Exodia Contagion, Self damage?

[OdaNobuneko]

I'd like to see what everyone thinks on the self damaging sewersliding Exodia Contagion

Personally, I think that the self damage doesn't really have a place on the arcane, I don't think it's OP enough to warrant such a drawback, even after taking into account the soft synergy with Condition Overload. Furthermore, IMO, the Exodia mods are kinda like fun gimmicks for zaws, and the concept of self damage just makes it a whole lot less fun. Imagine if your Pax Seeker homed into to yourself as well, it just wouldn't be the most fun thing to use.

I'd love to hear what y'all have ta say about this though!

[TARINunit9]

Yeah, when i think about how much this fanbase loathes self-damage, I can't really blame them. Using the Tonkor or Penta is a source of constant terror.

Tbh I am just glad they removed the glitch where using a ground slam attack would cause you to spawn a Contagion projectile at your feet, causing much bad times all around

[chainchompguy3]

The self-damage on my zaw hammer is enough to 100%-to-0 one-shot my Inaros when it crits. It's completely turned me off from using the arcane.

 

I found a trick that works well enough for me, though.

I use it primarily for the projectile, not the explosion. Well, as it turns out, the explosion doesn't have any physical damage, it's all elemental.

Thus, I use nothing but physical damage mods and a non-primed pressure-point, and thus don't increase the self-damage much beyond something like 300. It still does it's job well enough, and if I play a tankier frame, then I have absolutely no worries about the self-damage.

 

That is, until I can get a Sigma-Octantis Riven re-roll that is good for buffing it's throw attack. Once I have that, I can leave Exodia Contagion behind for good.

 

 

As for "Should it be a thing / is it balanced", I still think it can get a bit powerful at times, I think it probably should have some sort of drawback. If not self-damage, something else.

[Infirito]

Contagion deals a ton more damage than Seeker, though, also what would be the point of other guns if you could just clear out rooms with explosives without any drawbacks to them? Why use a single target rifle when you can just blow the whole thing up? Self damage is there to prevent people from running around shooting at their feet.

[Voltage]

40 minutes ago, Infirito said:

Contagion deals a ton more damage than Seeker, though, also what would be the point of other guns if you could just clear out rooms with explosives without any drawbacks to them? Why use a single target rifle when you can just blow the whole thing up? Self damage is there to prevent people from running around shooting at their feet.

Self Damage is a dated mechanic that only discourages players from using explosive weapons. Who uses Tonkor, Penta, Angstrum, and more? Plenty of gear items can deal massive amounts of damage. Add to that the low average enemy level. The stats of an item should dictate its power, not clunky mechanics such as the ability to kill yourself.

[Althaline]

1 hour ago, Infirito said:

also what would be the point of other guns if you could just clear out rooms with explosives without any drawbacks to them?

Ignis and Plasmor say hello.

[taiiat]

comparing it to Pax Seeker is kinda silly. the Projectile you're referencing is specifically supposed to be used at far out of Melee Ranges anyways - you have no reason to be shooting it right in front of you.

i don't think it's really very important which ever way it is (and can just stay as is if which side of the fence doesn't really matter) because you aren't encouraged to hit Enemies right next to you with it either way.

[chainchompguy3]

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

comparing it to Pax Seeker is kinda silly. the Projectile you're referencing is specifically supposed to be used at far out of Melee Ranges anyways - you have no reason to be shooting it right in front of you.

i don't think it's really very important which ever way it is (and can just stay as is if which side of the fence doesn't really matter) because you aren't encouraged to hit Enemies right next to you with it either way.

Eh...I have a tiny bit of beef with that.

In that, it is my personal preference to use it to get reliable melee headshots.

Seeing as how there aren't terribly many other melees with that degree of precision, and I find it perfectly reasonable that Some players would want to use it in close range.

Players are also encouraged to hit enemies right next to them, in that melee-enemies get conveniently grouped up at the player's location, and AOE is most effective at clearing groups.

 

I do agree though that it's apparent-intended gameplay use it pretty obviously for longer ranges. Heck, leveling it up increases damage ONLY at far range.

 

I'd just like to clarify that just because it's designed for ranged doesn't mean it's entirely unreasonable to want to use it in close combat.

Especially when the way they designed it to be long-range wasn't to make it ineffective in close combat, or to make it's way-of-functioning inconvenient for that situation, but instead to just add an already hated punishment-mechanic to it.

 

Whatever works, though.

I got what I wanted out of it, It's currently balanced enough to not be hyper-meta.

it could be better, but what can't?

It's good enough.

[RX-3DR]

Only if you change it to a non-explosive attack and just make it like Exalted Blade. In that case, it should just be a new Arcane rather than messing with Contagion, removing self-damage and getting it nerfed after when everyone just double taps jump and melee as they travel around the rooms.

Contagion is way too easily abusable. Even in its current state, it is already incredibly strong because you can fire it rapidly and just slam crowds of enemies with Viral + other status effects. Even without the damage multiplier, it can do a strong amount of damage that it would completely replace the value of all explosive weapons.

[xLUONG]

Would personally like to see it gone, but I understand why it's there.
I often use melee to get some momentum in my bulletjumps, so it's not worth the annoyance for me.

[Makunogo]

if u throw an explosion at yourself at point blank range. you will probably explode. i see no issue. try aiming away from yourself. that usually helps. the arcane encourages you to aim the projectile away from you anyway would be best to take the hint. 😛

can't really compare it to pax seeker. thats a bit of a stretch there in my opinion.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Makunogo

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to be fair, it's just a case of being careful. it's pretty powerful even after the nerf, and you can sort of use it like the Tomahawk/Throwing knife from older CoD games: throw it way up in the air and hope it hits something, except you have a much better chance of hitting something since it's an AoE effect. great fun to use against faraway groups of enemies on the plains, and satisfying when it lands right in the middle of them all. takes a little practice, but totally worth it IMO.

[OvisCaedo]

11 hours ago, Infirito said:

Contagion deals a ton more damage than Seeker, though, also what would be the point of other guns if you could just clear out rooms with explosives without any drawbacks to them? Why use a single target rifle when you can just blow the whole thing up? Self damage is there to prevent people from running around shooting at their feet.

sorry i can't hear you over the sounds of the fifteen staticor shots exploding at my feet harmlessly every second

[Kaotyke]

57 minutes ago, OvisCaedo said:

sorry i can't hear you over the sounds of the fifteen staticor shots exploding at my feet harmlessly every second

[ZeroX4]

And think about it

Why not make it so you trow projectile only while channeling?
 

this way you would shoot it only when you really want it and not when you just doing ur stuff

[xcenic]

I totally regret having manufactured my arcane exodia. The constant fear of dying for the same damage is something that does not let me enjoy my weapon. Mostly the time I end up using the arcane is because I jump and attack on impulse and end up dying.
I really regret it.

[OdaNobuneko]

8 hours ago, Makunogo said:

if u throw an explosion at yourself at point blank range. you will probably explode. i see no issue. try aiming away from yourself. that usually helps. the arcane encourages you to aim the projectile away from you anyway would be best to take the hint. 😛

can't really compare it to pax seeker. thats a bit of a stretch there in my opinion.

For me at least, while it's fine on plains or fortuna, when you're jumping around in the small rooms of the corridor shooter that is warframe, I usually find that there isn't enough room to get a good explosion off, and I end up killing myself anyway when I accidentally shoot it at a wall.

Of course, that's all user error on my part, and I could definitely learn to use it better, but it'd be nice if accidentally trgigering it while tryna use one of the primary travel tools in the game (bullet jumping) less punishing.

[Ghogiel]

If there was a different way of triggering it so you had more control of when and where you put it, self dmg might not be too terrible. The problem is the drawbacks to using it, ie you cant ground slam, or if you do you die, and the fact any self dmg attack had inherent risk in general in such a fast paced game, it's not really worth using imo. I'd rather just be able to ground slam and parkour and fast meleeing without problems over a ranged attack (which isn't going to be doing anything my gun cant do, or my whips still having enough range anyway, or the fact there are already ranged melees that aren't as much of a hazzard.)

Edited December 6, 2018 by Ghogiel