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[DE]Rebecca

Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

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Currently you can purchase infinite Titania blueprints from the market but the parts are not re-obtainable. I doubt its hard to remove the blueprint from the store and attach it to the quest to be consistent with current new releases, or to reward the parts by replaying the quest such as with Limbo. If you're going to update Titania, clean up the clutter for the new-player experience.

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Limbo:

the changes to Stasis are interesting as they drastically reduce potential trolling and remove the constraint to powers or melee only, thus giving more options to both Limbo and his allies.

The corresponding nerf on stasis duration is more than justified as otherwise it would become the strongest and longest CC ability in the game, consider this:

 rift so no damage from other enemies outside of range, stasis locking all enemies there with you, apply damage -> any killed enemy pays back part of the energy spent for the combo; rinse and repeat = profit + practically immortal team... save for nullifiers and scrambus.

 

Titania:

the change to moddability with secondary weapons mods to Razorwing's Dex Pixia seems promising, altough putting this news in the same workshop as Limbo's automatically relegated it in background.

Any plan to make Diwata moddable as well? what about polarities and formaing both weapons? would Titania need to relevel or only the weapons would lose levels?!

Still Titania needs a revision of her her other powers, a buff on her base energy and/or an increase in base duration for razorwing.

#4 Razorwing:

Getting accettable flight time and damage (duration + strenght + efficency build) damages quite a lot the other powers:

- Lantern would actually benefit from power strenght, but with its glitches and range reduced by build the effect is negligible;

- Tribute has a damage component to its casting and its buff/debuff range is fixed, so it remains usable, the problem is casting range becomes literally "in the face" of the enemies... well at least tagging their souls its easier because it appears much nearer this way T_T, still tributed enemies are flung away by the power...

Razorwing would need a higer base duration or a bigger energy pool to sustain it, and it's basically a single target ability.

The razorflies, the multitarget part of the ability, can be quickly lost as enemies can shot them down and don't respawn without reactivating the power, doesn't benefit from any of Tribute's buffs and is stripped away when lantern is active, also the razorflyes in bigger tiles tend to wander off quite far, removing their benefit from Titania...

Chance of considerable self damage from tile collisions, certain elements (most vertical spires and some railings) in orokin tiles outright kill Titania on contact, made worse by

Overlarge hit box during razorwing: the actual hitbox extends at least a third around the ingame model in all directions, resulting in painful collisions and getting stuck in places

Sometimes the act of meleeing enemies can murded you for no reason... you die without being attacked, just from contat damage

Aviator and Agility Frift aren't compatible with it.

Innate vacuum is much shorter than the "official" 3m that all frames have, forcing a Titania to literally scrape the ground to collect drops and energy;

massive friction/dspeed reduction in proximity of surfaces, made more of a problem due to the difference between actual hitbox and ingame model (hitbox>>model);

Passive 50% miss chance applied on enemy fire is unreliable as high leveled enemies apparently get above 100% precision from scaling, doesn't work against missiles and the like.

Plains of Eidolon enemies have Air to Air missiles that are 100% hit chance on Titania bejond buffs, passive and razorflies shield... and use said missiles even when titania is not in razorwing also their damage is scaled to oneshot archwings in the plains, so the effect on titania is an actual oneshot... this hasn't been addressed since the release of her augment -> intended and dastard* nerf?

*http://en.dsynonym.com/dastard

Suggestions:

-> fix hitbox in player's favor; her hitbox vertical dimensions are particularly horrible, making her bump her head under most doors when trying to cross high;

-> remove collision damage, if a Volt is in your party you die, many times, especially when crossing doors... doors are her worst enemy;

-> remove razorflies from razorwing and make them their own power, similarly to Itzal's archwing #4 drone escort

-> reduce base energy consumption or increase base power duration to compensate for loss odf razorflies, let 2souls" collected in razorwing replenish a bit of energy and/or shields

-> revert Plains of Eidolon enemies hate for Titania, without razorwing blitz augment she's a dead fairy! and having anti air missiles after her even in standard mode is ridiculous.

 

#2 Tribute:

A good ability on paper, a massive hassle in actual use:

- need to spawn it repeatedly against specific enemies to get the desired buff, all buffs require 5 stacks from specific types of enemies,

- need to go and pick up the "souls" that spawn,

- debuffs ranges are pretty mediocre and "locked" indipendently of modding,

- debuff strenght is usually too low at max stacks and unreliable,

Dust: range 30m <> -50% precision to enemies in range / Thorns 40m <> 25% damage reflection + benefits allies within 35m / Entangle 10m <> -25% enemy movement speed / Full moon +75% companions damage + benefits allies within 30m

- debuff on enemies in range instead of party buffs centered on titania herself -> reliability takes a huge hit, in particular in the Plains or in large tiles were enemies engage from far further away than her powers ranges

- power strenght influences the "punch" separating the "soul" from the enemy and results in flinging a target across the map and out of debuff range more often than not.

- nullifiers or  scrambus wipe all the accumulated buffs at the same time instantly,

- horribly energy intensive, to maximixe all buffs would require at least twice more energy than Titania's standard energy pool...

Suggestions:

-> make Dust a buff centered on Titania and affecting allies and herself with a +50% hit evasion, give Thorns a bit more damage reflection,  increase entangle range and rethink Full Moon effect as it's lacklustre and useless to Titania herself most of the time...

-> make Tribute an ability with selectable effect like Vauban's Minelayer or Ivara's Quiver, so we can choose which buff we want from enemies

-> add a way that makes the "souls" drift towards Titania, at least in razorwing and/or give back a bit of energy

 

#3 Lantern and #1 Spellbind:

Both suffer from the same problem: enemies are sent in the stratosphere 9/10 of times, destroying any utility the powers could offer.

Suggestion: Due to their similitude the 2 powers could be simply folded up in a single slot, with a quick press activating Spellbind and a short hold and release activating Lantern with only its CC ability (more on that following), thus freeing a slot for a new power.

 

Suggestion for new power:

#3 Razorflies:

By folding together lantern and Spellbind, make razorflies in its own power.

Targeted power with duration and range (fixed minimum range or based on power strenght):

- Casted on an enemy within range, the razorflies attack it until it dies or duration ends and then return to flutter around titania for remaining duration, leaving to attack enemies that come near (range/2 or range/3) or that attack Titania;

- Casted without target, the razorflies orbit titania in their passive mode, attacking enemies coming in range or that attack Titania, if "souls" from Tribute are/came in range, razorflies pick them up and pull/push them to their lady with speed proportional to power energy strenght;

- Casted on an enemy under Spellbind, the razorflies attack that enemy until dead or Spellbind ends and then dissolve

- Casted on an enemy under Lantern, all enemies in the immediate area suffer damage (range/2 or range/3 ?), like with the current ability, with stacking castings to increase DPS or renewing Aoe effect duration. When Lantern ends the razorflies attack remaining enemies for the residual duration or, lacking targets, return orbiting Titania until time expires;

- casted while in Razorwing: razorflies behave like their curent iteration plus the "souls" retrieval aspect if no hostiles are in range - (innate or augment) razorflies are sacrificed to stop missiles or other instances of unavoidable damage from hitting Titania herself;

- casted in razorwing on lantern target activates stacking Aoe effect, if razorflies are already active, the current swarm is given to Lantern and recasting gives back titania's fighter escort.

 

Apologies for the wall of text, please comment/criticize

 

Edited by Ikusias
Corrected a mistake: dex Pixia are getting moddable, not the Diwata sword
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this update will make me use him more often to support the squads im in. i like the look and the concept of a time wizard.

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At least DE nerfed Limbo *before* PA.  I'm still sitting on literal truck-tons of salt after buying the Inferno Ember pack only to have Ember "reworked" and Overheat removed and replaced with Accelerant a few weeks later. 😡

QOL change for Limbo is great for making him team friendly.  The direct nerf OTH isn't remotely needed.

My hype for this PA is all but gone. At least it saved me $140.

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I already adressed some issues here:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/943816-changes-i-would-like-to-see-in-limbo-prime/

I was fine with Limbo before is rework. I was fine with Limbo after his rework. And I'll probably be fine with him after this as well... What vexis me is that ONCE MORE limbo players are obligated to CHANGE in detriment of a Community that just doesn't take the time to learn how to play with him in a squad or even cares to give him a chance. This is borderline "framist"...

So, the best-simplest way to "fix" him (imo) is just make Banish unaffect other players. POINT. (Unless in specific circunstances - see link above). This would make him more like other frames (Frost or Ember, where element attacks also only affect enemies), but then he wouldn't be special!

The second is to Buff Limbo Bomb. In Sanctuary, I have tried diferent enemies parties and mod set ups but the "average damage" works very VERY poorly. The Algorithm is lowering the damage by dividing it disporpotionally betwen all enemies inside (I can make a video if you like).

Also, this new change will just benefit a squad in Cataclism. If Limbo just Banishes and Stasis enemies, allies will not be able to damage them (ence, still annoying other players).

In conclusion, it is my belief that no matter what you do to him I will still play with him SOLO... And, with that to, I am fine.

Edited by (PS4)leonidasx666
Reviewing Limbo Mechanics

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il y a 20 minutes, (PS4)leonidasx666 a dit :

Also, this new change carries some questions:

-How will enemy bullets behave comming from outside Cataclism? Will statis still affect those? 

-How will it affect ally fire also comming from outside Cataclism? Will it behave the same or diferently? Or will allies have to be inside it to work?

-How will allies damage enemies in Rift and Statis if they are NOT in Rift themselves? (THIS issue will eventually come, I am certain of it).

Same old. You can't shoot at the enemies in the rift, while in the real space, since the bullet cannot go into the rift. All they do is let the allies shoot while in the rift. Read about the mechanics of limbo.

Edited by zhellon

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dang Limbo change means I can't use him to cheese the Aimglide headshot rivens anymore, and while the buffs to Titaina's exalted weapons is nice will her other abilities get a look as well? like enemies hit by her 3 drifting off into space, and the sheer amount of micro management that her 2 requires?

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OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (you call stasis godly, but it isnt the only power to stop a lot of enemies in their tracks, is Bastille godly, is sleep godly, is stop godly?)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

Edited by KlutzMeister

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On 2018-06-11 at 11:16 AM, skysarmy said:

welp, can't do 3 headshots during aimglide any more, it seems

Bastille + Arca Plasmor with multishot. Challenge complete.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

Also, this new change carries some questions:

-How will enemy bullets behave comming from outside Cataclism? Will statis still affect those?

-How will it affect ally fire also comming from outside Cataclism? Will it behave the same or diferently? Or will allies have to be inside it to work?

-How will allies damage enemies in Rift and Statis if they are NOT in Rift themselves? (THIS issue will eventually come, I am certain of it).

In conclusion, it is my belief that no matter what you do to him I will still play with him SOLO... And, with that to, I am fine.

 

enemies outside of the rift dont need to have their bullets frozen because they cant hurt you anyway.

allies shouldnt be trying to shoot enemies in the rift from the outside because they cant do anything to them.

limbo can be the master magician/dimension lord without directly influencing how other people interact with their weapons and the enemies. this whole notion that its ok for 1 player to controll his whole team is quite ridiculous. i and many others dont log into warframe to have 1 player who is playing limbo impose rules on how we play and interact with the environment when no other frame does this. it feels like its such a crime to not want to fall under the control of limbo. ive stopped playing limbo for a long while because i cannot play him to his full potential without stepping on toes. i shouldnt have to feel like that. dont we all come to play warframe to have fun with each other? do people really think its ok to control how other people play? DE needs to think really hard about this. and put a proper rework on limbo.

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With the Titania change, she really is going to be a miniature flying Mesa now. What about her other abilities though? They're kinda wonky, yeah?

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8 minutes ago, (XB1)Ein Sof said:

With the Titania change, she really is going to be a miniature flying Mesa now. What about her other abilities though? They're kinda wonky, yeah?

Honestly the only ones I use are her 1,3, and 4.  Her 3 Lantern, I'll only use sparingly to help during bullet hell situations. 

Edited by DatDarkOne

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17 minutes ago, KlutzMeister said:

OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (you call stasis godly, but it isnt the only power to stop a lot of enemies in their tracks, is Bastille godly, is sleep godly, is stop godly?)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

Stasis is vastly superior to any of the abilities you mentioned. Bastille is limited by range and number of targets while not making the caster invulnerable, sleep is limited by range, duration and the same non-invulnerability for non affected targets.

Limbo's stop IS godly because it literally affects every target in the rift, which makes him completely invulnerable for its entire duration. Factor in the fact that you can be in the rift, while outside cataclysm, killing everything inside while you're 100% safe outside. Yes, it is godly compared with the abilities you mentioned. 

With the changes, the only limiting factor will be duration. And even then it isn't a major issue. 

 

Constantly shrinking cataclysm, paired with stasis, is what allows cataclysm's 300 impact damage to be even remotely viable as a source of damage. Enemies at the border is largely problematic if you don't have the size + duration balanced correctly.

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19 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

enemies outside of the rift dont need to have their bullets frozen because they cant hurt you anyway.

allies shouldnt be trying to shoot enemies in the rift from the outside because they cant do anything to them.

limbo can be the master magician/dimension lord without directly influencing how other people interact with their weapons and the enemies. this whole notion that its ok for 1 player to controll his whole team is quite ridiculous. i and many others dont log into warframe to have 1 player who is playing limbo impose rules on how we play and interact with the environment when no other frame does this. it feels like its such a crime to not want to fall under the control of limbo. ive stopped playing limbo for a long while because i cannot play him to his full potential without stepping on toes. i shouldnt have to feel like that. dont we all come to play warframe to have fun with each other? do people really think its ok to control how other people play? DE needs to think really hard about this. and put a proper rework on limbo.

The problem isn't so much that limbo has the ability to control how players play the game, it has to do with knowing when it is appropriate to do certain things, and having a build that doesn't just shut everything down whenever you do something.

 

One mistake I see a lot of limbo players make is just ramping range up as high as it can go. It really doesn't need max range. Heck, 110% range is more than enough for cataclysm to be plenty big, but not so huge that it ruins the flow of a match. Heck, negative range can be vastly superior to high range, as well. With negative range you can completely shut down choke points with stasis + cataclysm without affecting target objectives. 

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i would perfer if limbo could pull and push enemies to and from his current plane, maybe even use the marking system like ash to do so
so i dont have to jump out of the rift into a room full of enemies when i want to fight some in the rift, especially withought haveing to stop time

 

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6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

snip

all i was trying to say is that stasis isn't so far removed from everything else to be considered godly. is it really powerful? yeah. should it be toned down? maybe. Is it the only power to stop enemies in their tracks and give you sweet reprieve from the hail of bullets, allowing you to continue living? not even close.

so much in this game is amazingly powerful,  everything has its drawbacks. tell me the difference between spamming cc and never getting hit and spamming cc in the void and never getting hit? yes Bastille is limited by range strength and duration, but can be spammed making up for most of the drawbacks. sending enemies to the rift effectively requires range and duration...spamming requires you to collapse cataclysm, which leaves you wide open to any not already in your clutches, like most cc frames.

I still stand by my ideas, but I think the return to normal speed that i proposed should be affected by strength mods to better limit it's potential and making strength feel like so much of a dump stat.

also, 300 impact an effective damage power? you what!?

infant, let me adjust my ideas.

 

'OK,  keep what your doing to limbo, but, stasis should still freeze time for user limbo's projectiles (add 40% crit damage on release), ending stasis should set the enemies into motion slowly ramping up speed 0 to 100% in about 2/3 to 1 times the duration of stasis's effect  (effected by power strength)

also, remove portal from rift dash, add it to his first power, make it slightly bigger, allow bullets shot through it to affect both planes and add 70% crit damage to projectiles fired through it (would be useful to quiet down the complaints of non limbos pre-rework "i can't shoot those glowy guys")

and, i just want to repeat myself, a constantly shrinking cataclysm is a pain when dealing with enemies at the border, for everyone involved

in order to add more utility to power strength and to maybe even add a little limbomb back into the game, have cataclysm collapse damage be affected by power strength and damage dealt in the cataclysm (limbom was broken,yeah, but because it didn't really require power strength and didn't require much more than tapping 4 over and over)'

thanks for helping me improve my idea, lets hope whatever happens, limbo is still fun to play.

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Can we get a little more duration for stasis, while keeping the timestop for limbo's projectiles themselves? since that would mean others in the team get to play however they want, but limbo himself is still limited, which would make the increased base duration more fair

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1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

The problem isn't so much that limbo has the ability to control how players play the game, it has to do with knowing when it is appropriate to do certain things, and having a build that doesn't just shut everything down whenever you do something.

 

One mistake I see a lot of limbo players make is just ramping range up as high as it can go. It really doesn't need max range. Heck, 110% range is more than enough for cataclysm to be plenty big, but not so huge that it ruins the flow of a match. Heck, negative range can be vastly superior to high range, as well. With negative range you can completely shut down choke points with stasis + cataclysm without affecting target objectives. 

how is it a mistake? if people want to build max range or any variation of range why cant they? they are making their build work. the problem is not the build. any build you decide to use should be viable. this is the thing i see limbo players using to divide themselves between good and bad. as i said if a player needs to make a build to not annoy their team then whatever is causing people to do that needs to change.

"The Rift" is something here forcing people into a very specific build and when someone doesnt use that build all of a sudden they are "Bad limbos". do you not see how crazy that sounds. this is not a competitive game. we should be celebrating build diversity not shunning people for playing the builds they decide work for their playstyle.

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il y a 8 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

how is it a mistake? if people want to build max range or any variation of range why cant they? they are making their build work. the problem is not the build. any build you decide to use should be viable. this is the thing i see limbo players using to divide themselves between good and bad. as i said if a player needs to make a build to not annoy their team then whatever is causing people to do that needs to change.

"The Rift" is something here forcing people into a very specific build and when someone doesnt use that build all of a sudden they are "Bad limbos". do you not see how crazy that sounds. this is not a competitive game. we should be celebrating build diversity not shunning people for playing the builds they decide work for their playstyle.

Lol. So with all warframes. There are good builds, and there are inefficient ones. The problem is that it is impossible to balance in all respects. 

For example, limbo in power and energy efficiency = bad limbo. (Assembly without duration is ineffective in any case.)

Edited by zhellon

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Just now, zhellon said:

Lol. So with all warframes. There are good builds, and there are inefficient ones. The problem is that it is impossible to balance in all respects. 

For example, limbo in power = bad limbo.

no it doesn't a limbo having power strength does not make him bad. you don't get to decide that for people.

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il y a 5 minutes, EinheriarJudith a dit :

no it doesn't a limbo having power strength does not make him bad. you don't get to decide that for people.

Still, I have a poor idea how useful it can be to build at 13% duration.

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18 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

no it doesn't a limbo having power strength does not make him bad. you don't get to decide that for people.

The mistake I was referring to was more with regard to people defaulting to a specific build because it seems logical. Max range seems to make a lot of sense but limbo is a little trickier insofar as he directly impacts the others on his team.

My point is that he has perfectly viable build options that don't necessarily force platstyles

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