Developer Workshop: Saryn Revisited 2.0

[(PSN)willitical]

i may start using saryn, she was just too complicated for me to use

[blaes]

1 hour ago, Mogar said:

Pretty much this.

I mean look at every other update we've had for frames. People always yelling about nerfs when really they're either buffs or they get rid of boring play styles without changing much of functionality or numbers.

numbers on spores are being changed a lot with this rework. it took rebecca one minute (from 6minutes to 7minutes in the vid) to go from ~0 to ~2.5k. if we factor in 200% power strength, that's one minute to reach 7.5k per tick.

 0 -> 30k per tick in less than 10seconds (it starts at 15s, at 24s you can see 30k ticks on the left).

after the rework, damage will be capped at 100k per tick (which will take about 13 minutes at 200% power strength and about 10 enemies btw). previously, against really high level enemies, who wouldn't die from a few weapon hits, we could reach millions per tick.

 

that's what i would call a huge change in numbers personally. and i find that a bit worrying.

the simplification of the mechanics is a good thing, the way it worked before was overcomplicated. but i think it's perfectly justified to question the way it is now being implemented.

Edited May 12, 2018 by blaes

[Purity]

48 minutes ago, MunsuLight said:

And what about team with either Good corrosive weapons ? Or a team of 3XCp+Coaction Drift  or 4XCp?  .. In this kind of setup viral is king  and his good against all faction...  This change hurt team synergies for organized play ..  And if you need Corrosive procs from spores to kill level 80-100 enemies I think there is a little problem.. Talk about level 150 and more and now we can have a talk .. and even with that.. My Atomos or Ignis wraith,Amprex , Torid, Mutualist Cernos can all strip armor pretty easily and fast and they are jsut a couple of examples..

I dont mind all the others changes and they are pretty welcome.. and I'm happy about the lazy playstyle removed .. but for me her 1 should remain viral .. and her 4 .. Either a Cloud that Scale with Duration and Range .. that applies Corrosive as the same rate as this new Spores , or a one hit button that does -%armor scalable with Power Strenght ..  So a 4 similar to that wouldnt hurt either organized play and pub play .. You shouldnt punish people who play a lot together and have a No armor setup .. And there is already a lot of frame that can completly strip armor fast ..even in a non 4XCp Setup ... 

She will just lose her identity 

 

^ This. Facts.

[Sasuda]

On 2018-05-10 at 12:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

set it and forget it

So infinite duration won't make it a set it and forget it ability?
Molt has a lot less tactical use this way, I don't think Molt will see much use. Miasma might be slightly more useful? Miasma was actually nice in higher levels for it's stun and burst Corrosive. Toxic Lash is pretty going to be a lot like Ember's accelerant. She might have less dependency on spore setup for Lash and Miasma but now She might have more dependency on Lash always being on.

It's becoming clearer that the actual objective is mostly looking to slow Saryn down in most scenarios. Make her another armor removal frame. We actually have a lot of these. Weapons now are maybe going to be built without corrosive. On Survival/Excavation that is. Otherwise she'll still probably need it because Spores buildup will take too long. People are saying this is a buff a lot but there's only maybe 2 game modes that might actually apply. Extraction and Survival. For every other mode she'll be resetting often. Defense & interception she might not being doing much in those. Seem like she'll be even more energy hungry too. No Viral means maybe less Spore spam but a ton more Miasma spam. Miasma costing 4x as much and needing a lot more casting to apply.

Leave 1 as Viral and 4 as Corrosive is my preference as well. along with keeping some level of Spore + Molt. Doesn't matter if Molt doesn't spread spores like before and just creates gas clouds, or does a single viral AOE, or whatever so long as there is some way to use the Molt as more than a plain decoy. It was one her good synergies and fun tactics. Along with Toxic Lash for regen. I'd like to keep that too.

I was thinking I'd be mostly cool with the changes but I'm really starting to doubt that. Especially since I'm expecting she'll end up being significantly nerfed from what we've seen. I really think the slow buildup is overall going to be a nerf across the majority of the game rather than a buff.

[Purity]

19 minutes ago, blaes said:

numbers on spores are being changed a lot with this rework. it took rebecca one minute (from 6minutes to 7minutes in the vid) to go from ~0 to ~2.5k. if we factor in 200% power strength, that's one minute to reach 7.5k per tick.

 0 -> 30k per tick in less than 10seconds (it starts at 15s, at 24s you can see 30k ticks on the left).

after the rework, damage will be capped at 100k per tick (which will take about 13 minutes at 200% power strength and about 10 enemies btw). previously, against really high level enemies, who wouldn't die from a few weapon hits, we could reach millions per tick.

 

that's what i would call a huge change in numbers personally. and i find that a bit worrying.

the simplification of the mechanics is a good thing, the way it worked before was overcomplicated. but i think it's perfectly justified to question the way it is now being implemented.

 

28 minutes ago, AliceLaFay said:

The game is just not difficult enough to require quite that much optimization, it's overkill and you'll be fine either way. This is just about gaining access to different playstyles - a caster using abilities without relying on weapons like I said. People complain about CP being mandatory and not getting to use any other aura, and then complain about gaining other ways of dealing with armor

You know we have mag and oberon if you want armor strips. Honestly we don't need more armor strip frames tbh, as well as armor strip augments (ash and trinity to name a few). Its forcing a proc down our throat, that it seems the majority would rather skip on. If its a talk if gaining access to different playstyles, we should get the choice of what type of proc spores have with an augment or something. But forcing more corrosive proc frames and destroying the synergistic stylings between other frames and saryn is a really bleh idea. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Jebbers

[Morgana_Arcana]

12 minutes ago, Jebbers said:

 

You know we have mag and oberon if you want armor strips. Honestly we don't need more armor strip frames tbh, as well as armor strip augments (ash and trinity to name a few). Its forcing a proc down our throat, that it seems the majority would rather skip on. If its a talk if gaining access to different playstyles, we should get the choice of what type of proc spores have with an augment or something. But forcing more corrosive proc frames and destroying the synergistic stylings between other frames and saryn is a really bleh idea. 

This isn't punishing since the setups you're describing are more than efficient enough. I don't want armor stripping to be relegated to only a few frames, because I don't want to have to change to the optimal frame for each situation. I don't want to switch to Mag, I want to play Saryn and be relevant in a larger range of missions.

This isn't a raid. You can solo anything in the game. Rivens exist. Power creep is everywhere. The argument that you can't have it all and play a perfect meta just isn't relevant. I just want to have more choices available that I consider fun.

[Purity]

Idk how waiting a long ass time "in solo" for corrosive procs to be fun. But the each their own. HOWEVER, no offence but this just isnt on you. They are deligating more and more frames to armor stripping, as we have enough frames and methods to do so. Viral made her one of the debuffers that was individualized. Look, I can forgive and accept the one cast pony thing, stacking is meh, and the amount of ticks projected was aight. Infinite duration is aight, Idk how spores will really work with lower level or defense since numbers will have to reset every time, but im sure de can figure something for that, or players can figure out tricks to keep the dmg going. HOWEVER AGAIN, this idea that we need her main utility ability to cast the one thing we have enough of is legit insane. It makes so many team builds useless, and a long sit and hide waiting game for saryn.

[JuanDeages]

Looks decent on paper. The change to molt regarding spores only hurts in certain situations (hitting enemies with spores behind corners), but given that spores have ramping damage, I'll take that trade. The only thing on here that really alarms me is this:

• When recasting on the same enemy it will refresh the tick duration and maintain the Viral Status Effect, but will not stun enemies a second time.

It is already pretty hard to not get insta-gibbed as is, I don't like this change at all. If molt pulls aggro better maybe it won't matter, but I will have to play it when it goes live to really get a feel for it.

[(XBOX)x Deathcraft x]

Also,I think Banshee needs a rework too. Tired of the activating & deactivating, it's the samething as Saryn but I feel it's worse since it ragdolls everything & can't hit anything the sec it gets flung.

[Lokime]

On 2018-05-10 at 1:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

and a decoy that doesn’t scale simply can’t hold up against high-level enemies. 

Same thing can be said about Loki's decoy... maybe some love for him too?

[Heatnix.]

Saryn is my go-to frame and I'm rather used to the way she handles right now.

These changes, although seemingly harmless, reek of trap/nerf to me. I don't know why but something seems off... It could be that I'm biased because of how used I am to how she is now and how effective spore combos are, and yet...

I suppose time will tell. I'm not convinced but it's not like DE ever rolled back on anything good or bad. They just keep pushing the bad til we accept it as good.

On a side note... so many other frames need reworks lol. Reworking Saryn right now feels borderline insulting to others.

[(PSN)a1-w23e_r4]

Hey DE how about you give the community a bit of honesty here on the forums. You are making these changes simply because of how they perform in onslaught? Hm strange that they are talking about these changes not that long after the new game mode was released. Nah it is just a coincidence right?! Couldn’t possibly be intentional right?! You want some constructive criticism? How about you scrap these changes to Saryn and focus on frames that actually need a decent rework. Can you honestly say as developers that is competent to nerf something everytime new content is released? Are you going to make this a trend just curious? I can’t imagine this is good business sense if you are just pissing off your support base all the time. You practically destroyed ember as a viable frame, I am terrified what you are going to do Saryn. I pray you do not base your decisions entirely on your own personal preference, assuming that the Warframe community actually matters to you? This isn’t an insult, I genuinely want to know what your reasoning is here with these changes to Saryn? I want to be able look forward to new content but now I am just left on pins and needles. I view new updates as an omen to something horrible happening to older content! ☹️

[(PSN)a1-w23e_r4]

If Saryn is destroyed with these changes, as a Saryn main I might actually cry, not even joking. I have OCD and PTSD, hearing about this rework has left me on edge. I am literally paranoid because I do not know how this will turn out. I am reading all these comments from people with responses that are either good or bad. It has left me conflicted and deeply frustrated. 😞

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by (PS4)a1-w23e_r4

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 3 heures, AliceLaFay a dit :

The game is just not difficult enough to require quite that much optimization, it's overkill and you'll be fine either way. This is just about gaining access to different playstyles - a caster using abilities without relying on weapons like I said. People complain about CP being mandatory and not getting to use any other aura, and then complain about gaining other ways of dealing with armor

You really missed the point .. Super optimization is needed for very long runs .. 2hr + run .. Yeah some people play that and it will hurt them ..

I dont complain about all others changes..  because I see at how they are fine ..  Because let be real, Corrosive is only good on Grineer Corrupted .. 

Viral should remain on spore and Miasma as Corrosive but with the effect of stripping armor efficiently as the opposite of what is it now (miasma is near useless at the moments) ... .. and that will please both Organized and Pub Groups ..
 

 

Il y a 2 heures, AliceLaFay a dit :

This isn't punishing since the setups you're describing are more than efficient enough. I don't want armor stripping to be relegated to only a few frames, because I don't want to have to change to the optimal frame for each situation. I don't want to switch to Mag, I want to play Saryn and be relevant in a larger range of missions.

This isn't a raid. You can solo anything in the game. Rivens exist. Power creep is everywhere. The argument that you can't have it all and play a perfect meta just isn't relevant. I just want to have more choices available that I consider fun.

I'm all about opening new playstyles .. But Miasma to corrosive in a cloud could still bring a new change of playstyle .. or even like I said multiple times in a row in this thread   a flat %armor reduction on cast would change some playstyle as you want ..  (and you arent reduced to a number of frames who  can reduce armor and open another frame that can do it )  ..  (And you even answered to one of my post without reading the totality of it., in the answer you gave to me .)

I will repeat it .. This rework is a nerf disguised as buff  .. It isnt as bad as Ember Rework (because it killed one of her playstyle) (didnt killed the frame, but killed her late game capability) .. because Saryn will still be super powerful even if all the changes goes on .. But dont say to me that Corrosive Spores are better than Viral .. because factually, this is not .. And Viral being on a small vector like Miasma and a skill  with long casting time and not energy efficient isnt really nice if you want to apply it frequently  and it gonna put you in danger because of the said cast time

.. 


 

Edited May 12, 2018 by MunsuLight

[WhiteCr0w]

On 2018-05-10 at 2:00 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

The first step was removing the synergy to cast Spores on Molt.

Thank you! I'm going to spare myself reading anything in this thread, because I already know what it entails. Just know that some of us understand the purposes of these changes as well as others with other Frames. I look forward to these changes! She's going to be an armor stripping monster, and the change to her augment will essentially force your teammates to armor strip as well. Cannot wait!

[(PSN)a1-w23e_r4]

If these forums are here for the purpose of creating feedback, it would great if the developers would take part in the discussion. We are supposed to assume that DE cares about its gaming community but it doesn’t really feel like that when they aren’t really part of the conversation. DE if your really open to criticism then why not share your thoughts on some of the criticism being made on this forum. You make the game but you don’t really seem to have an active role in the community. Creating feedback is only as important when people feel like it is valued by the developers themselves, otherwise what is the point? I am reading these comments and it just feels like we are talking to ourselves. DE is just off somewhere, away from their computers, drinking a beer and discussing which Warframe they should ruin next.

[hexacypher]

40 minutes ago, Heatnix. said:

I suppose time will tell. I'm not convinced but it's not like DE ever rolled back on anything good or bad. They just keep pushing the bad til we accept it as good.

I've only been playing for 3 months, but If this is true, then it'll be really hard to support DE in the future. It's kind of like why bother to even respond to these Dev workshop things, if they just ignore us and go stubbornly in their own direction. While reading through this thread, there are a lot of people fine with the changes, but there are also a lot of people who are not fine with these changes. It seems like a lot of the people that actually main Saryn aren't fine with them. As an aside, now I'm hearing that Ember and Gara were nerfed. Also I remember seeing a Youtube vid that said Valkyr was nerfed. This all seems so disheartening, especially after the hot mess that was the Onslaught/Khora launch.

--

On the Saryn front, the more I think about it, this rework is a stealth nerf. I'd rather have no changes at all. I level upped Saryn a month ago and benched her because I didn't understand how she worked. She was just MR fodder then, but after observing good Saryn players and reading the wiki, I gave her another go. After that her kit clicked with me and she became one of my go-to-Frames. Her play style and kit are pretty unique at the moment, and the more and more I play with it, it'll be utterly sad to lose it.

[(PSN)a1-w23e_r4]

You can’t really expect positive reasoning from a group of people who literally fired one of their members over a deluxe skin! DE actually fired one of their designers because they got into an argument over Embers rooster skin. So yeah DE is pretty stubborn because they base decisions on their own personal preference. The thoughts of the community come dead last to their own. It is funny because Warframe is practically their entire business, I don’t really understand how they could be so idle with their own consumer base. If they risk ruining their own game in the eyes of the rest of the community that supports it, their personal preference isn’t going to matter. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by (PS4)a1-w23e_r4

[(PSN)Crixus044]

4 hours ago, DreadWarlock said:

It does include toxin procs spreading with the spores, if you watched the newest prime time, you'll see [DE]Pablo comenting about this(and showing). GO back to page one they posted the video in the topic's main page.

Also, you guys forget that Saryn has a passive that increases Status effects duration, it was also mentioned that casting Miasma again will reset the timer. Lastly each tick of damage from Miasma has 100% status chance, Ticks last 5 seconds, which means that you'll get plus 5 seconds, on top of the already increased duration on your Viral procs. To top it all off a Frost/Limbo/Nova can increase that to almost infinity.

I watched the primetime and i thought i heard that they were being removed. Can you please time stamp where you heard this?

[TidalVanguard]

There's nothing wrong with Saryn in her current state. You don't know how angry it made me when you talked about her compared to Nidus and Harrow as if she was some junk prototype that you're too old and wise now to have made. As for the changes: stop fellating yourself and see that if these changes go through you'll be taking an engaging and adaptable frame and reverting her into a "press 4 to win" damage robot.

[(PSN)a1-w23e_r4]

Their should be a separate forum that is filled with nothing but criticism towards DE itself. 😂

[RiouHotaru]

4 hours ago, MunsuLight said:

And what about team with either Good corrosive weapons ? Or a team of 3XCp+Coaction Drift  or 4XCp?

The game is not balanced around CP

The game will never be balanced around CP

The game should never be balanced around CP.

The idea that "But 4x CP!" Is somehow a legitimate counter-argument is ridiculous.  The game will never be balanced around meta.

[MunsuLight]

Il y a 1 heure, hexacypher a dit :

I've only been playing for 3 months, but If this is true, then it'll be really hard to support DE in the future. It's kind of like why bother to even respond to these Dev workshop things, if they just ignore us and go stubbornly in their own direction. While reading through this thread, there are a lot of people fine with the changes, but there are also a lot of people who are not fine with these changes. It seems like a lot of the people that actually main Saryn aren't fine with them. As an aside, now I'm hearing that Ember and Gara were nerfed. Also I remember seeing a Youtube vid that said Valkyr was nerfed. This all seems so disheartening, especially after the hot mess that was the Onslaught/Khora launch.

--

On the Saryn front, the more I think about it, this rework is a stealth nerf. I'd rather have no changes at all. I level upped Saryn a month ago and benched her because I didn't understand how she worked. She was just MR fodder then, but after observing good Saryn players and reading the wiki, I gave her another go. After that her kit clicked with me and she became one of my go-to-Frames. Her play style and kit are pretty unique at the moment, and the more and more I play with it, it'll be utterly sad to lose it.

Only 1 Playstyle of Gara was nerfed and ti was the invincible wall of her 4 ... which I dont really care 

She is still an amazing frame that is nigh Unkillable with her 2 DR% (90%) that applies to both shield and health (so with Arcane Aegis + Grace +Redirection .. or Arcane Aegis + Barrier + Redirection you can outregen most damage) ..  Oh .. and her 2 can scale infinitely in damage if you dont mess up in some of her combo 

Her 1 Scale with Melee mods + riven and if modded correctly wreck havoc in combination with 4 .. You put her 4 in a big range .. You go outside of your wall and breaks them with your Holded 1 ... and "nuke" room with it .. and I think the damage done is 1/2 of the Damage of your 1 (not 100% sure, people can correct me if I'm wrong ) (My 1 damage on unarmored target is around 77k , so 38k is pretty massive damage, but for that you need a good riven .. and a Good stat stick .. I chose amphis because of very high disposition )

Oh Did I say her 2 scale infinitely .. In breaking your wall from the outside .. some parts of the damage (not sure how much again) is added to your 2 still around you .. And how to scale it infinitely .. Casting her 4 Refresh duration of her 2 without losing her damage .. (on a 30-40 second ability duration , her 2) (Not sure if it is really scaling infinitely and if there is a damage cap, but I didnt see one  as in a Kuva survival i could get to absurd numbers in only 20 min)

So it is press 2 at start .. And a Cycle of 4-1 to add damage  and refresh your 2 ..  

her 3 is not that good IMO .. but can still use it as a "aggro" keeper 

And her 4 even if not as good as before isnt that bad when you "capture" a lot of target in it ..  because it take some of their health to add it to Glass Shield .. It is still kinda fragile but not as bad as people are making it to be 

(Does it kinda look like Gara is one of my favorite frame and I will defend her to the end of the world XD ) 
End of showing my eternal love for Gara

---------------------------------------------------------------------

AS your real question . I've been playing for almost 6 months and sometimes I agree with DE Decisions, sometimes I dont , but recently as in the last month or 2 months , I became more and more disheartened with some balances changes as it is becoming apparent that they want to tone down the general power level of the game , because let's be real we are overpowered for the enemies we are fighting ..  I would prefer them saying without some PR , or some nerfs disguised as buff, that they want to tone down the power level of the game .. And it is why, even if I do have a lot of plat (all from tradings) that I have difficulty supporting the game because I love super transparent company..   i would prefer them saying directly " We want to power down the game, just bear with us" but I know I am maybe in a minority saying this

You are talking about Valkyr nerf ..  Yeah they made it harder to sustain her 4 kinda like what they did with Ember more recently.. Valkyr is still a viable user of hysteria, but It is not the best playstyle for her .. She is still a melee only frame .. Eternal war is better .. but once enemy one shot her .. she revolve into using her 4 and her 4 isnt as a good as it was .. She is still a mostly good solo frame

Ember nerf was supposed to kill her low level nuke in making energy cost harder to sustain .. Ember can still do it .. but In halving her 4 range .. they killed her late game capability because FireQuake was what kept her alive in very high level mission ..  She is still useful for her 2 and 3 .. (i dont build her for her 4 atm .. unless I want to nuke low level mission which I do still easily (this was the reason they nerfed her and she can still do it ))

Chroma nerf reason was because One shotting Eidolons Limbs and his #*!%ed up calculations .. But again .. people are still one shotting limbs.. I,ve seen some Volt One shotting limb ,, harrow and even trinity if they are behind one volt shield and near Chroma ...  They got rid of the #*!%ed up calculations  ..  making him a little bit less tanky and his buffing damage is a little bit better than the Rhino Roar Build , but dont bring the team utility Rhino does .. So .. what is Chroma place ?

Zephyr rework was mostly good for her .. But does this changed her from being a Turbulence bot .. yeah she can survive pretty well .. but what does she bring to a team  .. Tornodoes got a little bit better ? But what does she bring to a team .. I love the frame .

You talk about the Khora/Onslaught fiasco ... Onslaught was mostly fine beside bugs as it was released at first .. Fun mode .. Killing ton of enemeis ..
But they made the enemies like real enemies HP .. Fine .. I'm all about fighting enemies with real values .. But they messed up the efficiency so much it was hard to get past zone 9-10 after this  change.. And everyone in the Dev workshop thread was saying efficiency was gonna tank too much and that they shouldn't do it . They still did go with the changes (you can still go read it if it is still there) .They kinda reverted it to what it was before  as they were seeing major complaint on patch notes and people comparing it to Vivergate (go read about it, another interesting thing)
.. But since they are still major problems to spawn in some tilesets .. we can't go as high as before (let say zone 25+ was what good team were doing as onslaught was released).. now going past 15i n elite Onslaught is a pain .. unless the week tilesets are good ..  As For Khora, i think she is mostly fine right now and need some more tweaks,but people are making her weaker than she is 

Why do you think we see so much of Rhino, Frost , Nova, Octavia , Inaros , Harrow, Nidus, Saryn , Mesa, Equinox , Oberon , Volt , Trinity ... Because all of the kits of the said frames can bring a lot to the team.. They are all good around frame which synergize with almost every team they are part of .. I could maybe add more but they are the frames I see the most ... And why does people does complain about others .. Mostly lack of team synergies and that the power level of the others frames are nowhere near the level of those ..  or because they make people revert to one playstyle (see Limbo ) or Mag (Bubble blocking shot isnt nice, but I still use her a lot and probably one of my most favorites, even is she is not Team Friendly )) ( but she does bring a lot to a team, Kinda some "soft" CC, Some OVershield, and some stripping armor up to a certain point ) .. Or That they are pale Copy of those said frames (Nezha being technically a Baby Rhino with more mobility which  people make it look super bad but is not that bad .. (I salute and respect every player who play him)) (Khora being a mix of Harrow 1's as her 2 but less good as it is now, her 3 healing better than Oberon, but ultra more clunky and unresponsive,  her 1 even with stat stick has less damage and can't gain "combo" like Atlas 1 did and her 4 being a CC that when too much Range, makes it harder for the team to kill the enemies, but can still take some aggro which is cool (BTW I still love Khora to death , and maybe the next patch, will fix her 3 and 2, and 1 (if they give it a combo counter à la Atlas )))

-------------------------------------------------------------

AS for Saryn Changes ...  I'm not a Saryn main,but I still play her frequently in all different mode because she is good in almost everything except Stealthy things...   I'm mostly happy about all the changes ..  But the Spores changing from Viral to corrosive is a straight nerf .. even with the upping of  damage .. If they are still damn hard to give her armor reduction, put it on her 4  and a flat %armor reduction , or a cloud that lingers and strip armor as good as the new  suggested Spores for Public play  and call it a day ...  Her 4 at the moment is mostly useless .,,, Viral being on her 4 makes no sense, because of Cast time (so putting yourself in danger in casting it ) of her 4, kinda small range + High energy cost of the skill for a viral proc that wont remain as the Spore now (you can almost maintain 100% uptime of viral atm with the spore)  

Edited May 12, 2018 by MunsuLight

[MunsuLight]

il y a 27 minutes, RiouHotaru a dit :

The game is not balanced around CP

The game will never be balanced around CP

The game should never be balanced around CP.

The idea that "But 4x CP!" Is somehow a legitimate counter-argument is ridiculous.  The game will never be balanced around meta.

So you are saying organized play can go to hell ?  and it is funny that you only take the CP part of all my speech .. 

I  said  countless times in this thread ... .... Keep her 1 Viral .. and Give her 4 a  real stripping armor capability , either a flat% amount or something similar to the suggested spores thing scalable by PS .. It will still make useable in non CP setup and as you said not balanced about meta.. but It will also make people who play in organized team setup do not care about her 4 ... So where is the problem .. Corrosive spores is the only point I Disagree about all the changes .. And A lot of people in this thread share the same feeling and fears about it this changes..  I see some people happy about it .. But if the same people were presented with a Miasma Stripping armor Efficiently, will they say the same about Corrosive spores being a good Idea? 

I'm just trying to see beyond the scope of the suggested changes .. And trying to  give some idea about how they couldnt change 4-1 Elemental types .. Isnt what it called feedback .. You can disagree with it .. But corrosive spores being good only grineer corrupted  + viral proc on something dangerous to use in late game setup .. as opposed as Viral Spores good against a lot of factions + the possibility of her 4 Stripping armor seems better for diversity (and yes it will be dangerous to strip armor but in ultra late game(im not talking sortie level , or Elite onslaught but beyond that), everyone who are serious has optimized no armor setup either in weapons or Aura choices )

I'm happy about the new interactions they are created.. I'm also ok without them removing the Molt + Spores Interaction and some others one ..  

Just dont focus on the CP point when I said they can give armor stripping her other skills in her kit .. (mostly her 4)

And I dont want to attack you directly, but I dont like being "parroted" on strictly one point when I give ideas about non CP team .. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by MunsuLight

[blazinvire]

Well, Saryn main here, and the changes seem to be pretty okay, bringing her up to compete with some of these newer Warframes and their newfangled ability sets that do everything bar tie your shoelaces.  Can only imagine how frustrating it is for Loki mains when Octavia has an invulnerable-super-deadly-traveling-decoy and infinite invisibility that doesn't require butchering your stats with corrupted mods.

Gives things a new spin while still preserving much of the old, like throwing on a new coat of paint on your Warframe, it'll probably breathe new life into her for awhile.

But I will say I feel more intrigued about the audio changes than any of the ability changes, so make of that what you will.

The removal of the Spores/Lash energy return did raise some concern, but that's more a symptom of the whacked Energy System this game has, than any actual issues with Saryn's design.  It just means one less method to keep our energy up in the face of an army of Arcane Disruptors and Energy Leech auras, leaving us that much more likely to be on the 'Empty' side of the Binary Energy problem.