COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.

[DomoSapien]

Over the next few days, I'll be collecting a mass of opinions on the Founder's Program from both Reddit and the Warframe forums for the purpose of conglomerating them all in a cohesive post regarding the future of Warframe. This is a joint-post for Non-Founders and Founders alike and as such, I'd appreciate if there was a heavy amount of respect for one another. Opinions WILL differ in this thread, including absolute polar-opposites, but the point isn't to discuss it here, but just to provide your input.

 

My request is simple:

 

1. Please post your opinions on the Founder's Program including ANY facet or impact you feel it has had or currently has on the game, the community, or any other aspect of the Warframe IP. The more detailed, the better. The floor is open to you and I ask that you provide an opinion on literally ANYTHING related to the Founder's Program that you feel is noteworthy.

2. Please, if you can, provide a ONE WORD description or label of your opinion.

 

DISCLAIMER: By responding to this thread, you're giving me permission to quote you, verbatim (I will not distort, alter, or otherwise paraphrase), on your opinions regarding the Founder's Program in a mass thread regarding the subject itself in which your quote will be given a classification title to further refine it's classification to other opinions. The word in which I asked you to classify your opinion as may or may not follow your quote. Not every opinion given will be quoted, and this post will be linked in the pending write-up for referential purposes.

 

UPDATE 1: Thank you every for the feedback so far. It's been incredibly enlightening. I've even come across viewpoints I didn't know existed until today. Keep the opinions coming. It's been a great thread so far. PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO PROVIDE A ONE WORD DESCRIPTION OF YOUR OPINION IF YOU CAN THINK OF ONE. Keep it coming!

 

EDIT 1: Formatting.

Edited June 16, 2018 by DomoSapien
Formatting

[DJ_Vauban]

Um...this isn't another "give us Excalibur prime" thread is it? Please tell me it's not

[Zephyr_TheMLGPro]

Why do some founders want special treatment, i mean i respect you guys for putting like 200$+ on a game when it was in beta but now there's alot of non founders who have put thousands of $$.

[PyreFox]

In before lock

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

1.  I think it was a great thing as a whole, to be honest.  It doesn't work for alot of games, but it did here and we can all thank Founders for getting Warframe on its feet.  That said, I think the level of self-importance among many founders is very evident at times - not from all founders, just a select few.  Many seem to believe they still carry Warframe on their backs and believe it's only due to them this game is a continuing success.  They fail to realize millions have come along since then, and as a whole, have contributed more, in terms of opinions and financials, to the current state of the game.

Founders Package has always been polarizing.  I understand DE has to keep their promises and that's fine, I'm actually 100% okay with Founders having their exclusive shiny toys.  As a PS4 player though, I'm disappointed our launch was 2 weeks after the Founders Pack ended.  I think it would have been perfectly reasonable to run the Founders program on consoles too for a short time after their respective launches, but that's neither here nor there - it didn't happen, and we should accept that as a reality.  It does leave some people feeling a bit shafted - but not really worthy of pouring salt over.   I think DE took great steps to alleviate any salty feeling by simply removing Excal P. et. al from our codex.  If it doesn't exist in our build, it's no loss to us.  

I believe you were in the topic earlier where founders wanted more work put towards the things they got in that package - and I think at this point, given who funds the game in the current year, that would be wrong.  I think we should acknowledge the historical importance of the Founders Pack - but I also think we should to some degree wipe it from our memories and not allocate more time and effort to promises from 5 years ago. 

2. Polarizing.       

Edited June 16, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[Heckzu]

9 minutes ago, DomoSapien said:

impact you feel it has had or currently has on the game, the community, or any other aspect of the Warframe IP

Without the founders, we probably wouldn't have Warframe today.  Warframe's founder program wasn't like those of ported or translated (e.g. Korean MMORPGs): there was no safety net for Digital Extremes, and for the founders it was like throwing money into a penny stock. As a founder yourself, you should very well know how risky it was given the bare bones state Warframe was at the time.

3 minutes ago, DJ_Vauban said:

Um...this isn't another "give us Excalibur prime" thread is it? Please tell me it's not

OP already has Excalibur Prime.

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

4 minutes ago, DJ_Vauban said:

Um...this isn't another "give us Excalibur prime" thread is it? Please tell me it's not

He's a founder himself so I highly doubt it.  He was asking opinions on the program and how its impacted the game.  

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I feel Founders being the minority is constantly being berated and looked upon as elitist scum.

I am aware there are some who really are elitist scum who will say things like "I have this and you don't have so I am superior" but not all of us are like that.

I am sick of people asking for Founders items when they were sold and marketed as exclusives.

People like to call Founders entitled or elitist for wanting what we paid for to remain exclusive, but yet fail to see how entitled they are acting by demanding for what people paid money for and was sold to them as exclusive.

Basically, in my opinion,

Spoiler

 

Founders bought a golden apple from DE and DE promised and said this golden apple will be exclusive to us forever.

People who owns an apple wants the golden apple and constantly berates Founders for owning one then demands DE to give them a golden apple.

DE caves in and make a platinum apple which is basically an upgraded platinum-coated golden apple and gives it to everyone.

Founders are generally ok that non-Founders get a metallic apple that is equivalent to the golden apple since the golden apple also got a slight boost.

On closer inspection, Founders noticed that the platinum apple is 50% bigger in size.

Founders try to ask for the golden apple and platinum apple to be equal and non-Founders berate them further.

That's my viewpoint on the Umbral Mods.

Basically, majority makes demands. DE caves in.

Nevermind that people can get the same item with better looks for free but they had to straight up make it better with the Umbral mods.

Now, I await the calls of "salty selfish founder" from the community.

 

For 5 years, Founders get called names and berated over 25 armor and then they do this:

Umbral Fiber (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+192.5% Armor

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Vitality (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+770% Health

+11% Tau Resist

Umbral Intensify (16 capacity cost - 8 for Umbra):

+66% Ability Strength

+11% Tau Resist

Steel Fiber (14 capacity cost):

+110% Armor

Vitality (12 capacity cost):

+440% Health

Intensify (11 capacity cost):

+30% Ability Strength

Transient Fortitude (16 capacity cost):

+55% Ability Strength

-27.5% Ability Duration

Spoiler

Straight up power creep just to satisfy the masses.

It's not even equality anymore.

This is a vendor who sells us exclusive items for money when they were desperate, then when they are in good condition, releases the same item via giving it another look to go around the legal issues, but decides to make it even better and gives it to everyone for free.

They wanna release the same item and give it another look? That's fine.

They wanna release the same item and give it another look AND makes it so much better that we look like idiots for even buying and using the original item? I am disappointed.

I was hoping for equality between Founders and Non-Founders in this update.

I had hope Excalibur Prime gets a buff that makes him in line with other Primes, while Non-Founders can get the same as us but just another look. A much better look if I might add.

That may have made Excalibur Prime a skin but that's fine with me.

However, I wasn't expecting they make him redundant via power creep.

Even worse, they are gonna make more Umbras and do the same for other Primes.

Great.

I have really lost a lot of respect for DE after this update.

Because I always thought they were not in it solely for money but I am not so sure now.

It seems popularity and money from the majority is always more important.

As a businessman, I understand and respect that.

As a gamer and fan, I am disappointed beyond measure.

Edited June 16, 2018 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[DJ_Vauban]

1 minute ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

He's a founder himself so I highly doubt it.  He was asking opinions on the program and how its impacted the game.  

Eh, it's kinda late here, first thing that always comes to mind when I hear something about founders is Excalibur prime, it's a reflex <w<; Nevermind me

[xMajorSatanx]

8 minutes ago, Zephyr_TheMLGPro said:

Why do some founders want special treatment, i mean i respect you guys for putting like 200$+ on a game when it was in beta but now there's alot of non founders who have put thousands of $$.

Because, they put in 200$ when the game was in its early state with a supposedly promising future but truly nothing to actually support that. Down the line, people have spent thousands of dollars in the game to support them for them to continue going forward. AND its not like as if becoming a founder gives you things which dominate rest of the class or field. 

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

2 minutes ago, xMajorSatanx said:

Because, they put in 200$ when the game was in its early state with a supposedly promising future but truly nothing to actually support that. Down the line, people have spent thousands of dollars in the game to support them for them to continue going forward. AND its not like as if becoming a founder gives you things which dominate rest of the class or field. 

Ever considered maybe Founders can also pay just as much as non-Founders if not more after they bought the Founders pack?

[DomoSapien]

13 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

*snip*

Unrelated, but I really liked your usage of apples for this example. Lol. Thank you.

[DomoSapien]

5 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Ever considered maybe Founders can also pay just as much as non-Founders if not more after they bought the Founders pack?

 

9 minutes ago, xMajorSatanx said:

Because, they put in 200$ when the game was in its early state with a supposedly promising future but truly nothing to actually support that. Down the line, people have spent thousands of dollars in the game to support them for them to continue going forward. AND its not like as if becoming a founder gives you things which dominate rest of the class or field. 

 

It's really hard for me to turn down discussion or bar myself from participating, but to you two, I please ask that we avoid discussion here for now. I'm merely looking for an information dump. The write-up I'm working on will ultimately provide tools for each side to have a full-fledged and proper discussion; my goal is for that discussion to be the most conclusive in Warframe's history. Ambitious, but I feel we can do it.

 

Thank you both for your input, otherwise. I appreciate it.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, DomoSapien said:

Thank you both for your input, otherwise. I appreciate it.

Ok and thank you for consolidating..do share your findings when it's done.

Thanks.

[fatpig84]

Founders are often look down as either elitist scum or wallet warriors. That never changed since 2013 until now.

Being a MR25 doesn't help either as it reinforces the image I am a wallet warrior but most people failed to realize I am high MR is because by time a new content patch or reinforcement pack appears, I would have nearly maxed everything else before it. So that keeps my MR at the top for awhile. 

And I don't even play regularly, I only play when there is a booster or reinforcement or major patch :/

 

As for the founder's program, I am definitely happy with it. Looking back in time, all the storied discussions we had with DE via ingame council chat and design council....
All that experience being involved in the game, that is worth the admission alone :)

Edited June 16, 2018 by fatpig84

[Corvid]

I personally feel that it is unfortunate that gameplay affecting items are locked behind the pack. However, I understand why it was done the way it was (DE needed some incentive to get people to support the game back then).

I also find the argument of "Founders paid a few hundred back then, but I've spent over a thousand in the intervening years" to be quite absurd, because it seems to have ignored the instances where a Founder has done both.

[Sibernetika]

Oh boy I feel another excal umbra is better than excal prime Post is coming.. 

[fatpig84]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I personally feel that it is unfortunate that gameplay affecting items are locked behind the pack. However, I understand why it was done the way it was (DE needed some incentive to get people to support the game back then).

I also find the argument of "Founders paid a few hundred back then, but I've spent over a thousand in the intervening years" to be quite absurd, because it seems to have ignored the instances where a Founder has done both.

No kidding, I know of Founders who bought every Prime Pack.  They definitely spent thousands on the game they love. 
They even bought skins for real cash to support budding warframe artists.

[DomoSapien]

2 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

Oh boy I feel another excal umbra is better than excal prime Post is coming.. 

Nope. Would appreciate your opinion, unless you're just stopping by.

Edited June 16, 2018 by DomoSapien

[Evil]

50 minutes ago, Zephyr_TheMLGPro said:

Why do some founders want special treatment, i mean i respect you guys for putting like 200$+ on a game when it was in beta but now there's alot of non founders who have put thousands of $$.

Sir, you deserve a primed narrow minded. 

Honestly, it's like you think all founders buy the pack and then stop supporting the game altogether. There are countless founders (with me included) who buy prime access, tennogen, and platinum all the time.

[RX-3DR]

I think the perspective of this has been too adversarial where people are constantly framing Founders for being selfish and wanting to keep things for themselves. It's very easy to band together a bunch of people in this silly war against Founders by rallying along the line of claiming Founders have a distinct advantage over everyone else and that everyone deserves to have it. The discussion needs to be turned towards a less divisive route of, is exclusivity a bad thing and is the exclusivity of being a Founder that significant of an impact to the game at all. People need to stop viewing this with their teams, the fact that people were quick to judge OP as to whether or not he is a Founder is exactly this. This is not a Founder vs non-Founder fight.

Now, on to the actual question, is there anything wrong with exclusivity. If it does not come with any significant advantage, I don't believe so. This is common with a lot of games now with pre-purchase bundles where you get exclusive items, there's nothing inherently wrong with them. Much like how you cannot fault an old man who has a discontinued car, it is ridiculous that people are attempting to shame people who bought things that are not available. Yes, it doesn't feel good to know people might have things that you don't. Maybe you have $500 to invest now compared to someone who invested $200 4 year ago. It's never a good feeling knowing that you missed out a limited edition purchase simply because you found out late. However, it is not an excuse for you to start demonizing people who have things you do not have. This idea that you are entitled to purchase something now because someone purchased it years ago is ridiculous. You can already see examples of people like that in this thread.

So lets take an objective look at the contents of the Founder's Package. Is it a significant advantage? No. There's no long or short answer to it, it is simply no. Just because it has an effect on the game does not mean it is a sizable advantage. If you think a small bit of stats is making a Founder's Excalibur Prime do twice as much damage as your regular Excalibur, you need to stop pointing fingers at everything and look at yourself. Things are being purposefully exaggerated out of proportions simply as a tactic to try to pretend that it isn't fair. Before you start pointing fingers, "But you have Excalibur Prime so of course you would say that", I don't own a Lato Prime and Skana Prime. While I would like to be able to get my hands on a Lato Prime, I don't see it as a necessity, I don't see my game being diminished in any way because I don't have it. Just because I'm willing to use it doesn't mean that every other Secondary weapon in the game is removed from my game.

 

Personally, I don't really care if people had Excalibur Prime or not but I think it's ridiculous that people are demanding that they be able to get it just by virtue of spending money. I'd even dare say that the people who are aggressively demanding that Founder Exclusive be available to them are just as selfish and often, even more so than people who want to keep every advantage to themselves only. Veiling it behind the guise that everyone should be equal does not make you a hero fighting for the people. It makes you a selfish person trying to manipulate a mob to allow yourself to get things that you previously could not.

If I had to sum this all up, it would be that the whole discussion is completely exaggerated to pit everyone against Founders. 

[rand0mname]

Founder program? Hmm.

First reaction: not this again. There never will be a civilized conversation, mostly because people who care to talk about it beyond "not this again" are very... passionate.

What I think about it? On the players side, it was a blind leap of faith (money well spent, if you ask me). For me (not a Founder) it become a... IDK, a symbol of trust? An unwritten guarantee that DE will never put grofits on the first pace and will try to keep their promises as best as they can? I will eventually get to MR 30, Excalibur Prime or not and from what I understand, Design Council (does it even exist still) is not a Founders exclusive group. So... Why so much drama?

Sadly, for some players (Founders or not) it also turned into “My precioussss!” kind of a deal :(.

[----Legacy----]

To be honest, offering a playable part of the game as a once in a lifetime never coming back one of a kind deal simply because of being in a desperate moment was DE's biggest mistake in the development of warframe. Steve himself has recognized that the whole founder deal was a really short sighted thing because it was created when they expected warframe to last 18 months at most, and now he regrets having to constantly say "no" to players who want access to excalibur/lato/skana prime but won't ever be able to get it because they found the game a bit too late or simply didn't have the money to support them back then when this deal was available.

You can find the related info in the thread below: 

Video is embedded there and timestamp is exactly the same (around 58:56) since he addresses the situation of all the exclusive gear, mainly the old vandals which were already re-released, and briefly mentions the founder gear issue, his regret with amd why it can't be re-released while touching such topic.

Edit: With that in mind, I respect DE's decision of keeping their promise despite how fool i think they were just by doing it.

Edited June 16, 2018 by ----Legacy----

[(XBOX)N7 Sinner]

Six words come to mind: I couldn't care less about it.

If I may. What do you hope to achieve with this thread? Thus far, all I have seen is another thread littered with subtle complaints about a "Platinum Apple" that is really just a "Golden Apple" with a platinum colored paint job. I have nothing but the upmost respect for you guys and gals for keeping the game afloat when it was likely to sink. Were it not for the Founder's Program, I wouldn't be enjoying this game today. That being said, DE never promised you that you would have the absolute best version of Excalibur. They only made the promise that Excalibur Prime would be yours forever. If anything, it is the Umbral mods that give Excalibur Umbra the edge over his Prime counterpart.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, I have this to say. I never cared for the items. I never see a Founder flaunting around on Xbox and that is fine with me. Personally, I hate anything with the word "exclusive" attached to it. Wear them with pride if you insist, but just know that some of us just don't care. I only begin care when you turn around and complain because you feel slighted that something better came around that russled your jimmies.

Edited June 16, 2018 by (XB1)N7 Sinner

[kubbi]

Having the founders items exclusive to one period only was a mistake. I think DE realized that but at the same time they've learned from that mistake by not doing that again with future primes. They promised the founders items wouldnt return and cant back away from their word I guess. 

I can understand the frustration from non founders and personally wouldnt mind if the items were to return. But a promise was made so I think the whole thing should just be just let go.

I'm also getting tired whenever you talk about something or playing you get the "expected better of a founder" or "as a founder you should know better" thrown around. Founders are just regular players with a few extra shinies yet are somehow a different kind of person? I just dont get it.