Landscapes of the future - will Digital Extremes deliver?

[grigorije]

We've been told by DE how they learned many things from PoE, but is that really the case? When I saw the subtle enthusiasm with which they pointed out the fact that the Venus Landscape would be a "true" open world, many times larger than PoE, I felt a slight chill. Size matters, but so does the content.

I understand that we've only been given minimal information, but from what we've been shown, I can only conclude that Venus will feature the same elements as PoE but sprinkled across a larger area. I just hope they do not use that chart of satisfaction with PoE as the only guide post.

They've said countless times that they listen to the community, but to what degree? Do they really? Many instances prove the opposite. Then again, I'm no developer nor do I know the difficulties of digging through heaps of feedback, so I could be wrong about anything and everything.

Still, they really ought to look at games such as the Witcher series and Elder Scrolls for pointers.

Edited March 15, 2018 by grigorije

[direcyphre]

Yes.

[Hypernaut1]

It'll be just as good as anything they've ever released, forums will still rage and make rant post popular.

[EndermanBeast]

yeah

[S.T.M.P.D]

17 minutes ago, grigorije said:

Still, they really ought to look at games such as the Witcher series and Elder Scrolls.

...And draw what conclusions from them?

[Magicfingers]

they say they listen to the community, but there is a big difference in listening to the community and paying attention to the community

[BETAOPTICS]

Witcher 3 and Skyrim are quite different games though. You can take inspiration but it does not translate directly. A smart developer knows this. What would you hope to see though, your original post was quite ambigious and non-descrptive. Offer your concerns and in a way thay can be used by the developers and who knows you might even see some of it translate into the world building itself.

[--F--NerevarCM]

So, you want them to add an open world with the size and complexity of an Elder Scrolls game?

Would be cool add a new open world every 5 years...

[grigorije]

10 minutes ago, S.T.M.P.D said:

...And draw what conclusions from them?

 

2 minutes ago, BETAOPTICS said:

...Offer your concerns and in a way thay can be used by the developers and who knows you might even see some of it translate into the world building itself.

I was talking about how many view PoE as empty, and if this is the case with the much larger Venus Landscape, it will be disastrous. I used the two games as an example of good open worlds.

[Hypernaut1]

3 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

So, you want them to add an open world with the size and complexity of an Elder Scrolls game?

Would be cool add a new open world every 5 years...

Sometimes I wonder how hard it would be to just add more mass in between sites on plains and just add a few random quest givers. 

[Aeon94]

PoE was their first open world content aka experiment , not like they were best open world designers for years.

Ofcourse they will learn from PoE and make a better open world map with more stuff in it.

 

[grigorije]

5 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

So, you want them to add an open world with the size and complexity of an Elder Scrolls game?

Would be cool add a new open world every 5 years...

Not the size, but more content variety and density would help.

[peterc3]

44 minutes ago, grigorije said:

Still, they really ought to look at games such as the Witcher series and Elder Scrolls for pointers.

No. Complete and total no. Warframe is neither and trying to make it into them is so unbelievably bad. Pick specific things from them that DE should look at. Radiant Quests that are totally random and not at all the same thing, different cave? Make Warframe grimdark just because?

[Ethorin]

20 minutes ago, grigorije said:

I was talking about how many view PoE as empty, and if this is the case with the much larger Venus Landscape, it will be disastrous. I used the two games as an example of good open worlds.

have you ever actually PLAYED Skyrim? because those random Grineer Patrols you can run into are about as much as you get between dungeons/towns/places in Skyrim... if your complaint is "PoE is empty!", Skyrim solved that with Fast Travel, not by having stuff everywhere.

[aswitz87]

The plains are tiny.  There are hundreds of completely empty spaces in many open world games that would fit the plains easy.

[rune_me]

PoE has nothing to do with open world, though.

It's basically just a big level where missions can generate spontaneously from time to time.

Open world means more than just a big map you can move freely around in. It means NPC's to interact with, decisions to make that somehow affects the world, freedom to choose which order you do things in, side plots, etc, etc. PoE is nothing like that and never tried to be.

[Hypernaut1]

I feel like there's is so much story they can tell in the plains... That get wasted on r just a few andom missions. I know the team is small, but it's unfortunate that we have all these cool locations that essentially don't mean anything. 

I definitely thing they had a ton of more plans for the plains that they never got to develop. Including so of those caves.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

My answer is yes.

However be careful what you ask for.

 

So you mention Elder Scrolls, Witcher etc.

Folks generalize these games as having maps "teeming" with life. When they in fact do not. They do have a better balance in mob concentration butLarge open spaces exist & are numerous.

Mainly because it adds to the immersion & realism.

Last time you went into a forest was it overflowing with animals?

 

If DE puts in as much content/npcs as folks request then folks will complain:

"I have no downtime."

"I can't fish or mine."

"I have no peace. I'm always fighting."

 

That said, PoE was a good step forward. But the proper balance between "full" & "sparse" hasn't been met.

 

Additionally many gamers here are forgetting the mechanics in PoE.

Aka: Eidolons.

Remember Plague Star?

Plague Star used every inch of PoE.

Folks dreaded trying to Fish, Mine, go AFK, even do bounties due to be under attack 24/7.

Exploration always had a sense of danger because Infested were everywhere.

The map truly was "teeming" with life.

The Chargers, & Ancients impo felt like wild animals. Traveling in packs, flanking enemies, etc 

 

However, Eidolons were a nightmare because the lures & players were bombarded from all sides by Eidolons, Volmalysts, Infested, & sometimes Grineer too.

 

DE obviously has to account for Eidolon battles. Hence why Ghouls (Ironically given their name) don't spawn at night.

 

That said, I expect Venus to be better balanced in design/layout, have a better economy (craft, items, rewards, etc), & NPC population.

 

PoE was a giant experiment from a developer that until now only designed corridors.

 

DE did give players what they wanted in this regard.

Players hated it.

Edited March 15, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I'm not sure De can pull off filling their maps with filler quest content like the more successful giant open maps out there. But they could fill it with massive foes and pull a Shadow of Colossus out of it. 

[Sitchrea]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)FriendSharkey said:

I'm not sure De can pull off filling their maps with filler quest content like the more successful giant open maps out there. But they could fill it with massive foes and pull a Shadow of Colossus out of it. 

^This^

Warframe Landscapes, from what I can see, are not designed to be Skyrims or Witchers. Sure, there is stuff to do in them during down time, but in truth Landscapes are massive set pieces for magnificent battle scenes, not hyper-immersive second-life's.

Edit: And this is not a bad thing, when handled well.

Edited March 15, 2018 by Sitchrea

[Gravitus123]

Maybe and maybe not.Dont get overexcited just in case

[aswitz87]

Ok one thing I want that would improve the landscape significantly.  Genuine detailed long range views for good PCs.

Every game has this issue (except maybe ARK).  Things get excessively blurry at a modest distance even when running the game in 4k. So if they are going to have even larger distances, they better improve the ranged detailing on higher settings.

[Oreades]

I think they will definitely deliver, I just hope they don't hyper focus on it afterwards like they did with Cetus. Cause I think the main stumbling block was that they just kept hammering Cetus events. 

I mean I understand pushing the new content to a point but Cetus crossed the line into excess. 

I just hope Venus doesn't follow suit. 

[grigorije]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

If DE puts in as much content/npcs as folks request then folks will complain

Haha, now that you mention it, I have had such thoughts while traversing the thick vegetation which, on a low-spec potato of a PC, renders the enemy virtually invisible.

[rune_me]

12 minutes ago, grigorije said:

Haha, now that you mention it, I have had such thoughts while traversing the thick vegetation which, on a low-spec potato of a PC, renders the enemy virtually invisible.

That mostly have to do with the art style of the plains, and not so much your PC. DE went for a very realistic art style, which means that everything is just shades of grey and brown and tends to blur together. Realistic sure, but it's poor game design.

Compare to something like, say Horizon Zero Dawn. That's not realistic at all. No grass is such a bright red color in real life. And why would all grass of a certain height be red and nothing else in the landscape? And why do fireflies always come out at night and fly around just that tall red grass? It makes little sense. But from a game design perspective, it's a clear visual cue that makes you instantly spot the places you can hide, even at just a quick glance.

Realism makes for good presentations, but rarely good game design. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by rune_me