Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

[AtrusStrix]

There's nothing really wrong with the current limbo, people just need to learn how to play him and play with him.

[Godin_The_Killer]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Was there ever any doubt? Next one will be Chroma, then Mesa, then Equinox

That means grinding primes 2 times in a row, and then 2 prime accesses in a row. oof

[Vyrielle]

One more thing directly related to the Dex Pixia and Diuwata and exalted weapon reworks: Titania with this planned change will have double the number of weapons to forma compared to the other exalted weapon warframes, so please don't be too stingy with polarities!

[IzzyFrozen]

As a responsible Limbo player (Not going into random pubs, letting team know ahead of time, and even helping new players in a team with Limbo figure it out, never banished team mates without telling them how to get out of it first) I feel like this is a hard nerf. I think 50% duration loss is too much and is going to require extra babysitting instead of being able to enjoy the stasis as Limbo can currently, similarly to the way Nekros prior to rework was babysitting his 3 in matches (but obviously to a lesser degree). I like being able to stop time in a bubble and melee freely. That mechanic felt really good, especially because Limbo's kit offered protection while doing so for the team, which really made him feel unique. DE, please don't drop his duration by 50%, that really seems too steep.

It's a shame we're throwing out one of the most interesting and unique mechanics in the game (one that could have its own game centered around it) from what seems like community outrage through lack of experimentation. I've done a lot of experimenting with Limbo and can tell you that of all the frames, 99% of the powers work perfectly fine in stasis. Mesa's peacemakers? They work great on enemies inside and outside of the bubble. Same for Ivara's exalted arrows, Excal's exalted blade. All of them. The only exception was Titania's Dex Pixia which somehow landed in a grey area between actual exalted weapon and archwing weapon. Plus his cataclysm recharges energy over time, so it gives the team an incentive to hang out in the bubble, not take damage, melee a bit and unleash hell when energy is up. You absolutely, positively need to shoot something? Bring a Mesa, problems solved. You get protection and energy for peacemakers, and while in a bubble you won't take damage and can shoot anything in sight. Hell, even exodia contagion hits stuff outside the bubble, and don't get me started on the new amps and tenno changes. They've been the best thing to happen to Limbo since tapping shift. That's probably what I think is going to get hit the hardest. Using my tenno in tandem with Limbo. Having the stasis timer match cataclysm's made that really easy to do and I was supporting the team doing so.

You say stasis is limiting you because you can't use guns. I'm saying this may be an instance where to a hammer every problem looks like a nail. I've had this conversation many times before (because as a Limbo player, that's what you do. You mod for duration, and you have this conversation) and I hear people saying that not being able to use their guns for a mission infringes on their enjoyment of the game. What I'm trying to say is surely just shooting guns isn't the only thing making the game enjoyable. I could throw a brick through the window of a gamestop and hit 20 games that have guns in them. Shooting guns isn't a unique mechanic, but the parkour and melee stuff is. The powers are. Using a mix of those and guns in varying combinations and being successful at them are. There's a solution here. Maybe instead of a 15s duration on stasis a 20s will work? What about making an augment mod that makes it the way it is now, but would only stop the Limbo's bullets to encourage it for solo play, if it's not too much trouble?

If it has to go, it has to go. I just feel like some sort of an appeal needed to be made for something so different, and with a little effort so enjoyable.

[Apotemoc]

So only stasis is getting halved it's duration right? Cataclism and Rift surge will be the same? if that's the case then this is fine since i'd always recast the ability 10-20 secs before it ends anyway

[Godin_The_Killer]

13 minutes ago, IzzyFrozen said:

As a responsible Limbo player (Not going into random pubs, letting team know ahead of time, and even helping new players in a team with Limbo figure it out, never banished team mates without telling them how to get out of it first) I feel like this is a hard nerf. I think 50% duration loss is too much and is going to require extra babysitting instead of being able to enjoy the stasis as Limbo can currently, similarly to the way Nekros prior to rework was babysitting his 3 in matches (but obviously to a lesser degree). I like being able to stop time in a bubble and melee freely. That mechanic felt really good, especially because Limbo's kit offered protection while doing so for the team, which really made him feel unique. DE, please don't drop his duration by 50%, that really seems too steep.

It's a shame we're throwing out one of the most interesting and unique mechanics in the game (one that could have its own game centered around it) from what seems like community outrage through lack of experimentation. I've done a lot of experimenting with Limbo and can tell you that of all the frames, 99% of the powers work perfectly fine in stasis. Mesa's peacemakers? They work great on enemies inside and outside of the bubble. Same for Ivara's exalted arrows, Excal's exalted blade. All of them. The only exception was Titania's Dex Pixia which somehow landed in a grey area between actual exalted weapon and archwing weapon. Plus his cataclysm recharges energy over time, so it gives the team an incentive to hang out in the bubble, not take damage, melee a bit and unleash hell when energy is up. You absolutely, positively need to shoot something? Bring a Mesa, problems solved. You get protection and energy for peacemakers, and while in a bubble you won't take damage and can shoot anything in sight. Hell, even exodia contagion hits stuff outside the bubble, and don't get me started on the new amps and tenno changes. They've been the best thing to happen to Limbo since tapping shift. That's probably what I think is going to get hit the hardest. Using my tenno in tandem with Limbo. Having the stasis timer match cataclysm's made that really easy to do and I was supporting the team doing so.

You say stasis is limiting you because you can't use guns. I'm saying this may be an instance where to a hammer every problem looks like a nail. I've had this conversation many times before (because as a Limbo player, that's what you do. You mod for duration, and you have this conversation) and I hear people saying that not being able to use their guns for a mission infringes on their enjoyment of the game. What I'm trying to say is surely just shooting guns isn't the only thing making the game enjoyable. I could throw a brick through the window of a gamestop and hit 20 games that have guns in them. Shooting guns isn't a unique mechanic, but the parkour and melee stuff is. The powers are. Using a mix of those and guns in varying combinations and being successful at them are. There's a solution here. Maybe instead of a 15s duration on stasis a 20s will work? What about making an augment mod that makes it the way it is now, but would only stop the Limbo's bullets to encourage it for solo play, if it's not too much trouble?

If it has to go, it has to go. I just feel like some sort of an appeal needed to be made for something so different, and with a little effort so enjoyable.

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

First off, you're assuming that people know what someone's going to bring for pubs. Secondly, you're assuming that people should have what they want to do taken away because "my ability says so". Thirdly, you are assuming that "because I explain it to people" means that they are okay with it.

 

No, this is bad gameplay. You aren't going to restrict my gameplay. My favorite build is Equi (Day) with my Arca, using Maim as CC (and building up to the eventual nuke) while clearing out mobs with the Arca, whilst keeping moving to do the little damage maim does on as many targets as possible, while not being shot. This is not compatible with stasis, especially on a max range max duration stasis build. No, I'm not going to just stand around waiting for you to kill enough for me to do something, I'm going to go and kill myself, thanks.

[Godin_The_Killer]

9 minutes ago, Apotemoc said:

So only stasis is getting halved it's duration right? Cataclism and Rift surge will be the same? if that's the case then this is fine since i'd always recast the ability 10-20 secs before it ends anyway

This is correct, only Stasis is getting halved.

[PrimeTimeTenno]

RIP? way to reck limbo he was one of the most played warframes for a reason why the hell would u change that???? 

 

[Haenohalanodien]

We saw nerf coming, I guess. Limbo was too good.

[Chewarette]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Titania!

Dex Pixia will use SECONDARY mods! Since there are no dual-primaries in game, we felt it was best to use Secondary Mods to not only buff, but also be consistent! 

To be fully consistent, why not Archwing Weapons then ? Dex Pixia is an Archwing weapon and dual Archwing Weapons exist so...

[yungtaxreturn]

14 minutes ago, Haenohalanodien said:

We saw nerf coming, I guess. Limbo was too good.

It's not a nerf, its a buff actually. The problem is that buff is a buff for mainly bad players and crybabies that don't know how to deal with having a limbo in the team or playing limbo well.

[Zomsan]

So.. is this going to be hard?  [Get 3 headshots kills in a single aim glide]

[WRESinn]

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

so we've pivoted in a direction that also Buffs Dex Pixia! Once separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons goes live, Dex Pixia will use SECONDARY mods! Since there are no dual-primaries in game, we felt it was best to use Secondary Mods to not only buff, but also be consistent!

 

Not complaining about this at all, because it's fine for what it is and clearly Pixia is going to get better mods with secondary then what I'm about to suggest.  My question is why it's being modded with secondary mods instead of Archwing weapon mods.  Titania's Razorwing is an archwing, there's no doubting that at all.  Again we'll get better mods with it the way that they have it planned, but if they're worried about mod compatibility then shouldn't they be using the Archwing weapon mods instead of secondary mods?

[Leqesai]

5 minutes ago, Schn1tt3r said:

It's not a nerf, its a buff actually. The problem is that buff is a buff for mainly bad players and crybabies that don't know how to deal with having a limbo in the team or playing limbo well.

Good, bad. Who cares.

You put WAY too much stock in the skill/personalities of others. Try looking in a mirror and reflecting on what you're about to say to an open forum before you say it.

 

But Schn1tt3r is correct. It is not a nerf, it is a buff.

[Godin_The_Killer]

16 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

To be fully consistent, why not Archwing Weapons then ? Dex Pixia is an Archwing weapon and dual Archwing Weapons exist so...

Because AW mods are trash

[Godin_The_Killer]

9 minutes ago, Zomsan said:

So.. is this going to be hard?  [Get 3 headshots kills in a single aim glide]

Arca Plasmor.

[Godin_The_Killer]

2 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Good, bad. Who cares.

You put WAY too much stock in the skill/personalities of others. Try looking in a mirror and reflecting on what you're about to say to an open forum before you say it.

 

But Schn1tt3r is correct. It is not a nerf, it is a buff.

I find that this is a thing that is common among Limbo mains, that they seem to just know everything about you, and thus have authority on how you should play.

[MemesFrom2009]

These are some nice changes, especialy to Limbo, but

WHERE IS MY VAUBAN REWORK?

[yungtaxreturn]

6 minutes ago, Godin_The_Killer said:

I find that this is a thing that is common among Limbo mains, that they seem to just know everything about you, and thus have authority on how you should play.

It has nothing to do how others should play, just know what limbo does so as to not cry about what that limbo player is doing. There have been times when others try to put blame on me for playing limbo, even though I am holding two points in an interception mission alone with over 60% of the damage while they are losing their points.

[EnjaN]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Titania!

You may have heard separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons are coming. This is true - and all 'Exalted' weapons use the Mod classes you'd expect. But Titania's Dex Pixia is different. We had to make a choice - right now on live it uses Shotgun or Rifle Mods. This isn't compatible with the way Modding works once it is an exposed option, so we've pivoted in a direction that also Buffs Dex Pixia! Once separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons goes live, Dex Pixia will use SECONDARY mods! Since there are no dual-primaries in game, we felt it was best to use Secondary Mods to not only buff, but also be consistent! 

We have also buffed the base stats of Titania's Diwata - stay tuned for final numbers in the upcoming Notes.

Cool, so you are going to give everyone copies of arcane velocity who were using acceleration or tempo to just make her weapons feel good?

Joy :/

[Potatrobot]

2 hours ago, Fluhi said:

It is your while in rift pull other targets into rift ability. Targets of rift surge can't be in the non rift plane as it triggers a radial banish on them and friends around them to rift the instant they get rift surge or have it on and are not in the rift plane.

So essentially you banish or cataclysm one or multiple targets, rift surge, kill them, and it transfers to closest non rifted enemy and cast a radial banish pulling them and targets in a area around them into the rift plane, allowing you to stay in the rift without leaving.  You can also force targets out of rift to trigger it with banish or by shutting off cataclysm triggering each target ejected out to do a radial banish kicking them and their friends back to the rift.

Killing a surged enemy doesn't automatically cause a radial banish. That's only if you banish them. And you can't banish a surged enemy if it's outside the Rift and you're in it. That's why it's a problem. Once the enemy is stuck outside the Rift, the only way to get them in is to banish a surged enemy that happens to be nearby, and that is completely unreliable. Killing surged enemies just puts them where you can't get to them. You have to step out of the Rift (dangerous for squishy Limbo in high-level missions) and

 

Which is why it's such a bad part of Rift Surge. It discourages players from killing enemies that they've trapped in the Rift, while if it transferred to enemies in the Rift it would help reinforce the 'banish-surge-kill' gameplay loop that Limbo needs.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

When it comes to the Limbo changes, I'm not exactly sure how I feel. Cutting Duration in half wouldn't be so bad, if we had some more corrupted mods that actually affected it. Currently we only have Narrow Minded which increases duration at the cost of range, however it is the only one. Perhaps if we had a Corrupted mod that increased Duration at the cost of Power Strength, I wouldn't feel so bad.

Excited to see what happens with Titania, not too sure how I feel about the Des Pixia, but the fact that I can augment my blade specifically for status and put on that one mod that gives you Life-Steal for status is going to be pretty sweet. Vampire Fairy.

[Zilotz]

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

e duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds.

Sorry, but it was too short already and you cut in half the duration... Not a good change at all.

Limbo is as tough as wet paper already so it is just a fater way for Limbo ti get killed.

11 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This isn't compatible with the way Modding works once it is an exposed option, so we've pivoted in a direction that also Buffs Dex Pixia! Once separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons goes live, Dex Pixia will use SECONDARY mods! Since there are no dual-primaries in game, we felt it was best to use Secondary Mods to not only buff, but also be consistent! 

To me you could instead fix a bit your code allowing that Dex Pixia to take any primary and secondary mods.

Overcoming limitations of your own code is tough but can give much more interesting result which will be a true buff and true flexibility.

And dual primaries are already in your game for a long time - dual Decurions. 😛

[Vynadium]

Dex Pixia should use Archwing weapon mods. 

Why? 

Well, her 4 turns her into a Archwing for one, and Dual Decurion are a DW primary for two. It makes more sense than using pistol mods. 

[HisokaXEveryone]

Unfortunately I don't know enough about Titania to give my opinion, but I just posted a video covering my thoughts on the Limbo changes and a couple of small things that I hope DE takes into account. 

 

Edit: Also, the weird pause at the beginning is being edited out atm, I somehow didn't catch that before uploading, so have to wait for YouTube's editor to clip it out.