Are Damage Aura's and High Range AoE BAD for Warframe?

[2wentyThre3]

I'm clearly not new. However I have not spent nearly as much time as some other people in this game. This is however, my first serious forum post. So firstly Hi to my fellow Operators.
Greetings over and done with I'd like to expand on my feelings and the no doubt click baity title of this post.

So my few months of experience in the game have taught me that playing in groups that interact with each other is fun. Playing with people of equal to and higher skill levels is fun. And trying to help new players is also... wait for it... Dismal, sorry, I mean FUN.
Know what I don't think is fun? Standing around doing absolutely nothing as someone or multiple someone's on our party have max range mods and spam AoE decimating entire tilesets, or better yet has a passive Aura that just nukes things. It's anti-social and degrades the entire experience. Okay so I don't like it, this is clearly opinion based and OFC the people doing this sort of thing love it right? They must do or why spend time doing it. And it isn't the place of an individual to sit and tell people they can't have fun in whatever it is they find fun, right?

- BUT - ... and you knew I'd say "but"...

They have option of playing Solo. Just like we all do. So it's me that should feel pushed out to the point that I should play solo? No. No it really isn't. Why isn't it me that should play solo you ask? Because I WANT to participate. I want to be of use. I want to have ups and downs of success in missions due to group synergy and skill. I can't have any of those things playing Solo...
But you know who's experience changes by exactly 0% by playing Solo and performing in the aforementioned way? Have you guessed it yet? That's right folks, the person on auto pilot ROFL stomping the content they need for farming.
Now, I've given my perspective where I want to be part of a group. Why does that equate to this being bad for Warframe? Well, lemme give you my outsider perspective and how I felt when levelling and how I've perceived it affecting other people.
So an MR3 joins a group - He or She is fairly new, learning the ropes and is probably still learning the context or synergy of their Warframes abilities And/Or testing newly crafted weapons. In steps [ Cue Guiles " Rush of the Wind " theme... ] xXxChadBrozor666xXx at MR23 blinding the group that just set foot on Mars with his Mr.T levels of gold and accessories. Now does our boy Chad take a back seat and let the new guys find their feet? Nope... he proceeds to put the entire tileset into a washing machine and presses spin. What exactly did anyone gain from this? Other than a bad perception of endgame play and the chance to stroke their E-peen in front of the newly anointed.

I'm just going to say this. I haven't hit end level play, but I am really not looking forward to sifting through the Chads to find a decent Clan. Surely this is harmful? Surely if it puts taint on the game from early stages it can't be good can it?

I mean this is just my two cents - But I feel restriction of certain Aura's or mods on multiplayer groups can only be a good thing.

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

That MR 23 has probably put thousands upon thousands of hours into his/her gear. They have most likely have a loadout built for endgame content, so it is obviously going to be considered OP at low levels. The difficulty lies in making things viable in endgame while keeping it from breaking the game at lower levels. I really don't think the answer is to force that person that is annoying you into a solo que. Why should their play style be penalized while yours is not? Because it annoys you? That really is not justification for discriminating against that MR 23 person. 

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 1 minute, (XB1)Eminem2420 a dit :

That MR 23 has probably put thousands upon thousands of hours into his/her gear. They have most likely have a loadout built for endgame content, so it is obviously going to be considered OP at low levels. The difficulty lies in making things viable in endgame while keeping it from breaking the game at lower levels. I really don't think the answer is to force that person that is annoying you into a solo que. Why should their play style be penalized while yours is not? Because it annoys you? That really is not justification for discriminating against that MR 23 person. 

Exactly the sort of response I expected. I want no penalisation. If they are OP with the mods and have spent thousands of hours, surely they have other gear and can use it in group without harming others experience. I gave my perspective, but I see it affects others even when I'm in game, so I slow my pace and wait for the others to pick things up. If they don't I keep the pace down. If I can do that after only a hundred hours, how is it insane to think someone better at the game / more experienced could do the same?

Fact is by solo queueing the MR23 loses nothing - they still ROFLSTOMP content and get what they were farming. But guess what - they aren't just making others sit and watch him or her play for ten minutes and those that joined a group to play as a group gain everything.

At worst that sort of behavior is anti-social at best it's rude AF.

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

4 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Exactly the sort of response I expected. I want no penalisation. If they are OP with the mods and have spent thousands of hours, surely they have other gear and can use it in group without harming others experience. I gave my perspective, but I see it affects others even when I'm in game, so I slow my pace and wait for the others to pick things up. If they don't I keep the pace down. If I can do that after only a hundred hours, how is it insane to think someone better at the game / more experienced could do the same?

Fact is by solo queueing the MR23 loses nothing - they still ROFLSTOMP content and get what they were farming. But guess what - they aren't just making others sit and watch him or her play for ten minutes and those that joined a group to play as a group gain everything.

At worst that sort of behavior is anti-social at best it's rude AF.

That person is not being "anti-social" or "rude." All that happened is that they annoyed you. It happens when you go into pug. They can use whatever gear they want, whether you like it or not. Likewise, you can use whatever you want. 

[2wentyThre3]

à l’instant, (XB1)Eminem2420 a dit :

That person is not being "anti-social" or "rude." All that happened is that they annoyed you. It happens when you go into pug. They can use whatever gear they want, whether you like it or not. Likewise, you can use whatever you want. 

Thanks for totally missing the point. I can't really begin to assess the " If everyone does it, that means it's okay " nature of your response. It's clearly ingrained in you and I can't change that. I'm not annoyed, that's an assumption on your end. I used humour, or at least tried to in my OP. I'm not angry at it, it's just sad that people can claim to be about community and then take away experiences from the same community they claim to love. It's really not anger, it's disappointment in my fellow man, a feeling that's becoming all too familiar.

[(XBOX)Eminem2420]

17 minutes ago, Astronomicon. said:

Thanks for totally missing the point. I can't really begin to assess the " If everyone does it, that means it's okay " nature of your response. It's clearly ingrained in you and I can't change that. I'm not annoyed, that's an assumption on your end. I used humour, or at least tried to in my OP. I'm not angry at it, it's just sad that people can claim to be about community and then take away experiences from the same community they claim to love. It's really not anger, it's disappointment in my fellow man, a feeling that's becoming all too familiar.

I completely understood your point, i simply don't agree with it. Don't insult my intelligence by assuming i don't understand what you are saying. 

[(PSN)Croewe]

Yes please let's have more Ember type nerfs. 

If you're in a pug then expect people to be using op setups. Most people want to finish a mission quick so they can get their reward and go. If you want to take your time and dilly dally around then go into a solo mission and do that instead of being rude to the VAST majority of the community that just wants to finish missions and get out without having to wait for that one guy who takes forever to get to the objective.

Edited May 3, 2018 by (PS4)Chris_Robet

[2wentyThre3]

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)Chris_Robet a dit :

Yes please let's have more Ember type nerfs. 

If you're in a pug then expect people to be using op setups. Most people want to finish a mission quick so they can get their reward and go. If you want to take your time and dilly dally around then go into a solo mission and do that instead of being rude to the VAST majority of the community that just wants to finish missions and get out without having to wait for that one guy who takes forever to get to the objective.

Really starting to question if people that choose to comment on the point I'm making actually understand it.

The vast majority? Do you have founded numbers on that, especially at low MR? 
In your own opening statement, as with Eminem's, you both explain that people doing this have no interest in what the other players are doing in a roundabout way. So maybe group play isn't for them? Maybe they should have some consideration and Solo?

My point if it has to be spelled out at this point is that multiplayer online games with market places, regional chats and co-operative grouping are about, and this not an opinion, a sense of community spirit. Either not caring and spamming through a mission or the other example you've just given of "The Speed Runner" where they aim to complete an Obj. as fast as possible and hit the end zone yet they are "having to wait for that one guy" are both anti-social types of play. That type of play only focus' on what you are doing as an individual, so therefore you may as well solo. I mean really? How do you not get that? You have expectancy on how everyone in the group should deal with what you as an individual want to do - Yet in my example I queue with the purpose of assisting the group and I'm made out to be the person in the wrong here? There is no right or wrong, only consideration. And those that do those types of things are inconsiderate anti social P.O.S's. That is my opinion. But with that opinion comes a sad social crux, one where the person intending on using the grouping system for what it's for is actually the person not being catered for. So, as the title of the post implies, systems that allow an individual to take away the options for others to play at the press of a key can be and only are bad for a group experience. The person spamming one ability or killing things without moving isn't showing any skill but is preventing others from learning. Others that the particular content in question is intended for - Low MR players, as I can only imagine lax play styles like this only lead to death and/or failure on high end content... And if you can just spam to win in the end game it really isn't much of a "Game" now is it?

[(PSN)Croewe]

This game is based around speedrunning. Why do you think rescue targets teleport with the players? Why not instead of trying to destroy frames and playstyles you try to fix the issue of high-levels needing to come down to low level missions.

[SenorClipClop]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

I really don't think the answer is to force that person that is annoying you into a solo que. Why should their play style be penalized while yours is not?

OP mentioned that such play (one player's power dwarfing everything in the mission, including allies) isn't penalized at all, since they're already wiping everything without any helpnor difficulty.

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, (XB1)Eminem2420 dijo:

 The difficulty lies in making things viable in endgame while keeping it from breaking the game at lower levels.

"If you want pearls you not only need to know where to look at, but also be willing to break the clam"

There is a way. You need to normalize energy gains across the board, make power efficiency scale linearly instead of exponentially and obviously nerf Maiming Strike and/or Melee Range mods. That way players on lower gear get to experiment with their abilities more often since they won't be starved, but fully geared players wouldn't be able to mindlessly spam all the way.

From then you can actually start adding Endgame content (which we currently don't have, because in order to be true endgame, players shouldn't be allowed to cheese it)

Of course this all opens a bigger can of worms (enemy armor, stacking auras from both players and enemies, leech eximi) which means in order to properly balance lower content with higher content and endgame we need a near complete rebalance of the whole damn game.

[RealPandemonium]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Eminem2420 said:

That MR 23 has probably put thousands upon thousands of hours into his/her gear. They have most likely have a loadout built for endgame content, so it is obviously going to be considered OP at low levels. The difficulty lies in making things viable in endgame while keeping it from breaking the game at lower levels. I really don't think the answer is to force that person that is annoying you into a solo que. Why should their play style be penalized while yours is not? Because it annoys you? That really is not justification for discriminating against that MR 23 person. 

I have several thousand hours on this game, and only a small portion of it went into getting the central things that make every player overpowered.  "I worked hard to become OP, so it's just fine" is a bogus argument.  You can become very overpowered very quickly in this game, and the game gets substantially less interesting when you do so.  It's hard for DE to maintain the quality of the gameplay experience because they themselves don't play the game regularly and aren't good at it.  So they just maintain it, more or less, and occasionally pander to the meta, occasionally shake it up (but not by very much.)  

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

The person ROFL stomping the content needs you too. Because enemy spawning, and therefore ressources and affinity and whatever else are much lower when playing solo....if DE would incentivize playing solo as well as public, that would help. When i used to actually farm for this game before giving up the clan i had been in for years and paid money for(bitter bitter bitter)....i used to almost beg people to stay, even if they wanted to sit in a corner and watch you tube...that was different time, spawn rates may not be that bad anymore, but its like relics. Why would you solo for 1 option at a reward, instead of going public and having 4 different options? You might not even have the relic you need, but just farming whatever else during that time might have you get lucky and be paired with someone who had it...and putting a team together takes too long.

Theres no reason for the Rofl guy to solo either, especially if farming.

[Cibyllae]

9 hours ago, Astronomicon. said:

I'm clearly not new. However I have not spent nearly as much time as some other people in this game. This is however, my first serious forum post. So firstly Hi to my fellow Operators.
Greetings over and done with I'd like to expand on my feelings and the no doubt click baity title of this post.

So my few months of experience in the game have taught me that playing in groups that interact with each other is fun. Playing with people of equal to and higher skill levels is fun. And trying to help new players is also... wait for it... Dismal, sorry, I mean FUN.
Know what I don't think is fun? Standing around doing absolutely nothing as someone or multiple someone's on our party have max range mods and spam AoE decimating entire tilesets, or better yet has a passive Aura that just nukes things. It's anti-social and degrades the entire experience. Okay so I don't like it, this is clearly opinion based and OFC the people doing this sort of thing love it right? They must do or why spend time doing it. And it isn't the place of an individual to sit and tell people they can't have fun in whatever it is they find fun, right?

- BUT - ... and you knew I'd say "but"...

They have option of playing Solo. Just like we all do. So it's me that should feel pushed out to the point that I should play solo? No. No it really isn't. Why isn't it me that should play solo you ask? Because I WANT to participate. I want to be of use. I want to have ups and downs of success in missions due to group synergy and skill. I can't have any of those things playing Solo...
But you know who's experience changes by exactly 0% by playing Solo and performing in the aforementioned way? Have you guessed it yet? That's right folks, the person on auto pilot ROFL stomping the content they need for farming.
Now, I've given my perspective where I want to be part of a group. Why does that equate to this being bad for Warframe? Well, lemme give you my outsider perspective and how I felt when levelling and how I've perceived it affecting other people.
So an MR3 joins a group - He or She is fairly new, learning the ropes and is probably still learning the context or synergy of their Warframes abilities And/Or testing newly crafted weapons. In steps [ Cue Guiles " Rush of the Wind " theme... ] xXxChadBrozor666xXx at MR23 blinding the group that just set foot on Mars with his Mr.T levels of gold and accessories. Now does our boy Chad take a back seat and let the new guys find their feet? Nope... he proceeds to put the entire tileset into a washing machine and presses spin. What exactly did anyone gain from this? Other than a bad perception of endgame play and the chance to stroke their E-peen in front of the newly anointed.

I'm just going to say this. I haven't hit end level play, but I am really not looking forward to sifting through the Chads to find a decent Clan. Surely this is harmful? Surely if it puts taint on the game from early stages it can't be good can it?

I mean this is just my two cents - But I feel restriction of certain Aura's or mods on multiplayer groups can only be a good thing.

I get your point, its not fun to have this happen. I hope you understand that this argument is not new, it is old. And you're coming off fairly abrasive. Which is okay, if what you're feeling is going to make what you have to say abrasive, that's okay. Just know that, that is how you are sounding to many people here. We all started out at MR0, and for every ChadBrozor that made me feel like I was playing as many in the community sometimes refer to Hydron as a  "waiting game simulator" there was a true blue MR23 tenno willing to carry me through a mission I just couldn't do or didn't know how to do, or willing to taxi me to that last nitain alert I needed. I think the brush you chose to paint with was too broad, and I think your analysis of the source of the problem was incorrect. Maybe take a bit more time to formulate your complaint, because its a valid one. But the issue you touched on runs deeper than you think, its roots stretch around this game too many times to count. And if you really want to solve it, pointing fingers at any groups of players saying as though the totality of the problems lays within them, ain't gonna be how you solve it.

[Threa]

9 hours ago, Astronomicon. said:

Really starting to question if people that choose to comment on the point I'm making actually understand it.

The vast majority? Do you have founded numbers on that, especially at low MR? 
In your own opening statement, as with Eminem's, you both explain that people doing this have no interest in what the other players are doing in a roundabout way. So maybe group play isn't for them? Maybe they should have some consideration and Solo?

My point if it has to be spelled out at this point is that multiplayer online games with market places, regional chats and co-operative grouping are about, and this not an opinion, a sense of community spirit. Either not caring and spamming through a mission or the other example you've just given of "The Speed Runner" where they aim to complete an Obj. as fast as possible and hit the end zone yet they are "having to wait for that one guy" are both anti-social types of play. That type of play only focus' on what you are doing as an individual, so therefore you may as well solo. I mean really? How do you not get that? You have expectancy on how everyone in the group should deal with what you as an individual want to do - Yet in my example I queue with the purpose of assisting the group and I'm made out to be the person in the wrong here? There is no right or wrong, only consideration. And those that do those types of things are inconsiderate anti social P.O.S's. That is my opinion. But with that opinion comes a sad social crux, one where the person intending on using the grouping system for what it's for is actually the person not being catered for. So, as the title of the post implies, systems that allow an individual to take away the options for others to play at the press of a key can be and only are bad for a group experience. The person spamming one ability or killing things without moving isn't showing any skill but is preventing others from learning. Others that the particular content in question is intended for - Low MR players, as I can only imagine lax play styles like this only lead to death and/or failure on high end content... And if you can just spam to win in the end game it really isn't much of a "Game" now is it?

 

If I'm understanding your points correctly, you don't like current systems that promote rushed gameplay and AoE nuking? I can respect and understand what you're saying, I have my moments where I wish the squad would slow down a bit and run the mission a bit slower or wish that Banshee would let the rest of the squad get some kills in. But the reality of the game, and the way its systems have been designed intentionally by the devs (evidenced by Parkour 2.0, Onslaught Efficiency, etc), is that it promotes efficient, fast farming of missions. I don't think this issue is specific to this game either. Choose any multiplayer game that involves farming and many players will find the fastest, most efficient, most OP ways to clear content. I can understand your frustrations regarding this issue but I don't think DE will make drastic changes to slow down the game. However, recent changes they've made to Warframes like Ember give me the impression that they are adjusting the ranged nuking issue.

I personally love nuking maps and blowing stuff up, that's my preferred playstyle and I hope that you can at least appreciate and respect that players, such as myself, enjoy that kind of gameplay even though you don't agree with it. I think having a small group of Warframes that are able to nuke maps as an alternative playstyle makes the game better than just having a bunch of Warframes doing nothing more than shooting everything with guns. If I wanted to stick to gunplay only I'd play any other FPS. Furthermore, in my experience, they're not as common as you seem to suggest, and I have over 200 days played. 

You're also stating, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you want your contribution to the squad to be more meaningful and impactful and that is being taken away by players basically blowing stuff up? I need to point out that star-chart missions are where nuke frames are able to blow up the map but you won't find that happening in higher level content such as sorties and Elite Onslaught, or at least not to the extent that you're describing. If you want meaningful, slower based combat then those are the areas you should try playing in. It's where meta or group compositions are actually useful and sometimes needed to succeed.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Threa

[Sasuda]

Or maybe if we had a lobby system that actively assisted us in finding players who want to do the same stuff as us, and are of a similar level to us we wouldn't have the issue.
Also using recruiting chat and actually building a squad are 100% viable options for those who cannot stand joining a public game with players who can do more.

We have needed this for so long and it's really not that complex. The Lobby system has had such minimal front end & usability changes in the last 5 years. There are web games 20 from years ago that provide more functionality.

There are other solutions but this one would be pretty effective and wouldn't take the potential massive effort of the other changes could. Those changes should happen but they can happen over a longer time. Things like making spaces where High level players can get the same amount of rewards just fighting enemies at an equally appropriate strength, Adding content beyond starchart levels and progression instead of adding more progression and power without adding anywhere to take it. Making clans easier to manage and work with and giving clans better recruiting tools and squad building tools. Enemies and levels that aren't horde style. Lots of things. But squad building tools would be fantastic.

[Soketsu]

Il y a 10 heures, Sasuda a dit :

Or maybe if we had a lobby system that actively assisted us in finding players who want to do the same stuff as us, and are of a similar level to us we wouldn't have the issue.
Also using recruiting chat and actually building a squad are 100% viable options for those who cannot stand joining a public game with players who can do more.

We have needed this for so long and it's really not that complex. The Lobby system has had such minimal front end & usability changes in the last 5 years. There are web games 20 from years ago that provide more functionality.

There are other solutions but this one would be pretty effective and wouldn't take the potential massive effort of the other changes could. Those changes should happen but they can happen over a longer time. Things like making spaces where High level players can get the same amount of rewards just fighting enemies at an equally appropriate strength, Adding content beyond starchart levels and progression instead of adding more progression and power without adding anywhere to take it. Making clans easier to manage and work with and giving clans better recruiting tools and squad building tools. Enemies and levels that aren't horde style. Lots of things. But squad building tools would be fantastic.

You re not the 1st one to suggest curing the cause rather than a symptome of this "problem".

Unfortunatly it's seem they prefer to take months to nerf this then that, only to find out it change nothing 😕

Edited May 6, 2018 by Soketsu

[Sasuda]

11 hours ago, Soketsu said:

You re not the 1st one to suggest curing the cause rather than a symptome of this "problem".

Unfortunatly it's seem they prefer to take months to nerf this then that, only to find out it change nothing 😕

Sadder yet is how people refuse to even acknowledge that this is the change needed and resist even the suggestion of improving it. I'm sure if it actually saw enough support and repetition through threads it could actually get some work done on it. Would be nice to get out of the nerf/rebalance cycle and actually make some additions that improve the game.

[qscgg]

those things make guns pointless, should be limited

[TheChaotic1]

On 2018-05-03 at 6:21 PM, Astronomicon. said:

Fact is by solo queueing the MR23 loses nothing - they still ROFLSTOMP content and get what they were farming. But guess what - they aren't just making others sit and watch him or her play for ten minutes and those that joined a group to play as a group gain everything.

Actually only a fraction of the number of enemies spawn in solo, so they lose out on a lot of affinity

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I understand your experience. The issue is level and mission variety. Vets and high mr players put months and a lot of plat into their builds that newer players don't have. This wound be fine, but the problem is that vets don't have anywhere to take that gear. These builds and combos vets have are made to fight level 500-1000 enemies, yet they're forced into the same mission they've been doing for years at the same level. As an old school player, i know what is happening.

Vets are all dressed with no party to go to. This happened way back in 2015, when power creep was taking us beyond the level 20s and 30s and vets needed higher levels, thus we got Trials and Sorties. Now, our power had surpassed even the 100s, thus higher levels are needed like before. Back then, people thought certain things were OP too, when they really weren't, just in need of higher levels to fight.

Onslaught is the first step to this and more is to come. I've predicted this for years and despite forumite doubters, I've been right so far, so i don't expect anything to change. I always go by this saying. "Increasing power against increasing enemies is progression. Increasing power against the same enemies is power creep."

So no, aoe tactics are not OP, just in need of higher levels. AoE as a character sacrifices damage to hit more enemies, so effectively, it is equal when you have enemies worthy of challenging it, but due to area of effect, if enemies are too weak, AoE will dominate, since the damage sacrifice doesn't make enough of a difference.

It's the idea of dps spreading and effective dps. If you kill 1 enemy per second who has 10k health, your effective dps is 10k. Even if your weapon is dealing 1 million damage per hit, it's still 1 enemy per second. If an AoE weapon is killing 5 enemies per second with 10k health, his effective dps is 50k, even though his weapon is doing 100k damage, which is a tenth of the first weapon. Now if these weapons were to go up against enemies with 1 million health, then the aoe weapon would need to hit 10 enemies per second to keep up with the first weapon.

I hope this gives you a better understanding. Higher levels for vets clears the lanes for newer players to go and have they're own fun without feeling epeened.

Edited May 8, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[LabMan95]

En 3/5/2018 a las 20:11, (PS4)Chris_Robet dijo:

This game is based around speedrunning. Why do you think rescue targets teleport with the players? Why not instead of trying to destroy frames and playstyles you try to fix the issue of high-levels needing to come down to low level missions.

This. A hundred and a half times, this.

Make lith and meso relics drop in the end of the star chart (instead of freaking common mods and possibly credits/endo). Make alternate lith/meso missions starting at level 30+ that give a slight bonus to end of mission traces. Make more enemies spawn guardian derision than just one enemy that stops spawning past level 15. Put lower level content in higher level content so we don't have to use these nuke frames to cheese to the end rewards, with the actual mission being an overglorified waiting room. I love playing this game, I really do, but low level missions are just drudgery to me. I want there to be a risk I can't get the reward, so it feels rewarding. But since some things only drop at low level missions, I just speedrun it for the rewards

[o.0-]

I get what you're saying, in the mean time, we just have to go with the flow. Find a Clan, use Recruitment Chat, and so on. However, this should be discussed as it is an issue that should be addressed at some point.

When I've thought about what can change, the question here is what to change in the implementation of AoE? As there are different ways to adjust how the math works for the experience the devs intend, the question is then how to work with what Player Expectations have evolved into over time?

Ironically, as the game evolved, the devs have been tracking and listening to player feedback on content with much focus on endless content, so Mods have been added that can make us stronger and so are intended for higher level enemies, than content available within the Star Chart. As a result the problem emerged of OP gear that sweeps through the Star Chart content. So now what?

When the devs are ready to take this issue on, one course of action could be a Workshop thread on this issue for the devs to share what they have in mind and intend for how we engage missions, and then players provide feedback to where the devs can then make meaningful changes that benefits the game and players alike. Easier said than done, but there is much available to work with existing systems to keep the game evolving in a good direction.

For example, it's been interesting following tweaks to Khora through hotfixes, and curious to see how Peculiar mods work out, and so say instead of tackling AoE head on, maybe something like say adding to the Status System and then making adjustments directly to mods could work?

That alone could do much to adjust how players relate to content, and although I'm just sharing a generality at this point in this post, I can detail what I see as being possible for adding to the Status System and changing Mods stats, such as addressing the 'mandatory' ones.

 

 

[Naftal]

Just the existance of long range aoes that kill or disable enemies isn't a problem. How easy it is to do is.

Basically the hardest basic thing to do in this game is to kill a single enemy with a non-aoe weapon. This is also the least efficient way of playing the game.

The difficulty of pulling off killing or disabling enemies in a huge area should be comparable to its effectiveness. It doesn't make sense that the strongest things you can do in the game require the least amount of effort and skill to pull off.

[Misgenesis]

They can be and some are but its not a black and white issue. Higher level content from the start with rewards people want is something thats sorely needed. But in order to give players more difficulty thats fair, outliers need to be fixed such as Maiming Strike.

But good luck seeing any progress towards that.