Operators... Focus 2.0... screw you, both

[Sziklamester]

I personally don't like the operators nor the archwing because these ar not impressed me at all. The lunaro was an interesting experiment and it could work if they finish it or expand the system.

The lunaro needs more interesting rewards, more arena (maps) and a bit bigger capacity. Also would be nice to have some dojo lunaro plus player created events and competitions then I guess many clan which are active will be make delegations and make in house torunaments for the real tournaments. This element is missing from the clans / alliances repertoire which can make the clans and alliances more meaningful than the research. There need more fun pvp duelling, more entertaining options and then the Lunaro could be more popular.

The archwing also could get it's competitive (racer) additions to make it interesting and it would be nice if they make the movement system better than this then I am sure more peoples will use it.

The operators are introduced long after the game start and many peoples used his/hers headcanons what the tenno like and what warframes are. They basically ruined the headcanons and introduced non cliche' cliche kids with superpowers one of the bad kind what in tv movies and series can happen and not so popular. If they introduce adults maybe it would have had been much better to accept because the majority in any way imagined persons inside the suit. The recent warframe designs looks weird and antihuman in that aspect their looks not really appealing for a normal healthy human inside of these armors. With this introduction they basically ruined a good start for older players whom played the game longer. Many accepted many not and many peoples have nothing bad/good opinions on them some like/loves them. I personally not like their voiceacting and their clunkyness but I haven't finished the quests so my opinion is based on the common fact what other players / toubers and other sources say. Also I know how annoying ordis or lotus so without a proper option to eliminate them fully I could be sick if I need all the day listen them. DE made a lot of good and bad designwise implementations and I count al of them.

The operators however now the part of the game so any changes which make them interesting, less repetitive in voiceacting and a better character creation could give them a good boost and kick them to the usefulness from the not so useful category. 

 

My opinion on the optional and forced stuff is there will be always contents which feels forced because that need them for progression milestones. The junctions introduced to force peoples to develop and reach by themselves the starchart instead of taxi. The kuva farming optional but forced because otherwise you cannot get rivens and kuva however I am not a fan of the rivens and nor I have them. (bandaid). The frames recently added to the game was forced us to play quests and the others also force us to fight with bosses to get them. These things for me less forcing because it makes some sense and add some challange to the table. The problem is only with the forced contents if those are not fun at all and you need to do them for progress. The developers can make a game mode interesting or fun if execute them right if not then you feel it is a force which against your fun. You are here to have fun and enjoy the game if the game turn into a job then it is less fun and it will burn you out.

I am not against any content and addition if those are fun and the forcing of player is not feels a force. 

[OvisCaedo]

30 minutes ago, Kjahla81 said:

Out of curiosity would the current playerbase play the game if Operators were introduce from the very beginning?

To me it seems like DE wanted this from the start but maybe they lacked resources. That maybe after the growth of the game they are realizing their dream. 

 

If they'd been in the game from the beginning, they hopefully would have felt better implemented and tied in mechanically. But instead the game was designed and built for years without them, so I wouldn't be surprised if they always feel tacked-on gameplay wise. Because they are tacked on. They could be tacked on better, though, and that's presumably the goal. It's not one that's caught my interest, and some supposed leak screenshots of the trees on the dev build looked equally full of nothing I had an interest in. But maybe it'll work out.

You might have meant this question lore-wise though. Lore-wise I have no real issue with them, but it does seem like they bother a lot of people.

Edited October 9, 2017 by OvisCaedo

[Kjahla81]

25 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

If they'd been in the game from the beginning, they hopefully would have felt better implemented and tied in mechanically. But instead the game was designed and built for years without them, so I wouldn't be surprised if they always feel tacked-on gameplay wise. Because they are tacked on. They could be tacked on better, though, and that's presumably the goal. It's not one that's caught my interest, and some supposed leak screenshots of the trees on the dev build looked equally full of nothing I had an interest in. But maybe it'll work out.

You might have meant this question lore-wise though. Lore-wise I have no real issue with them, but it does seem like they bother a lot of people.

I guess to me from playing the game it feels like maybe this is what they wanted. Lore-wise of course. Yet in the early stages it wasn't possible. 

I understand why players are upset with the change. It's their right but I think some are jumping the gun. Maybe let's get the update, see how it works, and then pick apart what needs fixing. I keep seeing threads where players giving out incomplete information. 

Again lets wait and see.

[GhostLacuna]

47 minutes ago, Kjahla81 said:

Out of curiosity would the current playerbase play the game if Operators were introduce from the very beginning?

To me it seems like DE wanted this from the start but maybe they lacked resources. That maybe after the growth of the game they are realizing their dream. 

 

Nope i would never have played the game for as long as i had with such badly written characters.

If they showed even a hint of maturity, competence or experience and if this was shown in voicelines and dialogue i might be able to stand them.

Now when the partner streamers aka shul and inexpensivegamer have done a much much better job at showing of both operators and focus 2.0 

i can at least see a use in using the schools themselves even if madurai and unariu does not intrest me.

I have no need to fight the ediola so i will just use the parts of focus that benefit my warframes.

I play the game for the warframes not kids that act as if they where 12.

DE need to realise not everyone will stand an forced avatar that have less experience or competence then a new player fresh out of second dream.

So while they will never be anything but a oxygen wasting npc in my ship i hope DE actually improve them significantly for those of you that like them.

And while DE dropped the ball on showing focus 2.0 of i must again say that shul and inexperiencedgamer really stepped it up and showed off focus 2.0 in a good way.

 

[Emolition]

1 hour ago, Kjahla81 said:

Out of curiosity would the current playerbase play the game if Operators were introduce from the very beginning?

To me it seems like DE wanted this from the start but maybe they lacked resources. That maybe after the growth of the game they are realizing their dream. 

 

I played sence end of update 6 if they had operators back then I would still have played for I love the operator. They would allso been more upgraded by now as they would had a few more years to "mature".  The operator was a big part of why I started to play activley again after a long brake before second dream.  This next update they will finally get some use beside getting 1 shot or passive buff the warframe.

[ensignvidiot]

I think, a month after Plains drops. You should at least try everything it has to offer.

 

But if you really hate the Tenno that much, it's cool too. I think you maybe disappointed in Warframe's creative direction more than its mechanical direction.

 

I personally feel the focus reworks, and the new systems that are coming with plains will give me more reasons to enjoy playing, past filling out my codex. 

 

 

Warframe has always had controversial and community splitting additions and changes through the years. We seem to be getting a new one.

 

If you really think you'll hate it. Just stay away from Earth for the next month until curiosity wins out in your mind. It may still do nothing for you at that point, but I hope at least you'll give it the chance to prove itself as a system and mechanic.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

you're gonna get left behind than, pal. like it or not, operators are gonna be the future, or at least part of it.

I like to think of my operator as a little bit of comic relief in the otherwise mostly serious Warframe universe. there's a sense of humour in going from an 8ft tall golden killing machine to an edgy looking pre-teen with a funny haircut. enemies would be like "oh no he unleashing his true Tenno Power! ... and it's a kid. pffffftt AHAHAHA!" *laserbeam  to the face*

obviously I'll always prefer Warframes, but I think one of the reasons why Operators aren't that likeable is that there's not really been much development with them, aside form the little bit in TWW. give us some PTSD flashbacks, some mass-effect style dialogue decisions and expand upon the Sun/Moon alignment system, give us situations where we're supposed to feel something for our tenno kid, and maybe people will find them more engaging. most importantly, I think DE shouldn't be afraid to get dark with the storyline; if the Zariman incident was really that horrible, show me, let me see how it torments the Tenno, and maybe I can then invest some emotion into these characters.

[Tatann]

Completely agree with OP, Operator introduction almost made me quit the game.

Luckily, focus (well actually Zenurik energy overflow) managed to compensate greatly.

But since they're removing energy overflow to force even more operator gameplay, I can't say I'm happy about the update.

[UrielColtan]

4 hours ago, Gweredith said:

It's because of whiners like you that a great concept like archwing is still in an underdeveloped state, and now you also want to ruin the progression of another aspect of the game. 

Wanting more development in the core gameplay isn't the problem, and its more like Archwing was underdeveloped because its an otherwise glaring drain on DE's already spread thin resources. They had been overlooking or simply having to neglect much of what has been getting criticised about and suggested for Archwing, due to this. Using Archwing as a vehicle in the Plains is a good start to improvement, and I suggested similar terrestrial uses for Arching myself in discussions and on Steve's former Sunday streams specifically. 

The conceptual appeal of Archwing at first was the seeming transition from normal play to optional aerial combat if not complete travel, as opposed to being a completely seperate game with little carry over from the core gameplay, such as your frames. Quite a few people don't find it that appealing that their warframe abilities are generally irrelevant to your archwing, and as of now there are only about 4 of archwings, not counting the prime variant. That got repetetive fast.

No one liked endless farming for archwing parts either, just so they could do more leveling and archwing missions which quickly became realised as tedious and not very fun, And instead of DE replacing that with inevitably more interesting content, they just eventually removed the Archwing parts, giving less reason than ever to go do archwing missions.

 The environments for archwing are not very good and have been very barren and samey since debut, making the slow leveling or mod farming feel even more repetetive. Some of the enronments can barely even be called environments, and so you are sometimes simply engaging a mostly black void with your Archwing, which is only a fun concept under the premise of actually traveling to other planets and other celestial bodies(I.E., more interactive and eventful areas across the galaxy). Then in between archwing introduction and the current point in time, they managed to ruin the flight mechanics for many people in attempt to  incorporate their version of 6dof, making people hate Archwing even more, or even to experience motion sickness. It left a bad taste in many people's mouth, even after the last revert on that change(Or making it optional.),

 

Edited October 9, 2017 by UrielColtan

[MopUpCrewman]

All I can grasp from this is that you're afraid of change. If that's the case, you might be surprised to learn this game isn't for you.

4 hours ago, Coverop said:

I gotta agree with Toran.

The introduction of Operator was so far, the worst choice for this game.

I could understand the choice If Operator was supposed to be exclusively for Lore/Story.... but no. They're mandatory to remove Kuva's Guardian armor....

 

The War Within only implies that game will force you to use Operators more in the future... 

After quest was completed I have forgotten what powers I've obtained.

 

Just wait till DE decides to create sortie designed for Operators.... forum will be on fire.

I wonder how hard Warframe would flop if DE were to listen to you and go back to what Warframe you want back in U7 or so. Seriously dude, try adapting instead of making an entire video on how you're quitting because so much has changed in a game that is all about evolving. The game didn't get to having giant billboards in New York by standing still.

Edit: Some context, Coverop made a video on how he's quitting after they changed the mission exit jingle. It wasn't a joke.

Edited October 9, 2017 by MopUpCrewman

[Toran]

6 minutes ago, MopUpCrewman said:

All I can grasp from this is that you're afraid of change. If that's the case, you might be surprised to learn this game isn't for you.

I wonder how hard Warframe would flop if DE were to listen to you and go back to what Warframe you want back in U7 or so. Seriously dude, try adapting instead of making an entire video on how you're quitting because so much has changed in a game that is all about evolving. The game didn't get to having giant billboards in New York by standing still.

Afraid of change? After 4k hours? At MR24? With an arsenal that almost equals the codex? I just don't like the super-imposed and pretty bad operator mechanics - but I just realized, they had no other choice to bring in Operators as they did... Warframe is played on PS and XBox too, and you can only set that many buttons on a controller...

I just hope the operators don't play a crucial part in PoE's harder and longer group missions. Ever had a bad host without a clue on a Kuva mission? That's a major pain in the &#! when you constantly are too late to intercept Kuva clouds due to lag while the only guy without lag has no idea what to do.

Imagine something like that at the end of a long-run mission. And who in your quote said anything about quitting?

[Sajochi]

 From what I can tell about the new focus system, a lot of the usual complaints are null. One of that main complaints is that operators are slow and clunky, and switching to them is too stiff. Seems to be changed as they maintain momentum when switching, and it even looks like some of the new animation rigging is being added to address this. Another major complaint is that focus is only about operators, when there are passives the affect warframes, and some that affect Warframe and Operator. 

The major issue with these complaints is that they are based on current operators when there is enough to prove that the new system should be more polished and probably worth a shot. I'm not saying hold your tongue until the changes come. It's ok to have concerns and to voice them. I'm saying that jumping to conclusions and calling something bad without even trying it is petty and pointless. It's like a child that will not eat anything new because they know it's icky.

Have concerns, have doubts, but approach it with tact and reason. Saying "screw you" only makes you less sympathetic and automatically shuts down your argument. 

[Ghogiel]

I'm on the fence on operators in generally. I can't say I like how they play or any mechanics involved with them right now. It does look a little better in PoE. But even a full update.revamp isn't selling them on to me. The focus skills are still looking a bit meh for the most part. zipping into and out of op mode when you are controlling a cyborgnetic battle puppet, always seemed jarring, both mechanically and lore wise. I mean ok so we are void enhanced kids controlling the Wfs, that's fine I actually kinda like that part, it just feels to me like they tried to shoehorn the operators into the gameplay to make them take a more prominent role.

[BornWithTeeth]

23 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

 From what I can tell about the new focus system, a lot of the usual complaints are null. One of that main complaints is that operators are slow and clunky, and switching to them is too stiff. Seems to be changed as they maintain momentum when switching, and it even looks like some of the new animation rigging is being added to address this. Another major complaint is that focus is only about operators, when there are passives the affect warframes, and some that affect Warframe and Operator. 

The major issue with these complaints is that they are based on current operators when there is enough to prove that the new system should be more polished and probably worth a shot. I'm not saying hold your tongue until the changes come. It's ok to have concerns and to voice them. I'm saying that jumping to conclusions and calling something bad without even trying it is petty and pointless. It's like a child that will not eat anything new because they know it's icky.

Have concerns, have doubts, but approach it with tact and reason. Saying "screw you" only makes you less sympathetic and automatically shuts down your argument. 

There is one additional and quite valid issue: Yes, Focus 2.0 appears to fix the problems with Operator gameplay, but only after you master it entirely. It's like game developers saying "Oh, shoot, a massive bug. Ok, we're releasing a bugfix for the game! The way it works is that after you beat the final boss, you'll get a prompt to apply the bugfix and make the game work properly."

 

See the glitch there? Yeah, Focus 2.0 fixes Operators, after you grind your &#! off and feed it literally dozens of millions of Focus points.

[rudman88]

Honestly, I hate using the operator.

 

The main reasons are :

1. Warframe is P2P i thinbk since player is hosting. If i am unlucky meet a crazy host with 200 ping, using operator can cause some annoying bugs.

such as :

A. Operator dying caused the warframe cant attack. this is usually happens when the host have 200 ping +++

B. the warframe and oiperator keep swapping

C. the warframe keep falling down to the void when return from operator

 

2. The operator transform time. it take 2 second to demorph into normal operator. Cant they make this faster ?

 

3. Story line, warframe killed the orokin to the last children and descendant ( stalker story ). Why now i need to change to an operator to steal a bloody rod from the queen  to kill her ? thats way side tracked

 

4. The title is Warframe. Focus more on warframe. Is logical to charge up our frame with hidden skill of operator. But do  it like any other cartoon or game. The operator can suddenly charge up and the frame can charge up. He dont need to go out and to power up the frame.

But now, our warframe need to kill to collect the soul for the operator like some evil dark lord sucking souls. For it to release the power at full blast and sleep back in the warframe for it to charge the evil bad guy who keep taking souls. Does it make sense to you all ?

 

 

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, WhiteCr0w said:

Maybe in a few years we'll have some facial hair options. I just want to be the badass middle-aged Warrior who passes down harsh lessons to new students. :(

 

The problem is that DE one hundred million billion trillion percent reject the idea of the Tenno as in any way, at all, now, in the past, or ever, at all, in any possible future, possessing the minds of careful, experienced ninja operatives. 

 

Kids now. Kids forever. And ever. Amen.

 

 

And it is really frustrating, and it is honestly bad writing. I feel like maybe they should outsource that, because sweet Jesus they had a good concept and they shot it in the head, point blank. All the potential, just splattered all over the wall.

Edited October 9, 2017 by BornWithTeeth

[theMongoose]

Yes, the operators are awkward and underpowered.

Yes, they do feel like a tacked on part of the game most of the time.

But! Think about how for Warframe has come in the last few years. There is always the potential for great changes. This game moves slow in terms of story. We get one major cinematic quest a year and maybe 2 minor quests with a little bit of lore.

So if we think about our Tenno in terms of the classic "Hero's Journey" we can get an idea of the overarching progress. So far we have been introduced to the world through basic gameplay and exposition from basic quests. Then we had a "call to adventure" with the second dream quest. Then with the war within we got a meeting of the mentor of sorts with Teshin but I also feel like we will hover around the same place with the Sacrifice.

So if you equate this to something like Star Wars then we've only just left Tatooine with Obi-wan on the Millennium Falcon. It's like saying Luke is the worst thing ever but we still have Empire and Return to get through.

So while I agree that operators are clunky and frustrating now. Just remember Warframe is a long-term game development wise. So there is always hope for changes.

Edited October 9, 2017 by theMongoose

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, theMongoose said:

Yes, the operators are awkward and underpowered.

Yes, they do feel like a tacked on part of the game most of the time.

But! Think about how for Warframe has come in the last few years. There is always the potential for great changes. This game moves slow in terms of story. We get one major cinematic quest a year and maybe 2 minor quests with a little bit of lore.

So if we think about our Tenno in terms of the classic "Hero's Journey" we can get an idea of the overarching progress. So far we have been introduced to the world through basic gameplay and exposition from basic quests. Then we had a "call to adventure" with the second dream quest. Then with the war within we got a meeting of the mentor of sorts with Teshin but I also feel like we will hover around the same place with the Sacrifice.

So if you equate this to something like Star Wars then we've only just left Tatooine with Obi-wan on the Millennium Falcon. It's like saying Luke is the worst thing ever but we still have Empire and Return to get through.

So while I agree that operators are clunky and frustrating now. Just remember Warframe is a long-term game development wise. 

Mate.

 

Using your analogy? It will be twenty years until we get to 'Return of the Jedi'.

[Kyronz]

Operator play is a terrible experience, throwing away focus (by moving it to operator) is a lot like repainting your car after it has been wrecked.  

We can only hope that they don't lock further content behind this stunted last minute design decision that they implemented last year.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Kyronz

[Vox_Preliator]

40 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

 From what I can tell about the new focus system, a lot of the usual complaints are null. One of that main complaints is that operators are slow and clunky, and switching to them is too stiff. Seems to be changed as they maintain momentum when switching, and it even looks like some of the new animation rigging is being added to address this. Another major complaint is that focus is only about operators, when there are passives the affect warframes, and some that affect Warframe and Operator. 

The major issue with these complaints is that they are based on current operators when there is enough to prove that the new system should be more polished and probably worth a shot. I'm not saying hold your tongue until the changes come. It's ok to have concerns and to voice them. I'm saying that jumping to conclusions and calling something bad without even trying it is petty and pointless. It's like a child that will not eat anything new because they know it's icky.

Have concerns, have doubts, but approach it with tact and reason. Saying "screw you" only makes you less sympathetic and automatically shuts down your argument. 

THANK YOU.

This is what people seem to be willfully ignoring, that many of the exact mechanical issues they have are being and have been addressed, not to mention that the method of argument tends to be laughably poor.

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Vox_Preliator said:

THANK YOU.

This is what people seem to be willfully ignoring, that many of the exact mechanical issues they have are being and have been addressed, not to mention that the method of argument tends to be laughably poor.

As I have already pointed out, it doesn't matter if Focus 2.0 fixes all of the issues with Operator gameplay if getting to the point where you can access those fixes will take months of daily maximum grind. Operators suck now. It would be nice if Focus 2.0 fixed at least some of that right off the bat. Otherwise, it's like a game developer making you grind for bugfixes.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

7 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

So does that mean you won't participate in Eidolon fights at all or you won't pull your weight with your kiddo when your team needs it?

That's what it means for me. Well, the first part -- I just won't do the Eidolon fights. PoE will be a place to go fishing, then I'll bail at nightfall (or whenever it's supposed to get dangerous and Operator-required). 

[Vox_Preliator]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

As I have already pointed out, it doesn't matter if Focus 2.0 fixes all of the issues with Operator gameplay if getting to the point where you can access those fixes will take months of daily maximum grind. Operators suck now. It would be nice if Focus 2.0 fixed at least some of that right off the bat. Otherwise, it's like a game developer making you grind for bugfixes.

Are you suggesting that things like smooth switching between Frame and Operator will somehow be locked behind a grindwall?  Because I was talking about things like that, the most common issue tends to be that the Operator is clunky to use, which looks like it'll be mostly fixed.

[BlackCoMerc]

Why is this so hard for DE to understand. Though I never like to claim to speak for any kind of silent majority, I feel more than a little safe saying a great, great many players - probably the majority - not only do not like the operators. They genuinely despise them. 

Clunky animations. Overlong transitions. Boring, slow movement. Too much vulnerability. Lack of loadouts, abilities and play styles. They are everything we came to Warframe to get away from.

Let that sink in. In fact, it bears repeating: Operators represent everything we came to Warframe TO GET AWAY FROM in other games. And yet, here they are - a feature that makes Warframe feel like every other plodding, slow paced third person game. At perhaps the worst possible time for it. 

Now I know some will say "But its getting fixed" or "its gonna get better."

Only one chance to make a first impression. And DE squandered that on boring game play, uncharacteristically shoddy animation work (in a game that normally has top notch animations) and some of the worst voice lines and voice acting in modern gaming. The introduction of the Operator was so awful that frankly, it doesnt DESERVE another chance.

But its getting one anyway. Just like Archwing. Just like Nullifiers. Both of which are probably designed by the high ranking individual who cannot accept that their other ideas arent fit for public consumption, either. Despite that fact being blatantly obvious.

And as for "It will be fixed" and "Everything will get better" that is a ridiculous position to have to take for a game going on 3-4 years old. This isnt Beta any longer. (And no, I dont care what the EULA claims, seeing as how that was ADDED BACK INTO IT AFTER BEING REMOVED). The game has a full cash shop, is 3 years old or older and its time to drop the Beta defense. Mechanics need to be polished and finished BEFORE introduction. Features need to be COMPLETED before you plop them into the game and ask your audience to wait literal years before you even make them fit for purpose. 

Its no wonder people dont like the operators. In the state in which they were introduced, theres literally nothing about them to like. 

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Vox_Preliator said:

Are you suggesting that things like smooth switching between Frame and Operator will somehow be locked behind a grindwall?  Because I was talking about things like that, the most common issue tends to be that the Operator is clunky to use, which looks like it'll be mostly fixed.

That at least is encouraging, yes. Beyond that, I was referring to their glacially slow movement (there's a Passive for that, it costs three million Focus), their tiny health pools (there's a Passive for that, it costs three million Focus), their lack of health regeneration (there's a Passive for that, it costs three million Focus), their abysmal energy economy (there are two Passives for that, each costs three million Focus), their lack of any kind of armour or protection (there's a Passive for that, it costs three million Focus)...

 

It's bit rich to take onboard a year's worth of feedback and basically say "We've listened, and we've fixed it all! You can have the fixes by grinding your daily Focus maximum every day for six months!"