Lenz Feedback

[Yperkeimenos]

Hi all, I've recently acquired and tested Lenz ,so this is my feedback. The weapon itself is great, it has a nice are of effect , high damage and when equipped with hunter munitions it becomes quite good at dealing with high level content. After testing it in both the Simulacrum and actual missions, it fairs quite well against all factions and is good against the Grineer who die because of the slash procs more than the actual damage of the weapon itself. It has a very small ammo pool and magazine size, with a long draw time but these things are acceptable balancing factors. However the single greatest fun killing fact is that if you make even the slightest miscalculation , it's game over, you're dead. If you get caught in the initial blast the cold proc slows you down making it difficult to avoid the secondary blast which of course delivers the killing blow. The funny thing is that if the projectile hits another Tenno, there is no blast, however you still get the cold proc and in the case of Hunter munitions the slash proc as well. So i'd like to propose that,at least, if the arrow hits another player and you happen to be nearby, don't have it cripple you with cold and other status effects. Have it only do so when the actual initial blast goes off.

Edit : The original title was : "Lenz the best way to kill yourself", but found it to be a bit too dramatic and changed it to the current one.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[duhadventure]

6 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

Hi all, I've recently acquired and tested Lenz ,so this is my feedback. The weapon itself is great, it has a nice are of effect , high damage and when equipped with hunter munitions it becomes quite good at dealing with high level content. After testing it in both the Simulacrum and actual missions, it fairs quite well against all factions and is good against the Grineer who die because of the slash procs more than the actual damage of the weapon itself. It has a very small ammo pool and magazine size, with a long draw time but these things are acceptable balancing factors. However the single greatest fun killing fact is that if you make even the slightest miscalculation , it's game over, you're dead. If you get caught in the initial blast the cold proc slows you down making it difficult to avoid the secondary blast which of course delivers the killing blow. The funny thing is that if the projectile hits another Tenno, there is no blast, however you still get the cold proc and in the case of Hunter munitions the slash proc as well. So i'd like to propose that,at least, if the arrow hits another player and you happen to be nearby, don't have it cripple you with cold and other status effects. Have it only do so when the actual initial blast goes off.

Its actually the hardest self damage weapon to kill yourself with (besides Corinth) assuming you are using it correctly.

[Yperkeimenos]

10 minutes ago, duhadventure said:

Its actually the hardest self damage weapon to kill yourself with (besides Corinth) assuming you are using it correctly.

Don't know about that, but to be honest more than once i ended up inflicting my self with various status effects, simply because a teammate got in the way while i was firing. The weapon produces no blast if the arrow hits another player,but you get the status effects anyway. So what i'm proposing is for the status self procs to happen only when an actual blast occurs. I don't know if this is intentional or not but it's annoying.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[(XBOX)MerlyBR]

get over it 

[motorfirebox]

Best way to use the Lenz: don't be standing on the ground when you fire it. If you're aimgliding 20 feet in the air, you're a lot less likely to have a teammate suddenly pass in front of you.

With enough care and aerobatics, you can get to where the only time the Lenz kills you is when you make a mistake yourself, without any help from anybody. I don't think it needs to be changed.

[Yperkeimenos]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)MerlyBR said:

get over it 

Very helpful insight, thank you.I think it's called the Weapons Feedback section for a reason.

[Tsardova]

lenz in a nutshell.

[Syln]

Plain of eidolon is DE way to "fix" self damage weapon issue, i guess they overdid it :3

[Yperkeimenos]

8 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Best way to use the Lenz: don't be standing on the ground when you fire it. If you're aimgliding 20 feet in the air, you're a lot less likely to have a teammate suddenly pass in front of you.

With enough care and aerobatics, you can get to where the only time the Lenz kills you is when you make a mistake yourself, without any help from anybody. I don't think it needs to be changed.

I don't see why DE shouldn't fix self procs. It would add a little bit quality of life for Lenz users and to be honest , self inflicted status effects when there is no blast, sound more like an unintentional oversight rather than an actual game mechanic.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[Airwolfen]

Running munitions is your own choice though. The first hit is pretty harmless without it. So is the danger of it proccing on self harm.

In the end the other explosive weapons are way worse. No warning like the lenz. Just instant death.

I really like using the lenz. and I have not hurt myself in ages.

[Yperkeimenos]

5 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

Running munitions is your own choice though. The first hit is pretty harmless without it. So is the danger of it proccing on self harm.

In the end the other explosive weapons are way worse. No warning like the lenz. Just instant death.

I really like using the lenz. and I have not hurt myself in ages.

Yes ok fine,but why should status effects proc without a blast, when an arrow hits a team mate.

Edit: I'm not asking for some game breaking fix here.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

4 minutes ago, Yperkeimenos said:

I don't see why DE shouldn't fix self procs. It would add a little bit quality of life for Lenz users and to be honest , self inflicted status effects when there is no blast, sound more like an unintentional oversight rather than an actual game mechanic.

It's intended. They didn't want to completely remove the self-damage weapon hazard. I might be wrong about this, but if memory serves: originally shooting a teammate would trigger the blast. They patched it so that allies trigger the AOE proc instead.

If you accidentally proc yourself, you can use operator CC/invis to wait it out. But like motorfirebox said, getting some air helps to avoid accidental self-injury with launchers in general.

[Yperkeimenos]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)BlitzKeir said:

It's intended. They didn't want to completely remove the self-damage weapon hazard. I might be wrong about this, but if memory serves: originally shooting a teammate would trigger the blast. They patched it so that allies trigger the AOE proc instead.

If you accidentally proc yourself, you can use operator CC/invis to wait it out. But like motorfirebox said, getting some air helps to avoid accidental self-injury with launchers in general.

Well even if it's intended , it is still annoying,at least to me and i suspect other players as well, so changing it the way i proposed , would make for a smoother game play.

[Zsword]

Considering how powerful the Lenz is as is, having some drawbacks is not a huge deal, especially ones that are rather easily mitigated through some proper forethought and maneuvering. I think the fact that the Lenz has a strong penalty for a bad shot, combined with it's small ammo pool and innate ammo mutation forcing you to be 'in' the fight at least a little, combined with it's extremely powerful base stats and ensnaring 1-2 combo is a fine balance for how it handles. It still functions well to fantastic in close quarters combat once you get past the mentality of shooting 'at' your target, and instead aiming at a wall or ceiling close enough to them to trap them in the blast, especially with large crowds running at a doorway.

Secondaries also exist for a reason, and the Lenz very polarizing nature means you should have one that properly fills the hole in your kit, particularly close range crowd control, and there are plenty of potent options that compliment the Lenz wonderfully; the Sonicor, Pyranha, Akstilletos, you'd even be surprised at how well the Stubba, Arca Scisco, or the various throwing knives can compliment it.

I do think it 's a bit odd that the cold AoE isn't visible when it hits an ally, even if they don't want you say 'shooting a friendly to carry the bomb to the crowd', keeping the pulse out to show what is freezing you would be far more intuitive.

[taiiat]

8 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

don't have it cripple you with cold and other status effects. Have it only do so when the actual initial blast goes off.

but, the Initial Blast IS going off. 
Lenz has a two stage Explosion.

just shoot where you intend to hit, it's an Explosive Weapon. it's hard to have any complaints about anything Lenz does when it deals the highest Damage in the game. you oneshot everything you point it at except for Grineer Ships since the Base Damage is resisted and no Headshots - it's already very well capable of trivializing whatever your Enemies are, so just shoot it at them instead of at yourself.

Edited December 27, 2017 by taiiat

[Jarriaga]

13 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

if you make even the slightest miscalculation , it's game over, you're dead. If you get caught in the initial blast the cold proc slows you down making it difficult to avoid the secondary blast which of course delivers the killing blow

Enter operator mode, wait for explosion, return to frame. Problem solved.

[Yperkeimenos]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

Enter operator mode, wait for explosion, return to frame. Problem solved.

Hmm, a very clever idea,hadn't thought of that. However it seems like a band aid at best. Sometimes ,due to lag, the operator won't come out in time and it's a fuss having to do this repeatedly. In reality it seems to me that it's best for DE to have another look , at some point, at the Lenz and how its status procs interact with the players.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

Helpful tip: If you're prone to suicidal gameplay, quickly use Transference :p

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

17 hours ago, (Xbox One)MerlyBR said:

get over it 

You're so smart and detailed, you obviously went to college.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

Self damage is not the issue in the slightest. Be smart with your nuclear slingshot. The real issue is the d*mn near requirement of Vacum to keep the weapons use flowing. Would love to use my Kat or Doggo again but so long as Im in love with Lenz, Carrier4lyfe.

[ViolettaFoxx]

18 hours ago, (Xbox One)MerlyBR said:

get over it 

10/10 feedback, great opinions terrific criticisms and solution

 

thanks

[Yperkeimenos]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:04 AM, taiiat said:

but, the Initial Blast IS going off. 
Lenz has a two stage Explosion.

just shoot where you intend to hit, it's an Explosive Weapon. it's hard to have any complaints about anything Lenz does when it deals the highest Damage in the game. you oneshot everything you point it at except for Grineer Ships since the Base Damage is resisted and no Headshots - it's already very well capable of trivializing whatever your Enemies are, so just shoot it at them instead of at yourself.

There is no explosion if the arrow hits a team mate. However you still get the status proc , if you're near enough, as if the actual blast did occur.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

9 hours ago, Yperkeimenos said:

There is no explosion if the arrow hits a team mate. However you still get the status proc , if you're near enough, as if the actual blast did occur.

You'll get the cold/slow proc so long as your in the radius of the blast regardless of what you hit. However yes, allies (pc and npc) and cryopods (if thats still a thing) will ONLY proc the slow/cold status, but no damage at all.

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2017. 12. 27. at 9:52 AM, duhadventure said:

Its actually the hardest self damage weapon to kill yourself with (besides Corinth) assuming you are using it correctly.

Actually the second hard self damage weapon to kill yourself, because the hardest one is Penta with Tether Grenade - the grenade is quite visible, as well as not bounce at all after it contacts something, so you can clearly figure out where it is.

 

Still, it is not so difficult to avoid kill yourself when using Lenz, for you have some time before the main blast. Although you will have cold proc so you need to hurry.

 

Theorically, if you have Operator then you may switch to the operator to avoid the fire too if you have not much time or the frame is not able to get out of the area.

Edited December 30, 2017 by DroopingPuppy

[Viges]

Tonkor or Angstrum are much easier ways to kill yourself