Kitgun Fear

[walter100]

I just watched Devstream, and I saw the Kitgun. I liked it a lot, but I was afraid because we have a big problem with the Zaws. They were added a while ago, but they did not have many new Zaws or parts of other factions.

Will it be the same with the Kitguns? I mean, the more parts with different statuses and functions result in the variety of builds, which is very good especially for firearms

I would very much like the DE to pay more attention to the Zaws (and Kitguns when it arrives), Add more types of Zaws, more basic Formats or parts of existing weapons (I would love to have a Great Scyther in Grim Reaper weapon format)

Not to mention that there are still missing weapons like Whips, double grip, Gunblades and other

Sorry for any english error, it's not my native language

[Alaeacus]

3 minutes ago, walter100 said:

Not to mention that there are still missing weapons like Whips, double grip, Gunblades and other

It will be a very odd thing indeed if there are no Kitguns that are dual-wield.  SImilarly, I was a tiny bit annoyed when there were no Zaw Sword&Shield strikes.   

[Thundervision]

I hope they will address this, yeah.

Though my biggest fear is that the most ug... u-, yeah, unfashioned parts will have the best values, that and the possible lack of variety will be cruel :F

 

 

[WarmongerExtraordinare]

obliterate gilding out of existence

this single change will make zaws much better (and i finally wont have to DOUBLE MAX IT TO GET MY MASTERY)

[Firetempest]

It's still a very new system that could use refinent. But I think it's still kinda hacked together from the stat changing skin system. Thus the problem actually pulling them apart and remodifying. And how many parts are there for new players to waste syndicate points and resources on before they have climed the ranks. The top teir 4 weights are the only good ones. Many handle types are basically non-options for some strikes.

Then whatever they do with Melee 3.0. So that's likely slowing down additional content.

The selling point I think will be the arcane effects added to kitguns. But it also feels like a system made to pump out MR and easier unique event rewards when you only have to make a few extra parts with modified stats and not a whole new weapon.

 

[Thundervision]

1 minute ago, PhantomThiefOfHearts said:

(and i finally wont have to DOUBLE MAX IT TO GET MY MASTERY)

They should just turn the first 30 ranks into some kind of 'test drive' when you can change parts and test it yourself out in the field. And if you liked any combination -- gild it to start gaining affinity.

[shut]

3 minutes ago, PhantomThiefOfHearts said:

obliterate gilding out of existence

Eh.

I'd rather they allowed dismantling of Zaws that aren't gilded, so you can get all your parts back at no cost. Gilding should "lock the stats in" and start allowing Mastery points to be earned; the un-gilded state should be for experimenting with the feel of the weapon.

[taiiat]

28 minutes ago, walter100 said:

I would love to have a Great Scyther in Grim Reaper weapon format

that's something that i really think is missing from Zaws, indeed.
you should be able to make BOTH a 1H and 2H version of any Strike. big, slow, hard hitting vs small, fast, lighter hitting.

and i would desire and expect similar functionality from Kitguns (for them that would probably be Single/Dual for everything i guess?)

9 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

I'd rather they allowed dismantling of Zaws that aren't gilded, so you can get all your parts back at no cost. Gilding should "lock the stats in" and start allowing Mastery points to be earned; the un-gilded state should be for experimenting with the feel of the weapon.

that doesn't address that we have to Level every Lego Weapon (since Kitguns will probably be the same) twice for no reason, heh.
if Leveling 1 is for testing, why not just move the testing to before the construction phase (test any combination in Simulation? or dedicated places on Earth/Venus like a Sparring Den at Earth or a Shooting Range at Venus). and then don't make Players Level their items twice for no particular reason.

[shut]

11 minutes ago, taiiat said:

that doesn't address that we have to Level every Lego Weapon (since Kitguns will probably be the same) twice for no reason, heh.

Maybe Gilding it should provide all of its current benefits, but without resetting the level?

So you tape together a brand-new Zaw, you level it to 30, you decide that you enjoy the way it feels to use, you press the "Gild" button to lock the stats in, and bam, you instantly gain all 30 levels' worth of mastery.

Edited September 28, 2018 by SortaRandom

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Maybe Gilding it should provide all of its current benefits, but without resetting the level?

So you tape together a brand-new Zaw, you level it to 30, you decide that you enjoy the way it feels to use, you press the "Gild" button to lock the stats in, and bam, you instantly gain all 30 levels' worth of mastery.

that's what i had in mind, yes.
though i also don't really see the point in Gilding but i don't have a lot of reason to argue against it if it isn't a second Leveling without reason - i mean the additional Stats being applied later is a great way to confuse Players by having the Stats change later but it's not outright offensive it's just #hiddeninformation/mechanics which is business as usual for Warframe.

_{and besides, a Sparring Den and Shooting Range could be pretty cool - or since we expect lego Primaries at some point too perhaps uh, Kitguns would be a Time Trial Combat course, and when we get lego Primaries that would be a Marksmans' Range?}

[Autongnosis]

If anything my problem with both Zaws and Kitguns is that they look ugly as sin. Until we can use skins on them, I'll just do as i did for Zaws and make them for mastery and then forget they exist sadly. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

there's a lot more variety available with guns, by nature of their design. a melee is, when all is said and done, a stick that you hit people with that sometimes has a blade on it. there are ways to make different shaped blades and sticks, but that is still all they are; simple weapons. guns can be made to fire slowly or quickly, high damage or low damage, long range or close range, or even fire something different like rockets or lasers. there will almost certainly be more options for kitguns than there was for Zaws. 

as for adding more Zaws in the future, i'd like it, but not everyone is a fan of the grind for them (having to gild them is probably the main reason behind it) and DE probably won't want to distract people from Fortuna by adding content outside of it, at least, not right away. when Plains first launched DE just focused solely on it for a while, and added more to it in order to get out as much use of that content from the players as possible before they start asking for something else.

[541K4T]

Since Zaws and Kitguns are modular weapon, IMO one change that would make Zaws, KItguns more fun to play with, is the ability to assemble and disassemble them. This will encourage players to fiddle with various combination, which is currently limited by the repeated resource farming.

[HugintheCrow]

You're all overestimating the Zaw grind. I was able to build 5 different good Zaw weapons within 2 weeks of playtime, all the while also levelling them up, maxing out with forma (took like 1 to 2 forma to max a single Zaw, super cheap) as well as playing with other weapons, grinding some prime parts doing random alerts, even some Eidolons. Resource costs for Zaws are also pretty low (if you actually play the game), the only thing that's pretty steep is the 10k standing cost for the links.

A good advice: Don't bother with Zaws until you are Surah.

6 hours ago, ChaosSabre said:

I didn't have patience to farm all that zaw resources to actually experiment with those ( fishing and mining is so annoying plus constantly getting the cetus standing ). I just took the cheapest parts, made them and leveled them for mastery. If there was a system that let you actually take apart zaws ( and amps and kitguns ) I'd actually try to mess around with those. As it stands now it'll be the same for kitguns as well for me. Will just make them for mastery and trash them.

If you play the game casually, I could see why you would have hard time getting anywhere. Don't expect to be able to use certain systems without applying yourself first.

Mining out a single cave like 3 times at most could give you enough to build a whole Zaw. That's like half an hour tops, c'mon.

[(PSN)SlyFox5679]

I was annoyed with the massive grind for standing to buy zaw blueprint parts and most people in my clan don't wanna even go to POE to grind bounties.

i hope kitguns have more options,dual weild guns, scope options, full auto,semi auto,fire rate options built in elements like the plague zaws had which was nice.

these also need more options for crit chance/crit damage,status chance ect because all my zaws were kinda meh because my crit damage was locked around whatever it was under 2x crit multiplier's and all was just painful.

[o0Despair0o]

My fear is that the guns will all look like repurposed toasters.

Look at the one shown in the gameplay demo. That thing looked like a nail gun.

 

(yes, I know there's a type of nailgun in the game, but at least that thing doesn't look like it's made of LEGO).

 

I'm playing Warframe, not House Building Simulator 2069.

[Chronometria]

If we don't get dual wield kitguns, then the whole thing is a waste of time in my opinion.

[walter100]

11 hours ago, 541K4T said:

Since Zaws and Kitguns are modular weapon, IMO one change that would make Zaws, KItguns more fun to play with, is the ability to assemble and disassemble them. This will encourage players to fiddle with various combination, which is currently limited by the repeated resource farming.

I think they could use the Parts of Zaw and Kitgun to solve one of the big problems of the game, Drops unique in planets, Apart from the fact that the players need to release the map or make resources (Frames our craft Resources), you have a lot of dead missions in the planets , players focus on fewer missions for their benefits

My solution would be to put parts of zaws being dropped in each mission of each planet, at least 1 part for each mission, obviously those parts of Zaws and Kitguns would be thematic of the planet and the wild animal or faction that inhabits that planet, you would not be limited to take the Zaw part only on that mission, but Zaw's original mission would have a greater chance of dropping that Zaw.

Rarity System, the game would have 5 rarities, and 3 of them would be dropped normally, These rarities would be:
Base (the current Zaws, much more balanced in terms of Stats
Bronze (Rare minimum that can be dropped)
Silver (Would have Stats Point Arrangement greater than Bronze
Gold (Would have a Stats Point Arrangement greater than Silver)
Primed (You can not drop it, Baro would always have to sell a Zaw part or more, to be sold, but it could be a reward for events, it would have the same strength difference as the primed weapons in relation to their Base versions)

The reason for the DE to be able to like this system would be because it foments the market, as the Stats would be random, would be the same thing that happened with the Riven, that is to say, It would make Platinum of the market circulate even more, not only that, we would have more Rivens which would circulate more platinum still, and not to mention the people who buy platinum, who would have more things to buy,

Summary, It would be good for players who would have a much larger variety of parties, they would spend more time in the game creating Zaws, and DE would make money for people buying platinum to buy that Zaw part level god.

Care to be had with this idea, Never leave the possibility of creating a Zaw Absurdly strong to the point of breaking the game without the use of Riven mods for this,

Edited September 30, 2018 by walter100

[Brorelia]

On 2018-09-28 at 12:55 PM, PhantomThiefOfHearts said:

obliterate gilding out of existence

this single change will make zaws much better (and i finally wont have to DOUBLE MAX IT TO GET MY MASTERY)

Oh dear, the idea of getting a forma that is not a forma and naming the weapon is so evil.

Relax and enjoy what you can since once you get everything there isn't much to do besides fashion frame and glyph hunting unless you are good at running the market.

[spirit_of_76]

On 2018-09-28 at 1:55 PM, PhantomThiefOfHearts said:

obliterate gilding out of existence

 

no make it so that you can deconstruct a non guided Zaw/kit gun so that you don't lose the parts on a bad Idea.  

[spirit_of_76]

@walter100 no that is a bad Idea and does not fit with the theme of the weapons.  a better Idea is to make certain mission more rewarding or better for some part of the grind.  Defence is an easy mission that is not time gated and consistently rewards reliks (what most people want) while being a passive resource farm spy is used for resources as there are more enemies but worse rewards.   interception is mostly unplayed outside of T3 for its very constant neo and axi farm. same goes for hiricron.  the other missions are better-done solo and net some rewards.  Overall, the loot tables need an overhaul and to have the junk like credit packs cleaned out.  this would help all missions especially spy, survival, interception, excavation... 

[walter100]

2 hours ago, spirit_of_76 said:

@walter100 no that is a bad Idea and does not fit with the theme of the weapons.  a better Idea is to make certain mission more rewarding or better for some part of the grind.  Defence is an easy mission that is not time gated and consistently rewards reliks (what most people want) while being a passive resource farm spy is used for resources as there are more enemies but worse rewards.   interception is mostly unplayed outside of T3 for its very constant neo and axi farm. same goes for hiricron.  the other missions are better-done solo and net some rewards.  Overall, the loot tables need an overhaul and to have the junk like credit packs cleaned out.  this would help all missions especially spy, survival, interception, excavation... 

Zaws has a good chance as one of the best mechanics in the game, the problem is the limitation "Zaws are Cetus weapons, they can not have parts of Grinners or Corpus weapons" This only limits the game, The rarity system I proposed, is just an idea of how to make this system more durable and more pleasing to DE, after all one of the things that moves the most platinum in the game today is the Trade, Many players buy platinum only to buy things in Trade, and who does not buy Platinum, buy items in store

[Lakais]

I like to consider the entire PoE content package as prototype. It's small and compact because DE were just throwing it out there, they're being safe by having the gear and equipment be contained to a few options. 

With more components, we have to remember that by design these parts have to be able to be combined in different ways to make different types of weapons. I too am miffed that we don't have Shield, Sparring or Glaives. But I imagine the components of these weapons would be far too specific to be believably used in other weapons and to match into a three component crafting system we have now. Option is to have more then three components and assemble them a little like Minecraft does it's crafting but then the nightmare problem shows up of attachment points and combinations. The current parts all have hard set locations where one part can attach to another. Having a sword grip and attaching two or three dagger blades to create a Glaive is an option, but it would look like garbage because none of the sword grips are designed to have an attachment point anywhere BUT the standard location. 

Also, we have to consider the database requirements. I'm pretty sure what DE has done is have the model of every combination of Zaw and Amp already made. And it is pulled out of said model database when all components are selected. This is why we can only see the assembled weapon AFTER all three parts are chosen, because the components don't exist individually. Adding just one more grip or Strike will add dozens of new models into the database of weapon models and I imagine no one at DE would be happy at the obscene bloating this would cause to the storage and processing requirements on our hard drives and their servers. 

Those are some of the potential problems that might exist behind the scenes. I would LOVE to have more options in the kitbash weaponry, but if it works the way I think it works... I'll sit here and enjoy what I have. 

[WarmongerExtraordinare]

11 часов назад, Brorelia сказал:

Oh dear, the idea of getting a forma that is not a forma and naming the weapon is so evil.

Relax and enjoy what you can since once you get everything there isn't much to do besides fashion frame and glyph hunting unless you are good at running the market.

the idea of doing another completely pointless lap of leveling the weapon is evil - give us full stats, capacity and name right from the moment of craft

and what the hell is that even supposed to mean? "relax"? "enjoy what you can"? im rank 25 and having to level zaws and amps twice EACH was the least amount of fun i ever had with this game, to the extent of not even caring about maxing the latest ones

[(XBOX)Dex Xean]

Both kitguns and zaws need access to tennogen or deluxe weapon skins otherwise what's the point if we use zaws/kit guns to get skins.