(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[Marekthejester]

The U.I isn't finished yet. Why did they pushed an unfinished U.I will you ask ? Because they need to be sure every step to the final U.I works well else the all system will fail. I would say to be patient, this is only the very first step toward the new U.I, so thing will most likely improve with next steps. 

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LordBartimus said:

Reverting to an old update and changing the system back would ruin it for people too. M&K support has been a long standing want and to just nix that would also be upsetting. I'm not saying you aren't Aloud to dislike this update, but being immovable and just telling "CHANGE IT NOW" is not the discussion the Devs are looking for. Look at my last posts here, they include actual feedback that can be used. Do the same and you might see a change

What console-only player actually WANTS to be bogged down and have their gameplay crippled to the point of unplayability by being forced to switch from over thirty years of needing only one input device to three? And while we're at it, why would M&K players want to go from two input devices to three?   Earlier, someone tried to tell me that many console games use M&K. That's true, but I and many other console gamers don't have these games in our libraries because we don't want to play them. So again I ask: why should console players be forced to buy M&K for ONE title in their games list just because a small group wants it?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

19 minutes ago, Koldraxon-732 said:

Did you not read about UI 3.0?

The virtual cursor and the 'rewiring' of all the console controller keybinds for UI was in preparation for unifying console and PC UI controls so that when UI 3.0 ships out, DE can then dispose of UI 2.0 over time (since, based on what information is out there, UI 2.0 is a pile of spaghetti code and that means any changes could kill that UI).

Steve, among others, was also likely inspired by how some games had a virtual cursor (like Mass Effect's star chart using the ship as the cursor, so to speak, or, more recently, Destiny (2) with it's 'innovative' UI).

In length and in short, the current UI state is 2.25, 3.0 will look familiar, but very different. Check this Twitter for evidence. It's in the spoiler due to the formatting and sheer size of Twitter embeds.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

A question I asked elsewhere is whether in fixing all the brokenness caused by the removal of spaghetti code (which required them to hustle out hotfixes to patch) by hustling out hot fixes, did they reintroduce spaghetti code? 

If that is how they fixed it, then that line of reasoning as justification, can be rejected out of hand, in hindsight. 

 

[TwoWolves]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

To be fair even without polling player feedback the number that dislike this UI is much, much higher than 90%. You only need to go in-game and read the chat to understand how universally disliked the current version of the cursor UI is. I know that the poster can't prove the 90% value but even the players that like the new UI are unhappy with its performance right now. And 90% is easy to prove, just ask a random sampling of 10 players; it'd probably be 100% in most cases.

That doesn't make it factual, that makes it supposition, a belief. Please don't take what I'm about to say personally. This isn't an attack on you; I'm merely stating the position I am arguing from. You're awesome, I love debating with you. I actually agree with you about the chat being heavily tilted towards dislike, but I can't give you numbers, and therefore can't say for sure if it's truly a case where more people dislike it than like it, or if it merely seems that way because not all 152,769 (or whatever it is) players are on the chat at the same time. Unless you can back up what you are claiming to "know" with actual numbers or other proof, is OPINION. PERIOD. 

This isn't open for debate, and hasn't been since Socrates established the rules of proper forum debate in Ancient Greece. If you cannot prove your 90% assertion, then you have ZERO right to say it in a debate and claim it as FACT. If it's much, much higher than 90%, prove it. Otherwise, you MUST admit ahead of time that it is merely conjecture and opinion (and that's okay--not saying it's not okay to express your opinion, just label it as such, and don't try to pass it off as reality). You can't just enter into a debate and start throwing around numbers and claiming things like that without proof; doing so does nothing but erode the point you are trying to make.

How is 90% easy to prove? Have you asked a random sampling of players? No. And 10 players doesn't constitute a random sampling. Statistically, 10 people is 0.001% of Warframe's player base (also not a fact, just purely conjectural). If you asked a random sampling of 5,000 people, that would be different. Then you would be able to claim with some reasonability that your sample was representative of the majority. "It'd probably be" is not "It most certainly is," or even, "It most likely is."

Why is it so hard for this latest generation to understand the basic points of debating? Do they not teach debate class in school anymore? If you want to come on the forums, claiming to speak for the majority, don't. You speak for yourself, and you may even speak for your clan and/or Alliance. You don't, however, speak for the majority of all Warframe players. Alluding to some random percentage that is a majority that you don't speak for is not factual or helpful. It clouds the issue because it makes it seem as though you are speaking from a position of inside knowledge and the fact is, you are not. 

Here's a helpful list of phrases to avoid in forum debates: "Most of the people" "Most of you." "Most of us." "They" "We all"

Phrases to use in forum debates: "I believe" "I think that" "It seems to me that" "It looks like" "It may be" "I feel that"

Notice all the "I" statements? Also notice that it's always couched in a way where it's clear that this is just my two cents and not necessarily representative of the facts.

Again, I agree with you about the chat--there is a lot of ill-will there (but then again, it's the chat--a Warframe version of 4chan, if you will). I've seen it with my own eyes, but I won't give a number because that's impossible, and it's impossible to say for certain how bad it is. Here's the problem, the people on the forums amount to what is seemingly a few hundred very vocal members whose collective voice is louder (and thus gives the illusion of right-ness) than those who don't mind it. And this isn't taking into account the percentage of people who hate the new UI, but just don't give enough of a flying frell to post about it. Same applies to those who like it but don't post.

I myself fall into the camp of, I like the idea and the direction, but yeah, it definitely could have used some polish before the rollout.

The forums are a microcosm of the Warframe universe. The issue is not so black and white as people would believe, but it's also not completely one-sided, either. If you want to be fair as you claim, be fair to both sides (and there most assuredly is two sides, or there'd be zero discussion because there'd be nothing to debate). You guys might say this is semantics, but we are having a debate, right? Well, let's keep the debate grounded in what we know for sure and can absolutely say with 100% certainty as fact. It isn't mere semantics when you are trying to establish what is and isn't worthy of debating, and I'm not talking about the topic. The point of contention here is whether or not a majority of PS4 users dislike the UI, and if that's provable. Since it's not provable (yet), it's not worth debating further until DE puts up an official poll.

29 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Because from the sound of things every time they go to assemble the console version they apparently have to rebuild the UI which is a step that eats a lot of development time over time. So by making a unified UI they won't have to take that extra step which means faster turnaround times for the console versions of the newest PC content. 

What I've been saying the whole time. With what @(XB1)Kavriel said about the controllers and the built-in track pads, I think this is probably the direction they're heading. Not a keyboard and mouse (so we can put that theory to bed finally--no more, "Ermergerd! I'm not buying a K&M for one game!"), but a trackpad on the controller. Not specifically saying that about Warframe as @Koldraxon-732 posted Steve Sinclair's twitter post in which he says clearly that it's to unify PC and console UI coding and tie it to the d-pad.

I feel a bit vindicated.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

 

What I've been saying the whole time. With what @(XB1)Kavriel said about the controllers and the built-in track pads, I think this is probably the direction they're heading. Not a keyboard and mouse (so we can put that theory to bed finally--no more, "Ermergerd! I'm not buying a K&M for one game!"), but a trackpad on the controller. Not specifically saying that about Warframe as @Koldraxon-732 posted Steve Sinclair's twitter post in which he says clearly that it's to unify PC and console UI coding and tie it to the d-pad.

I feel a bit vindicated.

I could respond to the first part. You've good points and weaker ones. Doesn't really matter to me though so 'meh'. 

 

This last part though is actually not good at all in my mind. I had a similar thought when I saw the dialogue you two had and I didn't like it at all. 

 

The touchpad is great for simple gesture controls. I shudder to think about trying to use my huge old fingers to try and direct a cursor onto tiny hitboxes in the menus. Hell I even hate the heck out of those crazy digital signature things in stores and banks. Of course my signature won't match, of course so many of them are scratched up by people with pens. Give me a branch to write in the sand take a picture with a Google satellite and it'll work better than that for crying out loud. 

[TwoWolves]

Yeah, that touchpad would have to come a long way...still, the idea of using your thumb on the touchpad to just move the cursor over quickly is nothing if not elegant. The controllers will have to be more pricey for the better quality touchpad tech to be incorporated. But yeah, the long term trend over the next decade or two I believe will be that PCs and consoles will become synonymous with each other, and the only question then will be, controller or K&M, depending on where you are in the house and what you're doing on it. I predict the controllers themselves will become slightly larger, but not much, to accommodate an actual trackpad like on a laptop, even if slightly smaller a version.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

@TwoWolves

I understand what you are saying and in most cases I would agree. Like if someone said 42% of DE's revenue comes from prime access I'd really want to see the source for myself. The issue here us that we are talking about feelings, not facts. So when someone says that 90% of players 'hate' the UI it's not something that can easily be tracked like sales figures. In this case we are talking about the sentiment, not the actual number.

Also, if someone says that they don't mind the UI but they can understand why so many dislike it because X, Y, and Z are not working, do they like the UI? They never really stated that they did and cited 3 reasons why others do not. So really the answer is not just a yes or a no, but has several shades of gray. Quick addition: How you phrase the question can also influence the result. So if I asked 'Do you like the new UI?' I would get more positive responses than if I asked 'Do you like the new UI more than the previous version?'. So emotional statistics are very easy to influence as well.

Anyway, the point is that while no one has proven that 90% of players dislike the new UI the general sentiment is that it is far worse than before. Asking for someone to prove the 90% figure misses the point of it being about emotions, not statistics. And as I noted, I can prove the 90% figure easily enough, but in the end it would still be a random sampling of a small group with a high deviation so who really cares? That's not the point. It's like writing to your audience so when you wrote an academic paper you have different standards to uphold than when you write a document to colleagues or an email to friends.

So in summary I'm not disagreeing with you, I just think that you missed the point of the 90% value. Would it make a difference if it was 76% after extensive polling? If the accuracy of the results don't matter then it's more about the feelings of those values and 90% is a good estimate right now, a very generous one actually.

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

57 minutes ago, Marekthejester said:

The U.I isn't finished yet. Why did they pushed an unfinished U.I will you ask ? Because they need to be sure every step to the final U.I works well else the all system will fail. I would say to be patient, this is only the very first step toward the new U.I, so thing will most likely improve with next steps. 

Precisely!  They are testing as they go, because otherwise if they released a buggy mess all at once, they'd just have spaghetti-bug-code to untangle and it could completely screw over Warframe altogether.    People need to stop over-exaggerating. . It's not "trash".  Not even close.  Just a new system to learn, and new things take time to perfect. 

[TwoWolves]

Haha! I totally get what you're saying. We're arguing for the same point from two sides. lol I prefer facts and figures (most likely because of OCPD), devoid of emotion, whereas in this debate, emotion is kind of hard to avoid. That just brings me back to questioning how large a sampling are the members on this forum who are posting in this thread and others? Not that I'm looking for numbers, but just trying to establish the point that the forums and the chat are a microcosm of the whole totality of the Warframe player list. And being a microcosm, it seems that the emotional content seems to get concentrated down to where things can get volatile more quickly, if that makes sense...

If I had to say a hard number for sure, I'd definitely agree that over half the comments on the chat are against the UI, but beyond that is anyone's guess. That's based on what I've seen. But that's about as vague as I can get. I get what you're saying, though, about using "90%" in place when you mean, "Most." It's an emotional response based on the gut feeling about something. Unfortunately, we as humans have terrible instinct when it comes to gut feelings, as you can find on innumerable websites that show how the mind plays tricks on us with our perceptions. That's why I prefer the numbers, myself. lol No room for error. 

[(PSN)HarigeVINCE]

It's actually really simple y'all

If we console players wanted to use mouse and keyboard we would just play this free game on pc... The pc port games that don't get rid of the cursor on console actually feel LESS polished.

So I understand giving a controller option to pc players, but vice versa is just... Bad interaction design

 

interaction design 101:

Check your target audience, check their needs, make it as smooth and self-evident as possible.

So in short: this is going BACKWARDS in terms of usability on console. This isn't even an opinion, it's a straight fact according to interaction design, sadly.

So please give D-pad absolute priority over the cursor (atm it's the other way around, cursor overrides D-pad) OR make the cursor a toggle option OR simply remove the cursor if it's such a hassle.

PS: I'm not devbashing, I'm honestly trying to make you (DE) see the true reality, and I hope stubbornness won't kill this game on console

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

1 minute ago, TwoWolves said:

Haha! I totally get what you're saying. We're arguing for the same point from two sides. lol I prefer facts and figures (most likely because of OCPD), devoid of emotion, whereas in this debate, emotion is kind of hard to avoid. That just brings me back to questioning how large a sampling are the members on this forum who are posting in this thread and others? Not that I'm looking for numbers, but just trying to establish the point that the forums and the chat are a microcosm of the whole totality of the Warframe player list. And being a microcosm, it seems that the emotional content seems to get concentrated down to where things can get volatile more quickly, if that makes sense...

If I had to say a hard number for sure, I'd definitely agree that over half the comments on the chat are against the UI, but beyond that is anyone's guess. That's based on what I've seen. But that's about as vague as I can get. I get what you're saying, though, about using "90%" in place when you mean, "Most." It's an emotional response based on the gut feeling about something. Unfortunately, we as humans have terrible instinct when it comes to gut feelings, as you can find on innumerable websites that show how the mind plays tricks on us with our perceptions. That's why I prefer the numbers, myself. lol No room for error. 

Yeah, polling would be pointless as it has more to do with anger than about the facts. Again, I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that the results don't actually matter so even if they retract the 90% figure, does it make any difference? The UI is still far worse than before based on the number of UI bugs alone so it has very little benefit right now.

And yes, there is a whole psychology to manipulating people to provide more positive results. As I added to my previous post just phrasing the question differently can skew the data. So it looks like we agree completely, we are just coming from different sides. Cheers!

[(PSN)DANNYSAN__]

En 8/6/2018 a las 15:22, [DE]Danielle dijo:

Hey Tenno, checking in before the weekend to give you an update on what we've been up to with the virtual cursor. The following is a list of priority items we've been working on improving/fixing and will continue work on as most do require a lot of testing and fine tuning:

• Improving the navigating speed in certain menus when using the D-Pad. 
• Fixing the D-Pad skipping over items in menu lists.
• Fixing the D-Pad not working in the World State Window. 
• Fixing the D-Pad landing on invisible menu items (this affects menus across the game, so will require quite a bit of time to test).
• Fixing being unable to use RB/R1 and LB/R2 quick buttons in any menu if you close the pause menu in Navigation while the matchmaking drop-down bar is open.
• Fixing being unable to select player list options in chat when using the D-Pad.

We can't say enough how much we appreciate your feedback and bug reporting. As always you guys are a tremendous part of Warframe's growth! 

 

How difficult is it to accept the error and return to the previous system?

are we lab mice?

Nobody on the team understands that this is a console and we do not want a cursor?

... apparently the: "we listen to our community" is a half truth

plis, plis, plissssssssssssss

[(XBOX)psyops6]

5 hours ago, TwoWolves said:

*checks the console device in your name*

...wait...*starts to recall strange lag on the PS4*...damn...you're right! I've noticed it, too, and thought it was the crappy network I'm on, but now that you mention it, I have noticed that lag, too. I've noticed it in survival missions with a three or more players. Lots of lag and delay where the screen will freeze for 1-2 seconds, then catch up. This only happens on PS4, so I gotta assume it has to do with the new UI's implementation.

I quoted this earlier to state that its happening on Xbox also. I seem to be touching some nerves because this makes multiple times that my posts have been deleted without explanation.

http://www.strawpoll.me/15863658

Let's see if it gets deleted again...

 

 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

/\ I think the lag you guys are speaking of is probably caused by GPU particles.   I cranked mine up to high when they came out but noticed that lag(1-2 second stutters).   So I dropped it back down to medium and havent really noticed lag since.   

As of 6/10/2018 it seems like some of the hotfixes to UI have been UNDONE???   

Did DE only give relic previews when you were picking them for fissures??   Back at your relic station the previews are GONE.   Dojo building still have click to preview and double click to choose.   Why is it taking so long to get those changes to every area of the game.   This is every day functionality stuff so the fixes should be coming ASAP.... 

I dont have obstacles courses built im still trying to find places in my dojo to make them fit so im using the dojo menus alot right now.  And im also trying to grab another nekro before he is gone so im having to play with relics to. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

16 hours ago, TwoWolves said:

Wait, doesn't the PS4 have a touchscreen/trackpad on it's controller? I'm near my PC, not my PS4 (it's in a completely different geographic location), which is why I ask as I've only been using this PS4 for about two weeks. Why not tie it to the trackpad? Wouldn't that be faster and a much more elegant solution? No keyboard or mouse necessary, just your controller with it's trackpad.

If it doesn't, I'm willing to bet that the next incarnation of controllers will have this feature as cross-platform gaming comes into the mainstream, or at least, there is more and more porting of games back and forth.

Yes we have a touch pad on the controller and it is garbage by the way. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

On 2018-06-10 at 8:48 AM, (PS4)Unstar said:

My current roadblock that keeps me from playing the game is the inability to rotate my Warframe while using the color picker or previewing skins/accessories.  I just got a new Warframe and was excited to decorate it, but if I want to preview colors, I can now only see them from one angle, and I can't see how the different textures glint in the light by rotating my Warframe.  I also used to use this menu to preview what skins and accessories would look like on a Warframe with my current color scheme before I bought them, but again, now I can only see it from a single angle at a time, as opposed to 360 degrees and being able to rotate and see the cloth physics of syndanas, etc.

I'm frustrated because I now can't do something that has become an integral part of my decorating process, something that I've taken for granted for so long.  I probably spend a third of my game time decorating my frames, because the customization aspect brings me so much joy.  But now I don't even want to deal with the headache.  I hope you can bring this (and the other features people are missing) back.

Yep, I was going to fashion frame my Khora but then stopped when I realized that I cannot change colors and rotate at the same time. I just said eff it and left the frame alone. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

On 2018-06-09 at 3:38 PM, (PS4)amortentialis said:

Hello!

I'd love to make a bit of feedback on the cursor discussion. I'd also want to make excuses in advance because English is not my native and I will definitely make mistakes. I'll try to be as clear as I can.

We on PS4 have received several hotfixes since update 22.20.6 which fixed hot-keys on arsenal, drag-n-drop system of modding and other problems. 

But actually problems remain and they mostly apply to chats and inviting/talking to people. I've faced following problem that is crucial for me:

• after writing messages to several people (in trading or recruiting channel), i.e. pm-ing them in a row, I cannot click on any nickname to choose an option (talk/invite/ignore) or linked item. When everything is good and I point a cursor on the nickname, the text usually becomes yellow. When this problem happens the text remains white like there is no cursor at all. It looks like a cursor has a cooldown to start working again.

I have a video that can prove my words, though I cannot show that I clicked X to call a list of actions. But you can see that pointing cursor on a name result as nothing. 

Please, do something with it. I understand there may be technical difficulties with bringing old UI to consoles, but at least give all of us option to choose whether we want to use cursor or not. This problem makes me lose platinum, lose squads and lose my time when I'm trying to fix the problem (I've never succeeded to fix it though). I also do not want to buy a keyboard or mouse for this game because it's a waste of money for me. All I want is playing and trading. 

Thank you.

Its a bug. I have to switch to a different activity like going to the arsenal or relic refinement to get the chat to start working again. A lot of time I will click on someones name and nothing happens. Or I will click on a name and get the options to talk etc but when trying to select from the list, it does nothing. This is pretty annoying. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

On 2018-06-09 at 6:00 PM, (PS4)willsp282012 said:

oh and it would be helpful to have a cursor speed setting, the cusor seems a bit slow

Its on the first page in the option menu. 

[(PSN)willitical]

2 hours ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Its on the first page in the option menu. 

ok ill have a look ty

[(XBOX)Dragon R98]

Can we get the option to change back at so people who do like it have it and people who don’t aren’t forced to be stuck with it

[(PSN)Fourd_4D]

On the topic of D-Pad functionality I feel that whatever your final UI decisions for Sacrifice turn out to be, it really should have full D-Pad functionality without the need to ever actually use the cursor for complete navigation. Console players, and I feel many PC users too, greatly desire full controller support that does not require a free-floating cursor and allows for a menu-locked type cursor.

One of the issues I am experiencing right now seems to be caused by the intention of cursor navigation interfering with the support for D-Pad navigation. Namely scrolling. As it is, if you are using the D-Pad to navigate a scrolling menu and you reach the edge of the list, it will not scroll as you continue to press the D-Pad in the same direction. Upon using the Right Stick to scroll the menu, the cursor remains locked on the side of the list where it formerly was, quickly skipping over an entire chunk of options which would have logically been "next" on the list in the order scrolling was intended. I feel it fair to label that extremely unintuitive to D-Pad users.

[TwoWolves]

BUG REPORT:

Cursor jumps off the ribbon at the top of the foundry screen (the ribbon with the filters on it) if you hit X to try to select one via cursor. It only works with the L1 and R1 buttons.

[(XBOX)Kebiru25]

22 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

And again this shows you haven't seen how the UI works or have forgotten, and haven't been reading whats being said. The UI I am talking about is the UI that isn't released yet, not the one currently in the game. Ignore the look of the UI we have had over the past 2 years, it is no longer relevant because it is being replaced. They are rolling the new UI out over time, last we heard starting with The Sacrifice. The virtual cursor could be practically ignored in it by controller users because button snapping worked on it with the D-pad, just like before. They showed it can swap to cursor seamlessly by using the sticks instead of the pad. At that point the cursor is more for opening KB+M on console, which has been heavily requested, and for minor use for users that want to use sticks over the D-pad. They can also tweak the responsiveness of the cursor to make it more usable on both console and controller PC, so that is what DE is looking for feedback on. Also again, they cant have an option to swap between them, because doing an option triples the work needed to make the UI aspects of the game each update and completely invalidates the reason for even doing the update to begin with by making take even more time than it did before. Eliminating the two UI versions they currently have to make and unifying it to one version allows faster updates, more work on content vs porting, KB+M support on console, better controller support on PC, and customization options on the UI, which we do not know the full breadth of the UI customization, but options have been requested for quite a long while now.

I realize that we (and the rest of the thread) are going around in circles, but the fact that this thread has gotten this heated shows that the people who wanted this change are the minority. The "look" of the UI is not the issue and to think that a cursor makes or brakes The Sacrifice quest is frankly absurd. The implementation of this UI was overlooked by the base. Base ie: the majority that can't sit around at 2pm for Dev Streams waiting for updates to the game. Yes I did not read up on the changes. All I did was log on, as usual, to casually calm my mind up.

If DE wanted a integrated UI shared by both PC and console, they should have texted it with REAL console players in their team first instead of putting it out there and saying "Sorry, we fix it later." 

Look, your a PC gamer, so I don't think you care about us consoles. Fine. But stop defending something that you were never be affected by. You and every other PC gamer telling us to get over it is like a slap it the face. The overall problem with the UI is that we were forced to integrate to your standards without even a thought to our feelings... whatever, I'm talking

[(XBOX)Kebiru25]

10 hours ago, TwoWolves said:

Haha! I totally get what you're saying. We're arguing for the same point from two sides. lol I prefer facts and figures (most likely because of OCPD), devoid of emotion, whereas in this debate, emotion is kind of hard to avoid. That just brings me back to questioning how large a sampling are the members on this forum who are posting in this thread and others? Not that I'm looking for numbers, but just trying to establish the point that the forums and the chat are a microcosm of the whole totality of the Warframe player list. And being a microcosm, it seems that the emotional content seems to get concentrated down to where things can get volatile more quickly, if that makes sense...

If I had to say a hard number for sure, I'd definitely agree that over half the comments on the chat are against the UI, but beyond that is anyone's guess. That's based on what I've seen. But that's about as vague as I can get. I get what you're saying, though, about using "90%" in place when you mean, "Most." It's an emotional response based on the gut feeling about something. Unfortunately, we as humans have terrible instinct when it comes to gut feelings, as you can find on innumerable websites that show how the mind plays tricks on us with our perceptions. That's why I prefer the numbers, myself. lol No room for error. 

I wonder, does your assessment of likes/dislikes account for the commenters that are PC players who are not affected by the UI/cursor change?

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

There is a path from what we have now to something that takes the good parts of the older UI and grafts them onto the new UI. For instance, if they fix the current d-pad animation issues, add d-pad scrolling and hide the cursor after you hit the d-pad and show it again when you use the left stick there's really not that much difference. They could also snap the cursor to the top of a menu when you open it if the menu was opened from a d-pad positioned it (this has some additional complexity, but might be doable).

If this becomes about PC/console identity it will never have a good outcome because PC/console identity isn't a good starting point for that conversation. There are dozens of concerns around how they develop the UI now and in the future and DE has stated that they put out an inferior product. They're not arguing against that. But they still have to do that balancing act.

In UX circles it's well understood that blind adherence to what individual customers demand produces a sh**ty product. People aren't UX designers and they don't understand the needs of people who aren't themselves typically. They don't understand the cost of software maintenance and they don't understand the realities of a software development shop. Blinding doing what your customers demand, especially in anger, generally leads to a company's downfall. And the fact that the customer is the one paying doesn't change that calculus.

DE has years of experience and probably decades of console UX experience under their belt. That this got out in this state is a sorrowful affair, but it doesn't change the fact that DE knows what it has to do and it will move towards something that fits all those different design and product needs. And, if this was enough to make you take your ball and go home it feels like it was inevitable that something would happen to make you do that. Companies always have S#&$ty releases, even ones that have decades long track records. Frankly, the threat of leaving after something like this rings hollow anyway. Typically either people are deluding themselves and will be back, or they were on the verge of leaving anyways and this was the final straw.

DE's best bet is to continue working towards something great, listening to users but leaving their product owners and designers in control, and communicating with their user base. It sounds like that's what they're doing so I'm not worried. And going on and on about how big the mob is or how wrong they were to put this release out or even just how dedicated a customer you were and how many hours you've played don't help solve the problem. And I would implore you -- as someone who wants to see the UI improved -- that we stay focused on information that DE doesn't already have --namely, bugs and UI weirdness. The rest will resolve itself.