Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

[GrofZelen]

On 2018-06-11 at 8:11 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Two small workshops in one! We'll start with Titania because she truly is the smallest of all.

Titania!

You may have heard separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons are coming. This is true - and all 'Exalted' weapons use the Mod classes you'd expect. But Titania's Dex Pixia is different. We had to make a choice - right now on live it uses Shotgun or Rifle Mods. This isn't compatible with the way Modding works once it is an exposed option, so we've pivoted in a direction that also Buffs Dex Pixia! Once separately-Moddable 'Exalted' weapons goes live, Dex Pixia will use SECONDARY mods! Since there are no dual-primaries in game, we felt it was best to use Secondary Mods to not only buff, but also be consistent! 

We have also buffed the base stats of Titania's Diwata - stay tuned for final numbers in the upcoming Notes.

And Limbo...

Limbo is one of the most complex Warframes - he's more polarizing than a lifetime supply of Forma! He is also one of the most consistently used. The power to stop-time completely is quite strong - but is it cooperative when weapons are affected? Certainly with a coordinated team and well-trained Limbo, the answer is yes. But that's not always the case.

To put Limbo's Stasis in a more cooperative position, it has been changed to only stop-time for Enemies. Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function. But, because complete time-halting for enemies within the Rift is akin to godly power, the duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds. This is of course affected by Mods.

This feels pretty great in testing, requiring more attention if you have Mods that negatively impact Duration, while also allowing free weapon use. We will be monitoring this change closely to see if further tweaks are needed. Expert Limbo players who can easily traverse Rifting will have no trouble with this Duration change.

Cheers, all! This is just a snapshot of some changes coming in the near future (nearer on PC than on Console). It does not preclude other tweaks and adjustments to our beloved Arsenal. We'll be watching for comments, and awaiting practical feedback when the time comes!

 

I personally don't agree about cutting Limbo's Stasis duration in Half. What is the purpose of that as half stasis duration doesn't synergise as well with Cataclysm??

[Issxi]

Well, looks like we have yet another ability losing it's cool factor. I wonder what frame will be next. Hopefully that OP Exalted Blade will stop throwing energy waves and no-clipping through the universe. I don't think I ever saw a swordsman with the ability to do that, and Excalibur is the swordsman frame after all.

[skbenga]

14 hours ago, Zilotz said:

So i'm in bubble with 20 angry enemies inside when they unfreeze and 30-40 angry enemies outside the bubble.

Stasis duration ends while bubble has still half of duration - all mobs shoot at you inside and outside rift, you don't have enough energy to recast bubble yet.

1) How passive can save you? Do you have rift2 and rift3 planes to hide in?

2) How many bullets you will take during casting animation?

ez drop bubble > tap shift = safe and regen energy. get enough for one banish. tap shift > 1 > shift kill whom ever is banished for 10 free energy per enemy killed. restart rotation. 

[PortalPuma]

15 hours ago, Caramello said:

Jesus christ, dont call yourself a limbo player if you think the duration trade-off for the ability to shoot while stasis is active is a nerf, cataclysm duration reduction would be, but having to press 2 again is no issue at all, is like nothing changed -.-"

PREACH BROTHER!

[(PSN)meehnohim]

Rework for titania sounds good i just hope that titania receives as much love and dedication that saryn got she (saryn) literally got reworked, buffed, nerfed, and fine-tuned to near  perfection you wanna know why she's a popular frame. I think all frames should get the same attention mind you this saryn tweak if i remember correctly was revised at least 3 times in a 6 week period. I may be a little off with my facts but i know saryn was constantly being looked at almost like she had her own solo game about to release. Hey DE all I'm respectfully saying is show all frames that kinda love. Peace.._.._.._.._.._ 

[skbenga]

On 2018-06-11 at 8:18 PM, Frenjo said:

As someone who plays Limbo almost exclusively, with a developed playstyle. I can totally see the value of removing time stop affecting ally weapons, but why self weapons? It completely removes one of the core concepts of stasis, which was to have a line-up-your-shots-then-release-for-satisfaction playstyle. I kinda like it for the sake of not getting screamed at whenever I play my main warframe, but then, when do I ever actually use stasis unless the pod's dying?

Addendum: I'm not okay with the duration change of half base duration to stasis, at least make it 20 seconds. Seems that the playstyle that was originally encouraged has just gone straight out the window. Although I hope this'll encourage less 4 + 2 spam cataclysm-stasis, which even as someone who mains Limbo I really don't like outside of certain circumstances.

if anything this will promote the 4+2 spam because it will no longer be so hated by the community. prepare to see max range duration limbo become the meta.

regarding the stasis duration nerf, its not going to make it worse. Stasis has a short cast time and doesn't cost much. In terms of energy consumption, killing 2-3 enemies in the rift will refund it in full. if you cant kill 3 enemies in 15 seconds (assuming you have no duration mods), then you shouldn't be playing limbo. Additionally you don't even have to kill the enemy yourself to get the energy back. Even if your squadmate kills an enemy in the rift you get the energy back. because there is no more bullet stop for allies, they will be killing while you stand there and cast stasis every 15 seconds.

IMHO i think people are going to be playing with limbo with a max range duration build. people are going to leave stasis off to allow the enemy to gain some ground and only use it as a panic button when enemy get in shooting range.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

8 hours ago, (PS4)shadowinamask said:

I don't think this is such a good idea. I run minimum range and noticed that cata doesn't cover up mobile defense points after some time (cata range decreases over time). I already have to stand on top of the point and aim straight down when casting it. If the cata range would be nerfed, low range Limbos will be affected the most and we'll be only left with banish, and stasis.

But if the range nerf would at least guarantee that defense/mobile defense objectives are fully covered on the lowest range possible, and the range decay over time would be removed (or at least removed in a situation when range is lower than some value, because the decaying range has also it's pros sometimes) we who play low range Limbo would still have 3 abilities.

I don't have any better idea atm, but I know that I am and will be more than happy to be able to continue using cata to protect those defense points and lock out doorways with the low range build.

 

About the stasis duration reduction. It's not like stasis costs 100 energy with base efficiency, and the ability can be re-enabled nearly instantly, so that's not a big problem I think.

But I'm with those people who suggest that stasis should at least affect Limbos weapons. This is a really fun thing to use.

God mode needs a weakness. I think we'll actually see stasis crack a lot more now that people can shoot in it. 

With it's 300 bullet limit, players will feel encouraged to shoot inside limbo's cataclysm and constantly destroy stasis.

So I'm willing to wait and see the complaints when this goes live.

[EDM774]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

God mode needs a weakness. I think we'll actually see stasis crack a lot more now that people can shoot in it. 

With it's 300 bullet limit, players will feel encouraged to shoot inside limbo's cataclysm and constantly destroy stasis.

So I'm willing to wait and see the complaints when this goes live.

the bullet limit was present because the ability previously stopped them (you can only stop so many bullets before the stasis becomes unstable) , since it won't stop them anymore there is no limit.

[Inanegrain62]

On 2018-06-12 at 7:14 AM, (PS4)AlmazWalker said:

Why the do I have to be punished for something that is out of my control if I play Limbo?? If I Banish people they are going to almost instantly roll out of the rift without even thinking on my mechanics... is not fair for a player to be punished for what some other random person is going to do with it's free will this is one of the worst things anyone could suggest. Also the duration matters like every Limbo player knows energy doesn't matter as much but what is the point of Stasis running out before Cataclysm even ends and moreover what is the point of re casting Stasis when Cataclysm is going to end 15 seconds later, this in contrast to Cataclysm and Stasis running out with a difference of 1 or 2 seconds isn't a mere QoL change but those 15 seconds could make a big difference since Stasis is the only safety net you have when there is a whole platoon of enemies in the rift with you....

If you know limbo well and know when enemies will stay in the rift or out there'll be another safety net if your range is maxed as you can deliberately throw the entire room of enemies out or into the rift. That's already another safety net to cast stasis again.

If you're already banishing an enemy and forget about it, you should be punished for leaving scraps behind that your teammates can't touch. Your teammates should be able to pull enemies out of the rift by attacking them, and again, there are almost little punishment for doing so as you're already far ahead, leaving them.  They have a choice of either leaving the enemies alone or wanting to rid of them and if they die, that's completely their fault.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

22 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

the bullet limit was present because the ability previously stopped them (you can only stop so many bullets before the stasis becomes unstable) , since it won't stop them anymore there is no limit.

Ah, but she didn't say that did she? I think it was kept in order to keep this ability with a weakness. 

[Vanille]

20 hours ago, Temragon said:

Feels like I'm just shouting into the wind right now, but Limbo's teammates not being able to interact with things while in the rift is a major part of the problem. Not killing things easily is one thing, literally not being able to do the mission is another.

It's not a common thing, nor a thing most Limbo players (including myself) would do (intentionally, we've always placed a bubble too early at least once), but it's a thing that is done and is a problem.

We don't have full information about his mini rework, but there's a posibility that interaction with objects would be lifted aswell, there's no point on it if it just stops enemies and their attacks, let's hope this applies to objetives and other interactions or hope they read this and have it in mind.


 

19 hours ago, Domrond said:

I don't understand why the duration nerf on Stasis is necessary if you're already letting teammates shoot guns during the ability. It also no longer matches cataclysm duration, which is annoying.

You're just making stasis more annoying to use without actually reducing its power. So why do it?

 

19 hours ago, Zach_xeo said:

just dont think that cutting ability in half so teamates can shoot is a fair trade.

For these 2 quotes:
Lifting the only tradeoff the ability had for the utility it provided passively 'buffs' it because more damage options are there, increasing potential damage output. After the change it will be the most powerful ability in the game because you literally can not be stopped by anything other than corpus nullifiers which you can shoot before they touch it and still be able to use your whole loadout anihilating everything from long range.
Every defensive ability that completely negates enemy damage has a tradeoff and none last nowhere close as long as Limbo's, even on full duration builds. Frost for example, his globes last 'forever' but they have health and enemy can destroy them. Remember how op Gara's 4 was at release? having a full duration build with a tall wall blocking every single enemy attack while also not letting them pass through it for the whole duration with no tradeoff, and it had to be nerfed for obvious reasons and now her wall has health per sections and enemies can destroy them.
Now Limbo has the longest duration abilities in the game which provides godlike utility (even better after the changes) with a limit on weapon usage as tradeoff. If you can use guns and attack from longer range, you don't need that much duration compared to having to go into melee range for every single enemy surrounding the rift to get rid of them, and remember you're not alone in that bubble unless you play solo, the overall clear speed of enemies while inside the rift will be so much higher. So yes, duration nerf is deserved
 

 

 

18 hours ago, Crystal_Ignition said:

i dont see taking away shotgun mods as a buff, i did several tests in the simulacron to find the best weapon for titiania and without a doubt it was the tigris prime, sweeping serration + high status, that being said MAYBE she can benefit from hydraulic crosshairs so ill hold my judgement but i would also ask for a slight buff to her crit chance then so we can use hybrid builds on dex pixia

It doesn't matter what weapon you use for her 4 other than the primary type (shotgun or rifle), only mods effects apply. Her exalted weapons have their own base stats and the mods affect those, not your base weapon stats transfering to pixia.

 

17 hours ago, Schn1tt3r said:

And lose a mod slot for the crybabies? How about the augment mod makes it so that the bullets aren't frozen instead?

There's 2 sides for this argument. After the change, everyone will be able to shoot through the rift as base ability effect, it would be unfair for Limbos if they were by default the only ones not being able to when there are some players that would rather have a different effect for personal reasons and having it being the augment would be the way to go as it would be the ability effect changing option, not the other way around. I have a 'budget' build on Limbo for duration and range on different configurations with just 1 forma (was waiting for prime as it was closer) and it's completely playable and it still has empty mod slots. Limbo is not one of those frames that have an urgent need of every stat for their kit (hello Mag) and can sacrifice some to use that augment if neccesary (or opted to, because you'd want your stasis to have a different effect than base, just like every other frame augment choice).

 

16 hours ago, unknown418 said:

Some people in this thread think that saying "just recast stasis" is a good argument against the people that don't like that the duration on stasis get's cut in half.
We could use that same line of thinking for why all other warframe abilities should only last half as long as they do now.

Well, why would you need more than 1 minute of full invincibility and full enemy action freeze if you could get rid of them in no time? the duration nerf complaints sound more like lazy spoiled arguments because the game doesn't let you afk anymore. Where's the bad side to having to actually play the game and reacting more often?
And you don't have to use that same line of thinking for other warframe ability, because they already do. Limbo is a special case that has super long ability duration for his kit synergy not being able to clear as fast as a gun wielding player, which will be changed.

 

 

14 hours ago, -CM-Bish said:

Can we get a change to Titania's 3 so that it actually gets 'locked in place' instead of getting shot at by a teammate and sent flying far out of the range it would be useful at? Sure, it's fun to play beach ball with a Bombard, but...no thanks in actual missions. Please.

That would be an awesome buff to her 3 without having to alter the ability further, as her 3's utility is fine right now with just being annoying on the enemies flying away. Imo her 1 and 2 needs the most tweaks.


 

 

16 hours ago, Lholland said:

Are there any other changes in the works for Titania coming later? Or is this the only one you guys have planned?

 

14 hours ago, cookieknife said:

If this is the Titania revisit this clearly isn’t enough

For these 2 quotes:
I believe this is just a workshop to explain the change on her exalted weapons since she actually has 2 and is a special case among the exalted weapon frames and needed a bit more of info clarification. Probably not her full revisit, or at least I hope so.

[greenti44]

On 2018-06-11 at 8:11 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Since there are no dual-primaries in game

dual decurion is pretty much exactly titanias weapon just with different stats. but buffing titania is good, while you're at it you could also make her 1, 2 and 3 not feel useless (maybe give her some defense and/or cc with more range)

[selig_fay]

il y a 22 minutes, greenti44 a dit :

dual decurion is pretty much exactly titanias weapon just with different stats. but buffing titania is good, while you're at it you could also make her 1, 2 and 3 not feel useless (maybe give her some defense and/or cc with more range)

These abilities and now feel fine. Only 2 and 4 in need of improvement, as 2 gives mostly useless buffs, and 4 can solve a lot of problems with 1 and 3 ability. All in all, Titania has good control, only she can't control that control , no matter how stupid it sounds. Mobs just fly away and you can not do anything about it, because you can not fly all the time.

[Enderfenix]

Yeeeeeeees a little love to my main limbo... And no more hate 

[Slush_Magic]

The changes seem nice, but halving the duration of Stasis seems like a bit much. One of my main gripes is that it'll mess with the timing it had with Cataclysm, and also it'll probably make Limbo more bland and/or boring due to how much you have to monitor Stasis, which would make max duration even more of a limbo meta.

[MrTitan123]

Fare thee well, jojokes...

 

Oh, and you may want to allow banish to be recast from either plane. That way if you accidentally banish a teammate or something else you didn’t want to, it’s not a problem. It would also allow banish to function as a more reliable damage casting ability.

[MrTitan123]

Another thing I forgot to say.

 

LIMBO GOOD, LIMBO FINE, EVERYBODY GETS A CHANCE!

Come on, sing it with me!

[csocso1232]

I would like to sound my disagreement on the duration change.Why do I disagree?

For this reason: This nerf won't accomplish anything except that it will make Limbo less fluent and fun,because you always have stasis active no matter what. This change only makes it so that you'll cast more often making builds with normal duration hideous to play(he won't have energy problems as he's got energy for days, so litteraly just an annoyance).

There is no point in this nerf except to discourage Limbo players from buying the prime access.

[Shiichibukai]

Screw stasis, remove that troll ability.

[Buzkyl]

2 minutes ago, csocso1232 said:

There is no point in this nerf except to discourage Limbo players from buying the prime access.

Yeah, not like Stasis, got a massive buff.

/s

[TheErebus.]

Yeah, this is totally going to discourage me from buying the prime access to a frame that I adore but can't really play because most people tend to berate me/leave the match solely because of the fear that I'll hinder their fun.

/s

[SyWillCry]

1 minute ago, Shiichibukai said:

Screw stasis, remove that troll ability.

Well, at least it's getting changed to only stop enemies now, as said in the dev workshop.

[Shiichibukai]

Thanks for making Limbo players less douchebaggish now. Wont have to deal with being forced to melee just because some random limbo decides it and when you ask them to please at least not use stasis "WHY NOT? SCREW YOU!". Praise DE.

[Rurik-Vaeringjar]

A simple proposal: Do both mechanics.

What about the people that actually like Stasis the way it is? It is by far one of the most interesting mechanics you guys have implemented thus far. The sheer number of different ways it can be used makes it one of my favorite powers to use when running solo or with friends. The problem isn't with Stasis, it's with forcing the current Stasis on people without input. It's a player agency thing, I get it. However, this new Stasis is just another cc stun of shortish duration with requirements that other cc stuns do not have. The new Stasis would, effectively, be like a really bad cc only version of Volt's Discharge, except cost the activation of two separate abilities, at least, and deal effectively zero damage in comparison. I understand the need for the change, but I would humbly like to propose an alternate solution, a best of both worlds kind of thing.

I would like to suggest, instead of entirely scrapping the old mechanic, you leave it to player choice. If the player taps Stasis, Limbo casts the new version of Stasis with the limited duration. If the player holds Stasis, he instead casts the old version of Stasis complete with projectile weapons being affected. I understand there might be concerns about trolls, but I imagine no more concern than you have for how disruptive Frost can be with Snow Globe. I think instead, trust that Limbo players, myself included, would gladly make use of the new mechanic in groups where players do not want Stasis to affect their ranged weapons. Additionally, there might be concern about the "newb factor." Basically, that newbs not knowing better would use the full Stasis effect without realizing how disruptive it can be. There might be problems with that, but I don't think any more problems than we already face from new players learning how to use Frost. Additionally, making players have to hold the button to cast old Stasis would lessen this possibility considerably if only because they won't think to hold the button down.

I'm also fairly certain that the change could be implemented in the time frame presented. Rather than throwing out the old Stasis code, leave it in and change the activation method, perhaps even give it a charge time to further justify the old duration and effect while also decreasing the likelihood that it will accidentally be cast that way. Something akin to how Hydroid can charge Tentacle Swarm or Zephyr with Tail Wind. I know you guys are busy as hell, but I really would appreciate if you at least gave the idea some thought. This alteration to the proposed changes should require the smallest degree of change to put into effect. I just know I really truly do not want to lose the ability to play a game with my friends where we all enjoy stopping time for a minute to line up some interesting shots. It's just too damn cool for me to feel ok with loosing it. I mean.. How else will I fire several Kulstar rockets at myself while waiting at extraction without dying? It's my favorite way to end a mission as Limbo.. with fireworks and showmanship.

[Azvalk]

il y a 37 minutes, Rurik-Vaeringjar a dit :

If the player taps Stasis, Limbo casts the new version of Stasis with the limited duration. If the player holds Stasis, he instead casts the old version of Stasis complete with projectile weapons being affected.

 

il y a 37 minutes, Rurik-Vaeringjar a dit :

perhaps even give it a charge time to further justify the old duration and effect while also decreasing the likelihood that it will accidentally be cast that way. Something akin to how Hydroid can charge Tentacle Swarm

Absolutely agree with this idea at 1000% !
The abilities that exist in 2 versions, depending on whether the key is just pressed or holden are very appreciable, and besides I would like so that it is generalized, it would give so much more possibility at all warframes.
And if in the case of Limbo it saves the version where the duration is maximum, it would be perfect.

Especially because Limbo is a coop warframe:

Le 11/06/2018 à 20:11, [DE]Rebecca a dit :

The power to stop-time completely is quite strong - but is it cooperative when weapons are affected? Certainly with a coordinated team and well-trained Limbo, the answer is yes.

2-mode abilities of hydroid appeared at his rework, so I hope for Limbo.

Oh and @[DE]Rebecca when you have the time, I hope you can read my suggestions on Vlad, that I tried to make very close to what was presented.
[Here]
I know it's particuliar to suggest that all abilities have two mode but.. well.. it's seems to me that this warframe needs to be a little special ^^ have something that players talk about like a interesting particularity ^^