[PC] Beasts of the Sanctuary: Sanctuary Onslaught Feedback Megathread

[Kahelsinova]

2 hours ago, Thirdofherne said:

Just sick to the back teeth of being in a mission, having no problem getting Zone 8 cleared, feeling settled in to push the challenge as far as you can and then 1 or 2 of the squad deciding to "cash out" and just stop fighting to force the mission to end so they can run to Zone 8 again. As I said in my first post, the best way to solve this would be to drop the AABCAABC loot rotation and have one that doesn't drop back down to A, so people have a loot incentive to stay as long as possible.

 

That won't stop people leaving if they're targeting certain rewards. If the reward that someone wants is from Rotation B, then everything after that is pointless and they'll leave.

If you wanted a rewards system that encouraged people to go further, then a single large loot table would be the best option, then every time you gain a reward you strike it from the rewards table for future reward opportunities, however that in itself can encourage massive slogs for just singular items, which not everyone wants and I know for a fact that sometimes the loot grind can really burn you out on a game like this.

If you want to see how far you can go, then you're best getting a few friends and then arranging a team comp and trying it or waiting until it's not a new mode with a Shiny New Warframe attached to it and the people who play it do so for competitive reasons or focus farming.

[--Vampires_SE7EN]

i just played the new mod for about 3 hours

and yet i didnt get a single new vandals part

i mean wtf DE if you dont want us to get lato & braton vandal just dont re-release them

i made 18 zone of onslaught and all i got was 1 scene and others were all RELLICS!

if those funny drop chances will not be change i personally wil never play the new game mod EVER

lets think about it you wil need 5 parts for braton vandal and all of the drop chances are not higher than 3% this alone means you should play 165 times to get your hands on them for sure ....

and ppl say only loot boxes are unfair .......

[FoxFX]

ELITE SANCTUARY ONSLAUGHT BOSSES

 

THE ISSUE BEING ADDRESSED:

• There have been reports of Efficiency dropping way too much in Elite Onslaught
• The issue of spawns being insufficient to upkeep the Efficiency needed to pass onto the next zone
• This idea is also addressing some change to the rewards in Elite Onslaught

 

THE CORE IDEA: ONSLAUGHT ELITE BOSSES

• Onslaught Elite Bosses are side bosses that can appear in each zone of Onslaught
• Defeating these bosses grant bonus Efficiency, but are much more difficult to defeat in comparison to the rest of the mobs
• Defeating these bosses can also guarantee Energy/Health Orb drop and a rare chance to drop a reward from the table

 

TYPES OF ONSLAUGHT BOSSES

• Since this takes place in Simaris's Sanctuary, I was thinking of making these bosses similar to the Sanctuary Synthesis Mobs we have been capturing
• There could also be mobs like the Index/Rathuum that can be included in this for Grineer/Corpus enemies (though not too sure what would be a good option for Infested)

[Colyeses]

Out of seven runs, only two completed succesfully.

The first run ran as normal, until we ran out of efficiency.

The second run, I was at full efficiency, and then Simaris kicked me out, claiming I had run out.

Run three crashed.

Run four went to zone 14, and then the portal didn't spawn.

Run five ran as normal.

Run six went to zone 2, then the portal didn't spawn.

Run seven crashed.

This is not exactly acceptable quality.

[Soul-scar]

I have only had issues with crashes in pug matches, seemed more problematic depending on ping but was probably coincidental. Other than that the game mode solo begs to be cheesed as the only way to progress is max range AoE builds. I was begging for a game mode you could use any frame but the maps, AI and spawn rate make it impractical bordering on impossible. That is unless you subscribe to the spin to win philosophy and that just isn't appealing to me.

No rewards or extra time for headshots, no bosses or variety as you progress. It is just the same enemies that scale up as efficiency scales down. The enemies don't scale correctly either, I figured you would stop progressing once the enemies became too tanky to kill fast enough. The case is the only reasons you stop progressing is the enemies don't spawn fast enough so even if you can kill them it is immaterial. RBG based progression depending on the map, kind of.   

The drop tables were so frustrating I just purchased the khora pack with plat to get it out of the way. 1 in 20 chance after 8 rooms for BP etc. was driving me barmy as all that dropped was garbage relics I have thousands of. Credits and endo would be better I guess but it is a new game mode and I don't mind throwing a few hundred plat at new frames tbh.

The game mode is missing juicy bits like bosses to mix it up. Crashes aside it is great fun when it works as intended. The spawns need attention especially on the larger tile sets. What also adds to fun times is rewards, the repeating AABC rotation every 2 rooms feels horrendous from an risk reward perspective. It would be a good game mode to add rivens to the drop table even if they were like 3% at rotation c on easy and 5% on hard, remove them from sorties.    

[Deadoon]

I've lost a braton BP, a lato barrel and a lua balcony scene thus far. They did not test this mode enough before release.

[_-Malicious-Melodi-_]

The whole point to Efficiency quickly droping in Elite is to limit how far people can go, its likely Designed to make going further than 16 nearly impossible.

With that being said, i do wish there was more challenge within onslaught, and i do think mini bosses would be a fun idea, however, with how DE works, they would just be weak mobs with slightly more HP than the others, and most of us would still 1 shot them. Im sure many people wouldn't even notice they just killed one.

[Xyhon]

After playing some more, here is my input: mode is not balanced well considering it favors mass aoe killing and not a tactical approach to this genocide. 

I know it is supposed to be mass murder of simulations, as name states, but considering the amount of enemies, current enemy to effi ratio, and drop tables, plus random crashes for party members, its hardly considered a challenge, more like a push and hope to get something this time. Also, mode is very bland after a while, offers limited amount of space plus spawns, glorifies certain frames, makes others totally irrelevant to gameplay.

It could be better if you made it somehow more with strategy to plan, where you have to hold points, change roles, have support/tank frames, dish out damage and have team fun, not only rely on mag/banshee/octavia and other aoe dmg frames to kill things faster than you can.

PS. Drop tables are totally loaded with crap which doesn't help get what you want. Khora parts should have a bonus %% for first time to drop.

[tCartmant]

On 4/20/2018 at 8:02 PM, Pizzarugi said:

I'm trying my best to come up with a good, lengthy post about the subject, but I'm having one of those infrequent moments where I'm having mental mindfarts. I'm just going to be blunt about it.

I am one of those (apparently few) people who like to contribute to the team and not act as an independent vacuum. While I don't mind being carried, which seldom happens as is, there is absolutely no fun to be had when players bring warframes and weapons capable of nuking rooms with 1-2 button presses. I've ducked out of several of these missions so far, because the majority of people I team up with are bringing Mesa, Saryn, and maiming strike atterax weapons. I don't want to stand around with my thumbs up my rear end, because I have a teammate or two killing 70%+ of all the enemies who only spam their 4th ability or do slide attacks.

And it's not like I can really blame them. Sanctuary Onslaught handles difficulty scaling differently than other endless missions. Instead of enemies getting stronger in level, their efficiency value quickly decreases with the more zones you progress through. After zone 8, you really have to start killing enemies as quickly as they spawn, otherwise you won't maintain efficiency. These same enemies are still able to get 1shot by my amprex or Nidus with less than 50 mutation stacks, but unlike Mesa or maiming strike users, I'm not able to kill nearly as many enemies by comparison.

I'd personally would like to see enemies scale more with level with every zone you pass through rather than have their efficiency value plummet. I want to have to end the mission, because my weapon and frame isn't strong enough to kill an enemy quickly, rather than because I'm not nuking rooms and having teammates leech.

You have to be talking about Normal right? 

[Pizzarugi]

43 minutes ago, tCartmant said:

You have to be talking about Normal right? 

Seeing as I'm currently farming for Khora's parts, which has a higher chance of dropping in normal, yes I am.

And yes, I am aware that powers get shut down on elite mode if they're spammed, but that doesn't discredit the part I said about spin2win atterax. Once Equinox or Mesa lose their 4th ability for a few seconds, there's nothing stopping them from spamming slide attacks and kill everything while their teammates end up AFK due to there being nothing for them to do.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Pizzarugi

[Ham_Grenabe]

You could have the ability to summon a boss to get a big flat boost to efficiency if you can kill it -- summoning requires each teammate to activate a switch in different parts of the map, the boss drops in with a time limit, and killing it takes you into the next zone with a significant boost to your efficiency (like, a flat +25 or +50 efficiency). Essentially, you're saying "Come on, Simaris, we'll prove we can keep going."

It should be a desperation move. It won't be available unless you're below 25%, and while you won't lose efficiency in the boss fight,  if you fail to make the kill in the time limit, your run ends there no matter what.

This would probably require new boss design, so if wishes were horses...

 

EDIT: Alternatively, if bosses are a no-go, then calling for an artificial difficulty modifier (like the sortie mods) could grant double efficiency or whatever. You hit the consoles, Simaris says, "I will modify the simulation parameters if you are able to perform under these variables" and presents the list. You choose, you fight, efficiency stacks back up. The catch: you can never turn off those modifiers. You can add more, but never remove them. So be careful when you choose.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[PaleDream]

YChipping in. So pleased with the new mode, but not with its current state. Fun to run in an organized group, but pubs are a pain as the number post above mention. Efficiency is the killer here for me. Needs a balance check. Now with the drops, rad relics, kinda adding to inflation of the games currency of ducats and plat. Person runs this mode, elite, enough, they have put in less work to get the plat or ducats than someone working on advancing and getting frames. So basically your inadvertently, semi asking, players to buy plat. Just my opinion and thoughts.

[tCartmant]

11 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Seeing as I'm currently farming for Khora's parts, which has a higher chance of dropping in normal, yes I am.

And yes, I am aware that powers get shut down on elite mode if they're spammed, but that doesn't discredit the part I said about spin2win atterax. Once Equinox or Mesa lose their 4th ability for a few seconds, there's nothing stopping them from spamming slide attacks and kill everything while their teammates end up AFK due to there being nothing for them to do.

This mode is all about having to kill as quickly as possible. If your not killing anything then in elite mode, then your just bad at the game. There are sooo many enemies..  I have left with everyone having > 1000 kills most of the time. The time one guy didnt was him spending the vast majority of his time on his ass because he wasnt modded well for survivability. 

In Normal mode.. Well, it starts at level 20 which is kind of a joke really. The amount of frames that can nuke at that level is pretty much all of them if you mod it right.. 

I really dont know how you want to proceed other then it sounds like nerf everything because I cant kill with my gun which pretty much means you wont go many rounds and the entire game around it would have to change.

Btw, I can use a guandao till get over 1000 kills, you gonna nerf that too? thats not spin 2 win... 

[Ahzanti]

Here to complane I have now lost progress and rewards four times to host migrations.  Host migrates and then after, I am assuming, a failed attempt to migrate to me or another player we get our 'standings' page but if you click on the rewards tab it is blank!!! I am tired of wasting 30 min of my life each time because someones computer crashes, they deside to bail or get disconnected for some other reason.  Can we please fix the host migration and loosing the rewards I am getting tired of farming for the same kora nero.

[EatMorChiikin]

I love Onslaught (especially elite). It's what I've been waiting for for a long time; an eternal stream of enemies. There are bugs, yes, even ones that make this new gamemode virtually unplayable, but I'm sure those will get fixed eventually. What I'm angry about the most is the reward chances. I've played Elite Onslaught 6-7 times now (not too many, but still a lot for the circumstances), stayed at least until rotation C on each one, and for every single one I've gotten relics and Captura scenes with a couple Khora parts mixed in. I beg DE to balance the drops more and get rid of a few relics from each drop table. I now have 3 of one Captura scene, though those are supposedly rare, and not a single Lato or Braton Vandal piece. I know they're supposed to be rare, but this is ridiculous. There are simply too many items on the drop tables. Thank you for your time.

[Knowmad762]

Why are you convinced that efficiency is a problem? DE has said in the Devstream that they don't necessarily want players making long runs in this mode, thereby it seems to be working as intended. It seems to be balanced enough that the majority of reasonably geared players can reliably make it to round 8, and thus access the full reward table before efficiency really becomes an issue.

Bosses would be really problematic in this mode. Because of the insane player power levels in this game, DE would have two choices to approach a boss. They could use invincibility phases to force player interaction and make the fight an actual thing. This is how most bosses in the game are handled, and the player base generally hates it and complains about it regularly. And waiting out an invincibility phase could be extra aggravating in this mode, where time is a much heavier factor than in other modes. But if they do not use invincibility, the player base will inevitably find ways to one shot and trivialize this boss completely. So now they are giving out extra rewards/efficiency (which runs counter to their stated design aim of shorter runs), with no real downside for the player.

[maddragonmaster]

well too bad there is no public test server.

[SpacewalkerX]

i have lost everything from most of the onslaught missions i have done, since it was relased last week

[KilluaWalker]

I had a semi argument over the drop rates of the vandal weapons in another forum, i don't think DE's intention was to give everyone these weapons but instead allow the dedicated to put in the time and effort to farm for them so its still an achievement to have those items like they were before they were farmable. That's what i would do anyways.

[peterc3]

How would the game know the host was about to drop connection?

[Sean]

Shouldn't be too difficult to have the game save what items drop each time it happens, needed in all honesty.

[Nazzami]

14 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

How would the game know the host was about to drop connection?

if they can do it on PoE bounties i don't see why i cant work on onslaught 

[zonedout44]

Overall, the Sanctuary Onslaught is fun to play, even in solo. I've spent quite a bit of time with it in the last few days (trying to get Khora, sigh) and I don't really mind the core loop.

However, the rewards structure probably needs some work. I think it's great that we have another place to get Captura scenes, but it's hugely frustrating when you have about 17 of the same scene and there is nothing we can do with 16 of them. They can't even be sold for credits. Either replace those with something else, or have some sort of a sink for them. Tenno are going to collect a lot of them, whether they like it or not. It just feels bad.  Maybe we can turn them in to Simaris for a small amount of rep? That would be nice. 

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, Knowmad762 said:

Why are you convinced that efficiency is a problem? DE has said in the Devstream that they don't necessarily want players making long runs in this mode, thereby it seems to be working as intended. It seems to be balanced enough that the majority of reasonably geared players can reliably make it to round 8, and thus access the full reward table before efficiency really becomes an issue.

Bosses would be really problematic in this mode. Because of the insane player power levels in this game, DE would have two choices to approach a boss. They could use invincibility phases to force player interaction and make the fight an actual thing. This is how most bosses in the game are handled, and the player base generally hates it and complains about it regularly. And waiting out an invincibility phase could be extra aggravating in this mode, where time is a much heavier factor than in other modes. But if they do not use invincibility, the player base will inevitably find ways to one shot and trivialize this boss completely. So now they are giving out extra rewards/efficiency (which runs counter to their stated design aim of shorter runs), with no real downside for the player.

 

1. The bosses I am suggesting are the actual Simaris Synthesis Targets we capture. Not the actual bosses like Krill and Ruk. It says so in the OP.

2. I only suggested bosses foreseeing a potential issues of Onslaught being a little stale since all we do is try and kill trash mobs fast enough to keep up efficiency. Also, efficiency starts to become a problem when hunting mobs in certain tilesets. This is even more evident in Elite Onslaught's Zone 6 where you face enemies that are very spread out in the Lua Moon tileset. Thus, the reason why I suggested adding bosses (aka Simaris Synthesis Target Bosses) as part of the mob in Onslaughts.

3. You actually can  gain full access to the full reward table if you reach the +16th zone threshold. After the many runs I have done, I am starting to notice that you seem to be guaranteed a Peculiar Mod if you reach exceeding that number of zones.

 

Once again, this is just an optional suggesting to keep Onslaught a bit more interesting while maintaining the theme that we are fighting in Simaris's Sanctuary. Of course, [DE] could make up some algorithm to set the spawn rate based on a specific Zone, I am only suggesting an alternative that could spice up the game mode.

Edited April 23, 2018 by FoxFX

[Genoscythe]

This can't be considered endgame.

 

It's exactly the same thing us vets are doing all the time. Cheesing through enemies with incredible high values with abilities that can create even better values. No change or thinking required. We missed top 100 in elite onslaught today by three spots in a squad of three, one of us was a random wukong who was just memeing.

 

It requires exactly as much tactis or thinking as the main game as your build is set up: none at all.

Regarding the mode itself: unstable, quite numb in terms of depth, rewards are grindy at least. 3% drop chance for a weapon part? Good thing other players are paying for my plat.

 

Why not simply lock weapons behind a certain wave? Like 25 zones in normal mode equals lato vandal, 25 zones in elite equals braton vandal. To give players an incentive to actually play your gamemode and make those weapons feel like an achievement.