Login Rewards kind of unattainable for new players

[Andaius]

9 hours ago, ScribbleClash said:

For years now, gameplay was fine. But suddenly, since these weapons exist, it is impossible to continue playing without these weapons/mods. Please explain to me, how the items in question have made it so that the game becomes unplayable without them.

IMHO this is all about wanting your toys straight away.

Indeed. For Years the weapons mods didn't exist in the first place. The game played just fine without them. Login rewards are just A BONUS for you playing those long years as a THANK YOU.

[Knight_Ex]

I know its kinda contradicting to say this but I wanna see how long before this thread dies or a mod locks it since DE themselves basically said "NO" on the catchup login system on stream.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, MagPrime said:

I can see it being important for some min maxing builds, but overall, it's more of an investment than most people are willing to make.

I agree with this.  I use Primed Fury to replace Berserker in my crit builds and on status weapons that need more speed.  Other than that it's not really a mandatory mod as some are trying to suggest.  It's nice to have but not a must have.  

50 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

I know its kinda contradicting to say this but I wanna see how long before this thread dies or a mod locks it since DE themselves basically said "NO" on the catchup login system on stream.

I'm waiting for it to be locked too.  I'm surprised that it's gone on this long.  

[Knight_Ex]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I agree with this.  I use Primed Fury to replace Berserker in my crit builds and on status weapons that need more speed.  Other than that it's not really a mandatory mod as some are trying to suggest.  It's nice to have but not a must have.  

I'm waiting for it to be locked too.  I'm surprised that it's gone on this long.  

Yeah, also lets not forget rivens that can give weapons attack speed, I have a Guandao riven with 140% reach, 45% attack speed, 127% crit damage and -56% status duration, And as someone said if you need to focus on combo's then primed fury can make some of them pretty damn tricky to pull off.  Its nice but Beserker can work just as well with regular fury.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Knight_Ex said:

And as someone said if you need to focus on combo's then primed fury can make some of them pretty damn tricky to pull off.

That is the exact reason I don't have any speed mods on my Nikana prime using Blind Justice.  It just doesn't need that speed boost, and becomes uncontrollable speed boosts.   

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

To the people saying that it is ok to keep the system as-is, I only have one comment: It may be okay now, but there will be a point at which it isn't. Sure, 600 days for a decent primed mod isn't too bad, as it should be less than 2 years even if you don't get every single day. The problem comes when Primed Intensify, or Primed Split Chamber, or Prime Thermite Rounds. or some other such nonsense, comes out as the 1000 day login bonus. That's almost 3 years to get a near-gamebreaking mod. And whatever Primed Mod they release will have to be near-gamebreaking, or else the veterans will complain about it not being worth the time put into getting it.

This is the biggest problem with login rewards as they are now: the mentality that, just because you logged in for x number of days, you deserve to get something both exclusive and overpowered. This means that any player newer than you will always be a has-not, because by the time they have what you have now, you will have the next new thing that is even more powerful than the previous thing.

Now, I have absolutely no problem with exclusive weapons, as we have multiple other choices, and we can only use one at a time. The Zenistar and Zenith may have good stats and interesting mechanics, but they are not the most powerful weapons in their class; and even if they were, the mods you put in a weapon are what determine how powerful it is, moreso than the base stats (assuming the base stats are decent).

Mods, on the other hand, are a completely different system. For any Primed Mod released through the login system, there is nothing else more powerful in the same stat for the same capacity cost except a theoretical riven, and DE has explicitly stated that balance is not based on rivens. Take Primed Shred for example: it has more punch through than Metal Auger and almost as much fire rate as Speed Trigger, for less overall mod drain and one less mod slot. It can also be stacked with both of them for 4.2 meter punch through and over 100% higher fire rate. That kind of fire rate and punch through can turn almost any weapon into a CC weapon. That is already almost gamebreaking, and we are only halfway through the login system.

Over all, the biggest issue is still the elitism driving the entire argument, but even without addressing that, the best course of action would be to tone down the power of upcoming login-based Primed Mods to be stuff like Primed Quickdraw or Primed Thunderbolt, i.e. mods that are either niche or QoL, not directly affecting damage or survivability.

[Voltage]

6 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Wait, Primed Fury was the 200 day reward?

I didn't even realize I had it. Guess it's not that much of a mandatory mod. XD

You probably were too busy on the forums and didn't even notice what day you hit  .

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, --Q--Voltage said:

You probably were too busy on the forums and didn't even notice what day you hit  .

Nah, 200 day reward time I wasn't that active on the forums.

[stormsasuke180]

Mods for the most part, I'm fine as a login reward. Weapons on the other hand? It's a bit too much. How about instead of waiting for X days for this weapon, it becomes X days and you get to choose which of these 3 weapons you want. Someone might want the Azima but I do the Zenistar for example. I feel this would be a fair compromise.

[Knight_Ex]

2 minutes ago, stormsasuke180 said:

Mods for the most part, I'm fine as a login reward. Weapons on the other hand? It's a bit too much. How about instead of waiting for X days for this weapon, it becomes X days and you get to choose which of these 3 weapons you want. Someone might want the Azima but I do the Zenistar for example. I feel this would be a fair compromise.

Well to sum it up, the reason they don't want that is because you can't always have your cake and eat it too, no matter what is suggested on this thread, the developers will never in no way touch the login rewards that have already been released, hell from what they said on stream they don't want to touch it altogether because people would scream pay-to-win.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Knight_Ex

[Chipputer]

5 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

This is the biggest problem with login rewards as they are now: the mentality that, just because you logged in for x number of days, you deserve to get something both exclusive and overpowered

This mentality is pretty much being created by the people who aren't far enough along to get the latest reward.

We're all just logging in and seeing what DE is going to give us. That's it. I'd have still logged in for 600+ days even without the bonus items they've been handing out as would numerous, numerous others. None of this became a problem until others started popping up saying, "I want that shiny toy and I want it now."

Edited August 22, 2017 by Chipputer

[DatDarkOne]

40 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

None of this became a problem until others started popping up saying, "I want that shiny toy and I want it now."

Had to quote that so it could be seen a second time.  :D

[Knight_Ex]

53 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

This mentality is pretty much being created by the people who aren't far enough along to get the latest reward.

We're all just logging in and seeing what DE is going to give us. That's it. I'd have still logged in for 600+ days even without the bonus items they've been handing out as would numerous, numerous others. None of this became a problem until others started popping up saying, "I want that shiny toy and I want it now."

If your just logging in for the sake of knocking another notch off the login reward belt then clearly you haven't experienced the rest of the game, I'm MR21, been playing for about 3k hours and I still don't have prime shred, but I don't just login for the sake of claiming another day, I have other stuff to do, like starting a forma, checking alerts, running a few fissure missions, doing sorties and then checking if clanmates need help farming or whatnot, and sometimes I even do some solo kuva farms. And there are the odd days I play the trade market and flip some items and plat, oh and before someone chimes in, no I am NOT a draco baby, you can check my profile in game if you need to confirm it, I hadn't found out about draco until I was well into my time spent.  But anyway this isn't really an issue as DE themselves said that they don't want to touch the login rewards cause its got the quote "icky smell" from DE_Steves words during the last stream.

[Andaius]

Steam says that I have 2406 hours logged in Warframe been playing since Cryotic was introduced so like 2.5 years or so? I'm at something like 389 days ln my daily log tally. So yeah I don't log in every day I've missed plenty of days. I log in to play warframe, not to farm log in rewards. Lets face it the games is plenty easy with out any primed mods in the first place so getting those "OP" log prime mods don't really mean much at all.

[bubbabenali]

On 19.8.2017 at 6:36 PM, Sloan441 said:

See you in 600 days.

Best get started.

Oh crap, I'm allready at 620.

Well lucky me has no live, so I find at least one minute a day to log in...

Edited August 23, 2017 by bubbabenali

[Sloan441]

19 minutes ago, bubbabenali said:

Well lucky me has no live, so I find at least one minute a day to log in...

I've always viewed it as a bonus DE gives me for doing something I was going to do anyway.

I miss days here and there, but I actually like the game (novel thought there) and usually spend an hour or two a day in the game playing the game. Who knew? I don't play nearly as much as I used to, but there's always something needing doing. I just don't obsess over it.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

this'll probably get lost in the 6 (now 13 since i started writing) pages of replies, but what if players who log in on consecutive days gain bonus login value?
Say, you log in 10 days in a row, you gain X more login points, proportional to, say, the distance to 50 days behind the current max logins (meaning the number of logins if you would have if you never missed a day)

So say mr johnny-come-lately logs in consecutively for his first 10 days, the game goes "thank you for logging in consecutively" and adds extra catch-up logins to the value of:
extra login value = 0.05 x ((max_days - 50) - current_days) 

so johnny-come-lately, having only 10 logins, would receive 28 (rounded down from 28.6) bonus logins
(maybe it has a max of 20 to prevent people reaching 50 in one go in the future)

its important to note that johnny wouldn't receive 28 login rewards all at once, the only extra reward he'd get is any milestones he hit

what to you lot reckon?

Edited August 24, 2017 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel

[Brosephelon]

On 8/22/2017 at 9:37 AM, Andaius said:

Indeed. For Years the weapons mods didn't exist in the first place. The game played just fine without them. Login rewards are just A BONUS for you playing those long years as a THANK YOU.

For years you never had a reason to fight an enemy over lv50 unless you wanted to do endless void key runs.  

Now you have multiple missions tossing you against lv50+ enemies daily.  Primarily from Kuva Floods and Sorties.  

For years the Dakra Prime (when using a stance), Dragon Nikana (for quick melee), and Dual Ichors (coptering) where the best melee weapons in game.  Nowadays all 3 of those weapons are considered mid tier trash by most people and realistically cannot compete with more optimized weapons for the more serious content out there like those Kuva Floods and Sorties.  

Times change and the game changes with it.  What was once considered great is now mostly obsolete or even non-viable.  

 

For the most part I don't care about login rewards save currently 4 things.  Primed Vigor, Fury, Shred, and the Zenistar.  Even then I don't care much about the Zenistar but its still something that enables a completely different playstyle, if they want to keep the Zenistar as a login reward atleast offer a melee weapon that can fill a similar niche from other means.  Where as the Primed Mods are just "you will never be as strong as this person so F*** you" and that feels like S#&$, it feels like S#&$ having to explain why they will never have as much health and shields as your build, it sucks explaining why they will never have as much dps as your build, and it sucks realizing your friends who have played longer will always be better than you.   

I'd say a pretty big aspect of power fantasy games like Warframe is the satisfaction of collecting everything, the satisfaction of having "the best" weapon or atleast the best of a particular build/weapon/frame.  Its your goal, its what people work and strive for.  If you then tell them "come back in 2years of daily logins and you might be able to be on equal footing as these people (who will invariably get more new things in those 600 days) that you can never hope to catch up to meet.  It destroys any fantasy of having the best melee build, of having the best rifle build, of having the best tank build.  

I am by no means saying they should just say F*** it and hand them out like candy, but at the same time there needs to be some sort of catch up mechanic.  There needs to be less barriers to entry/success.  New players have to feel they have a chance to catch up, they have to feel like there is atleast the potential even if realistically they will never NEVER actually catch up it atleast should feel like maybe possibly theres a chance, that if they tried hard and grinded their asses off that there is a chance.  Instead as it stands a new player can never catch up, there is no hope, not even a tiny thread of hope there is just a wall that says you are 600 days behind and you will never catch up and by the time you get those 600 days they will have 600 more days on you still.  You have no hope, you have no chance, get in line and be a peasant because that is all you are and all your ever going to be.  Which for a power fantasy game thats simply not a good setup to have. 

[Andaius]

Those weapons you just named still cut through level 50-100 guys just fine.

[redsphere]

Kind of everyone is right in here and yet this problem is really hard to fix so that everyone is happy...

I understand new tenno, looking at that 600 days gap in their progress, getting frustrated at how little they can do about it.

Even if they log in 600 days straight, that gap will remain, because 600 more days will be added to the top limit you can reach in login rewards.

You will feel discouraged, loosing interest, feeling like you're punished for not playing the game sooner.

On the other hand you have vets who really don't have much to do in the game: you have all the gear, all the resources, all weapons and frames leveled and formed...

The only reason you play every day is login reward, sorties and some high level RNG grind like arcanes, maybe kuva if you're into min maxing rivens.

If login rewards suddenly become skippable, then what is their actual worth? Why login every day?

You could obviously lock Mastery rewards so that they don't drop in login rewards after 700 days (365 x 2 is roughly 700)

Only sigils and some loot.

So every new player gets all items form login rewards in 2 years.

Vets only loose interest in the login system and the next primed mod or gun that will be their next milestone. (Since there is nothing to look forward to)

Maybe that would work.

Id personally leave the system as it is.

Not having a few weapons and mods that don't really affect players power or mastery that much is something newcomers and less login active games can handle.

They'll get them eventually.

That being said, I'm 2 days behind the login front line so this is definitely a biased opinion.

 

[(PSN)cjdreadful]

I love the login reward system. I remember when it was consecutive. If they added some sort of modifier or login streak it'd still be the same boat. Vets will still be ahead of the game. You can't catch up if vets are given the same opportunity. Theyll come out with something new and vets will get it first. And new players will be jelly and complain.

The only solution to that is milestones to go away  and become a roll of the dice and thats not gonna happen. Poor day 399 gets rng rolled. If you dont log in or waited this long to join the game you've missed out, not just on daily rewards but as well as events. There's a plethora of weapons, mods, events and things do. Can't have it all. Unless you do. Then rub it in ;). 

[(PSN)pietyu]

I would Like to find out what people think of the idea in general. Personally when I watch the stream and heard them say they would be will to PAY TO CATCH-UP ...BAD IDEA!!!

But i feel the idea as a whole is worth thinking about. I feel for everyone that may even be unable to just login everyday. Currently I am around 450~ login and fine with them implementing a catch-up system if they can do it without having to pay. Since if you think about it another year it will a 1 k daily login that pretty daunting to say the least.

 

My idea is if you complete the sortie/Raid/Or even play x amount of time you should get 1 extra milestone login daily. So 2 for that day. If your at the Max Daily Login you would be unable to get the extra milestone login but possibly something extra. Maybe it could be a special icon that you can only use when your at the max login reward.

I would like anyone who reads this to post if they think this is a good idea or not or how to improve it

 

I feel like a poll is needed cause i really want to know what people think.

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=59a100c9e4b09fefd2dc4daa

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by (PS4)pietyu

[TaleTeller]

Y'know, if this were a game where you Have To have the best of the best latest gear and mods to get by, I'd see the point in a catch-up system. But it's not. You can do any kind of mission without the prime mods or Z-weapons.

Sure they help, but the regular versions of the mods help too, and in most missions you'll have teammate with you, and they'll help more than a mod will.

Or, y'know, lemme put it this way: what can you do with a login reward weapon/mod that you can't do without them? People were playing raids and 1-hour survivals waaaay before any of these things got implemented, so really, I don't see the point.

[Mr._Clean]

On the one hand the login system only requires you to log in, not actually play, so it's very easy to progress. On the other hand the fact that dedicated rewards extend past 100-200 days is just ridiculous.

Yes, you don't need primed mods, yes you don't NEED the weapons and whatever else is to come with the milestones, but they exist, they make your gear better (in a gear building system that matters whether it makes stuff easier or not) and they are worth mastery rank points. Finding out that you need to log in ever day for nearly 3 years to acquire these (with no end in sight of the dedicated milestones) is incredibly discouraging.

My vote would be to abolish the login system past 150 days (or some reasonable amount of days) and find a way to incorporate all the other stuff into the game normally.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mr._Clean

[Magicfingers]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)pietyu said:

I would Like to find out what people think of the idea in general. Personally when I watch the stream and heard them say they would be will to PAY TO CATCH-UP ...BAD IDEA!!!

what stream was this?