Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[MystMan]

2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I'm saying that just because a system isn't completely unusable and burning to the ground, that doesn't mean it's fine. You effectively just sidestepped everything I said with "well, it doesn't bother me."

Well, I don't understand what standard you are aiming at that you define as "fine".  What do you think is fine?   You point out that many things are very flawed or terrible and such but what is acceptable to you then? You didn't mention solutions or alternatives that you think would be "fine". 
You have pointed out things in my posts that you agree are "useful" and "functional"  but none are still "fine". 

I hope that perfection is not your idea of "fine".  That's an unrealistic expectation.

For me, if the core of a game is "functional", "useful" and "rewarding", then it's already halfway there to be an ok game in my book despite of whatever flaws it likely has.
If my standard was set to "The most perfect game", whatever that is, then I would dislike 99% of all videogames out there.

[DiabolusUrsus]

32 minutes ago, MystMan said:

Well, I don't understand what standard you are aiming at that you define as "fine". 

Don't get side-tracked. My point is that looking down your nose at people who call out flaws as simply complainers resisting change is unwarranted.

Even if they can't provide an immediate solution, the fact of the matter is that there is a problem that requires solving, unless you can argue as to why a given complaint isn't valid.

32 minutes ago, MystMan said:

What do you think is fine?   You point out that many things are very flawed or terrible and such but what is acceptable to you then? You didn't mention solutions or alternatives that you think would be "fine". 
You have pointed out things in my posts that you agree are "useful" and "functional"  but none are still "fine". 

There is no set standard for "fine," only "better." "Fine" is whenever the problems listed are made small enough that they don't completely overpower the experience.

I happen to have solutions in mind for the problems listed, but those are topics for another thread.

32 minutes ago, MystMan said:

I hope that perfection is not your idea of "fine".  That's an unrealistic expectation.

Hardly. True perfection is obviously unattainable, but the whole point of collecting feedback is to work toward it. Not "perfect," but "as close as we can get."

Baby steps along that path are acceptable; I'm not implying that these are problems to be fixed overnight or in a single change.

32 minutes ago, MystMan said:

For me, if the core of a game is "functional", "useful" and "rewarding", then it's already halfway there to be an ok game in my book despite of whatever flaws it likely has.

If my standard was set to "The most perfect game", whatever that is, then I would dislike 99% of all videogames out there.

And that's great, for you, but remember that other players are not you, so don't make baseless assumptions about their ability or willingness to adapt to change while sweeping potentially valid grievances under the rug.

Functional and useful are fairly objective, but my idea of "rewarding" is probably very different from yours. Is either one invalid?

Please don't try to dismiss criticisms out of hand and disparage the critics just because it makes you feel better about yourself.

Edited January 10, 2018 by DiabolusUrsus

[Educated_Beast]

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Except...they DO replace the frame. Badly, I might add.

You CANNOT use BOTH Frames and Operator simultaneously. Can't be done. 

Ergo, any use of the Operator's slow, clunky, cumbersome game play straight up replaces the sleek, fast, fluid Warframe game play.

Just because it does it unjustifiably poorly, doesn't mean it doesn't do it. And that's the problem in a nutshell.

I just gave 7 awesome abilities operators bring to table but you have made your mind up already.  Some passively affect warframes directly, some allow any frame to be used for certain missions (i.e. spy), others extreme speed across any map, safe receives, etc. 

 

It is not a Warframe, or a damage dealing beast.  I AM HAPPY IT IS NOT.   THAT WOULD SUCK!  

 

It is a utility tool you can be smart and use, or ignore and complain about in forums.  I've decided to invest and I find a creative use for my operator in every mission, even if it is just to be the first one at extraction.  I'm still exploring different builds to synergize with warframes abilities and continue to have fun.  

 

Operators are also faster than any frame except maybe a max range Nova.  Remove the idea it is meant to replace Warframe.  Last thing we need is some all powerful kids in every match.  I'm ok that they cannot bullet jump or parkor, etc.  They need to be weaker than frames.  

 

No, I want smart players to use utility tools as needed.

 

EDIT:. I am not saying they are perfect.  I do think there should be serious drawbacks to being "killed" in operator form.  There is certainly room for improvement, but some of you guys are making them out to be much worse than they are.  

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[owendawgx]

Story wise they're just some super angsty teenager and it is unbearable, gameplay wise they're clunky and serve no purpose outside of maybe Zenurik and Eidolons, which leads me to focus which is still mostly useless with like maybe 4-6 decent abilities among all the schools. Also, why would I want to play as a squishy, ineffective meatbag in a game with warframes? Only to supplement my warframe gameplay, which they still prove clunky and mostly ineffective at doing (again, at least half the focus nodes are a waste of time to use, let alone unlock).

Edited January 10, 2018 by owendawgx

[Educated_Beast]

16 minutes ago, owendawgx said:

Story wise they're just some super angsty teenager and it is unbearable, gameplay wise they're clunky and serve no purpose outside of maybe Zenurik and Eidolons, which leads me to focus which is still mostly useless with like maybe 4-6 decent abilities among all the schools. Also, why would I want to play as a squishy, ineffective meatbag in a game called warframe? I don't know. 

They have much more utility use than your giving credit for.  

 

- extreme speed across any map

- bring rhino to spy, who cares when you have operator

- revive safely without dying

- great passives on all the schools

- great synergies with some frames / builds; I've found a few and exploring more (frost + unarui, volt + zenurik with melee channel build, etc. etc.).

- great defense ability with unarui for team

- great get out of jail card when Warframe in trouble (pop out, allow health to heal with relics/shields restore, during that 1-3 seconds, disarm, reduce armor, reduce damage, (depends on school and skill chosen) etc. the mob, or just knock em down, pop in, then kill with frame)

 

We can do so much now and so many people ignore this and just complaining.  There are some well thought out relies and I'm not saying they are perfect.  

 

But to answer the OP, yes I like my operator.  I have found numerous methods to compliment and improve my game play I not only find fun, they also add a lot of depth to game play.

 

I do wish I could age them so they do not look like a punk kid.  I do wish I could remove thier dialog as it is childish and lame (they may have young bodies but shouldn't say things a 5-year old would).  But let's get the facts correct if we are to have honest discussion. 

 

Operators bring a ton of utility to table and that's good.  It's also good thier powers do not overshadow the Warframe, otherwise, why use warframe?  

 

My main complaints are cosmetic and I've fixed that with a closed mask and voices turned off.  

Edited January 10, 2018 by Educated_Beast

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Sorties suck. What is the point of making players "adapt" when the simplest solution is ALWAYS Loki/Trinity/Frost/Limbo?

Many Sortie missions are more efficiently completed NOT killing anything along the way. That's absurd!

This doesn't mean "completely broken," but they're far from ideal.

Rivens have not 1, not 2, not 3, but FOUR layers of RNG between players and weapons they want to use.

1: simply getting rewarded a Riven.

2: getting a Riven for the correct weapon type.

3: getting a Riven for the correct weapon.

4: getting a Riven with good stats, and no useless stats (like +flight speed akjagara; seriously, how hard is it to exclude meaningless stats?!)

Not only that, Riven dispositions are not updated frequently enough to ensure the dispositions are balanced.

They're supposedly implemented to make less popular weapons more attractive, but all they're really used for is further min-maxing of already-strong weapons because they are so freakishly annoying to acquire!

There is a reason why Rivens regularly go for 1k+ plat, and I don't think you can rationally argue that it's good for the game experience (though it's great for DE's pockets no contest).

Are these systems technically functional? Yeah, I don't think anyone will debate you on that. But to suggest that complaints about them are unwarranted or due only to player resistance to change is (IMO) disingenuous at best.

Agreed. The Sortie/Riven systems are a bad joke. Tedious, annoying and unrewarding.

[BlackCoMerc]

1 hour ago, MystMan said:

Well, I don't understand what standard you are aiming at that you define as "fine".  What do you think is fine?   You point out that many things are very flawed or terrible and such but what is acceptable to you then? You didn't mention solutions or alternatives that you think would be "fine". 
You have pointed out things in my posts that you agree are "useful" and "functional"  but none are still "fine". 

I hope that perfection is not your idea of "fine".  That's an unrealistic expectation.

For me, if the core of a game is "functional", "useful" and "rewarding", then it's already halfway there to be an ok game in my book despite of whatever flaws it likely has.
If my standard was set to "The most perfect game", whatever that is, then I would dislike 99% of all videogames out there.

But neither Operators, nor Sorties, are either useful or rewarding...

[NaoEthelia]

21 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Is having an instant invincibility button available at any moment really a good thing? And how often players really go to those high levels with current low-lvl gameplay? There's no incentive to even go to those far-off levels. Resources? Relics? Now tell me you don't have a stockpile of both.

What's this? You don't like a free invincibility button? Last I checked, Maiming Strike was a cheese meta that everyone enjoyed.

16 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Yeah it's great how the best things about Operator further invalidate non-tank frames. Want Stealth? Who needs Loki, now you have Operator?

Way to devalue stuff you SELL, DE.

Good. The frame metas for Spy needs to burn. More varieties for the game.

3 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

But neither Operators, nor Sorties, are either useful or rewarding...

Hear that? That's you dying to level 2000 eximuses while I revive someone and get away with it. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by NaoEthelia

[Twilight053]

19 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Or just use Harrow and avoid areas with nullies?

But on a more serious note due to how our systems work by the time you finish reviving your teammate your frame is already swarmed by enemies and while they do not attack it while you are in void mode they instantly shot at it when you return.

I wanted to point this out because it seems you forgot that high levels make the enemies react faster and aim better.

Or, players who get bored with Harrow can use other frames they enjoy and do a void revive. Don't get me wrong, Harrow is a nice frame but I find that Operators gives us less pressure to pick the specialized, meta frames. Sometimes, we just don't enjoy playing certain frames (in my case, Loki), and then I would decide to play what I want and let my kid do the Loki part.

Because Operators complement every other frames with stealth-invincibility, there's more freedom to pick frames that aren't as specialized as Harrow or Loki/Ivara/Limbo. Any frames with their operators will get at most 20 seconds of invisibility/invincibility at a crawling speed, after which, they're forced back on their frame. But it's not as if they outclass the meta frames: Octavia can still perma-invisibility and DPS/Utility, Ivara can still perma-invisibility and DPS, Loki can sitll perma-invisibilty and CC/Utility and Harrow/Limbo can still invincible and DPS. 

And that's a good design point. I don't want it gone.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Twilight053

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I actually like playing as the operator.

Definitely not all the time but the whole tag team thing is there imo.

Especially when Madurai's buffs give more physical and elemental damage which buffs my warframe and when I run out of ammo or need to shoot Stalker or need to shoot Vay Hek but brought the wrong gun for it, I can just operator mode them to death.

Edited January 11, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[MadnessBomber]

... I do. It's a completely different way to fight in the game that makes you slow down and focus more instead of slash bash dash crash. The weapons work pretty well. The little boosts your warframe gets are nice too. And it's just the beginning, sooner or later we'll get new ways to fight with the operators and basically have two completely different ways to do what we all love to do; murder Grineer quacks and Corpus jerks.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

Or, players who get bored with Harrow can use other frames they enjoy and do a void revive. Don't get me wrong, Harrow is a nice frame but I find that Operators gives us less pressure to pick the specialized, meta frames. Sometimes, we just don't enjoy playing certain frames (in my case, Loki), and then I would decide to play what I want and let my kid do the Loki part.

Because Operators complement every other frames with stealth-invincibility, there's more freedom to pick frames that aren't as specialized as Harrow or Loki/Ivara/Limbo. Any frames with their operators will get at most 20 seconds of invisibility/invincibility at a crawling speed, after which, they're forced back on their frame. But it's not as if they outclass the meta frames: Octavia can still perma-invisibility and DPS/Utility, Ivara can still perma-invisibility and DPS, Loki can sitll perma-invisibilty and CC/Utility and Harrow/Limbo can still invincible and DPS. 

And that's a good design point. I don't want it gone.

I too dont want it gone but i want to see operators doing something exclusive and unique.

Currently the only thing what fits the above is the invincible invisibility. Everything else is a less powerful but more clunky copy-paste warframe power.

What i wanted from focus 2.0 is to go on the set path and integrate the focus schools mentality and theme into the operators while also fixing problems.

For example Unairu was the stone school made for tanks and those who lack defenses. I imagined a upgrade to the basilisk abilities to be able to summon rock armor on ourselves and manipulate the ground as operators to create diverse defense spots.

We could have got 8 new skills per focus nodes along with atleast 8 passives. You can only choose 4 of your likings of the active skills so theres space for personalization and it would be bound to the same buttons as warframe powers. You enter the operator mode, do stuff till you run out of energy then return your frame.

The point is to make them equally useful as a team and not male them into a faction competing for more gameplay time.

With this much develoment time and continous feedback this is what i hoped for and not some watered down skillset combined with questionable combat capacity.

[ikkabotz]

On 1/9/2018 at 2:13 AM, Kyoresh said:

 Because its better for long range poke. 

But to your topic: I would like to have even MORE Operator play because I really enjoy their story.

Late to the party, but just wanted to say I'm on the other side of the coin. Please, PLEASE no more operator gameplay. .It's already annoying as is. .can't stand having to break tempo to exit my frame, slide dash to a good spot for aoe energy recharge, jump back into my Warframe, then stand still. .It's so bad! I have to do about four keys to execute this ability. .was so much better as a passive gain. .It's not challenging or fun to execute this move, it's just tedious and micro managey in the wrong kind of way

. .my own opinion, a lot of Warframe has moved into the "tedium" side of things with gameplay. .maybe we should consider revising existing element to improve tempo before considering more of anything else. .I understand a lot of people enjoy lore and new content. .but I'm the guy who loves the ACTION mechanics of the gameplay and feel like it's getting severely undercut and neglected. The last couple of years have felt regressive this way. Not trying to be mean or harsh, just honest. Simply put, the gameplay is not as fun as it used to be!

Edited January 11, 2018 by komoriblues

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 hours ago, NaoEthelia said:

What's this? You don't like a free invincibility button? Last I checked, Maiming Strike was a cheese meta that everyone enjoyed.

I sold my maiming strike.

 

 

[StabbyTentacles]

On 1/10/2018 at 5:16 PM, Klavinmour said:

In no way is Tenno play forced upon you, don't want to play as them?
You don't have to, just like you don't have to be invaded in Dark Souls, you can avoid this gameplay entirely.

And here's where I and a great many players simply walk away.

It is. Tenno play has been forced upon players, since the second dream. (Much like using weapons, and warframes. Since warframe began; as a game. A game about weapons and warframes.)

There is no way to make/wish/dream this actuality away.

I guess you could never use warframes or weapons either if you simply sat on your ship, but isn't that just a little moronic?

 

 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

15 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

And here's where I and a great many players simply walk away.

It is. Tenno play has been forced upon players, since the second dream. (Much like using weapons, and warframes. Since warframe began; as a game. A game about weapons and warframes.)

There is no way to make/wish/dream this actuality away.

I guess you could never use warframes or weapons either if you simply sat on your ship, but isn't that just a little moronic?

Apart from Eidolon Hunting and some segments of the main questlines, you do not need to use the operator.

[PatternistSlave]

I like the idea of the Operator.  I like how my Operator looks.  Her ability to fight is not of the greatest tho.  Biggest issue I think is they just don't do enough damage to random goobs.

[blacklusterseph]

I like the Operators in concept and as an additional thing that you can customize (more options DE pls), but I don't enjoy how they are deployed right now. What I though they would have done as an evolution of the manifestation they chose after Second Dream, was to make deploying the Operator into a 'stand' from Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: a floating spectral figure floating beside your warframe that you could setup abilities on that either self-cast or are triggered while you are still running around and shooting as your warframe.

As it is now it does supplant the warframe in various game scenarios and it is not something I am particularly excited about awaiting me at the end of a multi month grind. Conceptually as a reward for reaching end game it doesn't seem that inspiring either.

'Congratulations on having mastered the game mechanics, successfully fine tuning your weapon builds and perfectly balancing your warframes for your play-style, now press 5 and become this child that ignores those things and eventually gets every cheese ability in the game.'

[Syasob]

23 hours ago, marelooke said:

You also forgot Kuva ;-)

Right, thank you. And TWW quest too. And I'm almost certainly forgot some other things tbh.

[Kimimoto]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:24 AM, Shards-of-a-Soul said:

The only things operators are good at

Void Dash with Naramon Speed unbound and Zenurik Energy pool unbound would like to have a race with you

[BlackCoMerc]

18 minutes ago, Kimimoto said:

Void Dash with Naramon Speed unbound and Zenurik Energy pool unbound would like to have a race with you

Except that with a controller, Void Dash is UTTERLY USELESS for movement. Each transference, and every dash, suffers input delays. Rhino Prime and sprinting is faster than Void Dash on Controller.

So for many players this argument does not apply, because DE introduced the mechanic in a broken state they can't be bothered to fix.

[Loswaith]

13 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

- extreme speed across any map

You do realise this just lets players avoid the game, and was decided by DE it was bad and a huge part of the reason they removed coptering.

13 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

- bring rhino to spy, who cares when you have operator

Rhino does spy quite well (he actually does it much better than other non-stealth frames), in fact any frame can do the spy missions.  Sure some you need to be more careful on some frames than others however, but its completely achievable.

13 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

- revive safely without dying

This just avoids the need to make a frame have sufficient durability.  Sure enemies eventually will one shot players but that is another issue to do with enemy damage scaling. Enemies are eventually meant to be so powerful they push players out of missions, being unable to revive without dying despite having good durability or CC means the mission is at the point you should be leaving.  No mission is meant for you to stay indefinitely.

13 hours ago, Educated_Beast said:

- great get out of jail card when Warframe in trouble (pop out, allow health to heal with relics/shields restore, during that 1-3 seconds, disarm, reduce armor, reduce damage, (depends on school and skill chosen) etc. the mob, or just knock em down, pop in, then kill with frame)

Thus much like the point above, a crutch to avoid making a frame sufficiently durable to actually handle what they should be handling.

 

As to invulnerability, that really isn't a bonus (so much as a crutch stopping things getting fixed) and an issue DE found we had long ago (not long after Valkyr was introduced), enough so that DE removed almost all invulnerability powers from the warframes because it was hurting the game.

[(XBOX)Souluzion]

On 2018-01-09 at 5:25 PM, Thrymm said:

You're probably right, you shouldn't have, because to actually read my analogy and not understand that I clearly DO understand the concept of flavor is kind of a bad starting point.

I know exactly what you mean by flavor.  By all means, substitute the food item with "anything else good that you feel like that is a good thing", then compare it to toilets, or "any other item that can be recognized as bad".  Good=not operator.  Bad=Operator.  Not rocket science.

I disagree with your assertion that the frames weren't fun in the beginning.  I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I was there and enjoyed them immensely, and continue to enjoy them.  Most of my gameplay happens on frames that existed before the Second Dream.  I would say, though, that this has precisely zero to do with the operator, a completely seperate and unrelated entity in regards to the frames themselves, from a gameplay perspective.

Do I want them to be better as well?  Of course I do.  I want them to offer better continuity, better gameplay, better appearance, better everything.  There is literally not one piece of the operator that I believe should remain unchanged.  They clearly aren't going away, making them better is the only real option.  As for WHY they should be badass...., well:

By the time my operator "woke up", he had well over a million kills, completely disregarding anything he'd remember from his past(which we are led to believe is pretty much nothing).  He'd mastered dozens of weapons as was familiar with parkouring off of ceilings, running on walls, dual wielding anything that'd fit in both hands, etc.  And he did it all without saying a single word, by his own hand, not commands to an army.  Before he woke up into a dopey whiney kid, he ALREADY had an extensive backstory, created through hundreds of missions and several events that changed the game world.  He'd already killed every boss that was in the game at the time(which is nearly every boss currently in the game).  He handled every bit of this with the mentality required when you drop out of an air duct with the intention of killing every single sign of life on an enemy galleon, or blowing up their reactor, or whatever decidedly badass thing he was going to do that particular day.

The operator lore essentially rendered all of this moot.  Instead of the kind of honed warrior that can mentally handle the concept of intentionally modifying his weaponry to cut enemies in half or leave dozens as a time as kibble or melted blobs on the floor just as he had done all along(read:the delicious chocolate cake of the gaming world),  we got.....the operator with his decidedly whiney PG flavor(read: the toilet of the gaming world, which as you astutely noticed, isn't even a delicious food to compare cake to).

No, it has nothing to do with their idiotic abilities or even wanting them to "be able to do what the warframes do".  It has far more to do with what they look like coming out of the warframes chest.  What they choose to carry as their supplemental weapon(apparently, mines using a pewpew baseball mitt).  How they walk.  How they talk.  How they interject their not at all warframe soldierlike, oblivious to their own carnage personality into their stories, etc. 

And it's been quite long enough, frankly.  In the real world little boys get turned into grizzled Marines at quadruple the rate that my online solo genocide machine finds the intestinal fortitude to not whine about a minor leg wound.  At this pace it'll take him a decade to grow into what he actually is, and I can take a pass on that pace.

The operators mind with the frame did all that. So them having knowledge is different from them selves using weapons physically.

let me ask you this if you woke up one day and could shoot lasers out of your hands, would you grab a gun and say i'll use this instead? I know i wouldn't. I would also rather jump in a protective suit to help me do all the crazy things then be limited to my human abilities. 

operators how they are now feels more grounded to me. Heck look at anything anime. Gundam, Guyver, Evangelion etc.. Also look at pacific rim movies. Yes most of those are big robots and not suits. But the operators/pilots them self are way less powered. Most don't have any powers what so ever. 

[(XBOX)Souluzion]

On 2018-01-10 at 3:55 AM, marelooke said:

You also forgot Kuva ;-)

It most certainly was for many, or me and most other Founders wouldn't have thrown our money at it. At least I expect most people to be sane enough to not invest in something they don't enjoy...

Of course there are people who would have had fun from the start. But many have not and it's shows by the recent burst in activity. 

i love Demon Souls but there are more who didn't until Dark Souls came around. Same thing applies to Warframe.

My first go was on ps4 when it launched. I had maybe a week in and thought this wasn't for me. Now i have a 100 days plus on xbox. I have played every one of those days.

Also many Invest in ideas that fail there expectations all the time. So believe it cause it does happen.

Want to say thank you for being a founder and making sure this game got to this point. 

[Educated_Beast]

8 hours ago, Loswaith said:

You do realise this just lets players avoid the game, and was decided by DE it was bad and a huge part of the reason they removed coptering.

Rhino does spy quite well (he actually does it much better than other non-stealth frames), in fact any frame can do the spy missions.  Sure some you need to be more careful on some frames than others however, but its completely achievable.

This just avoids the need to make a frame have sufficient durability.  Sure enemies eventually will one shot players but that is another issue to do with enemy damage scaling. Enemies are eventually meant to be so powerful they push players out of missions, being unable to revive without dying despite having good durability or CC means the mission is at the point you should be leaving.  No mission is meant for you to stay indefinitely.

Thus much like the point above, a crutch to avoid making a frame sufficiently durable to actually handle what they should be handling.

 

As to invulnerability, that really isn't a bonus (so much as a crutch stopping things getting fixed) and an issue DE found we had long ago (not long after Valkyr was introduced), enough so that DE removed almost all invulnerability powers from the warframes because it was hurting the game.

They removed coptoring because it was goofy and replaced it with bullet jumps and an equally fast parkor system.  Your comment is very subjective.  

 

Try a public spy, tell me you do not cringe when a rhino shows up.  Of course any frame can do it, but the operator does it better (of course loki, ivara, etc. are exceptions).  

 

So your telling me every public match you go to, everyone built for durability.  If I'm playing nova, I'm supposed to build for durability?  Should I just be a jerk and let the new guys die? I like being able to help people out when playing a glass cannon.   

 

Your really just arguing to argue.  There are many strong utility purposes for operators (not even including the tons of useful passives) and it only gets better the more you invest.  

 

You don't like it, I get it.  I am not saying it is perfect and there is not room for improvement, but I am saying it is a major boost to the game and very fun.  I never had, or even wanted, operators to take the place of Warframes.  As a matter of fact, all my companions are built for utility as well; never for damage.  We will just have to agree to disagree.