Can We Stop Catering to New Players?

[--END--Rikutatis]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh I wouldn't be so sure about that. Some peoples have the amazing ability to be disappointed by anything. 😁

 

Heck take a look at this one being disappointed in content that hasn't even been released yet:

LOL 😂 Can you imagine what that must be lik.... Wait a minute.... I guess you can. 😐

That's what DE_Steve said on the latest dev stream on twitch. His words, not mine. 

As for ppl always being disappointed, sure, some would still be ofc, many people don't think high level enemies are enough and want a complete rework of combat and mechanics or some sort of nerf across the board of all gear. But for the rest of people who are ok with high level enemies as a challenge, at least those features would have been more than enough. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

9 hours ago, nerfinator6 said:

If you want to have a challenging time, nerf yourself.

Don't *@##$ to DE about catering to new players if you can't even comprehend the possibility of a user-defined challenge.

Makes sense and I do it daily.

...The problem is though that you have a lot of min/maxxers and theme park players who don't get how sandboxes work imo.

Warframe, at its' core, is still mostly a sandbox even if they have added a themed ride or two over the years.

That's not to say DE can't stand to refine Warframe's core game, but if players were already used to it, I am not sure why they are complaining now.

 

Who knows? February isn't far off and there will be attrition then. We'll have to see how the game evolves itself in the coming months.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

41 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

That's what DE_Steve said on the latest dev stream on twitch. His words, not mine. 

As for ppl always being disappointed, sure, some would still be ofc, many people don't think high level enemies are enough and want a complete rework of combat and mechanics or some sort of nerf across the board of all gear. But for the rest of people who are ok with high level enemies as a challenge, at least those features would have been more than enough. 

Define many as a percentage. 

[FlusteredFerret]

55 minutes ago, --END--Rikutatis said:

The reason is that DE didn't go all the way. Arbitrations was a half measure, a compromise. No revive was a bold and interesting move, bravo on that. But then the starting level was nerfed before release, 60 is barely above Star Chart and lower than sortie/flood. Most ppl seem to agree 80-100 would have been more appropriate for "vet" content. On top of that enemy scaling is slow af, much slower than in regular missions. In Arbitrations enemies are lvl 280 when in regular endless they'd be 1.5k at that same point.

Starting lvl 80-100, normal enemy scaling and 5 min rotations, maybe a little more variety in the rewards, and I seriously doubt so many ppl would have been disappointed by it. 

Sounds like a reasonable suggestion.

I think if more people posted feedback like this in the relevant section, DE might take the hint and make some adjustments.

After all, they've said they will reverse the enemy nerfs for Orb Vallis...so you never know...

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, 180Degree said:

I bet 2k plat that you did not even played thru the whole star chart.
We can see that you just started playing this year and 1 year is not enough to make you a vet or endgame viable anyways....
Plz don't spread negativity with the quotes like the 1 mentioned here.
If you want to get blasted go do some survivals untill you reach 3 hours.

So much wrong in a single post.

One year is several times more than enough to be both a vet and endgame viable. You can likely get all the knowledge you need in six months or so from the day you start. At that point you've gained the knowledge needed to be a vet i.e someone with extensive first hand experience and knowledge within a field.

And your comment regarding 3 hour survivals just proves the point many are making that the game doesnt have any endgame content. A 3 hour survival is wasted time and resources because it really doesnt add to the challenge level of the game, it just adds a layer of bullet hell with no reward to go with it. What people are asking for is mostly challenging and rewarding content, which in turn makes it fun content.

It isnt exactly hard to do such content either because every single game out there (with Inquisitor Martyr being a unique piece of turd that doesnt fullfill this) has proper challenging endgame with proper rewards to go with it. Higher difficulty in D3 for instance gives you a better chance at drops aswell as the possibility to increase the rank of your gems, at a certain point it also introduces new gear qualities for you to hunt.

WF could easily turn the level increase grind from endless missions into a simple UI mechanic that lets you pick what level to start at along with scaling rewards from it. Plenty of other games does just that, give you the option to select the difficulty level. Drop tables in WF from both rotational rewards and mob drops could scale with this.

What I think the game needs is an elite star chart where every node starts at level 100 and is populated strongly by elite units along with dedicated endgame modes with proper rewards. Arbitrations and ESO simply doesnt fit the bill. WF needs progression at endgame, not just sidegrades and fluff. They could easily implement new items designed purely for use in new endgame modes. I mentioned it in this thread earlier, they could introduce something similar to the items obtained in fractals in GW2 along with a similar mode that just increases in difficulty the further you go. In order to push further you'll need those items to protect against new dangers. In addition to this they could add more useful arcanes or possibly reintroduce the arcane helmets for every frame, or simply just add a new frame specific arcane slot (so you can fashion frame as you wish).

Fractals is a great game mode since it combines interesting mechanics along with good trash fights and proper bosses. WF should really take a peek and draw some inspiration from it.

[DreisterDino]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb --END--Rikutatis:

The reason is that DE didn't go all the way. Arbitrations was a half measure, a compromise. No revive was a bold and interesting move, bravo on that. But then the starting level was nerfed before release, 60 is barely above Star Chart and lower than sortie/flood. Most ppl seem to agree 80-100 would have been more appropriate for "vet" content. On top of that enemy scaling is slow af, much slower than in regular missions. In Arbitrations enemies are lvl 280 when in regular endless they'd be 1.5k at that same point.

Starting lvl 80-100, normal enemy scaling and 5 min rotations, maybe a little more variety in the rewards, and I seriously doubt so many ppl would have been disappointed by it. 

Indeed, in case of arbitrations, the ideas are great, but they fear to go all in for some reason.

Maybe i am wrong, but i thought that in the first stream they have showed that gamemode, the starting lvl was 80/90?

Again, they have good ideas, but then they try to make it work for everybody and "tweak" stuff here and there.

What is the result? Both groups are unhappy with it:

- one group is complaining that drones are annoying, there should be revives in it and so on

- the other group is complaining about what you mentioned, slower scaling, lower starting level.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb 180Degree:

Problem of this amazing company is that they try to please everyone and i mean EVERYONE...
That's just never going to work out.

Indeed, its not going to work out if both new players and older players have to play the exact same content and both groups shall be pleased in the same place.

DE kinda acknowledged this fact in Onslaught where they intodruced 2 versions of it, normal and elite.

 

And they could, or rather should do the same with Bounties in Fortuna, Arbitrations, Starchart...that way it might be possible to please both groups.

[(PSN)GbHaseo]

6 hours ago, 180Degree said:

I bet 2k plat that you did not even played thru the whole star chart.
We can see that you just started playing this year and 1 year is not enough to make you a vet or endgame viable anyways....
Plz don't spread negativity with the quotes like the 1 mentioned here.
If you want to get blasted go do some survivals untill you reach 3 hours.

1 year is plenty of time of time to be a vet or endgame ready.

Endgame ready also isn't really that hard to achieve. After getting a good amp, a player can just buy whatever they need with plat. Go watch a few vids, read a couple guides, and a bit of practice, boom you're there.

[(XBOX)Boghadir]

Can we just accept the fact that DE needs to pause making new unreliable and unoriginal frames after Melee 3.0 and start fixing the backlog of outdated missions, bosses, and glitches left in a good portion of the game?  I can't count how many Lephantis sorties glitch out or just how boring Kryll is or how goddamn often missions keep crashing on host migration.

Or an idea, make augments useful again.

[Rakosta_Kai]

21 hours ago, (XB1)Turaglas said:

Can we just accept the fact that DE needs to pause making new unreliable and unoriginal frames after Melee 3.0 and start fixing the backlog of outdated missions, bosses, and glitches left in a good portion of the game? 

We can accept that you hold this opinion.

21 hours ago, (XB1)Turaglas said:

I can't count how many Lephantis sorties glitch out or just how boring Kryll is or how goddamn often missions keep crashing on host migration.

Everyone doesn't have these problems...

I've never experienced the first and the second only happens in scenarios where I join the mission and the host's connection is sub-par.

21 hours ago, (XB1)Turaglas said:

Or an idea, make augments useful again.

They are crazy useful now... The problem is that all augments aren't created equal.

This is consistent though given the fact that neither are any of the things they slot into which makes it hard to refer to as a "problem"

[LupisV0lk]

23 hours ago, (XB1)Turaglas said:

Can we just accept the fact that DE needs to pause making new unreliable and unoriginal frames after Melee 3.0 and start fixing the backlog of outdated missions, bosses, and glitches left in a good portion of the game?  I can't count how many Lephantis sorties glitch out or just how boring Kryll is or how goddamn often missions keep crashing on host migration.

Or an idea, make augments useful again.

That's all well and good but i'mma just going to get you to hold up and hear this. Ahem, DE did that this year and guess how the community repaid them, with two words CoNtEnT DrOuGhT.

DE touched up older content and the community REEEEE'd at them hard because they didn't keep spoon feeding them "content" though that word lost it's meaning when the CoNtEnT DrOuGhTers starting redefining what content was, it changed each day when their narrative kept getting torn asunder.

Edited December 1, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[--PV--Arc]

On 2018-11-30 at 12:57 PM, nerfinator6 said:

If you want to have a challenging time, nerf yourself.

Don't *@##$ to DE about catering to new players if you can't even comprehend the possibility of a user-defined challenge.

And for what reason did I max out those primed mods of mine if I wasn't going to use them? Lmao please. . "JUST STRIP YOURSELF". LOL

 

Where's my "user defined" option of facing high level enemies at my best ? Where is it ?

 

Edited December 2, 2018 by Arc2199

[-Temp0-]

В 01.12.2018 в 03:03, DreisterDino сказал:

Indeed, in case of arbitrations, the ideas are great, but they fear to go all in for some reason.

Maybe i am wrong, but i thought that in the first stream they have showed that gamemode, the starting lvl was 80/90?

But you were able to revive teammates.

And honestly I dont get why so many cry on the forums that Arbiitration is 'too easy' but when I actually get up and go do it  Ihave to play Oberon otherwise most scrubs teammates die about 10 excavators in the mission.

No revie proved to be more rough of a thing that lv 100+ content. When I used to play old Hieracon it wasnt too difficult to make it to 1500-2500 cryotic with randoms or recruited randoms because in worst case you were able to revive them, or recruited for one of the endless events with lv 1000 enemies in the end of it. Level is irrelveant as long as you can make mistakes.

Edited December 2, 2018 by -Temp0-

[--END--Rikutatis]

3 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

And honestly I dont get why so many cry on the forums that Arbiitration is 'too easy' but when I actually get up and go do it  Ihave to play Oberon otherwise most scrubs teammates die about 10 excavators in the mission.

I would guess the answer to your question is: 

a) people who take their Arbitration runs more seriously and want to go far, most likely won't be playing public matches. That's just begging for disaster. (host dying and leaving or randoms messing up the spawns)

b) people who want a challenge and are used to endurance runs probably gave up on Arbitrations by now, because the enemy scaling there is horrible and you get more challenge out of any regular endless mission in the Star Chart. 

[-Temp0-]

1 час назад, --END--Rikutatis сказал:

I would guess the answer to your question is: 

a) people who take their Arbitration runs more seriously and want to go far, most likely won't be playing public matches.

10 freaking excavators (especially considering that you can run 2 at once) isn't a "long match".

And no this bs doesnt work here. They die not because they want to extract. They dont try to extract either. They just die cause they suck.  

Цитата

b) people who want a challenge and are used to endurance runs probably gave up on Arbitrations by now, because the enemy scaling there is horrible and you get more challenge out of any regular endless mission in the Star Chart. 

Doesnt really have anything to do with arbitration itself.

I dont get why they play and play warframe at all. Other than the fact that of course its easy to abuse a mediocre ai spamming zenistars from volts shield squattting near the eximus specter, throwing ash's shuriken or sonar everything than play the actually challenging game because they'd have their a*** handed to them, so of course its easier o feel superior in warframe and keep playing. I have some news. Remove the specter, the volt, stop squatting in one corner and cc everything with zenistar and suddenly, you wont need lv 500 to feel something.

[Vox_Preliator]

7 hours ago, Arc2199 said:

And for what reason did I max out those primed mods of mine if I wasn't going to use them? Lmao please. . "JUST STRIP YOURSELF". LOL

Where's my "user defined" option of facing high level enemies at my best ? Where is it ?

You maxed them to make things easier.  If you want things to be easier, you use them.

If you want things to be harder, the math is simple.

That option doesn't exist right now, but you can simulate it yourself at any time by adjusting you mod setup.  And best of all, doing this in no way precludes an DE-defined endgame being added later and anyone saying otherwise is a fool.

[--PV--Arc]

17 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

You maxed them to make things easier.  If you want things to be easier, you use them.

If you want things to be harder, the math is simple.

That option doesn't exist right now, but you can simulate it yourself at any time by adjusting you mod setup.  And best of all, doing this in no way precludes an DE-defined endgame being added later and anyone saying otherwise is a fool.

I maxed them for facing higher level content. That's what's progression in games is all about.

 

When you first enter warframe and see that your stuff isn't good you max it to keep facing tougher stuff.

If that option doesn't exist right now then it should start existing asap. New players as we have seen after the launch of fortuna were catered to in 1-2 days. While endgame content with tougher enemies for daily players? HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE GAME FOR YEARS. And to get them naturally you literally have to WASTE hours of your time in an endless mission. You can't even spawn them in the Simulacrum !!! That's the failure of the game there. I shouldn't be expected to adjust myself and wait for who knows how many more years for DE to add in some challenging content.

 

Saying strip yourself of mods is a pathetic and cheap way to get there.

 

There should be missions apart from Sortie 3s that start from level 100 enemies with appropriate rewards to back up the challenge.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Arc2199

[Szilvia]

I personally think there should be a balance between new and older players. Need some content which pleases the older players but not screw the newest players and I am not a fan of the lock content in any way. The current system is locking players between time walls and level walls but a lot of players can play better than what their mastery indicate. DE cannot cater the older players because they burnt content so fast some of them faster some of them slower but they cannot focus only to one kind of playerbase. Keeping players to play is the hardest thing and a lot of new players leaving the game before they could get into it because the tutorials and lack of fun on early levels. Older players on other hand have almost everything so they are just repeat the contents what not really please or challenge them.

This is not a skill based game and it should not be on my opinion but some kind of harder content which only for the most geared most experienced players would be nice. The kingpin system is supposed to be like this with the option to make a random mission with your preferrance and act like a real mission but with the hardiness and rewards what your choose.

Currently this system is on the work in progress phase or shelved for later not sure about if they mentionned they cancelled but we are still waiting for it.

New players bring the money so it would be a fail to screw them because potentially they can spend a lot more for new items, acessories, miscleanous items. 

Both playerbase and in the middle are equal important.

[FlusteredFerret]

3 hours ago, Szilvia said:

I personally think there should be a balance between new and older players. Need some content which pleases the older players but not screw the newest players and I am not a fan of the lock content in any way. The current system is locking players between time walls and level walls but a lot of players can play better than what their mastery indicate. DE cannot cater the older players because they burnt content so fast some of them faster some of them slower but they cannot focus only to one kind of playerbase. Keeping players to play is the hardest thing and a lot of new players leaving the game before they could get into it because the tutorials and lack of fun on early levels. Older players on other hand have almost everything so they are just repeat the contents what not really please or challenge them.

This is not a skill based game and it should not be on my opinion but some kind of harder content which only for the most geared most experienced players would be nice. The kingpin system is supposed to be like this with the option to make a random mission with your preferrance and act like a real mission but with the hardiness and rewards what your choose.

Currently this system is on the work in progress phase or shelved for later not sure about if they mentionned they cancelled but we are still waiting for it.

New players bring the money so it would be a fail to screw them because potentially they can spend a lot more for new items, acessories, miscleanous items. 

Both playerbase and in the middle are equal important.

This is another reason I think any "endgame" mode needs to be separate from the main game - accessible at any time and gated by certain requirements, so you don't get newbies trying and failing hard and spoiling things for the veterans.

I think in order to have replay-ability & keep them interested, it has to be some sort of competitive, tournament style mode, with unique rewards, so they can show off how "1337" they are.

Meanwhile us lesser players can just mosey on through all the lore-based stuff at our own pace and not worry about having our progress blocked by skill or gear requirements.

 

[Vox_Preliator]

6 hours ago, Arc2199 said:

I maxed them for facing higher level content. That's what's progression in games is all about.

When you first enter warframe and see that your stuff isn't good you max it to keep facing tougher stuff.

If that option doesn't exist right now then it should start existing asap. New players as we have seen after the launch of fortuna were catered to in 1-2 days. While endgame content with tougher enemies for daily players? HAVE NOT BEEN IN THE GAME FOR YEARS. And to get them naturally you literally have to WASTE hours of your time in an endless mission. You can't even spawn them in the Simulacrum !!! That's the failure of the game there. I shouldn't be expected to adjust myself and wait for who knows how many more years for DE to add in some challenging content.

Saying strip yourself of mods is a pathetic and cheap way to get there.

There should be missions apart from Sortie 3s that start from level 100 enemies with appropriate rewards to back up the challenge.

And when you maxed them you moved your power level to a point beyond what the game offers.

Hod damn did I not just say that weakening yourself wouldn't replace a proper endgame?  While I disagree that inflated levels would give us the challenge we want and instead they would instead just exacerbate the existing problems to the point of annoyance instead of challenge, I never insinuated that we shouldn't have a proper endgame.

And here we see the exact same problem these threads always run into.  So, what would be "appropriate rewards?"  Let me guess, it would be something that makes you even stronger, which trivializes the missions from which you got them.  Or it would be credits, endo, kuva, and various other resources by the million, completely invalidating all other sources meaning the best way to do anything is this one source?  Sure fine whatever, let's say the rewards are appropriate somehow.  How do we make it challenging?  Higher levels are "the same, but MORE."  Unique mechanics are met with hate (See Ancients, Nullifiers, Nox, Bursas, Arbitration Drones...) so no matter how much they require the player to adapt and adjust on the fly and test their knowledge and ability a lot of people here wouldn't actually like a mode that relied on these.  Puzzles, well, we all know how not boring Raids were, what with the formulaic "Stand on the button while immobilizing the map" gameplay, and puzzles by their very nature aren't as difficult to solve a second time.

Yes, we should have a proper endgame.  No, nobody has suggested what a "proper" endgame would actually BE yet.

In the meantime, however, if you want a challenge now, the option exists.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Vox_Preliator

[Loza03]

On ‎2018‎-‎11‎-‎30 at 8:03 PM, DreisterDino said:

Indeed, its not going to work out if both new players and older players have to play the exact same content and both groups shall be pleased in the same place.

DE kinda acknowledged this fact in Onslaught where they intodruced 2 versions of it, normal and elite.

This place finally produced a diamond in the rough of people screaming at each other.

I'd like to draw attention to this as it's incredibly true. We're not just playing the same content, we're doing the same thing just with bigger numbers.

Level scaling isn't difficulty - it's padding. You die faster and enemies die slower. Both of these are unengaging. Flow, the state your brain enters when you're doing something legitimately difficult, the state that people are looking for in endgame requires that a challenge feel achievable, you have a clear objective and you get constant feedback. You getting oneshot removes feedback because you can't tell that what you're doing is wrong until you're dead, and your attacks feel like they're tickling enemies making you question whether what you're doing is right.

To add to this, most of the enemies we currently encounter are either completely one-dimensional fodder or provide oblique 'objectives' to overcome them. Like, what do you do to Bombards? Homing rockets are hard to dodge, melee attacks are discouraged by their radial knockdown and they're bullet sponges. Are they enemies that are supposed to prevent you from being too defensive, enemies that prevent you from charging in blindly or just a wall to distract you? They're all of them at once, and are thus cheesy design with no clear weakness to exploit, so the challenge of fighting them is how hard you can cheese them back, not you thinking of a tactic to beat them in the context of the fight.

I say that a new class of enemies to be injected into our existing attempts at endgame - specifically sorties and arbitrations - that are more engaging and more difficult to fight mechanically. It needn't be much for a lot of them - a trooper enemy that's pretty easy to take down and dodge, but that pathfinds around big clumps of enemies to attack you from the side if you're grounding yourself in front of a chokepoint or on an objective. Another idea could be something similar to the Kyta Raknoid that's beefy and hits hard, but is easily dodged by good positioning. Having that show up around other enemies necessitates you think about your positioning as you need to find a spot that's clear from the Kyta and also protected from regular enemies. These might not even need to replace our existing cannon fodder as long as they're frequent enough to keep players on their toes

These would make the existing 'Endgame' gamemodes more challenging without needing to inflate numbers as much.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I think people who prefer higher challenge should get their own world's.

So basically make specific content for "veterans". I use that term loosely as noone really knows what a vet actually is. Some people believe it's if you've played a long time. Others believe it's tied to Mr. I personally believe a true vet doesn't constantly whine and complain... However, many would disagree with that logic, most of which who are the core whiners. "Cough" "life of Rio" "cough"

Enemies scale with time. That in itself allows a balance between low end and high end gameplay. We have Mot for example. Odd, ods... Kuva survival etc. All these scale pretty well as the mission continues.

"Vets" aren't happy with anything. Fortuna hit.. within a week "vets" we're complaining there was nothing to do. Yet, if they were true vets... They would be simply happy with the grind. Squeezing every ounce of content out of fortuna... A real vet would. Not a self proclaimed vet that always needs something new to satellite their endless appetite.

Op wants to know why DE caters to new players? Because new players have literally years of content to get through...

Well years if they play like me. I was around for vanilla wow, vanilla flyff, team fortress in it conception and all the O.G. games that paved the way for everything we have now. I don't get tired of this game. I've been playing 4+ years and I literally login everyday... I have a wife, a job, and I still play 6+ hrs a day and never get bored. If I want challenge, it's easy to find. All you "vets" don't just want challenge... You want everything new all the time. Something which isn't possible for DE. They're what 250 or so staff... They cannot put out new content to sustain the "whiners"... Not at this point in the game.

So... They appeal to the newer players, casual players, and the loyalists first. I'm a loyalist. There is a few of is around. The angry vets however... They cannot appeal to them no matter how hard they try. So... Would I like a world/open world/mission environment that is more challenging? Yes... However, when we get that... The angry vets will almost immediately see a problem and whine yet again. At this point, I think DE needs to keep doin what their doing, and the community "whiners" need to grow up.

 

FYI I'm on mobile there is probably typos. Grammatical errors, and I use a form of short hand.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

20 pages of arguing, misinformation, and thinly veiled insults.  There are definitely future politicians in this forum.

[DreisterDino]

Am 27.11.2018 um 02:51 schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

Logic?  In this thread?

 

Am 24.11.2018 um 07:47 schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

It's been a dry week. 

Besides, with the copious amount of baiting some people just can't help themselves 

 

Am 21.11.2018 um 20:12 schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

The fact that this thread is 12 pages long on this subject with the sheer volume of salt and misinformation flying around is fascinating 

 

Am 19.11.2018 um 21:25 schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

The sodium levels are approaching critical mass in this thread

 

Am 19.11.2018 um 21:51 schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

I will leave a like for any post with a Conan reference

 and finally:

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XB1)Thy Divinity:

20 pages of arguing, misinformation, and thinly veiled insults.  There are definitely future politicians in this forum.

 

 

Seriously, i usually try to simply ignore posts like this, but because you keep posting stuff like this every 2 or 3 pages i like to respond:

 

1st: You continually make posts that say "look everybody is insulting each other and everyone is salty". i didnt check the whole topic again but i checked the last 3 pages again between your 2 latest posts, and i didnt see anyone insulting another person, and no one is really salty either. People are just posting their opinions, and people argue about stuff, but even the people who disagree are in 90% of the cases not insulting each other. And this goes for the whole thread, which i followed the whole time.

 

2nd: You might think you are clever now by countering point 1 with the "argument" - "i said veiled insults"....again, 90% of the people discussing here are not even using this kind of insult. But you know whats funny? You use veiled insults if you post stuff like "logic, in this thread?" which basically tries to make us all look stupid, salty and irrational.

 

3rd: you complain about the lenght of this topic, while making posts that add absolutly NOTHING to the discussion, on any of both sides.

 

So, what are you actually doing here? What is your agenda? Do you have any? Or do you simply dont like people talking about challenge? I see a few possibilites:

 

1st: You are only fishing for some cheap likes, whatever the reason might be for that

2nd: You are simply trolling and try to enrage people

3rd: You want to get this thread closed although there is no real reason for that yet. To achieve that, you try to make it look like everyone is just insulting and screaming at each other, while that is not the case at all.

4th: You fear any kind of challenging content and therefore try as hard as you can to shut everybody up who even dares to use that word.

5th: You try to produce counter-reactions that are on the same level as your posts. You hope that we get angry and feel attacked and start to attack you back using insults or simply starting to post spammy stuff thats not helping the discussion at all so that you can finally say "see, i was right, lets close this thread". But since this doesnt happen at all, you try again and again and again.

 

So that has been it with my little "Divinity Exposed" 😀

Seriously, if you guys have something to add to the discussion, do it. But if you dont have anything, and on top of it are annoyed by the discussion, why are you even clicking on it again and again and also feed it and keep it alive with posts like the quoted ones? You ask for logic divinity, where is the logic here? 😛

 

I think ill go back to ignoring your posts now, but i really wanted to say something now. You wanted a reaction, have fun with this one^^

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 hour ago, DreisterDino said:

 

 

 

 

 and finally:

 

 

 

Seriously, i usually try to simply ignore posts like this, but because you keep posting stuff like this every 2 or 3 pages i like to respond:

 

1st: You continually make posts that say "look everybody is insulting each other and everyone is salty". i didnt check the whole topic again but i checked the last 3 pages again between your 2 latest posts, and i didnt see anyone insulting another person, and no one is really salty either. People are just posting their opinions, and people argue about stuff, but even the people who disagree are in 90% of the cases not insulting each other. And this goes for the whole thread, which i followed the whole time.

 

2nd: You might think you are clever now by countering point 1 with the "argument" - "i said veiled insults"....again, 90% of the people discussing here are not even using this kind of insult. But you know whats funny? You use veiled insults if you post stuff like "logic, in this thread?" which basically tries to make us all look stupid, salty and irrational.

 

3rd: you complain about the lenght of this topic, while making posts that add absolutly NOTHING to the discussion, on any of both sides.

 

So, what are you actually doing here? What is your agenda? Do you have any? Or do you simply dont like people talking about challenge? I see a few possibilites:

 

1st: You are only fishing for some cheap likes, whatever the reason might be for that

2nd: You are simply trolling and try to enrage people

3rd: You want to get this thread closed although there is no real reason for that yet. To achieve that, you try to make it look like everyone is just insulting and screaming at each other, while that is not the case at all.

4th: You fear any kind of challenging content and therefore try as hard as you can to shut everybody up who even dares to use that word.

5th: You try to produce counter-reactions that are on the same level as your posts. You hope that we get angry and feel attacked and start to attack you back using insults or simply starting to post spammy stuff thats not helping the discussion at all so that you can finally say "see, i was right, lets close this thread". But since this doesnt happen at all, you try again and again and again.

 

So that has been it with my little "Divinity Exposed" 😀

Seriously, if you guys have something to add to the discussion, do it. But if you dont have anything, and on top of it are annoyed by the discussion, why are you even clicking on it again and again and also feed it and keep it alive with posts like the quoted ones? You ask for logic divinity, where is the logic here? 😛

 

I think ill go back to ignoring your posts now, but i really wanted to say something now. You wanted a reaction, have fun with this one^^

Exposed in a forum.  This bait is almost applause worthy, especially since you devoted all this energy to "expose" me

You are definitely in the right thread 

[--PV--Arc]

19 hours ago, Vox_Preliator said:

And when you maxed them you moved your power level to a point beyond what the game offers.

Hod damn did I not just say that weakening yourself wouldn't replace a proper endgame?  While I disagree that inflated levels would give us the challenge we want and instead they would instead just exacerbate the existing problems to the point of annoyance instead of challenge, I never insinuated that we shouldn't have a proper endgame. 

And here we see the exact same problem these threads always run into.  So, what would be "appropriate rewards?"  Let me guess, it would be something that makes you even stronger, which trivializes the missions from which you got them.  Or it would be credits, endo, kuva, and various other resources by the million, completely invalidating all other sources meaning the best way to do anything is this one source?  Sure fine whatever, let's say the rewards are appropriate somehow.  How do we make it challenging?  Higher levels are "the same, but MORE."  Unique mechanics are met with hate (See Ancients, Nullifiers, Nox, Bursas, Arbitration Drones...) so no matter how much they require the player to adapt and adjust on the fly and test their knowledge and ability a lot of people here wouldn't actually like a mode that relied on these.  Puzzles, well, we all know how not boring Raids were, what with the formulaic "Stand on the button while immobilizing the map" gameplay, and puzzles by their very nature aren't as difficult to solve a second time.

Yes, we should have a proper endgame.  No, nobody has suggested what a "proper" endgame would actually BE yet.

In the meantime, however, if you want a challenge now, the option exists.

I should not be able able to move my power beyond of what the game offers yet I still have and that's without even getting into proper umbral builds.

 

WE NEED TO BE CATERED TO. Pre-nerf fortuna was just that. The recent change was a step into the right direction but the damage is still far too low for bounties. Game modes like raids were a nice changed because the difficulty they brought was of teamwork minus the time gated cease pool of toxicity that is eidolon fights.

And either that should be proper endgame or actually adding diverse enemies starting directly from the higher levels which can only be defeated by having a diverse arsenal. They should not just scale. They should have various attacks and things you have to look out for and counter. We have that in a small degree right now. There are enemy types yes but their difficulty comes from the scaling , not their attacks. This combined with game modes that need teamwork like raids without the time gated nature like eidolon fights is what true endgame should be.

THERE. I HAVE SUGGESTED WHAT PROPER ENDGAME SHOULD BE.

This is not the first time I've suggested this nor am I the first who have introduced new ideas. There have been plenty more who have suggested similar things or completely different ones. Don't think of us as idiots. There are 20 pages to this thread. Have you even read them all?

 

And no I don't want that cheap option of stripping myself just to face a challenge. I am not okay with that nor is it acceptable.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Arc2199