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[DE]Rebecca

Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

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On 2018-06-12 at 4:11 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

To put Limbo's Stasis in a more cooperative position, it has been changed to only stop-time for Enemies. Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function. But, because complete time-halting for enemies within the Rift is akin to godly power, the duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds. This is of course affected by Mods.

DE, let me be one among many to say THANK YOU.  This is an incredible change, I'm actually excited to have Limbo players around me again, which is no easy feat.

Heck, tempted to pick up his Prime when it arrives.  Your art team did a great job on his design.  That and as a long time fan of the Destreza, thanks again!

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9 hours ago, adsdel said:

Wouldn't it make more sense for Titania to use Arch-Melee/Arch-Gun mods instead?

With all due respect, if Titania's Razorwing used archwing mods, it would, overall, be a nerf to her since archwing mods are actually rather weak by comparison. Also, while I don't know the exact number, of all the mods that exist in this game excluding rivens, probably about 10% of that is archwing exclusive. And that's being generous. Let's take a look at what mods we have for archwing~

Rubedo-Lined Barrel gives +60% damage at max rank. Just 60%. Serration and Hornet Strike give more than twice that amount maxed. Dual Rounds give +30% multishot maxed. Split Chamber? 3x that amount. Barrel Diffusion and Lethal Torrent together? 5x. Hell, even Vigilante Armaments 60% multishot is better than Dual Rounds. Parallax Scope? 80% crit chance. Hollowed Bullets? 60% crit damage. Point Strike? 150% crit chance. Vital Sense? 120% crit damage.

Now for melee. Cutting Edge. 60%. (Regular) Pressure Point. 120%. ...What? That's it?

The only mods that archwing has better are the elemental single stat mods (120% archwing compared to 90% regular, assuming you don't look at Primed Fever Strike), Tempered Blade and Bleeding Edge's 150% crit chance and 110% crit damage, respectively, compared to True Steel and Organ Shatter's 60% crit chance and 90% crit damage, respectively, Modified Munitions and Sudden Impact, both giving 60% status making them better than regular mod's status chance only mods, whatever the hell those pathetic 15% status chance mods are called, and Extend's 80% range compared to (Regular) Reach's 60%, though chances are you'd have Primed Reach instead. ...Huh. Other than Cutting Edge and maybe Reach it seems that archwing melee has better mods than regular ones, though that's not exactly comforting since regular mods have a lot more variety to them.

Archwing does have elemental dual stats, but it's only for heat damage (Searing Steel and Magma Chamber. Extremely rare drop from Razorback, so it's rather pricey)

At the time of this post, we do not yet know how Diwata is going to be buffed, but since most Razorwing builds utilize Dex Pixia I would imagine using archgun mods would be a huge nerf to Titania, possibly the last thing she needs right now. Considering the variety of mods that will be lost if Diwata used archmelee mods instead, well... I don't know about that one.

Don't get me wrong, I do agree that it would make sense that Titania use archwing mods since Razorwing is literally archwing for regular missions. But if they made Titania use archwing mods without making any modifications to archwing in general, I would imagine whatever is left of the people who actually use Titania beyond mastery rank fodder would be furious. Myself included.

And archwing is generally unpopular in this community, so it may take quite a long time before we see any archwing improvements or content. For trollish reasons I do want to see Jordas Golem as a sortie boss.

Edited by Fazel412
Trinity's First Commandment: Thou shalt not make typos lest thee not desire Trinity's Blessing
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48 minutes ago, Celetille said:

Yay! Finally reverting that Limbo nerf. I really enjoyed playing him back when he was reworked to his current kit and you could shoot whilst time was stopped. I was vocal about the removal of that ability because it FORCED him to be played as a melee frame, lest you never push your stasis button. While stopped bullets were cool for the first exterminate to feel like you're Neo, it was just a major hassle in anything with enemies over level 60 and missions lasting more than 5 minutes. I immediately put limbo down once stasis was nerfed and I'll be happy to pick him up again with his priming, and much much more importantly, the stasis nerf reversal (kind, tho, since you halved his duration now).

I use Limbo to open Rivens. Have a Riven that requires you to kill 10 enemies with headshots in a single slide without taking damage? Stasis... Line up your head shots.. slide.. during slide, end Stasis.. win. I primarily play Limbo in solo or with a group of my friends, and no longer being able to rely on setting up our shots is just.. disappointing. I'd much rather it be a casting option like one for Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm. Use the ability normally to cast it with the lower duration and effect as detailed in the original post or charge it to use the current version with full duration and projectile stopping effects.

I understand that a whole lot of people seem to have this distrust of Limbo players, but I think it's born out of assuming malice where there is likely only ignorance. People here are arguing against using both by suggesting, essentially, that Limbo players will actively choose the most disruptive way to play and I think that's kind of a #*!%ed up assumption to make. I know if we had the option to do one or the other the vast majority of us would only be using the old effect when it was absolutely needed. Anyway, that's what I'm hoping happens. I'd rather see the current Stasis effect survive as a charge effect for Stasis.

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Il y a 8 heures, St0rmW0lf a dit :

So, Titania's guns will gain the ability to accept mods while her blade just gets a buff? Not to sound rude or anything, but does anyone actually use her 1st, 2nd, and 3rd abilities? Granted, I've yet to figure out how to use them effectively since I'm not necessarily fond of making my enemies float, but still. The fact remains that Titania only seems to do it to one enemy per cast while Rhino can do something similar to multiple enemies with just one stomp. Plus, Rhino doesn't make them fly off like some slow version of Mass Effect's biotics pushing enemies out of the battlefield similarly to how Shepard shoved a merc out the window. I forget if shooting enemies that Titania has floating will make them move and throw off a player's aim.

I use 1-3 abilities constantly. It makes me and my team immortal. With the second ability to enough to collect only 1 buff. The first ability is not only control, but also protection against status. The third ability pulls enemies, and they can be killed in 1 shot. Is she weak in these abilities? No. Just people use only razors and do not swing the radius and duration. 

And if they remove the chip with flying enemies, they castrate the fairy on the gameplay.

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20 hours ago, Kiwinille said:

Well, why would you need more than 1 minute of full invincibility and full enemy action freeze if you could get rid of them in no time? the duration nerf complaints sound more like lazy spoiled arguments because the game doesn't let you afk anymore. Where's the bad side to having to actually play the game and reacting more often?
And you don't have to use that same line of thinking for other warframe ability, because they already do. Limbo is a special case that has super long ability duration for his kit synergy not being able to clear as fast as a gun wielding player, which will be changed.

My complaint with the duration nerf is not due to me being lazy and spoiled(I don't afk with a max duration build on my limbo). From my point of view it's an unnecessary change that is not about getting the limbo player to "actually play the game" but insted to create more artificial busy work. As far as i know Limbo never ment to be a fast room clearer, as we have always had other warfames that can clear rooms faster than a gun wielding player.

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2 hours ago, Ratmut said:

Love how so many people seem to not understand why cutting the duration in half is a perfectly reasonable trade for everyone to be able to use all weapons.

There are some people who like playing solo and using stasis to set up shots, and for them it's a nerf with no trade offs.

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These changes actually sound pretty useful.

 

Titania was already strong, thanks in part to Hells Chamber and dual stat elementals. Since she can use Secondary mods instead, it might be viable to build crit focused as well, or at worst, use less dual stats to get 100% status. Diwata needs a bit of love. I'm sure most Archwing melees do (I rarely do Archwing, and when I do I use my gun). Diwata just feels so... Underwhelming. Not sure if it's because it doesn't feel impactful, or it's the low crit/status, or the low damage, or what.

 

Limbo, while the lowered duration hurts, is a blessing. Limbo has been this solo only frame, or a frame you'd bring with friends. Now that we can shoot and throw (Hopefully weapons like Redeemer and Glaive won't be forgotten about), he's useful in all missions and all situations. Yeah, it sucks that the Headshot Rivens will take a hit, but at least you can still Zephyr with Scourge still, right? If it's really missed, maybe DE could remove the recast of Stasis and make it toggle between Enemy only and All. Personally, I'm a fan of any changes that allows me to use any frame I want in any mission I want.

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9 hours ago, TruestGentleman said:

okay so now instead of having a really good primary in razorwing we have an okay secondary and probably a still S#&$ melee, how is this a buff? secondaries are the worst weapon type since hunter munitions was introduced.

The Dex Pixia never really needed Hunters to have massive slash procs.  When you consider the Prime mods available for secondaries, it actually can be considered a huge buff.  Buff of Diwata's stats is just something that was needed to at least put it on par.  

8 hours ago, Labobatory said:

wait, with the new "moddable exalted weapons" kind of thing, will warframe power strength still boost the damage of dex pixia, peacemaker, etc.?

Power Strength should still effect the power of exalted.  It does regardless of the mods you have.  So the modding change shouldn't effect this at all.  

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10 hours ago, Zylofan said:

I never said there was. You stated that no matter how you look at it this is a buff and I pointed out how that was untrue. 

Gaining the ability to use guns does nothing for me, I just lose half my durration. 

No matter how you slice it, from MY position, this is only a nerf.

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

Edited by Oreades
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il y a 8 minutes, Oreades a dit :

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

Сhanneling abilities are basically not needed by this game. They're just messing things up, and it's not just about Ember.

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I get the Limbo changes, but I also think it's really lame too.  Like part of what made the changes to Limbo so appealing was that really cool effect of lining up a whole bunch of projectiles and then letting them all loose at once.  Setting up tons of really cinematic scenes reminiscent of a certain bizarre adventure with a dome of knives pointed to a single target.

If these changes go through, it would be really nice to see some kind of way for Limbo to still toggle the projectile stopping effect just for himself.  That way we can both maintain the teamplay of these changes without losing any of the flair of Limbo's current setup.

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5 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Сhanneling abilities are basically not needed by this game. They're just messing things up, and it's not just about Ember.

Channeling abilities themselves are fine, the problem they seem to have run into and the reason I think they finally did something was when they added the bounty Set mods. Because those mods where direct power creep as there where mods that added directly to stats that where already pretty much "at their limit" like Range. Her range was tettering on a bit too much without them and went directly to waaaay too much with them. 

Then instead of just capping the range on WoF which would have pretty much solved everything..... they instead put in a Machiavellian set of mechanics that essentially caps her range but in a really round about and kinda really irritating way. At least the Limbo change is straight forward. 

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il y a 12 minutes, Oreades a dit :

Channeling abilities themselves are fine

No, the problem is in streaming. Before that warframe was not feeling bad, сhanneling abilities are not prevented to use other abilities. Now they take the main part of the energy, which can not be restored without disconnection. This leaves you without energy, unless of course you have " mystical charges"

All of these changes Ember just the result of input Channeling abilities. If we had to constantly activate the "world on fire", this is not AFK farm. If "world on fire" were weak without additional abilities, it would not be AFk farm. But it's not, and not wanting to accept the fact that the new system is a complete failure, they dance with a tambourine.

Edited by zhellon

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1 minute ago, zhellon said:

No, the problem is in streaming. Before that warframe was not feeling bad, сhanneling abilities are not prevented to use other abilities. Now they take the main part of the energy, which can not be restored without disconnection.

All of these changes amber just the result of input Channeling abilities. If we had to constantly activate the "world on fire", this is not AFK farm. If "world on fire" were weak without additional abilities, it would not be AFk farm. But it's not, and not wanting to accept the fact that the new system is a complete failure, they dance with a tambourine.

Huh?

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46 minutes ago, Oreades said:

Again except you gain the option to use the other 2/3rds of your loadout that was previously inaccessible. Even if you choose not to use it, you have still gained. 

Actually this is a perfect time to try and install some empathy for the other 34 frames in the game. The bulk of which built really nice guns. Put yourself in their shoes, is it fair to the rest of the game to say, Sure you built really nice guns but only use your melee?

Count your blessings Limbo didn't get the Ember treatment of needing to recast her channeling ability every ~10 seconds (not effected by mods) unless she wants its range cut in half. And it didn't even "solve" the problem they where aiming for, in fact if anything it kinda made it worse. 

So when you're feeling down about that timer reduction just think about the cluster that was Ember and be thankful you only have to recast your thing every ~40 seconds. 

Stasis never made 2/3rds of your loadout inaccessible, sure they only did damage after stasis ended/got cancelled but they could still be used.

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where s the fun in stoppping bullets mid air ,or projectiles  ,you guys take all the fun from the warframe 😞

 

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10 minutes ago, unknown418 said:

Stasis never made 2/3rds of your loadout inaccessible, sure they only did damage after stasis ended/got cancelled but they could still be used.

RoUvw3x.jpg

 

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I've been seeing plenty of Limbo users complaining about how the upcoming changes to stasis are a "nerf". As a Limbo main who has been obsessed with Limbo since before his rework I can tell you it's more of a buff than anything. First of all the most obvious changes are that you and allies can will be able to shoot enemies and the enemies are still frozen, while the duration for stasis is cut in half. Now let's break this down. 

"I'm vulnerable when I recast stasis"
No, just use Rift Surge before you recast. From personal experience I have used rift surge for this exact purpose already. When soloing wave 75 akkad the rounds started to last longer than the duration of my stasis/cataclysm (staticlysm). Pretty much anything could one-shot the defense pod in those later rounds. So what did I do to safely recast my staticlysm so that the pod wouldn't get hurt in between casts? I used Rift Surge. With a range build you can CERTAINLY use rift surge to counter the halved duration of stasis. In fact, a negative range cataclysm will NOT get you past those wave 75 enemies (well beyond sortie level) as the enemy speed starts to increase faster than stasis alone can contain it, so you MUST use range ANYWAYS on anything beyond those levels. If it's a lower level where negative range can be used, the enemies likely won't have enough speed and damage to destroy the pod in between natural talent casts anyways 😕 In fact, if ur team is killing enemies before they reach the neg range staticlysm then great you can just pick up energy orbs. If ur team can't and the enemies do reach it, great you can just kill the enemies inside for the needed energy due to Limbo's passive (each enemy killed in rift grants energy) -_-

But let's take Rift Surge one (or several) steps further shall we? We will be able to shoot weapons in stasis and Im not sure the limbo users who are used to melee understand what this means. First of all, Limbo has this wonderful augment called Rift Torrent. In say, void interception I can cast rift surge once with enough enemies in my rift to get a little over 1000% percent damage (no extra buffs). Well, if just one enemy walks into the rift this allows you to RECAST rift surge and gain the damage buff from all the enemies in the rift AGAIN putting it at around 2000% (usually around 2400% actually, not sure why). Rift Torrent is effected by BOTH number of enemies and power strength. This means any enemy +speed frame like spova or rage equinox will indirectly buff limbo's damage as enemies will run into his rift faster. A Rhino Roar/nidus link or BOTH will also buff this damage even further PER CAST. Guess what? Rift Torrent isn't limited to melee damage!!!!!! I can't wait to DESTROY with my rift torrent arca plasmor!!!!! Combine the fact that RT buffs all of limbos damage and the fact that his passive gives energy for each enemy killed and the halved duration of stasis is nothing more than something you have to keep a closer eye on. Considering the potential advantages it brings, I'd say it's more than worth it.

Now I will agree that it'd be nice if Limbo had some way to freeze his own projectiles if he wanted to. I think this could be done with something like vaubans trap submenu or ivaras arrow submenu. But this new change that's about to put on Limbo will make him BOTH more powerful and far less of a hindrance on his team. 

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On 2018-06-11 at 12:26 PM, Darkvramp said:

if it doesn't affect allies now, why does it need to have to half the duration?

Because it was ridiculously long.  I'm sure you already knew that.  Anyone who played Limbo knew it.   It could be modded out to well over a minute, which basically became God Mode for as long as it was up.  They only reason it wasn't nerfed before now was that Limbo was so unwelcome in groups that it didn't really matter.

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I am alright with the limbo rework however i would still like to be able to toggle projectile stasis for myself at least . can we please make that an option?

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