I don't want scaling rewards

[IceColdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Viges said:

No, I think it's you who are special here, trying to make me believe, that people are not going to cheese anything they can in f2p farm heavy game.

So I want you to stop talking obvious bs, thx

Then fix cheese. No need to bring out useless content as well. People would be more open to drop cheese as long as they can get better rewards through skill. This isn't the case though currently, sadly.

[CupcakesMoo]

 

If by "cheese" you mean "being clever and using basic situational awareness to create a strategy"

I can admit that unless its somehow against the rules, if I find a way to "cheese" something I'm going to use it. If being clever gets me to my rewards easier so be it. Yes I will "cheese" anything if I figure out how. I'm just that kind of person. I learned quite a lot about how this game works in the short amount of time I've been playing it and let me tell you. Lulz were had.

I've had this discussion before about how players will optimize their game to the finest iota and I see this being done as I play the game. It's true.

[Vox_Preliator]

I am just kinda confused by some of the responses here.

I thought the ability to start at waves 20, 40, 60, 69, 420, 5318008, 80 with increased rewards was something most everyone had unanimously agreed time and time again was a wonderful idea, which is what is being asked for here. 

I'd like to see two things:  Fissure Boosters applying to all endless missions, and Level improving rewards from enemies.  Make level affect all drops, similar to how it affects Affinity, specifically Credits and Resources.  It would be nice if level improved the chance of Mod drops, but I don't see it happening. 

[DatDarkOne]

6 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

 

If by "cheese" you mean "being clever and using basic situational awareness to create a strategy"

I can admit that unless its somehow against the rules, if I find a way to "cheese" something I'm going to use it. If being clever gets me to my rewards easier so be it. Yes I will "cheese" anything if I figure out how. I'm just that kind of person. I learned quite a lot about how this game works in the short amount of time I've been playing it and let me tell you. Lulz were had.

I've had this discussion before about how players will optimize their game to the finest iota and I see this being done as I play the game. It's true.

Hehe, I see what you mean.  I myself have an interesting viewpoint on "cheese" too.  My frame of choice just happens to be one that can cheese a good bit of the game.  So I'll find interesting ways of adding skillful play into my use of her.  Things like lining up rows of enemies to take them all out with one bow shot or not using any survival mods and still survive.  

As for the topic of this thread, I have mixed feelings that are mostly positive about it.  I don't care about getting kuva because I'm not anal about rivens.  I also don't do long endless missions due to real life interrupting or falling asleep while playing.  What does interest me  is the chance to have higher levels enemies to fight against or just interesting twists to missions.  

That said, I'm not against any of the ideas that have been presented here.  Well as long as none of them get outrageously crazy. 

[RazMarvel]

Problem is difficulty being scalable without the rewards being scalable.  
If a 2 X 20 min survival gives the same rewards as 40min then why even do a 40 min one?  
 

[Gremlin]

3 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Eh, not enough informations i'd say. We don't know enough yet. Meanwhile kuva is a widely demanded resource and unlike resources like controle modules, you can never have enough of those due to Riven RNG. DE had the potential to finally give lots of players something to do for a long while also something that has been widely demanded. But they only fulfilled 50% of what was asked for. The potential lied in their hands but they refused to use it which is just sad.

Well yeah, I don't think de really has an idea what it'll be for apart from leader boards. I think an endless scaling kuva would be fine, but it would really need the risk increased. I don't think survival is a great shell for that, unless they put in a real losing situation in there. Running out of ls isn't really a problem, and the people who are running for endless don't really have an issue dying. :p

[Hypernaut1]

56 minutes ago, RainMarvel said:

Problem is difficulty being scalable without the rewards being scalable.  
If a 2 X 20 min survival gives the same rewards as 40min then why even do a 40 min one?  
 

Why not just make 20 satisfying enough? Those that love endurance for endurance sake can still continue playing

Edited March 29, 2018 by Hypernaut1

[DrBorris]

2 hours ago, Viges said:

No, I think it's you who are special here, trying to make me believe, that people are not going to cheese anything they can in f2p farm heavy game.

So I want you to stop talking obvious bs, thx

I did not say nobody was going to cheese it, I said the opposite actually. My point is: Why let those who cheese it ruin it for those who don't? For some reason people (like you) are saying that everyone will cheese it because that is the only way people actually do extended survival, which is far from the truth. Hell, how do you even propose cheesing Kuva Survival? Camping won't work because you have to defend towers.

And please don't tell me what my experience actually was. When someone normally tries to camp in a survival I am in I generally let them try and fail because, contrary to popular belief, camping often ruins enemy spawns. Finding an actual good camp spot that can sustain LS is rare. The groups I end up running an hour with are normally the players that don't take the game as seriously and play for fun, aka the exact people who don't cheese.

[Zhoyzu]

6 hours ago, DrBorris said:

 

Edit: Just imagine the circumstances were flipped. Kuva Survival had been the only way to get Kuva and DE just now added Siphons. However, extended Kuva Survival was still by far the faster way to farm Kuva. Would you not want DE to balance out the Kuva drops?

scaling isnt the solution though

[DrBorris]

Okay, what is the point of Kuva Survival? Like, I get it, make it faster to get to the high level content and balance around 20 min, but is Kuva Survival really where that should be implemented? To me it sounds like you all just want more commonly spawning Kuva Floods than to run an endurance mission. In my eyes, at least, the point of Kuva Survival is to be that one mode that encourages endurance.

Like, if you want more high level high reward Kuva missions, ask for that, but it is feeling like you are imposing what you want on a game mode that is designed for something else. Here's an idea, add some variation to Kuva Assault, increase the enemy level, and add a Kuva reward. there, a longer duration mission with higher levels.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

Okay, what is the point of Kuva Survival? Like, I get it, make it faster to get to the high level content and balance around 20 min, but is Kuva Survival really where that should be implemented? To me it sounds like you all just want more commonly spawning Kuva Floods than to run an endurance mission. In my eyes, at least, the point of Kuva Survival is to be that one mode that encourages endurance.

Like, if you want more high level high reward Kuva missions, ask for that, but it is feeling like you are imposing what you want on a game mode that is designed for something else. Here's an idea, add some variation to Kuva Assault, increase the enemy level, and add a Kuva reward. there, a longer duration mission with higher levels.

In all honestly, I would be really happy with a very high level Kuva Spy mission that only rewarded kuva on successfully hacking the vaults and bonus kuva for being completely undetected.  Make it a combination of Kuva Fortress and Lua Spy starting at Lvl 100 and I'd be happy as hell. 

[General_Democles]

are these people jealous of those players who are willing to run longer endurance runs if they want more kuva? I mean if they don't want to be forced or run endurance runs why not just go for normal siphons?  if kuva won't scale enemies level shouldn't scale too, problem solved(but not the best). the best if scaling rewards with the enemies simple as that.

[DatDarkOne]

6 minutes ago, General_Democles said:

are these people jealous of those players who are willing to run longer endurance runs if they want more kuva? I mean if they don't want to be forced or run endurance runs why not just go for normal siphons?  if kuva won't scale enemies level shouldn't scale too, problem solved(but not the best). the best if scaling rewards with the enemies simple as that.

I think the problem with that is as someone said earlier in this topic.  The way we exit survival missions tend to trap those who want or might need to exit earlier.  It's not a problem have because I solo the hell out of everything.  But this is a real issue for others and cause issues in public missions.  

[General_Democles]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I think the problem with that is as someone said earlier in this topic.  The way we exit survival missions tend to trap those who want or might need to exit earlier.  It's not a problem have because I solo the hell out of everything.  But this is a real issue for others and cause issues in public missions.  

yea i can see that but rarely people insist on playing longer if a team request for extraction. Eitherway not scaling the rewards isn't the solution for this. I think giving the option to extract instead of abort mission when you are in the extraction zone seems like the best solution. I really want the rewards to scale because it just doesn't make sense when you're fighting tougher enemies for the same rewards and if i have 60 minutes to play i want the 60 minutes to be efficient as it can be at best.

[DrBorris]

34 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

In all honestly, I would be really happy with a very high level Kuva Spy mission that only rewarded kuva on successfully hacking the vaults and bonus kuva for being completely undetected.  Make it a combination of Kuva Fortress and Lua Spy starting at Lvl 100 and I'd be happy as hell. 

Like, what if Kuva Fortress missions all dropped... wait for it... Kuva.

 

And if DE is worried about people getting burned out on the Fortress, they shouldn't, because Siphons still exist.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

Are you happy with the amount you're getting now? Good. So what's the problem with scaling? You don't wanna be forced into going more than 20 minutes? Is it the time that stops you or are you not capable of handling higher level enemies? If you're happy with the amount you get in 20 minutes, how would scaling change that?

The only person that forces you to go farther into a survival is yourself. No one is forcing you and 20 minutes in a survival is very easy and common to find. Trust me, a lot of people only have the time for 20 minutes. If not, you can always solo.

If it's the time that bothers you, then what I can propose (since I completely agree with you that we can't all have 3 hours on hand) that we get a checkpoint and milestone system for survivals, where whenever we leave, it drops a checkpoint that we can come bak to and pick up where we left off. If it's the difficulty that bothers you, you can always start the scaling over again.

There should be a reward though and incentive for those that have the patience and skill to get into the levels designed for our warframes, which is past normal content.

Edited March 29, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Kuestenjung]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Hypernaut1:

I would prefer increased rewards with survival STARTING at wave 20 difficulty. 

I think people are really just asking for more rewards and increased challenge. Needing to spam a mission for 40 minutes to experience a challenge and adequate rewards is not healthy for game. 

And what´s different about that, If I don´t want to be forced to start at a higher level to get more/better rewards?

I am staying longer in the mission, so I should get more and better rewards, not?

Edited March 29, 2018 by Kuestenjung

[ShocK.-]

yeah you dont want them but there are people who do want them, and so what? your opinion is not the only one that matters. Also you are not "forced" to do that anyway, if you feel forced well.. that's your problem. You have kuva syphon, kuva flood.

whats wrong about gameplay variety in this game?

[Radagosh]

Yeah i agree I don't like getting more for doing more and harder stuff. I just want to lay back and fish, actually i dont like baits either if I'm totally honest i just want to be able to fly my liset in a loading screen for eternity.

[Sonicbullitt]

8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't want to be forced to stay more than 20 minutes in one mission in the name of efficiency. If people truly wanted to play for 40 minutes they can, it's not like you don't get rewarded. 

I think what people are really asking for is challenge and increased rewards. What I would prefer are survival missions that start off at wave 20 intensity with increased rewards. 

 

no one is forcing you, thats why the kuva siphon missions exists, the endless is option for vets like us who want an actual challenge and reward for our time and effort spent. Don't be selfish and ruin it for others, the fact that there currently is no reason to stay for longer times is very much true.

[Phatose]

I wonder if this is just a problem with very different expectations of the magnitude of scaling we're discussing.

If it's as slow as fissure scaling - 25% increase every 25 minutes, with one category being boosted every 5 and some bonus at 25/50/75, that's very different from a 25% bonus every 5 minutes.

I can see the first possibly happening.  The later, no.

[Wildcardgsx]

I Think people are missing the point of Endless Kuva, The rewards should scale, regardless of what we want. PERIOD.

You get Less Kuva doing 20-30+ minutes of Endless Kuva

Versus

Doing regular Kuva Floods and Siphons.

 

Just Because you dont have the attention span or cant be bothered, to have a frame built and weapons that can support these endless missions just shows how casual 90% of this community is. I for one want Warframe to Give Us Some Kind Of Endgame, Personally and IMHO I want to be challenged and have a challenge. So far all DE has been doing is catering to people like this OP and Im not only tired of it, Im bored of it.

 

While I get that DE has to basically cater and tailor the hell out of its game to keep new players coming in and staying interested, There is nothing on the back end to keep Veterans from reaching that MR and then leaving because they have literally done everything! How many times can you do the same thing over and over again before you're bored the living hell out of? 

Think about this; I did an Endless Kuva for 30minutes, eventually Life Support pods stopped f'ing dropping, on top of having to try to figure out the paths for this tile set. i GOT 6400 Kuva out of it. That Is Horrible when I can do Floods and Siphons for 10-15minutes and make double or triple that. Doing the same 30minutes on Floods and Siphons with a booster getting 30,000Kuva!  Which got spent on maybe 3rivens.

For the amount of time that I have spent playing this game, which just over 3100+ hours recorded just on steam having registered back in 09 is not inconsiderable. Has been one big grind to grind even more. We grind endless amounts of resources of so many different types just to get weapons and frames so we can grind even more resources!? I mean comon! And now finally in 2018 we can now farm Kuva in the Kuva Fortress ... wow who would of thunk it? Guys comon you can do so much better then this, I know you can you've shown us you can. This is compounded by the fact that this Endless Survival on Kuva Fortress doesn't act like a normal survival, 20-30 minutes in and you cant find a life support pod! what the hell is with this? I thought this was supposed to be Endless? So now your basically forcing a new meta and you have to bring a Desecrate Nekro, but again wants the point if its easier and faster to just do normal siphons and floods?

[fluffysnowcap]

8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't want to be forced to stay more than 20 minutes in one mission in the name of efficiency.

Scaling is there for people with time, and that are after a rewarding challenge.

8 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Personally I also don't want scaling rewards because I hate endless missions, but I can see why some people want them. That's why I have no idea what the, "best" solution is. 

And i want Scaling rewards because I love endless missions, but I can see why some people don't want to do them.That's why I want the option in the game for the people that want to do it to be able to do it.

 

PS. @Hypernaut1 you should of relay of put this thread in the "Missions & Levels" part of the forms found at "Home > Feedback > Feedback > Categories > Missions & Levels" just a just a helpful reminder to help you topic get seen by DE.

[Mizarul]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb fluffysnowcap:

Scaling is there for people with time, and that are after a rewarding challenge.

And i want Scaling rewards because I love endless missions, but I can see why some people don't want to do them.That's why I want the option in the game for the people that want to do it to be able to do it.

 

PS. @Hypernaut1 you should of relay of put this thread in the "Missions & Levels" part of the forms found at "Home > Feedback > Feedback > Categories > Missions & Levels" just a just a helpful reminder to help you topic get seen by DE.

This guy gets it! Totally agree with this and couldn't have said it better myself!

Edited March 29, 2018 by Mizarul

[Sonicbullitt]

18 minutes ago, Mizarul said:

This guy gets it! Totally agree with this and couldn't have said it better myself!

word,  the endless mode is completely optional, it is meant to be optional/supplementary, so I do not get why anyone would be against the option when you aren't forced to do them, again the mode is not meant to replace the kuva siphons, its the reason as to why we still have the kuva siphons. So I cannot understand why this is anything but a positive, its a win win situation.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Sonicbullitt