Make Warframe Clear of the Feel of Pay to win

[Get_Singed]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Confirmation bias.

Warframe is growing but this says absolutely nothing about the amount of people who drop off in the first few hours or who do not even start because they heard about the slot prices. 

Slots are not cheap. Trade is not that easy. That is just your opinion. And I certainly do not share that opinion. 

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by confirmation bias, as however you intended to use that phrase you used it incorrectly.

According to google, 1 platinum costs roughly 6.7 cents, meaning 2 weapon slots don't even cost $1 and a Warframe slot is just over $1. 12-20 platinum can be earned easily in less than half an hour, as 25 minutes is enough to obtain 5 prime parts and prime junk sells for about 5 pieces for 10~ plat, and that's assuming every single piece you obtain is sold as junk rather than for its individual value.

There are more active players now than there were a year ago, that is indicative of the game growing regardless of the number of players that drop off. If the game is growing that means it is successfully attracting and maintaining the interest of new players.

Slots ARE cheap. I never said trading is easy. You're entitled to your opinion certainly, but if you think $1 or less than half an hour of your time is too much and you can't enjoy the game because of it, you may see yourself out.

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Confirmation bias.

Warframe is growing but this says absolutely nothing about the amount of people who drop off in the first few hours or who do not even start because they heard about the slot prices. 

Slots are not cheap. Trade is not that easy. That is just your opinion. And I certainly do not share that opinion. 

Slots are cheap and people shouldnt expect to get every basic need covered for free in a f2p game. The price they sell slots for is minimal in the long run if you compare it to what you get in a game you actually need to buy.

I've spent very little on WF myself and I have obtained a slot for each frame without trouble and have more weapon slots than I can currently bother to fill. I've also managed to obtain all primed frames except Nyx. Every primed frame I own along with most of the frames that dont have primes yet have gotten double capacity. I've also increased the capacity on several of my weapons without any trouble or the feeling of having to spend real cash. It all comes down to trading, something I started with quite early after I begun playing WF at the end of last year.

I didnt know much about WF since I hate doing research on games before hand. All I knew was that you could get platinum by playing, cracking relics and trading the parts to other players. That is what I did to start out, along with selling some rare mods from time to time obtained in the plains, like Vice, Secrets and all of those. Then as soon as I hit the point where I was able to run sorties I started to look into rivens a bit. I've only sold a few rivens for weapons I simply dont like or never plan on using. But it has all been enough to stay afloat without really worrying about platinum, slots, taters or anything else.

[Lucavee]

The amount of people who cant be bothered to read is astounding. Just put in a simple keyword to trigger their reaction and people immediately rush in to bash OP. Its like they love to bash just for the sake of bashing.

On topic:

I understand the problem, but i dont agree with your proposed solution OP. Warframe and weapon slots are one of the few plat sink in the game. And i think we need more of them not less, coz inflation. Unfortunately i dont have an alternative solution.

But i do know this. The biggest problem most people have with warframe is the lack of information. Its not that difficult to find information should you know how and where to look for them, but generally people expect the game itself to give out information and tips.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

12 minutes ago, Get_Singed said:

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by confirmation bias, as however you intended to use that phrase you used it incorrectly.

According to google, 1 platinum costs roughly 6.7 cents, meaning 2 weapon slots don't even cost $1 and a Warframe slot is just over $1. 12-20 platinum can be earned easily in less than half an hour, as 25 minutes is enough to obtain 5 prime parts and prime junk sells for about 5 pieces for 10~ plat, and that's assuming every single piece you obtain is sold as junk rather than for its individual value.

There are more active players now than there were a year ago, that is indicative of the game growing regardless of the number of players that drop off. If the game is growing that means it is successfully attracting and maintaining the interest of new players.

Slots ARE cheap. I never said trading is easy. You're entitled to your opinion certainly, but if you think $1 or less than half an hour of your time is too much and you can't enjoy the game because of it, you may see yourself out.

No, I used it exactly right...and you illustrate that here again. Look up what confirmation bias means because you need a refresher. 

The premise is that new players are scared off because they have to purchase slots. You reject this notion because the game is growing and you think slots are cheap. That is confirmation bias. Ignoring all but the evidence that substantiates the preconceived notion. This goes so far that you even dismiss the drop off in potentially paying customers as even remotely relevant while defending, what you argue, is a minuscule income stream. Penny wise...pound foolish. 

Now...of course it is entirely intellectually dishonest to even start to pretend that it is just running the relics...that you do not have when you start...or simply selling the mods IF you are lucky enough to get something that can be sold and you probably will need yourself...or....that it is just 1 slot. Because it isn't. And you know this. 

Nor is it as simple.

Because it is the quarter color pallets that remind you they will cost 75 plat if you want a black or white color...or maybe bright pink. It is your warframe and weapon inventory filled with plat prices for hundreds of weapons and dozens of Warframes....making it extremely clear that if you even want to sample a fraction of what is available..2 slots ain't gonna cut it. Literally the first experience you have after the initial mission is a bombardment of plat prices and extremely limited space....and that is even before you get to the trading system or have anything to sell at all...

And yes...that IS contributing to the wider sentiment out there that Warframe is not really free to play at all...and THAT is why everybody here is so freaking hyper sensitive and overly defensive about the system that they are unwilling to listen to the experience of players who dropped off. Reality is, regardless of how arrogantly you brush it off with platitudal calculations...and that is not really a big secret...people who start this game...generally do not know any of the sh*t you say here. What they know is what they see: everything costs plat. THAT is what  the game makes abundantly clear to new players. THAT is their introduction to the game. And THAT is why the game is still on the fringes of the overall gaming community. 

Plus of course the fact that the game started out by selling power and by doing S#&$ like charging plat for revives. That certainly did not help the reputation of the game at all.  
 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Lol. Really? Because I was building my first Warframe on my 2nd day playing...which was Valkyr by the way on Jupiter...and I only got there because I didn't quite know how to leave the group I was in that went farming for her. 

I had NO idea what I was doing or how to trade or what was worth something.  

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Warframe is growing but this says absolutely nothing about the amount of people who drop off in the first few hours or who do not even start because they heard about the slot prices. 

Slots are not cheap. Trade is not that easy.

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Confirmation bias.

 That is just your opinion. And I certainly do not share that opinion. 

[Get_Singed]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

No, I used it exactly right...and you illustrate that here again. Look up what confirmation bias means because you need a refresher. 

The premise is that new players are scared off because they have to purchase slots. You reject this notion because the game is growing and you think slots are cheap. That is confirmation bias. Ignoring all but the evidence that substantiates the preconceived notion. This goes so far that you even dismiss the drop off in potentially paying customers as even remotely relevant while defending, what you argue, is a minuscule income stream. Penny wise...pound foolish. 

Now...of course it is entirely intellectually dishonest to even start to pretend that it is just running the relics...that you do not have when you start...or simply selling the mods IF you are lucky enough to get something that can be sold and you probably will need yourself...or....that it is just 1 slot. Because it isn't. And you know this. 

Nor is it as simple.

Because it is the quarter color pallets that remind you they will cost 75 plat if you want a black or white color...or maybe bright pink. It is your warframe and weapon inventory filled with plat prices for hundreds of weapons and dozens of Warframes....making it extremely clear that if you even want to sample a fraction of what is available..2 slots ain't gonna cut it. Literally the first experience you have after the initial mission is a bombardment of plat prices and extremely limited space....and that is even before you get to the trading system or have anything to sell at all...

And yes...that IS contributing to the wider sentiment out there that Warframe is not really free to play at all...and THAT is why everybody here is so freaking hyper sensitive and overly defensive about the system that they are unwilling to listen to the experience of players who dropped off. Reality is, regardless of how arrogantly you brush it off with platitudal calculations...and that is not really a big secret...people who start this game...generally do not know any of the sh*t you say here. What they know is what they see: everything costs plat. THAT is what  the game makes abundantly clear to new players. THAT is their introduction to the game. And THAT is why the game is still on the fringes of the overall gaming community. 

Plus of course the fact that the game started out by selling power and by doing S#&$ like charging plat for revives. That certainly did not help the reputation of the game at all.  
 

That is not what confirmation bias is, sorry. If I were saying "No one ever leaves Warframe because I've never heard of anyone who left Warframe" and then a bunch of people who still play Warframe agreed with me, that would be confirmation bias, as only the people who continue playing are likely to be on the forums and there is no one to argue against my point or be an example of the contrary.

There is nothing wrong with saying that warframe and weapon slots are cheap because the plat can be obtained in under half an hour. Yes, a literally BRAND NEW ACCOUNT will not be able to do that, but it will take them how long to get a few relics to run? How many slots will they NEED in their very first day? Because in that day they can earn the plat for slots. My girlfriend just started the game and she's had no trouble getting slots. Your opinions are just your opinion. You can leave the game if you don't like how it is.

[Meowfied]

6 minutes ago, Get_Singed said:

That is not what confirmation bias is, sorry. If I were saying "No one ever leaves Warframe because I've never heard of anyone who left Warframe" and then a bunch of people who still play Warframe agreed with me, that would be confirmation bias, as only the people who continue playing are likely to be on the forums and there is no one to argue against my point or be an example of the contrary.

There is nothing wrong with saying that warframe and weapon slots are cheap because the plat can be obtained in under half an hour. Yes, a literally BRAND NEW ACCOUNT will not be able to do that, but it will take them how long to get a few relics to run? How many slots will they NEED in their very first day? Because in that day they can earn the plat for slots. My girlfriend just started the game and she's had no trouble getting slots. Your opinions are just your opinion. You can leave the game if you don't like how it is.

Srry new players dont know prime junks and relics. Many will quit before finds out what it is.

[Yagamilight123]

En 13/4/2018 a las 12:41, TopSpeed dijo:

i know im a founder just like you , look potato vid he expline it batter then me

Potato is just a youtuber ... and a pretty mediocre one . Not an autority in what people are thinking/feeling .

 

[iuki.]

I could argue that with plat, you can buy the most powerful weapons, frames, mods, arcanes, etc in trade chat directly from another player. You can save 1000s of hours this way, if you have the MR that is. It's not pay to win I guess but it is pay to save a heck of a lot of time.

More on topic, yea sort of do wish that slots were free. And not because I am cheap. Instead, I would spend that plat on other things, like cosmetics. It just feel nickel and dimey to me. W/e, that's just how it is. If that revenue is neccessary, then that's the price you have to pay.

Edited April 17, 2018 by fizbit

[(PSN)Aerik93]

I know I’m probably too late to chip in here, but I think the OP has confused ‘pay to win’ with ‘pay to play’.

I admit that Warframe does look somewhat PtP when you look at the face that weapons and Warframes and stuff all show their Platinum costs upfront, rather than their blueprints. When I started playing, I actually believed it - that I could only get most weapons by paying premium - until I noticed weapon blueprints in the Foundry.

Then there’s the matter of limited slots. You start with two frame slots and four weapon slots (if I remember correctly), not counting those you can buy with your starter platinum. This early in the game, being very new to Warframe, I doubt a newer player would realise what’s up or why, until they check their inventory.

The best thing to do with the free starter plat is to buy slots, but when the game shows the plat costs of weapons and frames upfront rather than showing that they can be built, it’s more than likely that a newer player may have already spent their platinum, unless they’re extremely conservative about their premium currency.

Weapon and frame capacities aren’t much of a concern until you hit MR4 or 6, when you have more Loadout slots. Because you’d not be able to carry enough weapons to fill them all. That can be felt more specifically if you’re a player who’d rather not have the same weapon in multiple loadouts.

 

And while it’s true that you can trade for plat, the point is that that platinum has been paid for by someone else. That technically doesn’t make the game free, as a player with a ton of platinum who hasn’t spent a cent on the game, has technically had their game been paid for by other players.

 

You aren’t directly forced into paying for platinum or other stuff, likely you’d be able to make MR25 with only your starter plat, if you’re smart about it. You can get pretty much anything in the game and complete it without having to pay $2100 to get all of the base game content (SWBF2).

But that’s it - all the other Platinum is still paid for by other players.

Edited April 17, 2018 by (PS4)Aerik93

[WindigoTG]

I have to say, I rather agree with the OP.

The game is XTREEEEEEEEEEMELY limiting at the beginning. And first impressions is everything.

Sure, you can say "But slots are dirt-cheap, you can easily trade for that plat" all you want, but you have to reilize that it is requiring a prior knowledge of the game's nitty-gritty, and it requires to go into the game with a predefined mindset to get into the trading.

How many people are doing in-depth research of the game prior to going in, as opposed to just jumping in to check what's the game is about?

I bet it's safe to say that the absolute majority of people are just going in out of curiosity, only to face a paywall very early on.

First impressions is everything, and this early in the game it is easier to just walk away than to learn how to work around this wall.

And don't forget that sure, for you, a seasoned player, making some plat for slots is "just 5 trash prime sales", but for a new player it potentially is DAYS of trading, because they have a very, very low daily limit for the number of trades, and they may have trouble in finding a person willing to buy multiple parts at once.

 

I have friends who walked away from the game exactly because they've run face first into that wall that early on, when they aren't hooked enough yet, and couldn't be bothered to farm resources upon primes upon plat upon credits, all at the same time, just to get a solid footing in the game. It was easier for them to just turn around ant get back to other games. And those are people with prior knowledge, thanks to me. What about a regular player?

And I have even more friends to whom I didn't even think of pitching the game, because I know how it would end, thanks to these early limitations.

 

However, all that being said, I don't think that making slots free is the way to go.

As another person in another thread has said some time ago, we now have a few dozens of frames and a few gazilllions of weapons, but the ammount of slots we're given is the same as it was back when we had only 4 frames and a dozen of weapons.

I think, the right way to go would be to increase the ammount of starting slots.

Like, say, 5 warframe slots, to be able to really taste the variety different frames can offer.

And similarly with weapons. Not sure about the exact number (maybe the same as the amount of weapon types?), but higher ammount of slots would make it easier to get a good taste of what the game can offer and to be hooked.

And players will need to buy a clemton more slots anyway, so this solution wouldn't impact plat sales in any noticeable manner.

Edited April 17, 2018 by WindigoTG
Ohmygosh, typos...

[(PSN)Zero_029]

A founder made this? I'm surprised. 
Looking in from a third-party perspective. I 100% see where you are coming from though.

Everyone jumping on the OP. Calm down & think back a little, he is right in 1 regard.

The Warframe, Weapon...well all "Slots" in general can give off the "You must pay." vibe to "NEW"
However that is NOT on the slots or some money grubbing scheme from DE.
Each slot does cost them space in terms of save data & server space.

Where DE has dropped the ball is in the New Player experience.
Warframe says absolutely NOTHING about Warframes, Weapons, & etc requiring slots.

You're thrown into the game & eventually you get a pop up saying you have no slots & now must buy more or delete an item.
I know a newbie on PS4 who literally was deleting frames left & right because he wanted to try out his quested frames.
He had built & leveled Volt 5 times, built & leveled Valkyr 3 times because he loved the frames.
This player was a kid so money was not an option for him.
Around the time I learned of his situation he was in clan chat crying because he had acquired Mirage but didn't want to delete Excalibur whom he had forma'd 3 times & it was his first frame so while he wasn't too aware of I, he was attached to the Frame.
I gifted him 5 slots so he could regain his now deleted frames, & have some space for new frames. As well as Reactors for each rebuilt frame. I work a Full Time job & I could spare the cash.
Then I had to teach him about trading, how to trade, how to research fair prices & etc.
Now he handles his own. (He's a better trader than me...)

But as much as players are hurting for new Content. SInce this seems to be the year of DE going over the game & revamping/reworking/repassing old content, & etc.
They REALLY need to go over the new player experience.

There needs to be full fledged tutorials on: All Slots, Reactors/Catalysts, Endo, Mods (Such as Aura, Augment, Exilus, etc.), Syndicates & Standing, & Trading. Yes I said Trading.

Nothing in game aside from Cancer Chat *ahem* Region Chat & Trade Chat hint to new players that Plat is tradable.
Nothing in game tells them that they can use traded plat to purchase slots.

THAT is where this is an issue.

Hardly "Pay to Win" but it is indeed something that should be remedied with a proper tutorial.

[SenorClipClop]

On 4/13/2018 at 11:39 PM, TopSpeed said:

i know it is not , but to make it more feel like not pay to win for started player i think they need to remove Warframe slot and weapon cost

As lagrue pointed out above, weapon and frame slots (and loadout slots) cost server space for DE, and so at least initially it made sense for those to have a real-world cost attached. If DE wants to make slots less indimidating for newer players, I disagree with removing the plat cost, for the above reason, and because other players have already purchased hundreds of plat worth of slots. Instead, I would suggest  increasing the amount of starting slots for starting players and gift all current players the additional slots to match. I think a reasonable starting amount would be 4 frame slots and 12ish weapon slots (up from 2 and 8). This gives players ample room for tons of gameplay without paying a cent.

Long-term, paying plat for slots is acceptable. This game is free-to-play, but it's fair for the developer to ask for plat (especially since it can be got for free) in order for players to have full convenience in keeping their collect-athon items.

Edited April 17, 2018 by SenorClipClop

[(PSN)thowed]

I don't think you really know what pay to win means.

[(PSN)WeeMalk5]

What I interpret OP as saying is that a new player that comes across the requirement of plat for slots early on in the game can be left with the impression (although wrongly) that they are going to need to use real money often to progress. I can understand how that can be a put off.

[Firetempest]

Pay to play. In the realm of old shareware. You usually got most of the game at your fingertips, but something that completed the experience was locked for cash. A demo of sorts. Its a little obfuscated in WF because you can earn that premium money to complete that final step. OP is concerned when a new player finds this out, but then I feel they step out of bounds by assuming slot sales are not important to DE. Every player has a bias to those slots and it also looks to be from a greed of the player to never give DE anything for the game by wanting them for free. Its the only road block to a completionist who wants to keep everything when its completely possible to progress never buying extra slots and utilizing scrap old and reuse slot mechanics. (which is not exactly explained you keep the slot i believe so thats another thing to add)

This ends when all that is really needed is to direct new players to a relay sooner and add a contained maroo like market section to all of them. You don't have to throw a trading quest in a players face when they can just witness it.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Firetempest

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

4 hours ago, Get_Singed said:

That is not what confirmation bias is, sorry. If I were saying "No one ever leaves Warframe because I've never heard of anyone who left Warframe" and then a bunch of people who still play Warframe agreed with me, that would be confirmation bias, as only the people who continue playing are likely to be on the forums and there is no one to argue against my point or be an example of the contrary.

There is nothing wrong with saying that warframe and weapon slots are cheap because the plat can be obtained in under half an hour. Yes, a literally BRAND NEW ACCOUNT will not be able to do that, but it will take them how long to get a few relics to run? How many slots will they NEED in their very first day? Because in that day they can earn the plat for slots. My girlfriend just started the game and she's had no trouble getting slots. Your opinions are just your opinion. You can leave the game if you don't like how it is.

The tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.  Often results in ignoring inconsistent information. Literally what you were and doing yet again.

Your girlfriend...who of course never ever had any help or advice from you...had no problem knowing all the information she needed to know to trade platinum so this is evidence no new player has these problems. Ignoring people who tell you differently. Ignoring the fact that we are talking about people dropping off way before they even get to the point because of how Waframe is structured, presented and priced. Failing to understand that new people do not know this!

Your response that people should leave the game if they do not like or criticize parts of the game is pathetic. Please go away until you learn how to adult like a decent human being.  

 

[Get_Singed]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

The tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one's existing beliefs or theories.  Often results in ignoring inconsistent information. Literally what you were and doing yet again.

Your girlfriend...who of course never ever had any help or advice from you...had no problem knowing all the information she needed to know to trade platinum so this is evidence no new player has these problems. Ignoring people who tell you differently. Ignoring the fact that we are talking about people dropping off way before they even get to the point because of how Waframe is structured, presented and priced. Failing to understand that new people do not know this!

Your response that people should leave the game if they do not like or criticize parts of the game is pathetic. Please go away until you learn how to adult like a decent human being.  

 

Provide some proof that players are leaving the game en mass because they feel like it's pay to win and I'll believe you. Until then, I will continue to believe what logic and other evidence suggests. Fair enough?

[Midas]

On 4/13/2018 at 11:24 AM, TopSpeed said:

Hi Every one and DE

 

Im A founder and i played this game about 4 years now.

i know this game, and im speaking from experience' belive me.

 

(i know you can trade plat)

(warframe is not realy Pay-To-Win it 100% not !)

 

but new players start the game and dont know the game at all, warframe slots is somthing that make new player think this is a pay to win game.

 

make the game more freindly to new players.

 

please disable the cost of PLATfor Warframe slot and weapon.

for new players perspective it look like pay to win.

i know this post has open a few time ! i just wish that that DE will do it.

 

 

look at this video : 

100 % true !!!!

 

 

i'm a founder and pay to win is fake.

[(PSN)BOSS_TPH76]

14 minutes ago, Get_Singed said:

Provide some proof that players are leaving the game en mass because they feel like it's pay to win and I'll believe you. Until then, I will continue to believe what logic and other evidence suggests. Fair enough?

Well... this is the reason I installed and then didn't start playing Warframe and immediately uninstalled it. As did almost all of my friends. But more importantly this exact sentiment is openly being discussed on just about every single game forum the game comes up and it is one of the very first things you hear when people explain why they are not going to get into warframe or why they dropped the game. 

Now you can believe in whatever protective bubble you have created. 

Yet none of the things you said so far are in fact logical (claiming new players magically have information they do not actually have. lol) or evidence that what is being sad is wrong (the fact that warframe is growing does not mean that a whole lot of people are not dropping off...literally a non sequitur). In fact...all the things you have said are a continued proof of your confirmation bias. And of course proof of an extremely overly defensive attitude towards the game that borders on the scary fanatical. 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by (PS4)BOSS_TPH76

[CupcakesMoo]

I've experienced this kind of thing before, I have also been guilty of using this kind of thing before to chip away at debates.. that I don't take seriously. "Everyone is leaving because of X!" should already be some kind of established fallacy. Then tack on qualifiers like "I am a founder!" and "Believe me guise im super cereal!" And you have a right proper snorefest of an argument. I had to read the OP twice. 

Quote

please disable the cost of PLATfor Warframe slot and weapon.

Sure give people a few more slots (not *really* much room starting out, lets be honest) but slots shouldn't be pretty much free for people just because they are new. Also. There are forma blueprints all the time. Limited slots could encourage people to actually use the forma to make the weapon they have better. Instead of feeling free to make just any old weapon they feel like then falling into absolute confusion. 

Another way you can "save the newbies!" is to have an official running weapon hierarchy. I pretty much had to make my own but apparently no one else is going to think to do that. 

Finally I have a question. Are these alleged new people.. new to gaming in general? You seem to know about them and how they tick. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[sleepychewbacca]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Well... this is the reason I installed and then didn't start playing Warframe and immediately uninstalled it. As did almost all of my friends. But more importantly this exact sentiment is openly being discussed on just about every single game forum the game comes up and it is one of the very first things you hear when people explain why they are not going to get into warframe or why they dropped the game. 

Now you can believe in whatever protective bubble you have created. 

Yet none of the things you said so far are in fact logical (claiming new players magically have information they do not actually have. lol) or evidence that what is being sad is wrong (the fact that warframe is growing does not mean that a whole lot of people are not dropping off...literally a non sequitur). In fact...all the things you have said are a continued proof of your confirmation bias. And of course proof of an extremely overly defensive attitude towards the game that borders on the scary fanatical. 

 

You.... expect different from a forum for people who generally like the game? 

I'm not sure what you're expecting. If you wanted a circlejerk that was "hur-dur-this-thing-in-warframe-sucks", you're not in the best place for this. 

[Get_Singed]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BOSS_TPH76 said:

Well... this is the reason I installed and then didn't start playing Warframe and immediately uninstalled it. As did almost all of my friends. But more importantly this exact sentiment is openly being discussed on just about every single game forum the game comes up and it is one of the very first things you hear when people explain why they are not going to get into warframe or why they dropped the game. 

Now you can believe in whatever protective bubble you have created. 

Yet none of the things you said so far are in fact logical (claiming new players magically have information they do not actually have. lol) or evidence that what is being sad is wrong (the fact that warframe is growing does not mean that a whole lot of people are not dropping off...literally a non sequitur). In fact...all the things you have said are a continued proof of your confirmation bias. And of course proof of an extremely overly defensive attitude towards the game that borders on the scary fanatical. 

 

I imagine you can't see the irony in the fact that you are literally using anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias as an argument to try to prove that I'm using confirmation bias.

"I uninstalled and all these people said the same thing so I must be right." That's exactly what confirmation bias is. You go around seeing the comments of players who are displeased because those are the very people likely to say something. No one comes on the forums to say "Wow DE thanks for making such a great f2p model for your game, I just want you to know I love how this game is developed," they come to the forums to complain. Simple. You are only seeing the players who have something to complain about, and NOT seeing ALL the players who don't have a problem with how it is. That's what confirmation bias is.

The fact that the game is growing means that there are MORE players joining than there are players leaving. I am not trying to pretend that no players stop playing the game at all, simply that this game is ABSOLUTELY NOT pay to win/pay to play, and there are not enough people dropping off of the game because they feel like it is for it to even be a problem. If Warframe is growing, that IS proof that the game is successful.

Now, would you care to provide even a single shred of evidence that this game is so insanely pay to win/pay to play that players are leaving the game in droves without using anecdotal evidence or confirmation bias, which you so vehemently hate?

[CupcakesMoo]

http://steamcharts.com/app/230410#All I have a better idea. How about someone post *something* for once. Here is the steam chart for warframe. The average playerbase seems to be on the rise.

Jan 2018, We have 45,177 players on average, but have lost 6,202 players. 

Feb '18 we have 49,035 players, which is a 3,857 rise. 

March '18 we have 48,035 average, a slight dip before 1,940 more average players. Before too long we will have over 60k players average the way this trend is going. 

DID I EXPLAIN THAT RIGHT, OR HAVE I MYSTERIOUSLY MISUNDERSTOOD THE THREAD AGAIN?

Edited April 17, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[dEjAvU5566]

I would say slot is an essential investment in Warframe.

But it is far from being a p2w feature, DE doesn't put a pay wall at each junction between planets,

saying "if you don't have 50 slots here, guardian of this junction will be 1000 times stronger and beat the sh1t out of you ars."

But without additional slot, you do have to planned carefully with frame and weapons which you obtain, not able to play as you want, farm any weapon and store in the inventory.

I think you can figure it out the difference.