Dev Workshop: Warframes Revisited

[Shadedraxe]

Could chroma’s effigy get some love too? How about dumping its augment and making his skin a mobile companion that also benefits from your aura and vex armor. And will breath its corresponding element when you use spectral scream towards the direction your facing. You can still make your effigy a turret that stays in place and attacks and knocks enemies down if you so choose to. But that augment Is not worth the space to make Chroma move from one spot to another, recasting effigy is more viable than that (and the odds of effigy running into a moving enemy with its straight line dash are slim to utilize the damage boost). Also effigy’s drain cost, it’s prettg high for the damage and utility it has currently. And since khora can change damage types in game, how about Chroma being able to change elements in game via. Vauaban’s mine layer, ivara’s Arrows? Press spectral scream to change elements and charge to begin dragon breath. Abilities can change elements even when active to switch the utilities for his elemental aura and the damage type of his effigy (however the health gain from the increased health bar from the heat element aura can’t be regained until after the ability is re cast, to avoid a self healing Chroma by rapidly switching elements while the ability is active). And then Chroma can finally get a real passive.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Shadedraxe

[PsychedelicSnake]

A lot of interesting changes, most I agree with as a fairly aggressive, close combat player. Still, there are some things I think could still use some work, which I'll briefly go through below.

Atlas

• Petrify: The changes are looking good but we still face one of the bigger problems with the ability. Visibility. Petrify receives so much flak because it can be really difficult to see what you are doing. It's not that the colors are bright or anything. It's that the visuals for the power are very visually busy and as a result can be difficult for players to parse what lies beyond the cone of effect. Changing the visuals to be less difficult to deal with would probably be the best change you could make.

Banshee

• Resonating Quake: I like that we are getting rid of the augment in its current form, but based on the demonstration shown on stream there still seems to be the problem of range. Yeah you have to recast it, but if properly outfitted the augment will still do tons of damage in an incredibly wide area without denting a player's energy. The intent of the change is to get rid of locking down the whole map and making all the other players sit around and twiddle their thumbs. This change solves the problem of the Banshee player doing nothing, but it doesn't solve the problem of leaving the other players with nothing to do. You still lock down quite a bit of the map and it seems like you do even more damage.

Chroma

• General: The changes to Spectral Scream and Vex Armor seem great, especially the latter which trades a bit of power for more team utility. However, Chroma still has the problem of a pretty abysmal range. On its own the range of Chroma's abilities are already mediocre, but when built with his 2 and 3 in mind his range is absolutely terrible. Buffing up the range of Chroma's 2 and 3 should help with this, especially since these abilities seem to be more oriented for teamplay and moving Chroma away from being a "selfish tank".

Ember

• World On Fire: As someone that uses Ember's full kit, especially Flash Accelerant, Ember's changes seem to be moving in a direction I am okay with. However, I am not particularly a fan of tossing increased energy drain on top of slowly shrinking the range. We'll use Valkyr as an example here. Valkyr also has increased energy drain as well as the growing range mechanic to offset her invincibility. Ember is a very squishy frame and has no damage reduction or invincibility. The primary reason for Ember's change was killing or locking down the whole map and generally being anti-fun as a result. The gradually shrinking range, I feel, is all that is necessary for World on Fire. We don't need a second negative added on to it, since her fragility already fills in as another drawback.
  • EDIT: World on Fire suffers from a less than obvious range. Yeah you can guess the range by when exactly enemies start burning, but it's not enough. Remember the old visual FX for World on Fire? With the rotating fireballs? Let's bring that back and merge it with the current visuals for World on Fire. Retain the fiery explosions when enemies are hit, but also have the rotating fireballs as an indicator of range. It'd be more visually appealing than just having the same old on-ground circle a lot of other frames have.

That's all I got right now. If I think of anything else or have stuff to elaborate further on I'll edit this post, but these are my feelings on the changes in their current WIP state.

Edited February 3, 2018 by PsychedelicSnake
Added stuff

[TrinXT]

8 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

The proposed changes aren't enough in my book. She's still overshadowed by Titania in practically every way.

I'm not sure how you're comparing them to each other.

Edited February 3, 2018 by TrinXT

[CaptainJLP]

4 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Resonating Quake (augment) - Upon cast, places a Quake that does not require channeling to maintain, meaning Banshee can move freely. Has a short duration, and does not move with the player. Has double the range of a regular Soundquake, but does more damage near the center.

Seems like it might be useful on a sonar / silence build when you have to revive a teammate, thanks for the info!

[King_drex666]

First of all ember world on fire dps abiltiy is not that even strong for high level content and now this.

Ok we get it you dont want your eidolon to be one shot but you guys give us 25k affinity from one shard and those passive way bounds of yours from every other tree wont work until we maxed them and we want to max them but we won't have ths time or skill to focus farm efficiently.

And who on earth told you guys that thing about banshee while using resonating quake augment.

You bring that augment build only in defense missions only coz that's the only logical place to use it. And most of the layback player's use that augment with banshee to farm focus by not doing hardcore stuff.

You wanna do that with banshee make another augment.

Please dont just make  the players who have very less time to play the game just quit coz I'm planning on completing my focus tree little by litttle and if you do this to every frame that is used by people who have less time to play the game they love they will just cringe and stop playing. Coz they gotta start over now.

[ObviousLee]

1 minute ago, TrinXT said:

I'm not sure how you're comparing to each other.

because on is a literal upgrade to the other?

[Szaeravar]

CHROMA

Spectral Scream - Removed walk speed and jump restrictions You can now freely move while this is active! Damage output is now also affected by the Vex Armor's Fury bonus!

Here's what I'm thinking...

Spectral Scream still disables weapons? That means it's just competing with weapons for better DPS.

Elemental procs aren't great for CC, so it's just channeled damage. If that damage is significantly worse, it won't do anything for the kit. If it's comparable, it might be fun?

Also, since it's basic elemental damage, it'll do very poorly against armor compared to our weapons that we build to mitigate that defense. What I'm hoping is that if nothing is added to Spectral Scream, it needs a TON of damage to make it worth considering using. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by TheDarkStarChimaera

[gosteady]

Ember is Deluxe Skin nerf, next time abilities are nerf ...
DE, do you dislike Ember?

I love Ember. Please do not nerf any more.

[ObviousLee]

@TrinXT look above your op on page 26 or 27. there's my comparison

 

[malekas]

2 hours ago, Nazzami said:

good thing that its being buffed with the pass then huh

Not listed in the dev notes, thanks for the heads up. 

[ArcusVeles]

That World on Fire change is pretty rough.  Why not promote the use of other abilities instead?  Like removing or greatly lowering the % chance to get a Heat proc from World on Fire, but increasing it back to or above current values if you cast Accelerant, and have Fire Blast knock down all enemies currently affected by a Heat proc regardless of line of sight?

Changes like this would not just rebalance the individual ability, but also make the augments attached to these abilities better as well.  Firequake would stand out more as a cc option, Flash Accelerant would benefit from generating Heat procs for it to affect, and... well, Fire Fright's awful.  That one could stand to be reworked.  But yeah, making it more important for Embers to cast their other abilities to get the full strength out of their kit would also beat back the energy economy and killing efficiency issues both at once.

[TrinXT]

8 hours ago, ObviousLee said:

because on is a literal upgrade to the other?

They both fly. That's the only similarity. It's like comparing Wukong to Excalibur just because they both have Exalted melee weapons.

[ObviousLee]

Just now, TrinXT said:

They both fly. That's the only similarity. It's like comparing Wukong to Excalibur just because they both have Exalted melee weapons.

incorrect. they're both support frames. They both offer cc, maneuverability, and enhanced speed. Only difference is, one is objectively better than the other. anything zephyr can do, Titania can do better in spades. I want that fixed.

[TheLoobster]

Yeeeees, the Atlas changes sounds super nice. Only thing that seems to be missing is some visual feedback on picking up the rubble, would be super cool if chunks of rock would stack up on him as physical armor and change the hit fx to show small bits of it flying off.

[King_drex666]

I am so angry right now at the person who is deciding this reworks like dude you have a dev build have you guys ever tried to max out a focus tree now as a casual player basis. Also not to mention we might not be having affinity booster with us.

I am pretty sure to max out one focus or was it ons all foxus school it will take more than 250 days(someone calculated it in forums). Now look at rhat number DE.

[Deathnor]

i know you said to let things lay until testing. their may be things i dont know. but right now id like to put something out their. if your pushing AOE into the "smaller" category i think embers might be a problem.

her ult hits a 2-4ish number of targets. since the range is being cut in half this means your gonna get surrounded much easier and have a harder time taking out the number of enemies required on a squishy frame as they horde you. beyond this your pushing her fire blast into a same function, close to same range, worse damage as her world on fire while also increasing the cost of WOF meaning stacking the 2 to cover the number of targets hit might well be something you just cant do anymore.

i understand the point as shes not the only frame looking at changes to large aoe dmg but id really think the targets WOF can hit might need to be adjusted as the timer scaled up. beyond this i really wonder if fire blast is really just not a completely useless power now. just my 2 cents looking at the changes as a whole and thinking about how they effect game play. 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Deathnor

[Fire2box]

 

Quote

World On Fire - 5 seconds after casting, a percentage will begin counting up on the ability icon. As this percentage scales from 0% to 100% over 10 seconds, the ability’s energy cost and damage dealt both grow to double, while the ability radius shrinks to half.
 

Will range mods and strength mods still affect it or is it all locked?

[mkoo33]

Just now, ADDgamer45 said:

I was just saying the later levels and stuff. I mean if those weren't the "end game" then why have levels at all. The problem is that ember kills things 30 and under according to de. When level 100 sortie enemies are easily accessible but ember can't kill those even if you stand there for a while. That is like saying i wish my best stuff didn't kill weak stuff so fast. The problem is not ember and banshee being too powerful. The problem is that what those powerful people are looking for is most efficiently obtained in lower level areas.

"The problem is that what those powerful people are looking for is most efficiently obtained in lower level areas."
 

Well, "the problem" as you stated it..  it's not a problem at all.
Running a level 10 exterminate alert for a reward that i want... even though i did the mission hundred of times and it's boring, what am i supposed to do, take  limbo and a mk1 braton  to make the gameplay more interesting ? it wont.. 

So the real problem is that "we deserve a challenge"  !

[Fire2box]

Just now, King_drex666 said:

I am so angry right now at the person who is deciding this reworks like dude you have a dev build have you guys ever tried to max out a focus tree now as a casual player basis. Also not to mention we might not be having affinity booster with us.

I am pretty sure to max out one focus or was it ons all foxus school it will take more than 250 days(someone calculated it in forums). Now look at rhat number DE.

you can still max out focus per day on Adaro sedna with equinox, banshee even rhino. sleep equinox, sonar banshee, forgot how rhino worked but I think stomp statis prevented them from spotting. the key is to maintain 500% stealth xp booster. As long as you are good at it, it won't take more then 7 runs or so to hit daily focus cap.

 

 

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

Almsot 600 days of play, and lately I have been giving fresh appreciation to Zephyr.

Kudos - LOVE these forthcoming changes.  :)

Please also address:

1) The map in PoE - needs waypoint markers, automatic direction finder to Cetus, ability to zoom in and out.  Basically Google Maps for PoE.

2) Archwing controls in PoE - In space tumbling about makes sense in Zero Gravity, but not on Earth in PoE.  Please install automatic "right-side-up" feature when flying over PoE.

3) Archwing in Poe - Needs BRAKES & Accelerator.  Need to be able to Stop & Hover, reassess where you are, shoot at enemies etc.  Also make R2 or L2 into an Accelerator peddle....squeeze down to speed up, release to slow down.

4) Archwing deployment in PoE - universal drop distance for deployment "ball on string".  No more accidentally deploying ball-string off in bushes and then lost.  Does not have to be right in front, so you can still deploy for friends, but always a given "10 feet / 3 meters" or the like.  Also, ONE deployment per PoE excursion - i.e. you leave Cetus to enter PoE, deploy an Archwing, and then that Archwing LOCKS to you for your time out in PoE and you can jump in / out of that same ONE deployment as often as you want until you return to Cetus at which time THEN that deployment ends.  Deployed Archwing just sits there when you jump out of it, waiting for you.  If you lose it you can always deploy a new one.  Same goes for Archwings deployed on PoE for friends.

5) Turning in Bounties and Getting NEW Bounties while still out and about in PoE - its an absolute unnecessary PAIN in the tush to have to run all the way back to Cetus to get a new bounty when you finish one out and about on the PoE, and are still having a great time out there.  PLEASE make it so you can access Bounties from out in the field on PoE and turn in the ones you have completed also out in the field.  

THANKS!  :)

[KaeseSchnitte]

5 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

VOLT

Discharge - Removed the damage cap. Increased base damage output from 750 to 1200. Damage and stun duration are halved for enemies further away from Volt (affected by Mods).
 

Removing Discharge’s damage cap has been a common request since Volt’s rework in early 2016. We tried testing this version of the ability internally, and decided it was too much  - stunning all enemies for 20+ seconds, through walls and inside spawn closets, had a seriously disruptive effect on gameplay. However, we understand why this is a common request, and have done our best to make it work.

What happened to Volt's supposed alternative to gunplay? Volt is still nowhere near being able to keep up with any decently modded weaponry.

I'd suggest changing Shock to be able to be held to shoot out continuous lightning strikes. Shot at a tesla coiled target, Shock could increase the damage the target does to itself and to nearby enemies until the tesla coil effect end or the target dies. This, if it stacks generously, would allow Volt to be just as effective using his abilities, as our weapons are currently, without creating too spiky damage, as it would ramp up the longer you attack a foe.

A continuous cast for Shock could also be used to increase the damage the Electric Shield does to enemies if Shock is fired at it. Unlike for Discharge however, I'd suggest to add a cap to the damage an empowered Electric Shield can deal. If that cap is reached by continuously firing Shock at said Electric Shield, enemies that pass through it could be stunned just as if they'd been hit by Shock.

At last, I'd like to suggest a fun little QoL synergy between Electric Shield and Speed: If a Warframe is under the effect of Speed and passes through an Electric Shield, he gets propelled forwards, similar to Excalibur's Slash Dash, but without breaking momentum or any other benefits Slash Dash might provide outside of the movement.

Edited February 3, 2018 by KaeseSchnitte

[Kategari]

@[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Pablo So I've seen the Crush change and that obviously makes Shield Transferrence completely and utterly redundant. Have you come up with a new augment for Polarise?

[curather]

Just now, Fire2box said:

 the key is to maintain 500% stealth xp booster. As long as you are good at it, it won't take more then 7 runs or so to hit daily focus cap.

 

 

What is going to stop them from nerfing these frames to stop keeping up the stealth buff?  I run Ivara every day for rep in adaro and it takes me around 10 minutes to run.  This is a significant time investment to get max focus every for over 250 days!

[Damocles]

Wait a sec
Chroma nerf will kill it
So basically Chroma getting 100% nerf? People traded off a bunch of things to get this, and I got my dmg chroma not long ago. Using all the maxed mods (not something early players can get), it sacrifices reliability (recasting requires energy, health, shields, time) for a short burst of dmg that will now be no longer relevant. Please remember, players traded a lot of efficiency and practicality for that short burst of insane dmg. 

Pre-nerf
What Chroma sacrifices:
1. hard to obtain (you need to basically clear the star chart)
2. expensive to upgrade (to get that 500%, your maxed narrow minded, blind rage, transient fortitude, primed continuity, primed flow, intensify + efficiency isn't cheap )
3. melee slot for thrown melee for self dmg (you don't really get to choose you're melee weapon for Chroma)
4. to buff itself it loses:
-energy (usually not efficient)
-health (you'll eventually die)
-shields (probably don't have this considering shields are paper)
-time (masochism takes time, I originally thought disabling self dmg would be the only nerf/fix it needed as it also inadvertently fixes the idea to re-equip proper melee)
5. typically takes time to reach max values unless you used an expensive thrown melee build
6. forma to fit everything (although most players who have Chroma don't think of it as a bad thing, newer players won't be able to cheese content with Chroma easily)

What Chroma gains:
1. Temporary invincibility for most content via armor scaling (you gave up health and shields for armor+dmg, you're on verge of death so you deserve this), it's inconsistent because of paper shields not always being there, and at the risk you screw up due to a printing jam or lack of paper, you die.
2. Temporary insane dmg buff to whatever weapons you were able to bring (is Ambulas sortie elemental enhancement viable), makes all mastery fodder usable and all meta weapons god tier. Doesn't last for ever and cannot be recasted, nor can it be transferred to next cast. It's a selfish buff but it makes it possible to clear certain content efficiently and effectively

Post-nerf
What Chroma sacrifices:
same as pre-nerf (based on the provided info) but now is basically mirage but more expensive to cast than the latter for the benefit of having both buffs without environmental dependencies inherent in latter

What Chroma gains:
1. Armor is still good (there is no supporting information that state otherwise)
2. Aura; basically mirage style for everyone assuming you play public (seeing some players solo the game because not everyone has deep pockets for rigs)
3. Built-in ignis wraith (because it's previously not possible to equip an ignis wraith? Now it's no longer possible to equip Chroma as endgame build)

[101100010]

I hope this isn't all the changes that are going to be done. Saryn is one warframe that is riddled with bugs when it comes to her abilities, they don't work right. I would recommend watching frozenballz video on her on YouTube showing most of the bugs that occur when using her. She needs more survivabilty if she's supposed to be a brawler frame (this could be put into her moot ability in many ways).  And her Ult should be ble to proc the corrosive status if Oberon's can proc radiation. You've already reduced the dmg on the ult so the corrosive debuff shouldn't cause too much of a problem. It's kinda misleading when reading the description of the ability and seeing its effects. Her first ability is almost perfect when it comes to mechanics it's a really good feel it gives knowing you are debuffing enemies with an effective status effect (please viral is good as is hopefully it doesn't get changed too much).Looking at how you've made recent frames I think it is very capable to make some changes to her abilities. It doesn't need to be a rework just a bug fix and tweak to some of her abilities to add more functionality to her builds. I have to say you guys really did a good job on these reworks but I really do hope that some fixes and bug checks are done on Saryn especially.