Explosive weapon suicide fix

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

I still suicide from self damage explosive weapon  with cautios shot as 90 percent reduction still is not sufficient .

And forum try hards saying git gud instead of recognition that explosive weapon suicide is a problem .

Thus.

Penta? Delete

Ogris? Delete 

Tonkor? Delete 

Angstrum, lenz, stug, kulstar, zarr, prisma angstrum, secura penta, etc all Deleted.

I got back ten open weapon slots , no more explosive weapon suicide and its an instant fix to an out dated and underperfoming class of weapons.

You listening DE?

 

[BansheePrime]

Don't aim at you feet and wonder why you die. Problem fixed. 

edit: one of the easier ways to avoid self damage is jump up and aim glide, gives you a little extra room between you, your target and the booms.

Edited November 2, 2018 by BansheePrime

[peterc3]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

You listening DE?

Listening to what?

[UndyingSouls]

Look......I love my Penta and Ogris and the rest of them.....but the problem is the player and not the gun. (pick a beefy frame? or learn to use the right weapons for the right tile set)

Self death can be avoided (will it still happen) Yes (since yours guys DEAL way more then our health pool). it is that simple. 

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

31 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Listening to what?

Server usage numbers of explosive weapon usage leading to a bandaid mod.

 

[Guest]

That isn't an issue. Just be more careful with your shots.

Without self-damage people would be running like this:

 

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

33 minutes ago, UndyingSouls said:

Look......I love my Penta and Ogris and the rest of them.....but the problem is the player and not the gun. (pick a beefy frame? or learn to use the right weapons for the right tile set)

Self death can be avoided (will it still happen) Yes (since yours guys DEAL way more then our health pool). it is that simple. 

So the kubrows kavats play tag with explosive weapon rounds is weapon user fault?

Troll squadmate jumps in front of explosive weapon rounds is weapon user fault ?

Laag is explosive weapon user fault ?

Perfect fix is delete.

[GinKenshin]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

So the kubrows kavats play tag with explosive weapon rounds is weapon user fault?

Troll squadmate jumps in front of explosive weapon rounds is weapon user fault ?

Laag is explosive weapon user fault ?

Perfect fix is delete.

-sentinel 
- keep a look out for your team/play solo 
- don't use them when you lag 

perfecter fix than delete 

I'd say the real issue is self-suicide during arbitration and going "oops, sry team" or some crap. when you die from explosives in arbitration you should have the chance at revival imo, to prevent trolling 

[kaldewej]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb (PS4)aiptekfanboy:

Troll squadmate jumps in front of explosive weapon rounds is weapon user fault ?

Surely this happens 100% of the time playing in public lobbys. And most likely the person was doing it on purpose, knowing this will kill you.

100% certain.

[Sharkgoblin]

1) take cautious shot and throw it in the bin

2) equip revenant and build him for mesmer skin

3) equip your favorite boom weapon 

4) go nuts 

i use revenant for explosive weaposn because mesmer skin makes him not killable by self damage and it doesnt consume mesmer skin stacks, enemies will still damage your mesmer skin and even if you cant die for any reason with self damage with mesmer skin you will drop to 2 hp and since you will need to recast the ability every now and then, recasting the ability or losing all the stacks with 2 hp with enemies around shooting = dead

[peterc3]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

Server usage numbers of explosive weapon usage leading to a bandaid mod.

Still not sure what DE should be listening to with your OP. Everyone else is able to use something like the Lenz and not kill themselves. Why is the Lenz in the same category for you, it actively warns you if you are within the blast radius.

Either they maintain their ability to project death onto a wide area and you need to be careful or they are massively nerfed and self-damage is removed.

[DiabolusUrsus]

OP's hyperbole aside, why are we pretending like explosive weapons are even remotely worth the risk? It's both safer and faster to clear rooms with an automatic or beam weapon + punch through than it is using an Ogris or Penta.

Rather than remove self-damage, simply capping single instances of it to prevent self-OHKOs would be enough. Losing say 60% of your current health would be plenty dangerous without straying into "cheap" territory.

[(PSN)haphazardlynamed]

6 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

OP's hyperbole aside, why are we pretending like explosive weapons are even remotely worth the risk? It's both safer and faster to clear rooms with an automatic or beam weapon + punch through than it is using an Ogris or Penta.

 

Worth the risk? maybe not

Worth the FUN? absolutely!

seeing those explosions hilariously ragdolling enemies through the roof makes the occasional self kill worth it for me.

[DiabolusUrsus]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)haphazardlynamed said:

Worth the risk? maybe not

Worth the FUN? absolutely!

seeing those explosions hilariously ragdolling enemies through the roof makes the occasional self kill worth it for me.

Well, sure. It's not like I don't use explosive weapons when I feel like it; I just don't think there's any value in pretending like everything is fine and anyone who complains is simply unskilled.

The only real problem with explosive weapons is that proportional to their performance, the risk of killing yourself is excessive. Either make the weapons worth that risk, or mitigate the risk. Personally, I'm in favor of option 2.

And before someone says it... no, Cautious Shot is not an acceptable solution. An R10 band-aid is a slap in the face of a monkey's paw style concession.

[Fallen_Echo]

16 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

1-sentinel 
2-eep a look out for your team/play solo 

3- don't use them when you lag 

1-Suprisingly i remember seeing a guy who died because his sentinel wobbled into his shot.

2-Ohh you want to kill that guy over there? It would be a shame if someone unexpectedly create a snowglobe between you and him.

3- This is as useful as telling players who have a problem with wf's netcode to just play solo.

 

Also lets not forget about the BS suicides with these weapons like:

Ancients and other hookers can hook you into your own shot.

The Stug projectile can decide to insta explode/hang onto the air randomly resulting in an instant death.

Randomised bomblet patterns sometimes can result in much bigger coverage than what you expect.

None of these weapons tell you about self-damage.

Door glitches result in suicide.

 

 

Also can we stop pretending that we need self-damage? This is not a freakin military simulator and these guns dont have enough damage to need to be balanced out like this.

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Aim gliding and firing shots from above is the best way to (1) increase your chance in landing hits against groups, (2) avoid instances of allies and pets wandering in front of shots, (3) avoid instances of shots connecting with level geometry directly in front of the user.

The 'perfect fix' like OP says is to just not use them if you're not willing to use them properly.

I would agree with the general sentiment that most (Not Lenz) launchers could do with a small increase in power, possibly in direct-impact damage so they might reward accurate shooting as well.

[Fallen_Echo]

10 hours ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

The 'perfect fix' like OP says is to just not use them if you're not willing to use them properly.

Im getting insanely tired of the stupidity. "Use them properly and you wont have problems", well yeah sure and in every instance i cant do any of that just dont use them at all?

 

I can imagine the hearing the following conversation on a corpus base:

Crewman 1: So i heard the tenno got themselves an inferior variant of the Ogris to use, it doesnt have homing capacity nor self-defense systems.

Creaman 2: Really? And how it is going for them?

Crewman 1: They freakin killing themselves in our cramped rooms and are forced to use weak pistols against our techs and nullfiers! These guys are stupid!

 

These weapons are not strong enough to warrant self-damage. This is a fact.

 

Lets take a look around in other games how explosive weapons work:

Quake 3 arena, the rocket launcher is a good explosive weapon what can hit hard but not as hard to kill you for one mistake, its even used as a mobility tool. The killzone size is clearly visible thanks to the explosion effect. These weapons are accurate.

Earth defense force 4.1, the explosive weapons are deadly and can destroy whole armadas of swarming mobs. Their killzone is clearly visible, huge and due to their sheer effectiveness its perfectly fine that they can instagib a player on a mistake but atleast they are pretty accurate.

Return to castle wolfenstein features atleast 3 deadly explosives what turn regular human enemies into meat piles and so does they do to players accurate weapons with defined clearzones.

Insurgency is a simulator style modern age fps shooter, their explosives instagib any player, they have accurate and defined eyplosion effects. Some even have an arming distance safety mechanism.

 

Now lets take a look at Warframe explosive weapons:

We have an accuracy stat what makes sure that every shot goes a bit differently what gets magnified by our wonderful host system.

Our killzones are bigger than the explosion effects in most cases, the only weapon with clearly defined killzone is the lenz.

The bouncing projectiles and bomblets can literally go where they please, the system for it is unpredictable.

Only the lenz has a safety mechanism for hitting teammates but thats it.

While we are most likely to instagib ourselves even with just adding in a base damage mod, our enemies might not even feel our shots.

Some of our explosives have uncancelable firing/exploding mechanism making sure that even if everything was perfect you might still kill yourself as time goes.

Most of our maps are cramped spaces unsuitable for such mechanisms.

Only we take damage from explosives, the bombards, noxes, grenade throwers all can go and use them as shotguns without any problems.

 

In conclusion our explosive weaponary apart from like Lenz, Phantasma and the zarr are unfit for this game. The damage is too low, there are too many random variables and the general play area is not designed for this.

 

 

 

[Robolaser]

In this easy, sometimes mind-numbing game, i see the risk of self-damage as a mean to keep me alert throughout long farming sessions.

When i don't need or want that, there's still a broad range of powerful, but safe, aoe weapons i can choose from. Some even retain the funny explosive ragdolling effect of the self-damaging ones, allowing carefree blasting.

There's currently something for every taste and need, let's please keep it that way.

 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Robolaser

[Ikusias]

About grenade launchers... explain me why we need all the dealied explosion ones to have lethal unarmed grenades?

I've lost count of the times I headshotted myself with secura penta's unarmed grenades bouching back at absurd angles and literally taking off the face of my frame...

or why grenades, missiles and the like, that are damn heavy prokectiles compared to most of our arsena, bounce back/away from nullifier bubbles?!

In general why all grenades bouce around like they're made of crazy elastic rubber?!

[Wizardrous]

Use Chroma with launcher weapons, it'll help a lot. If you turn on Vex Armor, the self damage to your shields will amplify your armor rating. I can easily get enough armor on Chroma to give 90% damage reduction when Vex Armor Scorn is active, and combined with Cautious Shot that'd be 99% damage reduction. Plus the little health damage you do take would amplify your damage with Vex Armor Fury. And if you ever do take sufficient damage that you're at risk, just use a melee with Life Strike to quickly heal up before continuing blasting. Also, if you wanna pack in more survivability, be fire elemental and use Elemental Ward for the extra HP. You probably wouldn't even need Cautious Shot if you did that. The point is, Chroma and blaster weapons are a perfect match.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Wizardrous

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

On 2018-11-04 at 5:45 PM, Wizardrous said:

Use Chroma with launcher weapons, it'll help a lot. If you turn on Vex Armor, the self damage to your shields will amplify your armor rating. I can easily get enough armor on Chroma to give 90% damage reduction when Vex Armor Scorn is active, and combined with Cautious Shot that'd be 99% damage reduction. Plus the little health damage you do take would amplify your damage with Vex Armor Fury. And if you ever do take sufficient damage that you're at risk, just use a melee with Life Strike to quickly heal up before continuing blasting. Also, if you wanna pack in more survivability, be fire elemental and use Elemental Ward for the extra HP. You probably wouldn't even need Cautious Shot if you did that. The point is, Chroma and blaster weapons are a perfect match.

I main underused mag so like i said tired of underperforming  explosive weapons with no minimum safe arming distance thus i deleted them all.

 I am just waiting till de looks at server usage numbers of explosive weapons so we get a real fix to underused weapon category.

 

Plus i now have over 9 extra weapon slots from deleted explosive weapons so its a win win for me for free extra weapon slots and no more explosive weapon suicides. 

[kaldewej]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb (PS4)aiptekfanboy:

Plus i now have over 9 extra weapon slots from deleted explosive weapons so its a win win for me for free extra weapon slots and no more explosive weapon suicides. 

"free weapon slots" which you bought some time ago for real plat...

Why sell them when they might get nerved in the future. Its not like there is a weapon slot shortage or something.

[Wizardrous]

18 hours ago, (PS4)aiptekfanboy said:

I main underused mag so like i said tired of underperforming  explosive weapons with no minimum safe arming distance thus i deleted them all.

 I am just waiting till de looks at server usage numbers of explosive weapons so we get a real fix to underused weapon category.

 

Plus i now have over 9 extra weapon slots from deleted explosive weapons so its a win win for me for free extra weapon slots and no more explosive weapon suicides. 

It is a fair point that with other Frames explosive weapons are unviable. It is a problem when only a few Frames are tanky enough to survive their own damage.

[(PSN)teacup775]

Sorry but lenz, phantasma self damage are entirely avoidable with no mods. You have a tenno. He or she can escape the damage. You just need to be quick.

The penta is just a castana style primary. It’s not that hard to avoid damage. Drop sticks void dash away, explode bombs.

Edited November 7, 2018 by (PS4)teacup775

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

Sorry but lenz, phantasma self damage are entirely avoidable with no mods. You have a tenno. He or she can escape the damage. You just need to be quick.

If you can charge Phantasma, then at the last moment have a Squad mate / Void Fissure enemy / whatever appear right in front of you,
and then still be fast enough (even ignoring Host <-> Client lag) to Void Mode outta there, you should be a subject of scientific study.
Like, that's super hero speedster level of reaction & execution time. Do you have a costume? Does it feature a lightning design?

1 hour ago, (PS4)teacup775 said:

The penta is just a castana style primary. It’s not that hard to avoid damage. Drop sticks void dash away, explode bombs.

First off, it's very ridiculous to expect someone to go through that hassle on a regular basis / present this as a sensible solution.

Second, that's not even really necessary / how Penta works,
you don't need Transference to safely distance yourself from the grenade,
it will only explode when manually triggered (barring Mods that might interfere with that),
and you need to be in your Warframe, holding your Penta, to trigger that Secondary Fire effect.

On 2018-11-03 at 6:31 AM, DiabolusUrsus said:

The only real problem with explosive weapons is that proportional to their performance, the risk of killing yourself is excessive.
Either make the weapons worth that risk, or mitigate the risk.

100% this.

I think I'd prefer the first option there, give Launchers massive damage & kersplosion zones (Stug makes me cry),
tune down their (usually already meh) Fire Rate / Mag Size / Reload / whatnot to compensate if necessary.

Or, have both, something like Ogris should be BFG UT Redeemer territory
while Kulstar, with its bomblets raining down all over the place, could stand to be much safer (for the user).