(XB1/PS4) Virtual Cursor Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

And that is exactly the problem as DE broke the controller UI right before a major update and Tennocon so it will take longer to get QoL fixes patched.

I was posting it for the people who didn’t know about it and were wondering, but alright then.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 hours ago, (XB1)psyops6 said:

I've already told you I don't want to post results to a poll that is tallying, nimrod. I post the poll link so the intelligent people here can cast a vote. I don't suppose you've figured out how a poll works?

Thanks for the compliment, I would rather they completely resolve all issues instead of them throwing sloppy code at the game little by little.

  You just keep enjoying that spaghetti, I want results. Now stop being a troll.

Anyone else with sense, please vote on this poll: 

http://www.strawpoll.me/15863658/r

 

Not you guz man...

You don't want to post results to a poll that's tallying? Odd. Might want to check the link you posted twice in a row. 😂I don't suppose you have figured out how the code in your url works? BTW Nimrod was renowned as a mighty hunter and king. Thank you for thinking so highly of me. 

 

You're most welcome, unfortunately you seem to have missed the fact that the update you are complaining about was literally their attempt to "completely resolve all issues instead of them throwing sloppy code at the game little by little". Seriously go read some of the posts. You might start understanding what people have been saying. 

 

Accusing me of being a troll because you lack enough reference material to begin to grasp what I'm saying is a really weak strategy. My response is 'Dunning-Kreuger', see your quoted link for proof thereof. 

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

 

You might want to educate yourself on version control software, try out git, it's open source, free, and pretty popular. The console builds are undoubtedly created off "branches" initially cloned from the last pc release, while the "trunk" code that is targeted for the next pc release moves along getting the latest bleeding edge changes. Selected changes from the trunk (important fixes, etc.) can be pulled into the console branch, and after the console version is released, it's probably merged back into the trunk.

The point being, change history for every file is available, so it would certainly be possible to revert just the UI code changes while preserving the changes to Saryn, Tennogen, etc. to produce a new console build. It might even be that the old UI code is still available for conditional compilation, just like other "platform" specific code.

It's all academic though, DE doesn't want to do this as it would just be a stop-gap measure while they move forward with their UI 2.0 plans, and I can't fault them for that. What I do fault them for is pulling the trigger on this stuff WAY too early. There was nothing in our last build that needed the virtual cursor enabled, we could have kept the old code until the new UI code was deemed complete and actually ready for proper feedback and bug reports on obscure (not obvious!) bugs.

Now we're pretty much hosed until DE has a chance finish the UI re-implementation. If the current state of the UI frustrates you as much as it does me, it's best to take a break and give DE a chance to prove they can create an acceptable controller UI with a virtual cursor; I think they can but they need to stop being so obstinate (adding labels back to the inventory screen but making it an option that doesn't default to on doesn't bode if you ask me).

I also wouldn't put too much stock into the mention of "spaghetti code", software developers like to grumble, especially about code they didn't write personally. What we know about that spaghetti code is that is was pounded and debugged into existence over the years to get to a very functional state, that "fresh" replacement code will bring along a whole slew of new bugs for the foreseeable future, it's not some panacea, and what we have currently wasn't nearly ready for public consumption.

The virtual cursor wasn't the only way to clean up the spaghetti code either, new "clean" platform independent code to better support controller input *could* be written too!

Why? I don't work in software development. I don't need to work in software to grasp either what you're saying or what has already been said by DE and others. It's like me suggesting that you learn to code directly in machine language. It's an admirable pursuit in and of itself but sort of pointless. Are you sure you didn't mean to suggest it to someone else? I mean I understand the whole concept of modular code and have played with different coding languages in the past, but it has been suggested (by a member claiming to have years of experience in UIs etc. ) that sometimes it's not that simple to make what should be simple changes. 

 

Obviously whatever system they're working with has some disadvantages, and the delay in coming out on console is tied to that. The fact that you have to take your completed/working code and then kludge fixes onto it in order to roll it out to a significant portion of your customer base, which may need hotfixes to patch up once released, is a good indication that you're not using a streamlined system. 

Pretty sure we ALL agree that the original update was a mess, didn't take the PC users feedback into consideration and was, in general, a very bad idea. 

Unfortunately I disagree that taking a break is the best option. My time on this forum has shown me that self reinforcing echo chambers don't help anyone. They obviously couldn't find all the bugs on their own, or apparently even initially grasp that there were significant issues that needed fixing instead of 'deal with it' type responses. 

We complained and even explained why, and they listened. They seem to have taken our complaints and are working on giving us at least some of the functionality we are asking for. New suggestions keep being added, and I am hopeful that sooner or later we will get back to 'good'. If we were all on break, what would they hear other than 'oh I stopped playing weeks ago I'm just here for the popcorn', 'we hate the new UI give us back the old one', 'I made this poll weeks ago and it's up to 80 people please take it, here's a broken link' and, 'DE you're the best, we believe in you, can I name my child after you guys'? None of those will help me get to play the game any sooner. 

 

I agree that they can and should build the ultimate product to include better controller interfaces (preferably one where we can choose which setup works best for us) and have them work and have repeatedly mentioned it in the past. I agree that the timing was disastrous, and I agree that what we have isn't yet better than what we lost. 

 

But I am seeing improvements and we've has a bunch of subreleases that have fixed various issues. I have no reason to believe that will stop any time soon. Do you? 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, (PS4)IRaQiFiRE said:

*Get rid of drag and drop mods!

*The "NEW" UI updates ARE not controller friendly!

_____________________________________________________________

@DE by far the worst company I've ever seen in my life regarding controller support!!!

_____________________________________________________________

Didn't they fix the drag and drop mods in the arsenal a while ago? I have been levelling weapons and frames and changing stuff in the builds a bit recently and don't recall having to drag and drop mods. I'll check again later, but I'm pretty certain about it. 

When's the last time you got a update/played the game? Are you using a standard ps4 controller? 

Edit: yeah it's not like it was just after the update, they stick as soon as you press x, so all you have to do is press on the d-pad to go up or down. You can move them around with left analog stick as well if you want. Not really significantly different to how it used to work pre-update, just that instead of highlighting the mod in place it stick to the cursor which you had to move to the spot you wanted before. 

 

What exactly is the problem with it as far as you see it? 

Edited June 22, 2018 by (PS4)guzmantt1977
Tested the 'drag and drop' function to confirm how it works.

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Unfortunately I disagree that taking a break is the best option. My time on this forum has shown me that self reinforcing echo chambers don't help anyone. They obviously couldn't find all the bugs on their own, or apparently even initially grasp that there were significant issues that needed fixing instead of 'deal with it' type responses. 

We complained and even explained why, and they listened. They seem to have taken our complaints and are working on giving us at least some of the functionality we are asking for. New suggestions keep being added, and I am hopeful that sooner or later we will get back to 'good'. If we were all on break, what would they hear other than 'oh I stopped playing weeks ago I'm just here for the popcorn', 'we hate the new UI give us back the old one', 'I made this poll weeks ago and it's up to 80 people please take it, here's a broken link' and, 'DE you're the best, we believe in you, can I name my child after you guys'? None of those will help me get to play the game any sooner. 

I don't believe for a second that they can't find most of these issues internally (someone at DE added a bunch of QOL ui enhancements these past couple years that are now being paved over); these are a smart, resourceful, and hardworking group of folks. I also don't believe releasing an unfinished ui with zero usability testing and then addressing only the most numerous source of complaints is any sort of sensible methodology.

EDIT: You are correct, drag-drop is not required in the arsenal now.

Edited June 22, 2018 by (PS4)Elvenbane

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

I don't believe for a second that they can't find most of these issues internally (someone at DE added a bunch of QOL ui enhancements these past couple years that are now being paved over); these are a smart, resourceful, and hardworking group of folks. I also don't believe releasing an unfinished ui with zero usability testing and then addressing only the most numerous source of complaints is any sort of sensible methodology.

You know what, I agree with both of those statements. I will however point out that many of those previous QOL changes were made due to "community feedback" collected over many man-hours of testing/playing. Yes I suppose that one small group could possibly find and fix all, but you and I both know that would take significantly more time to do than with a lot constructive comments about what's giving trouble right now. And we both know that's the point I made which you are trying to avoid. 

 

Like I said, if you want to wait until they get the message you are free to do so. They asked for our constructive feedback, and that's what I have been trying to do with comments asking for specific things to be fixed. I think that will lead to a game I can play without too much frustration faster than your suggestion. I'll keep doing that. 

[(PSN)ghinellil]

Sometimes i can't choose the reward i want after a fissure mission 😫

 

[(XBOX)psyops6]

17 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You don't want to post results to a poll that's tallying? Odd. Might want to check the link you posted twice in a row. 😂I don't suppose you have figured out how the code in your url works? BTW Nimrod was renowned as a mighty hunter and king. Thank you for thinking so highly of me. 

Did I capitalize the N in nimrod? Go read the definition of the word. I'm trying to get people to vote on the poll, that's why I post the link nimrod. Now go eat spaghetti. Here, I'll post the poll link again since it irritates you so much.

http://www.strawpoll.me/15863658/r

 

 

Edited June 23, 2018 by (XB1)psyops6

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, (XB1)psyops6 said:

Did I capitalize the N in nimrod? Go read the definition of the word. I'm trying to get people to vote on the poll, that's why I post the link nimrod. Now go eat spaghetti. Here, I'll post the poll link again since it irritates you so much.

http://www.strawpoll.me/15863658/r

 

 

Oh I know what it means, and in my reply I showed that I also know what the origin of it was and that I wasn't bothered by what you said. (I realise in retrospect that it was overly optimistic of me to think that you'd understand all of that. I apologise.) 

 

You still haven't figured out what the r at the end of it does? Wow. That's pretty much all the proof that anyone could ask for that you don't understand even a basic piece of code like a URL and should avoid discussion of topics that you don't understand. 

 

Again I urge you to spend a little time catching up on what's passed in the thread and what DE has said. 

16 hours ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

 

EDIT: You are correct, drag-drop is not required in the arsenal now.

Thanks for confirming. I did some checking and it seems that dude peppered the forum basically saying that he was "not going to play the game ever again!!!eleven!!" back in early June. So he's probably working with outdated information and just hadn't worked it out of his system yet. *shrug*

 

[(XBOX)Leonidas666th]

it doesn't really help that this is only half of the full UI overhaul they're bringing with the sacrifice, yea it's giving DE & the community chance to find & deal with major bugs in the mechanics but as soon as we (atleast those of us that haven't gone nuclear & rage quit) get used to how everything now works with the current menus & stuff, everything else is going to change triggering another wave of bile.

I've just been thinking the overall backlash would be a little better if everything happened in one big go, instead of doing it in 2 parts spead by a month.

I still really dislike this new UI but I'm still playing & doing my best to get used to this system DE seem to have their little hearts set on, I'm just not going to buy Plat for a couple of months instead of rage quitting a damn good game.

 

[(PSN)Outlander83]

13 hours ago, (PS4)ghinellil said:

Sometimes i can't choose the reward i want after a fissure mission 😫

 

Me too. Lost limbo chassis due to this 😠

[(XBOX)psyops6]

8 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

.

End of story nimrod. You are not only a DE expert, but also a historian and url code expert. Hats off to you, now give it a rest already. Just share your phone number and you can run a DE customer service line. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

19 minutes ago, (XB1)psyops6 said:

End of story nimrod. You are not only a DE expert, but also a historian and url code expert. Hats off to you, now give it a rest already. Just share your phone number and you can run a DE customer service line. 

Dude this is simple. All you need to do is actually check out what's been said in the past on this thread. It's a much better strategy than pretending to ignore it's existence, and even polling people for their views, which once had a point. 

If you get caught up with what's going on, I'm sure you will have far better contributions you can make, at least compared to aiming for insults that the other party already told you he doesn't care about. 

 

[(PSN)hellahym]

Well, after all, It seems Im the last guy from my clan who play Warframe... and because I need to farm prime trash for Baro's Tennocon relay.
The UI... you win DE. My only hope is that the chat stops being a bugged mess in a near future.
But is not the only problem: since the update. framerate issues turns some sorties a sad thing to watch.
The whole game feels broken since the update.

Contructive feedback, yes... I have one: Steve, play your game on PS4. Not just 2 minutes, no. Play some hours, or a day maybe.
Then, if you fail to feel rage about how your game is performing on consoles, all is fine: you still love your creation.

 

[(XBOX)AquaDrinkr]

On 2018-06-21 at 6:07 PM, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ok guys it's pretty simple so huddle round: Yes we hate it. Yes we wish we could toggle it. No we can't toggle it. No it's not likely that we will be able to get that soon. The reason is that the functionality we want is literally no longer in the code. They had to take it out because the code was a mess and they needed to rewrite it. 

What we need to do is tell them specifically what is still broken and what they can do to help fix it. Please help them to fix it. Because the faster we can get back to a fully working game with the cursor, the faster we can get to the point where they can possibly remove the blasted thing. Wouldn't that be nice?

You clearly have not interacted with DE very much. They respond best (fastest) to floods of comments. Effectively, we're just echoing each other in the hopes that DE will hear us. 

Also, you have no idea if the code was removed or not. For all we know, they could have simply added the new UI and disabled the old one without actually removing it.

I do agree to some extent to your second statement, about getting the UI as functional as possible, so that we can make it optional.

[(PSN)MANNERLESS]

How long until you fix this god damn cursor? Its been weeks, we wanna play our console properly again. Jesus.

[(PSN)xShizukani]

Make the Cursor Thing optional or make it only activate when you plug in a mouse and keyboard to the console, there's really no reason whatsoever why controller players have to use it when the old ui was perfectly fine, the cursor just makes everything so frustrating and slows things down significantly

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Fevi117 said:

You clearly have not interacted with DE very much. They respond best (fastest) to floods of comments. Effectively, we're just echoing each other in the hopes that DE will hear us. 

Also, you have no idea if the code was removed or not. For all we know, they could have simply added the new UI and disabled the old one without actually removing it.

I do agree to some extent to your second statement, about getting the UI as functional as possible, so that we can make it optional.

Uh, you realise that by that token floods of 'hey look your UI sucks and until you sort it out, at least give us a key-binding to leave a group" would work just as well if not better than "hey your UI sucks, sort it out". It's in fact the only way I can see to get us to a point where it's possible to have something that can be toggled in a timely manner. 

Look at the two posts below yours. Look at the dude who probably hasn't played in weeks and is still complaining about something that was fixed long ago. None of those actually helps us. Someone saying "omg the stupid cursor kept drifting to the right when I was trying to select a reward, I lost out big time" or "dude trying to work on my operator fashion frame here and I can't rotate him any more, wtf? You all need to sort that crap right now!! Rage!" are a million times more helpful. It gives them something to work with and work on. 

 

Re my belief that its gone, I'm working based on what makes sense from what was said. If you have any valid proof that it's not removed just disabled, please, by all means, let's have a look. If it turns out it's been there this whole time, I'll sharpen the metaphorical pitchforks and you can bring the metaphorical torches. 

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)MANNERLESS said:

How long until you fix this god damn cursor? Its been weeks, we wanna play our console properly again. Jesus.

What in particular is giving you a problem right now? Anything in particular other than that there's a cursor? 

1 hour ago, (PS4)xShizukani said:

Make the Cursor Thing optional or make it only activate when you plug in a mouse and keyboard to the console, there's really no reason whatsoever why controller players have to use it when the old ui was perfectly fine, the cursor just makes everything so frustrating and slows things down significantly

Have you tried touching the little buttons with arrows on the controller? You might like the result. Doesn't work for everything yet, but maybe you can suggest specific improvements they can make. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Have you tried touching the little buttons with arrows on the controller? You might like the result. Doesn't work for everything yet, but maybe you can suggest specific improvements they can make. 

I've tried "the little buttons with arrows", they work sporadically and inconsistently, numerous examples have been cited, so no, I didn't care for the result. As for specific suggestions, I've given mine, trivial changes like removing accept with box remain, not being able to scroll with the d-pad, etc. and we hear nothing from DE in the feedback thread they initiated. This thread is to focus player's howls of impotent fury, not feedback.

We're not getting another update until the sacrifice. That will bring new issues, so you may as well save your feedback for that release, the hodge-podge code we have now is already obsolete, DE's console porting teams should be hard at work synching with the latest pc ui changes, the branch we're on now is effectively dead to new development, anything beyond hot fixes required to prevent people from catching on fire has been deferred.

There are a finite number of menus, DE needs to go through each and test it for basic operation before release. You don't get the community to do this, that feedback loop is incredibly slow and inefficient and operating in this way reflects poorly on the company. The community should only find obscure bugs not easily found through a common use test plan.

I don't want an option to disable the cursor, options are great for choosing the lesser of 2 evils. An option will leave controller functionally stuck in the past and prevent the virtual cursor implementation from being refined. It will also be a perpetual porting consideration (affects testing too, but at this point I seriously wonder if there is any internal certification team at DE).

I know I could make this work (auto-hide cursor until left stick is used, etc.), there are already a few nice interactions that weren't possible w/o the cursor, but I already have a job as a software developer, I just want to relax with a game I'd previously enjoyed for years. I actually have to think about what the ui is doing now, it's just silly and frustrating.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

I've tried "the little buttons with arrows", they work sporadically and inconsistently, numerous examples have been cited, so no, I didn't care for the result. As for specific suggestions, I've given mine, trivial changes like removing accept with box remain, not being able to scroll with the d-pad, etc. and we hear nothing from DE in the feedback thread they initiated. This thread is to focus player's howls of impotent fury, not feedback.

We're not getting another update until the sacrifice. That will bring new issues, so you may as well save your feedback for that release, the hodge-podge code we have now is already obsolete, DE's console porting teams should be hard at work synching with the latest pc ui changes, the branch we're on now is effectively dead to new development, anything beyond hot fixes required to prevent people from catching on fire has been deferred.

There are a finite number of menus, DE needs to go through each and test it for basic operation before release. You don't get the community to do this, that feedback loop is incredibly slow and inefficient and operating in this way reflects poorly on the company. The community should only find obscure bugs not easily found through a common use test plan.

 

Odd. DE does seem to have responded, and they started implementing fixes as well as telling us some of the things they're working on fixing. I think that part of the issue is that they're not responding to individuals and their individual comments. I'm fine with that, because it means that they have time to do something a little more useful than responding to each of our suggestions. If you feel otherwise, I sympathise but disagree. 

What iteration of the current build are we on? That's a response. 

 

Yes I think that they should have done better, yes I agree with you that they dropped the ball. Now as someone who has done this sort of thing, tell me, what finds bugs faster, a small group with limited man-hours or a large one with proportionately more contact time?

 

We're here, now. We have a choice: take our spray cans to the wall and vent our frustration, or use the same amount of effort to paint neon circles around what we want fixed. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Now as someone who has done this sort of thing, tell me, what finds bugs faster, a small group with limited man-hours or a large one with proportionately more contact time?

I don't require an individual response, an update in this thread sure would be nice though. I don't follow twitter or wherever else you are suggesting DE is responding to feedback. I do read DE employee posts on this forum.

An internal certification team would discover a huge percentage of the bugs, have a faster turn around time for fixes, and most importantly your customers never have to see them. You can't catch them all, certainly, so that's where the community can help, but that's not where we're at, this is basic functionally that's broken, not "when you do the metronome emote with a pink rhino in maroo's bazaar the game freezes."

You certainly don't crowd source your console debugging when updates are gated by a lengthy certification process that precludes making timely fixes. A conscious decision was made to release in this state, they knew it was a mess, decided they'd fix it later. I can't stress enough that they don't and shouldn't need us to design their ui.

If you've ever been invited into a beta for something like LBP you'd have seen a much better way to handle bug testing, dedicated/monitored forums, bug report forms, known bug lists to reduce duplicate reports, etc. Public forum threads have too much noise for useful dialogue. 

You think you're helping, your optimism is refreshing but I'm old and don't share it. But hey, it's your free time, spend it how you wish and know that I'm rooting for you a DE to make something great while I get back to playing MHW in the meantime. I probably won't post to this thread again, good luck everyone.

[(PSN)Firebrandd]

Sure. Make your circles. On a massive picture where thousands of other circles are being added hourly. Don't point out which circle is yours. Just put your circle up there with no notification or coordinates and expect yours to be seen and addressed. I think at least a wee bit of paint on the venting wall is needed too.

[(PSN)silvia95guy]

So, DE I've given the new UI a solid month and a half, and it's still horrible. This biggest issue are the consistsnt bugs that plague new UI, to a point that a restart is in order, because all control inputs become either completely unresponsive, or the cursor starts skipping around not wanting to select anything. Not to mention in the arsenal when you can't change your setups, due to IDK, the new UI just not wanting to cooperate and do anything? Second would be the currsor... get rid of it, or seriously give us an option to revert back to the old more streamline, efficiant, and buggless Ui we had before. I have 560hrs into this amazing game, then y'all go and "Improve" something that didn't need to be improved upon. It has seriously hindered my enjoyment for this came, and cause such frustration at times that I just choose to close the game and walk away. Seriously, it's happened twice today where the UI just does what it wants to, and makes the game unplayable, no exaggeration if you can't navigate menus or do anything you can't play. I mean, yeah I know I have put a lot of time into Warframe, and if this is a deturant to not play as much, and put that energy and focus somewhere more productive in my life... It's working. 

[(PSN)Immortal_2345]

Hate the new cursor. Spent 10 minutes trying to close PMs but the cursor just wouldn’t work. Had to close app and open the game back up to select anything in the chat bar. We either need a way to opt out of using the cursor entirely, or it needs to only activate when using the left stick. Using the D-pad with the cursor is buggy as hell. Can’t scroll up and down or left and right with the D-pad. Sometimes the cursor just doesn’t respond at all unless you use the left stick. 

Its just a cumbersome system that doesn’t work well. And with how slow updates are for console, especially with this whole going dark thing because of Tenno con, it was a poor choice to implement this now. 

[(PSN)corpusbonds]

Ok, so, I’m not sure if this will quell any harsh feelings stemming from the DE leaving us in the dark, but about the 17 minute mark DE Danielle talks about the issues.

https://m.twitch.tv/videos/275162602

 She says they’re aware of the problem, but these kind of issues call for delving into deeper code and cannot be fixed in a minor hotfix. She said around the next updates they should be fixed. So hopefully that means Sacrifice.

 Fingers crossed that it fixes more than it breaks.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 hours ago, (PS4)silvia95guy said:

So, DE I've given the new UI a solid month and a half, and it's still horrible. 

Uh... I'm a bit confused, your name prefix suggests you play on console. It didn't come to consoles in May. PC got it back then though..... But it's still not a month and a half (6 weeks by most reckoning) yet. 

 

😀  OMGEEEEEE are you a time traveller? Will you please share the winning lotto numbers with me? I won't tell anyone your secret! Oh... Wait..😅

But still.. If you are, please share. Thanks in advance. 😍