, whatever potato-ed Frame you have). You don't have to completely start over with newbie gear.

 

29 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Also people  who have begin the game just when the news system started have less loyality but more rewards, stop finding  excuse, this system is bad !

I'm sorry, less loyalty? If they logged in for only 20-30 days, they only get 20-30 stuff. You already logged in for 100-150 days in the old system, and you got 100-150 stuff from there. And if you logged in more, you get more. I don't see less loyal player getting shafted here.

 

The way I see the Daily Tribute system is just a built-in promotion system. "Hey, you can get nifty stuff just by logging in!". And the milestone is that, a milestone. "Congrats, you logged in for XX days! Here's something to commemorate it!"

[lainiwaku]

1 minute ago, Gamma745 said:

That means you're a customer that most likely won't come back. Why would any company reward or gift someone who are not coming back anyway?

 

Yeah. Your previous progress in this game isn't wiped. You can still play the game with whatever gear you have when you left (Boltor Prime, Soma Prime, whatever potato-ed Frame you have). You don't have to completely start over with newbie gear.

 

I'm sorry, less loyalty? If they logged in for only 20-30 days, they only get 20-30 stuff. You already logged in for 100-150 days in the old system, and you got 100-150 stuff from there. And if you logged in more, you get more. I don't see less loyal player getting shafted here.

 

The way I see the Daily Tribute system is just a built-in promotion system. "Hey, you can get nifty stuff just by logging in!". And the milestone is that, a milestone. "Congrats, you logged in for XX days! Here's something to commemorate it!"

Blablabla  say what you want it will not change that half of players don't like that system anyways

[MystMan]

55 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

i had done everything   on the game  i had no reason to comeback...

So what you're saying here is that the game wasn't all that great for you to keep coming back to despite having done all the content available at the time?  See where the "loyalty" part kicks in?
Other players kept coming back because the core game is fun for them. For them it's about quality instead of quantity. If the game wasn't worth sticking around after getting everything, then these login rewards don't really matter. And by staying away for prolonged periods of time, you will certainly have missed out on other special events and unique rewards. For example, do you have Furax Wraith? (Rathuum Event reward).  Do you have Supra Vandal? (Ambulas Reborn event). Do you have all 3 Dex anniversary reward weapons? Snipetron? And so on.  Plenty of new players and also old players who take long breaks miss these and will have to wait a looooong time (1+ year) before the opportunity returns when they will be able to get them, that brings the hundreds login day system on an equal level of patience. And when these weapons return, they might not even be permanent, but only available for a limited time. So if you're on a break during that period, you will miss them again. So the login system is the least of the their problems, The time-exclusive rewards are very easy to miss. The login rewards cannot be missed, just show up X number of times and the reward is yours.

I had to wait 2 years for a chance to get Boar, its missing MR points and empty codex entry mocking me the entire time from 2013 to 2015. (Its BP was taken from the market and later re-introduced as an enemy drop.) I didn't leave, I didn't complain, I kept on playing hoping for a chance it would return at an unannounced time. Those 2 years flew by fast.

 

55 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Also, if you have some point  on your fidelity card, you still have them if you comeback a year after...

You're taking my example out of context here. Whether something expires or not is irrelevant; one person who uses these things frequently has access to things a lot sooner than somebody who doesn't use them frequently. The rest of the world finds this fair otherwise it would've been abolished a long time ago if some unfair injustice was done on those who didn't use them frequently. And even if they carried the days over from before the Daily Tribute was introduced, we'd still be in this same argument.  I'd be at day 900 now while you would be at day 400 and you'd call that unfair.

 

14 minutes ago, lainiwaku said:

Blablabla  say what you want it will not change that half of players don't like that system anyways

Wow. No argumentative comeback. Just entitlement. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by MystMan

[Gamma745]

Just now, lainiwaku said:

Blablabla  say what you want it will not change that half of players don't like that system anyways

So? They don't like it, does it makes the game unplayable? It's just free stuff that is not crucial nor needed for progress.

Then what do you want to see?

[Troll_Logic]

6 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope 

You may want to rethink that.

6 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope because they will still be XX months/ years late even by connectin every day because DE don't stop to had new reward to that system
Imagine in 2 years, a new player will need 4 year of login for the actual rewards... lol

Sure.  And they will be in the same place you are now.

What is so difficult to understand?

5 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope because i played for days befor that system and  i need to start back to 0 it's onot rewardind loyality

That happened to EVERYONE.

You know what?  That comment did make me understand that the system ISN'T fair.  I'm being serious.  

 

New players have an unfair advantage.  I'm not kidding.

I, along with millions of other players, logged into this game for years and those logins weren't counted.

New players will have their logins counted IMMEDIATELY FROM START so they'll get their login rewards much faster.

So you know what?  It isn't fair.  New players get their login rewards MUCH FASTER.

Ehh, doesn't bother me though.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, MystMan said:

Wow. No argumentative comeback. Just entitlement. 

This is what has been happening the whole topic.  Not one of them has given a reason for it to be changed other than "I want it now.  I'm entitled to have it.". Which just isn't a valid reason at all.  

I swear this recent generation of gamers makes me really sad sometimes.  Other gaming companies are screwing them over left and right, but they want to nick pick one company who isn't screwing them over.  It's mind boggling at times.

Edited August 14, 2017 by DatDarkOne
context

[Sloan441]

9 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

Nope because i played for days befor that system and  i need to start back to 0 it's onot rewardind loyality

So what?

You knew how this game (or any other long running game) worked. You knew if you didn't play you were going to miss stuff. Well, you missed this when it was implemented.

We all started at zero for this one. You simply came back to the game much later. Best get started.

[Nirrel]

12 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

i had done everything   on the game  i had no reason to comeback...
Also, if you have some point  on your fidelity card, you still have them if you comeback a year after..
 

Well if the login system already started before you stopped playing than you would have kept your points on your fidelity card, it does not reset as I know of. But that "fidelity card" didn't even exist at the time so you had no point in it whatsoever. (Or do you really think that other buisnisses when they introduce this system the first time will give you point for the years that the system wasn't in place?)

Just like me BTW, and I have no problem with it at all, I find it fair as it is.

[Renzo]

15 hours ago, lainiwaku said:

Blablabla  say what you want it will not change that half of players don't like that system anyways

Did you run out of argumentations since you resorted in "blablabla" and making statements for "half the players" in their stead? You definitely don't speak for me at very least.

600 days for primed shred? I guess I have to play another 460 days or so to get that. 500 days for Zenistar? I already know that I like the weapon from what I have seen, I suppose it will take me another 340 days to get it. Do I want these items? I certainly do, especially the Zenistar.

The thing that I can and will do is to keep playing the game and logging in in order to get these items. This is the least that I can expect of myself and from others. If other people had to log in for 500 days or 600 days, what makes me or anyone else so damn special that they are entitled to these items by merely playing tens of days?

Nothing. We will follow the same path as the players before us and we will get our Zenistar and primed shred when we have enough login days behind us, like everyone else did, because it is only fair this way.

[Knight_Ex]

On 8/13/2017 at 7:35 PM, lainiwaku said:

guys, you forgot about returner that came back to warframe like me
I'm not a new player, when i came back i was MR19 almoste 20 but because i didn't played for almost 2 years, even if i have 1.000H  of playtime, i need to do  that daily tribute system since day 1, even if i have already been connected for days befor that new system !
So the problem is not only about new players
with that reward system i feel like being treated like a newbee...
i have almost everything on the game but i will need to connect everyday for 2 year  and may be more to have the actual rewards ...
So guys please stop saying 'naah new players need to wait blablabla' because i am not and i already played for a long time

Your fault for not sticking around, you left for 2 years that was your choice, you could have continued to keep tabs on the game, but because you basically abandoned it I have no sympathy for ya, you won't be treated like a new player, you will just be a returning player that lacks the login rewards, don't worry 1 year of logins and you'll get that zenistar, in the meantime have a cookie.

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, runx0 said:

Did you run out of argumentations since you resorted in "blablabla" and making statements for "half the players" in their stead? You definitely don't speak for me at very least.

600 days for primed shred? I guess I have to play another 460 days or so to get that. 500 days for Zenistar? I already know that I like the weapon from what I have seen, I suppose it will take me another 340 days to get it. Do I want these items? I certainly do, especially the Zenistar.

The thing that I can and will do is to keep playing the game and logging in in order to get these items. This is the least that I can expect of myself and from others. If other people had to log in for 500 days or 600 days, what makes me or anyone else so damn special that they are entitled to these items by merely playing tens of days?

Nothing. We will follow the same path as the players before us and we will get our Zenistar and primed shred when we have enough login days behind us, like everyone else did, because it is only fair this way.

Thank you so much for this post.  :D

[Gamma745]

Well, I suppose I should just chip in my little thoughts on the matter.

Even though personally I have no problem with the system, I think going too far in the milestone reward would be half of a waste on the developers part. Basically, DE will have to develop and design that only a few people could get access to. As we go further, less and less people could get access to it.

I just feel like it's a wasted asset in the game when only a handful people could even get it. And those people might not even enjoy it.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the Daily Tribute system, and I personally liked the Sigils given from it. But I'm just seeing this from a developer's perspective. You pour your heart and effort into this thing. You make a new toy, and obviously you want people to enjoy it. But it eventually just sit there, hidden in some game code, with probably only two-three people even able to touch it.

But I suppose that maybe the reason DE didn't make some of the Daily Milestone reward ahead of time.

[ComCray]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:04 AM, FAZZWARFRAME said:

Summary:

A group of self proclaimed experienced warframe players wanted to argue on behalf of the newer players that daily login reward system is bad for their morale because the time gap required to get everything has grow to become so huge that it will scare people away instead of incentivizing them to keep playing.  The other group of experienced players whom have been keeping up with the login reward wanted to re-enforce and self validate their effort spent by keeping the system as-is.

While all these are going on the actual new players are just enjoying the game not a care in the world.  This thread is nothing more than mid/long term players arguing over nothing to feel good about themselves while using the new players as an excuse.

LOL... That's some nice and blatant flame-bait you put there.. Well done :D

Seriously though, I think this ..discussion underlines one of the prime issues with the community as a whole. I brought this up several times in the forums : (simplified) there's essentially two kind of players here. The ones that seriously enjoy the game, the mechanics, the world, the underlying principals and the ones that are merely here for all the free stuff.
I would wager a years worth of sculptures the first group, the ones that love the game for the game, don't have ANY problem with the login-reward system as is. To the second group, however, this is yet another game-mechanic that gets in the way of what they are after: the loot.

TBH, I have no sympathy for the latter group. The sheer amount of stuff they can get at without lifting a finger is already unprecedented. Show me one game that lets you have all of this stuff, and customization of said stuff, right out of the box FOR FREE. There is none. There is NO game out there that is so generous with loot, useful & customizable loot, as this game. As such whining about that one bit of gear that DOESN'T fall on your lap, immediately and without any effort on your part, is insanely petty. Seriously, get a grip. 
As I stated in my rant about "the grind"¹ a while back, if the game gets in the way of you getting stuff, then this game maybe just isn't for you. Maybe you should be looking at free games like Lego's Digital Designer². Where you can get all the bricks right out of the box and it lets you build whatever, however and whenever you want.  For Free. 

Warframe is a game that gives you all kinds of neat things and you pay for them with time. That's basically it. And it's not even hiding it. So whining about how a certain element costs time to get is.. is.. mindblowingly silly.


________________________________________
1. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/770751-mto-the-grind/

2. Lego Digital Designer : http://ldd.lego.com

[SethCypher]

Its a daily login reward, it incentivizes you to login. I don't see what the problem is.

This is coming from a 3-4 year old player who has missed 300 days worth of login rewards just because I was too lazy to login. I was actually incredibly surprised by the fact that the tribute system doesn't reset your progress when you miss a day.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, ComCray said:

Seriously though, I think this ..discussion underlines one of the prime issues with the community as a whole. I brought this up several times in the forums : (simplified) there's essentially two kind of players here. The ones that seriously enjoy the game, the mechanics, the world, the underlying principals and the ones that are merely here for all the free stuff.
;.................................*snipped to make quote shorter*...................

Warframe is a game that gives you all kinds of neat things and you pay for them with time. That's basically it. And it's not even hiding it. So whining about how a certain element costs time to get is.. is.. mindblowingly silly.


________________________________________
1. https://forums.warframe.com/topic/770751-mto-the-grind/

I agree whole heartedly with this and the topic in the link.  It's a shame that I missed the original topic when it was first posted and thank you for including a link to it.  Great read.  As a rather aged gamer myself, I have seen quite a few things in the industry and see things the same as you do.