Conclave always empty... Whats is missing?

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 1 minute, krc473 a dit :

• Floods of players quit the game because DE decided to lock PvE content behind Conclave and PvP. No one gets Warframe for its PvP. If DE start putting genuinely useful stuff behind a PvP grindwall, they will lose far more players than if they do not touch conclave.

How about having some common sence and I don't know, players realising that maybe they could ask the Conclave veterans for some training sessions? I mean do you renember how many times you would have to tell a noobie where to go to unlock a planet and how to do stuff in general before? Hek it still happens now!

il y a 6 minutes, krc473 a dit :

I do not play Conclave because DE decided to balance it. It is not the Warframe I want to play. I like feeling like shooting something has an effect. If my gun can one hit level 100 enemies, but not a player, I am not interested. 

And if everything had the exact same stats as in PvE, Conclave would be even deader. I know, seems impossible right?

[Heckzu]

2 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Ergo, conclave is objectively bad by majority consensus.

You mean 'subjectively'.

Majority consensus isn't always correct.

 

The biggest issue with Conclave is lack of matchmaking. Weapons and warframes are overall very well balanced. But there is huge variation in player capabilities.

It's a catch 22- there's no matchmaking because there aren't enough players to implement it without hour long queues, but there aren't enough players because players often quit after facing someone much better than them and then blame the game for their own faults.

[AlphaPHENIX]

@PR1D3 

You, 

[MystMan]

32 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

This excuse is getting old, at least add a better reason.

Also cough regular Arcanes (as in ones from before PoE) are locked behind Trials (most call these Raids) cough Nobody is complaining about that cough Cause they are still tradable and even then you don't need really them cough

The fear of having pve content locked behind pvp content exists because in other hybrid pve/pvp games, this content tended to be quite powerful. More powerful than what the pve players could ever possess. The excuse behind this terrible design choice was usually "pvp players take more risks fighting each other so they get better gear".  This still doesn't take away the fact that the pve players would always lack behind with weaker gear at pve endgame, being at an unfair disadvantage. 

And "trading" is not a good solution. It creates a monopoly that the pvp players will control and they'll ask for a lot of money for these items. Some players want the conclave mods to be useable in PVE mode. Not gonna happen because of balancing issues. And even then, I count 120+ conclave mods. Nobody in their right mind will pay thousands of plat to get all those mods. So it's good that conclave is completely separate from the main game.

It is also fortunate that the trial arcanes offer a minimal advantage, but what if people didn't complain and DE went further and introduced even more powerful arcanes behind a game mode very few liked? You'll create a big gap of haves and have-nots. Hence why people complain, to stop the possibility of something from growing out of control and made worse.

Archwing also had this problem, those who hated it or weren't good at it, were always lacking in AW mods, making their AW gear weak. Farming those mods was hard enough as it is after a couple of updates when AW content was shrunk. (During AW introduction years ago, the mods were easily farmable and we had more AW nodes on the star chart). It makes sense to me why AW mods are such common drops in POE, to make them much more accessible for new players.

I play trials everyday and I love Archwing and am very good at these game modes. I play them because I like their core gameplay, not for their reward. Yet I still am on the side of those who say it's a bad idea to lock as many content as possible behind game modes hated by the majority. Some people outright buy Atlas/Limbo with plat to bypass their quests because of the Archwing content, if they can't find other players to taxi them through it.

So if Conclave was ever to take off as a successful game mode, it should've made people want to play it for its core gameplay, its proper functioning and accessibility in the first place all by itself. Not for rewards, that is never the main reason a game is fun, just a secondary reason.

Edited November 12, 2017 by MystMan

[Lion]

16 minutes ago, StinkyPygmy said:

Feel like you took "everybody" way too literally. In anycase, I believe the point he was making is that, yes, a vast amount of the community hate arcanes being locked behind trials and complain frequently. Before that, the point was that something that is objectively true is not an excuse. Collectively, it is true that most of the playerbase feel conclave is horrible, hence the low dedicated playerbase for it. Ergo, conclave is objectively bad by majority consensus.

Perfectly explained what I meant, thank you 

[krc473]

1 minute ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

How about having some common sence and I don't know, players realising that maybe they could ask the Conclave veterans for some training sessions?

Even if someone trains me on Conclave for 1 month, it does not change anything. I am not bad at conclave, I can win on public games (funny right, getting a public game) without too much hassle. 

This does not change the root issue. People simply do not like Conclave. No amount of training and forcing people to do it will change that. If everyone is fantastic at it, then we are basically back to where we are. We have everyone fantastic, with a handful of exceptional people. The exceptional people will slaughter the fantastic people, ruining it for them.

5 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

I mean do you renember how many times you would have to tell a noobie where to go to unlock a planet and how to do stuff in general before? Hek it still happens now!

There is basically not a day I play where someone does not ask "how do I get to X planet". 

5 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

And if everything had the exact same stats as in PvE, Conclave would be even deader. I know, seems impossible right?

To me, having everything balance to PvE levels would be more enjoyable for Conclave. If everyone can one hit, then there is a challenge. I certainly played it more on the old system. Because it was enjoyable for me. I did not mind getting completely decimated. Because you go away and remod your gear, then you get to slaughter everything.

DE has not executed the new iteration of Conclave very well in my opinion. To the point I do not think it is salvageable. My main issues:

• Balancing. This would not be an issue, if we had decent conclave mods.
• Conclave mods. I have found very few of these that are any good (for my play style)
• Constant changes. DE tends to frequently make changes to weapons and frames in conclave. This has some ability to disrupt it. Because, my gear today may not be the same tomorrow. They really need to balance it once. Or have a balance pass every 6 months. I can accept that changing a weapon might be required if it is completely out of touch with the rest.
• That silly recruit conditioning thing. This has been discussed elsewhere. Basically, people do not rank up, and stay infinitely in it.
• Reason to do it. The daily/weekly missions are not fun. The prizes are okay (not great). And mods are awarded based on RNG, which means no mods have to be awarded at all. I am not looking at locking PvE stuff behind conclave, because this is not a solution. Even if I could get interesting weapon cosmetics for playing, I would be more interested. Yes, some people would be annoyed, but its just a skin.

[abudakk]

Conclave is one of the most skill required pvp out there. I always had that competitive spirit when it comes to pvp games. No other game will get your heart pumping the way conclave does once you're facing down the real pros. Most of people who say its bad are a bunch of noobs who are either afraid to learn or simply cant get used to way it works because its completely different from co-op warframe. And at the end of the day you also have many guys just spreading the conclave hatred because they just heard others talking S#&$ about it.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

The fear of having pve content locked behind pvp content exists because in other hybrid pve/pvp games, this content tended to be quite powerful. More powerful than what the pve players could ever possess. The excuse behind this terrible design choice was usually "pvp players take more risks fighting each other so they get better gear".  This still doesn't take away the fact that the pve players would always lack behind with weaker gear at pve endgame, being at an unfair disadvantage. 

DE makes power creap weapons all the time, preaty much to delay a fix on armour scaling. Renember when Sancti Tigris was the best shotgun? Well now it's the Tigris Prime, nope wait, it's the Arca Plasmor, ya that's what the cool kids use these days right?

My point is, even if that does happen, it won't be a problem that lasts long and DE will certainly also learn not to repeat it.

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

And "trading" is not a good solution. It creates a monopoly that the pvp players will control and they'll ask for a lot of money for these items.

You clearly don't know that so far the Conclave community has some of the nicest people in Warframe.

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

Some players want the conclave mods to be useable in PVE mode.

Got no idea what you are talking about...

Révélation

Not one...

 

 

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

And even then, I count 120+ conclave mods. Nobody in their right mind will pay thousands of plat to get all those mods.

Many of said modes don't even have a slight hint of use in PvE, therfore won't be added to PvE, and many are simple niche things like letting Mesa roll while in Peacemaker for a bit of energy...ya, that's totally worth thousands of plat and Conclave players definitely won't sell them for any lower, and people would certainly buy them at that prize, perhaps even give a little extra to the trader on their behalf...surely such events would happen, no doubt. 

Révélation

Are you detecting the sarcasm yet?

 

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

It is also fortunate that the trial arcanes offer a minimal advantage, but what if people didn't complain and DE went further and introduced even more powerful arcanes behind a game mode very few liked? You'll create a big gap of haves and have-nots. Hence why people complain, to stop the possibility of something from growing out of control and made worse.

And adding syndicate weapons to Conclave that are no stronger then say the Astilla, Zakti and Dakra Prime would cause a problem how?

il y a 34 minutes, MystMan a dit :

So if Conclave was ever to take off as a successful game mode, it should've made people want to play it for its core gameplay, its proper functioning and accessibility in the first place all by itself. Not for rewards, that is never the main reason a game is fun, just a secondary reason.

At long last we can agree on something. Finally a reasonable pearson to talk to on the topic of Conclave!

il y a 31 minutes, krc473 a dit :

This does not change the root issue. People simply do not like Conclave. No amount of training and forcing people to do it will change that.

Then why don't we just do the obvious thing and try to fix what people don't like about Conclave?

il y a 31 minutes, krc473 a dit :

To me, having everything balance to PvE levels would be more enjoyable for Conclave.

I certainly played it more on the old system. Because it was enjoyable for me. I did not mind getting completely decimated. Because you go away and remod your gear, then you get to slaughter everything.

Ok hold it.

il y a 31 minutes, krc473 a dit :

If everyone can one hit, then there is a challenge.

Are you implying that hitting a target which moves at high speed isn't a challenge?

il y a 14 minutes, Rheddie a dit :

Conclave is one of the most skill required pvp out there. I always had that competitive spirit when it comes to pvp games. No other game will get your heart pumping the way conclave does once you're facing down the real pros. Most of people who say its bad are a bunch of noobs who are either afraid to learn or simply cant get used to way it works because its completely different from co-op warframe. And at the end of the day you also have many guys just spreading the conclave hatred because they just heard others talking S#&$ about it.

Though all of this is true, I would appreciate you saying it a bit more kindly. We are trying to uphold our unspoken reputation here as ''nicest part of the community'' (which is ironic sence PvP games usually are filled with toxic players).

Edited November 12, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[MystMan]

6 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

You clearly don't know that so far the Conclave community has some of the nicest people in Warframe.

...ehhhh I don't find it realistic to think that you can speak on behalf of an entire community that is spread across the globe in different time zones who speak different languages. You only know the people you have encountered in your time zone / during your playtime. That is a niche group within an already small % of the player base.
Case in point, that last post above filled with arrogance, vitriol and simply wrong information. There are way too many edgy people like that in competitive gaming everywhere, which only contribute to the stigma that pvp unfortunately has to put up with.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 1 minute, MystMan a dit :

...ehhhh I don't find it realistic to think that you can speak on behalf of an entire community that is spread across the globe in different time zones who speak different languages. You only know the people you have encountered in your time zone / during your playtime. That is a niche group within an already small % of the player base.

Allright, the ones on the Europe servers at least. Happy now?

il y a 2 minutes, MystMan a dit :

There are way too many edgy people like that in competitive gaming everywhere

I never said I am not edgy because I am, but I never said I am competive either. PvP (to me) is just a way to express some unharmful (99.99% of the time) violence with friends (or without) while having fun and improoving your skills.

il y a 7 minutes, MystMan a dit :

Case in point, that last post above filled with arrogance, vitriol and simply wrong information.

If I do sound like that fair enough, I am not trying to though. I just want a better future for a wrongly accused mode in a beautiful game, that hasn't even fully blossomed.

[MystMan]

Just now, AlphaPHENIX said:

If I do sound like that fair enough, I am not trying to though. I just want a better future for a wrongly accused mode in a beautiful game, that hasn't even fully blossomed.

Woha woha.  I wasn't talking about you. I didn't refresh my browser when I posted, your reply wasn't there yet.  I was referring to Rhedie's post. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 2 minutes, MystMan a dit :

Woha woha.  I wasn't talking about you. I didn't refresh my browser when I posted, your reply wasn't there yet.  I was referring to Rhedie's post. 

Then why did you quote me? Wait, how did you quote me if the post wasn't there yet?

Oh, we have the same Kuria Glyph...ya don't worry, I am used to that happening.

Edited November 12, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[MystMan]

9 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

Then why did you quote me? Wait, how did you quote me if the post wasn't there yet?

Good question.  How did I do that?  I could've sworn your post wasn't there yet. I am clearly tired and need to go to bed 
Edit: I was using multiple browser tabs, got them mixed up. 

Anyways, I believe you when you say that in Europe the conclave players are nice. But North America has a much larger presence and who you meet there is a hit-or-miss depending on the time one logs on. (if they can find a lobby at all).

Edited November 12, 2017 by MystMan

[Hypernaut1]

I think conclave needs warframe MOBA makeover. Instead of just fighting other warframes, we should be fighting mobs with warframes acting as heroes. 

[AlphaPHENIX]

Il y a 10 heures, MystMan a dit :

Good question.  How did I do that?  I could've sworn your post wasn't there yet. I am clearly tired and need to go to bed 

Have a nice a nap, I shall be going to dream land as well actually.

Goodbye for tonight. 

Il y a 10 heures, Hypernaut1 a dit :

I think conclave needs warframe MOBA makeover. Instead of just fighting other warframes, we should be fighting mobs with warframes acting as heroes. 

That is gona need to be a separate game by then...but it might work if DE had the time to make it?

Edited November 13, 2017 by AlphaPHENIX

[Jago47]

An interesting thing is that people complain that there are no event leaderbords for Operation Plague Star (because they want somekind of competition)
,but they dont like conclave (but its also a place for competitive gameplay).

Also De removed fun modes like Opticor only free for all or Quick Steel (nikanas and hikou) free for all or the Snowball Showdown.
Or i have no clue how to access them.

Lunaro still has x2 conlave standing for challenges so all other modes are worse for maxing your standing.

There are no syndicate weapons for conlave (De talked a long time ago that they wanted to add the lunaro thingy + the Ball as a melee, which would be a cool weapon as a syndicate weapon)

When Stances and other conlave only mods would be useable for PvE some players woud have an incentive to play Conclave.

So my mainpoint in a sentence:
Conlave is completly optional and only rewards you with some skins for some Weapons (mostly for older Weapons) and most of the Mods are not useable for PvE (i want the Stances so bad for PvE). 

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, AlphaPHENIX said:

That is gona need to be a separate game by then...but it might work if DE had the time to make it?

Would it? I guess they can't just create a map with lanes and toss some team mobs in? I don't really play MOBAs, so I don't know the complexities of them.

[Corvid]

8 minutes ago, Jago47 said:

An interesting thing is that people complain that there are no event leaderbords for Operation Plague Star (because they want somekind of competition)
,but they dont like conclave (but its also a place for competitive gameplay).

It's the difference between direct and indirect competition.

 

9 minutes ago, Jago47 said:

(i want the Stances so bad for PvE).

From what I can tell, they're just watered-down versions of the PvE stances. Same combos and everything.

[AlphaPHENIX]

il y a 5 minutes, Jago47 a dit :

An interesting thing is that people complain that there are no event leaderbords for Operation Plague Star (because they want somekind of competition)
,but they dont like conclave (but its also a place for competitive gameplay).

Ya, it does't make sence at all...

il y a 5 minutes, Jago47 a dit :

Also De removed fun modes like Opticor only free for all or Quick Steel (nikanas and hikou) free for all or the Snowball Showdown.
Or i have no clue how to access them.

Those were sadly time limeted and in the case of Quick Steel, events. Maybe they will come back, maybe they won't, we don't know.

il y a 5 minutes, Jago47 a dit :

Lunaro still has x2 conlave standing for challenges so all other modes are worse for maxing your standing.

Not true at all, for maximum gain of Conclave Standing you need to play all the modes and complete their challenges...mainly for the weekly missions, but it's still more efficient.

il y a 7 minutes, Jago47 a dit :

There are no syndicate weapons for conlave (De talked a long time ago that they wanted to add the lunaro thingy + the Ball as a melee, which would be a cool weapon as a syndicate weapon)

Ya and then they also said they gave up on this for some reason, shame.

il y a 8 minutes, Jago47 a dit :

When Stances and other conlave only mods would be useable for PvE some players woud have an incentive to play Conclave.

If I may add, said stances are really just made of combos from already existing stances at the time, but with said combos being in diffrent order and lenght. It's not like they will break the game by being made usable in PvE and the same goes for other Conclave mods, infact some are gona need a buff just for PvE (which won't take effect in PvP).

il y a 8 minutes, Hypernaut1 a dit :

Would it? I guess they can't just create a map with lanes and toss some team mobs in? I don't really play MOBAs, so I don't know the complexities of them.

Well as someone who has played MOBAs (never got into ranked stuff, but still have a good amount of experiance), they are more complex then they look, mainly because of items and META stuff. Also, MOBA games have clearly set classes (Tank, ADC, Support, Jungle and ect.) meanwhile Warframes can be assigned a role, sure...but a lot more vaguely in terms of an actual class sence even Trinity can play as a Damage Dealer/Tank. For example, Excalibur is supposed to decently stun a lot of enemies with Radial Blind and do a lot of damage, right? Wrong, look at this.

Révélation

That's a support ability mate...exclusive to Conclave...DE,why you no let me play Excalibur as a healer in PvE?

 

[Lanadra]

It's not that there isn't any loot locked behind it to lure players in. It's that Conclave is unwanted and unenjoyable, aside from a small niche following, the vast majority of us don't like it. If Conclave was something people enjoyed, wanted to play and wanted as part of Warframe, there wouldn't be a need to lock any gear behind it's gates in the first place.

The fact that you're even asking them to do exactly that goes to show that even you realize nobody wants to play it otherwise.

[DatDarkOne]

2 hours ago, PR1D3 said:

The high learning curve does play a part. You have to get used to a system where movement importance just got raised even higher.

The shift from getting power from mods to getting power from being mechanically good is what drives people off (which is hilarious in a certain perspective that i could go on and on about XD). The neat thing about PVP is that many weapons people insult and call mastery fodder are actually viable in PVP due to the structure of the damage tables and frame suitability. It has old school arena shooter elements, the whole zooming around at high speeds, shooting constantly plus the consideration of the whole IPS damage spread. In PVP you have to use all weapons to be effective, be a better shot, and/or get super creative with some of the pvp mods. 

"How did that guy beat me when I'm using a weapon that is OP in PVE and he's using Mastery Fodder weapons?"

Cause he's actually moving and shooting, and he's using one thats heavy in impact to break your sheilds and one thats heavy in puncture (or slash depends on frame) to kill you.

Luckily I'm max rank and me and my clan mates do play it when we got an opportunity. Im close to getting that conclaive syndana. After that I'm probably going to finish up the sets and get the kraken skin as well. Conclaive has some neat treats, the skins are really nice. Especially on some of the grineer weapons. It makes them look a lot sleeker and less dirty. I love the way how my Daikyu looks now with it's conclaive skin. 

Its just that people don't want to be faced with a reality that they suck at the game, while still complaining about not having a challenge. At times there are moments where deaths feel unfair, until you asked yourself how long were you standing still? Was it more than 5 secs? Cause if you stand still for that long in any pvp game you're going to get #*($%%@.

I just love this post.  I usually don't comment on any conclave related topics, but this one post I like alot.  

That said, my reasons for not playing conclave are extremely simple.  I just don't like any PvP.  Well there is one exception to that which is Ace Combat.  But that's the only one outside of Soul Calibur 2.  

[(PSN)psycofang]

2 hours ago, Heckzu said:

You mean 'subjectively'.

Majority consensus isn't always correct.

Theres a big problem with this community and their opinions = fact.

Pvp is not a bad mode, it is very fun and rewarding imo because it puts the breaks on your usual "im op 1 shotting level 100 heavies and im unkillable" spree of 0 consequence in WF pve.

Pvp requires you actually learn the weapon youre holding instead of modding them to the point they trivialize contentand how to be mobile and aim instead of mashing unrestricted powers for easy kill set ups or the equivalent of pausing the game.

A majority of players across all platforms though, have proven they dont like competition and will actively avoid it as much as possible as proven through numerous mediums that allow both pve and pvp.

Some people experience symptoms of nervousness and performance anxiety when they become aware they are fighting a human.

Others just dont like pvp.

Others say they dont without trying it out at all to come to an objective conclusion.

Theres nothing you can do in this situation to incite pvp unless you make the game pvp centric.

If you put pve rewards in pvp we'll end up with pve players flooding pvp, afking, dragging their team down by afking and then coming to the forums to voice their woes of being "forced" to pvp.

Anything below a tangible usable reward and it doesnt draw outsiders, if it is a usable reward nonpvpers complain.

Or youll end up like me and get yelled at over mic by non pvpers for gaining a lead in kills.

Theres no winning here.

Pvp is in the same boat as Raiding is on a collective scale.

Edited November 13, 2017 by (PS4)psycofang

[(PSN)robotwars7]

sorry, but conclave is really just a tacked-on mode to appease the competitive crowd. the Conclave skins for weapons are quite nice, but for mpeople like myself who dislike PvP they aren't worth going into conclave for. Warframe is a PvE game first and foremost, and you just know there'd be a ton of salt if something good and/or powerful was locked behind PvP. it just wouldn't be worth the uproar.

they tried giving us a chance at PvP rewards with Lunaro, and like so many new additions to Warframe we played it for 5 mins, and never touched it again. and because of that, DE has never gone back to add things to it.

[(PSN)awesomelaw128]

the servers are awful. plain and simple 9 times out of 10 the lag makes conclave unplayable and im not playing it untill dedicated servers come to console

[ShogunGunshow]

Putting PvE mods in PvP would be a great way to get people to hate DE really fast.