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Redeemer Prime - Let Down


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For a Primed Weapon - This seems a bit lack luster.

  • For gunblade shots, before 100% status chance, the listed status chance is the base chance per shot that at least one pellet will proc a status; the actual base status chance per pellet is ~3.23%, -- Condition Overload out
  • Shots have 0% critical chance. -- Bloodrush out

I should not need an Arcane or Kavat to make a Weapon good.

This sucks!

Looks like fun Police got a hold of this....

Make it better please.

 

UPDATE

Since starting this thread - I have made it work using Wukong and Arcane Avenger. - Now it a hybrid CC and SC building up with combo counter and bloodrush - Arcane Avenger releases bloodrush pent up crit chance.+ extra damage from Condition Overload  - Its beautiful ! 

I cant believable so many commented on this thread. Thanks!

Edited by 5nak3Doctor
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:facepalm:

 

   It can reach 100 sc with all 4 mods and DC, along with dmg, attack speed and CO, it shreds anything even in high lvls. You could also build it for actual melee with the decent cc 

 

  It also seems like shots done while stealthed do deal crits, and also head shots...though this could be a bug 

 

 

  It needs no buff, build/use it right. If you don’t like it then you don’t have a case here 

 

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Wait, what do you mean shots cant crit? It states on wiki that it has 16% crit chance like the normal mod as well.

And the mechanic that status chance is listed per shot not per pellet has been a thing for a while now. However, once you reach 100% status chance - for some reasons it becomes per pellet. So better put all three 60/60 and maybe that one with combo meter, will help too.

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Explain to me why a weapon with 16% crit chance is not critting, or not allowed to crit on it's shotgun blast? It is it's main selling point, not the gillette razors glued to the side of the barrels. This is pretty much the only "dis can't crit captain" exception on a weapon in the game that I can think of, and essentially makes any crit mod or crit riven for it a huge noob trap or an outright scam. If it's a bug - fix it. If it's intended - then I have no idea what the hell the logic behind it is or what you were thinking.

Edited by Ronin_Blackjack
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It can hit 100% status chance. Which on a shot gun is typically amazingly strong if it gets it before multishot. 

I once met a mr 24 guy who thought slash was only good on critical weapons (I blame hunters munitions and a few YouTubers who don't understand math for ruining how people think of status) when usually its the status chance shotguns that rule. Kohm, strun wraith, and how can anyone forget the monster that is Tigris p? Imagine if they gave the Tigris p the crit stats of a vaykor hek. 

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19 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

  It also seems like shots done while stealthed do deal crits, and also head shots...though this could be a bug 

16 hours ago, (PS4)negativ21 said:

I believe this is just the stealth multiplier. Redeemer gets x5 damage stealth multiplier I think.

Yep, it's the stealth bonus at work, not a true critical hit. Landing a stealthed hit with any melee weapon will add +700% final damage (stacking additively with crit multipliers, if any) and show up as a yellow number (unless an orange/red crit "overwrites" it). 

 

This is a bit unrelated to the thread, but does anyone know if stealthed melee attacks get an extra multiplier on headshots, the same way as critical hits do? (e.g. a critical headshot on a common Grineer will deal 4x damage instead of the usual 2x, even after the crit damage itself is taken into account.) I've never tested it out, but if it works, then Loki/Ash/Octavia/etc just became the most hilariously powerful shotgun users in the game.

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Il y a 19 heures, Karu-QW a dit :

If it has kill potential like this with a riven, then it doesn't need any buffs.

Not much relevant sadly, without that riven you'll never kill anything nowhere as easily. Huge status buff makes every pellet proc and 230% damage make this procs deal huge damages. Without that riven nothing will proc, and if it does it'll deal way less damages.

Plus the riven argument is pointless, we all know that rivens already make a lot of weapons overpowered.

Only two things matter here, make the charged shot critical hit and rework how pellets work in the game. The 100% status mechanics is dated and quite broken in my opinion.

Edited by 000l000
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Il y a 9 heures, Ronin_Blackjack a dit :

Explain to me why a weapon with 16% crit chance is not critting, or not allowed to crit on it's shotgun blast? It is it's main selling point, not the gillette razors glued to the side of the barrels. This is pretty much the only "dis can't crit captain" exception on a weapon in the game that I can think of, and essentially makes any crit mod or crit riven for it a huge noob trap or an outright scam. If it's a bug - fix it. If it's intended - then I have no idea what the hell the logic behind it is or what you were thinking.

Many weapons already work with two builds/alternate fire, one status and one critical. Since the Redeemer's charge shot already deals a lot of damages maybe the didn't want to make it overpowered so they make it status only. I don't see what's not logical here, it's only how this weapons are designed - No one is forced to use the Redeemer's charge shot, you can also go and slash everything in melee.

They could have lowered the critical hit chance instead of nullifying it though, 0% is a bit harsh. As showed in the video above you can't buff the charged shot critical without reworking how status works with shotgun pellets - If not we'll have quite a broken weapon.

 

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Shot combos on the Redeemer Prime shred groups of lv 160 Bombards like they're made out of paper, and this is before stacking up ridiculous damage by building up your melee combo or putting on any buffs. This weapon is one of the best melee weapons in the game right now and if you think it's "lackluster" it's probably because you aren't using it properly. 

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On 2018-12-24 at 8:33 AM, 5nak3Doctor said:

For a Primed Weapon - This seems a bit lack luster.

  • For gunblade shots, before 100% status chance, the listed status chance is the base chance per shot that at least one pellet will proc a status; the actual base status chance per pellet is ~3.23%, -- Condition Overload out
  • Shots have 0% critical chance. -- Bloodrush out

I should not need an Arcane or Kavat to make a Weapon good.

This sucks!

Looks like fun Police got a hold of this....

Make it better please.

Someone obviously has no idea about what they're talking about :]

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20 hours ago, 000l000 said:

Not much relevant sadly, without that riven you'll never kill anything nowhere as easily. Huge status buff makes every pellet proc and 230% damage make this procs deal huge damages. Without that riven nothing will proc, and if it does it'll deal way less damages.

Plus the riven argument is pointless, we all know that rivens already make a lot of weapons overpowered.

Only two things matter here, make the charged shot critical hit and rework how pellets work in the game. The 100% status mechanics is dated and quite broken in my opinion.

Start around 7:10 mark. The thing is a monster even without a riven. 

Want more proof? Check this out against level 160 corrupted.

Doesn't need a riven to be good. It just needs a good build. That youtuber with the riven isn't known for having the best builds. Annoying, distant observer, and brozime  (for the most part) have solid builds all the time. 

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Il y a 3 heures, m0b1us1 a dit :

Start around 7:10 mark. The thing is a monster even without a riven. 

Want more proof? Check this out against level 160 corrupted

Doesn't need a riven to be good. It just needs a good build. That youtuber with the riven isn't known for having the best builds. Annoying, distant observer, and brozime  (for the most part) have solid builds all the time. 

No offense but i never said this weapon was bad without a riven or anything, pretty much the opposite in fact - hence my comment about the weapon not dealing critical damages. It's way better with a riven though, just like most status shotguns especially since it also has high disposition.

Edited by 000l000
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3 hours ago, 000l000 said:

No offense but i never said this weapon was bad without a riven or anything, pretty much the opposite in fact - hence my comment about the weapon not dealing critical damages. It's way better with a riven though, just like most status shotguns especially since it also has high disposition.

"Without that riven, you will never kill anything nowhere as easily"

You pretty much said this weapon was bad without a riven. And you can't reach 170 in the simulacrum yet. So... at what point does the riven outweigh just a normal build? 

The problem is "theory" vs "practice". If I had a weapon that could one shot level 300s, but I never reached that level, then what's the point? If a normal build will let you one shot whatever you play against, then what value is a riven? You can't get any better than one shotting an enemy. 

You also wanted the charged shot to critical hit... this thing, without a riven, can already one shot level 160 corrupted. You want it to crit on top of that? There is no reason for that.

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bullet dance + ppp + condition overload + 4 dual stats (radiation + viral/gas +magnetic) + drifting contact + shattering impact 

done, heres your pellet shotgun with 100% status that can abuse co while cutting hp in half and strip armor w shattering impact pluscombo counter makes your damage scale hard as hell 

 

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Le 26/12/2018 à 14:57, m0b1us1 a dit :

"Without that riven, you will never kill anything nowhere as easily"

You pretty much said this weapon was bad without a riven. And you can't reach 170 in the simulacrum yet. So... at what point does the riven outweigh just a normal build? 

The problem is "theory" vs "practice". If I had a weapon that could one shot level 300s, but I never reached that level, then what's the point? If a normal build will let you one shot whatever you play against, then what value is a riven? You can't get any better than one shotting an enemy. 

You also wanted the charged shot to critical hit... this thing, without a riven, can already one shot level 160 corrupted. You want it to crit on top of that? There is no reason for that.

So you can't read. Or you can only understand what you want to, so please stop commenting me you'll save me time.

Edited by 000l000
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6 hours ago, 000l000 said:

So you can't read. Or you can only understand what you want to, so please stop commenting me you'll save me time.

No quite the contrary. It seems you are trying to double back to avoid your own words and admit it was rather silly to say that kind of damage was only possible with a riven. I never said I disagreed with you about the riven, I simply asked you at what point does the riven outperform a normal, 0 forma build? Then I noted that whatever level that would occur, the gross majority of people would never see it. All that was to put into question and stress test the value of your own statement that without a riven, it would NEVER perform as well. So that implies you thought that it was impossible to see the same level of performance, to which I provided a video of someone without a riven taking down a higher level enemy.

You should spend some more time thinking things through before speaking. So... at what point does that weapon with a riven like that outperform a no riven build?

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I’d like to add that Gas and Blast Status count as two status ailments proc’ing at the same time. If you use a frame that strips armor or are using the Redeemer Prime’s gunblade shots on an unarmored target, Condition Overload damage increase will skyrocket.

Without crit on the gunblade shots, the Redeemer Prime is a monster. Slightly clunky if you’re not using Attack Speed mods for charged shots or are using Bullet Dance’s normal combo and spray&praying all over the place, but a monster nonetheless.

It does crit if you use outside sources to forcibly add crit, so gunblade shots are still crit-viable with a BloodRush build. Still, that’s a very niche build and going for a Condition Overload build is far more reliable and still very effective.

Edited by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
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Amazing at applying statuses, absolutely comical amounts of damage (to the point that it's a better shotgun than a lot of primary shotguns), some ridiculous combos. I don't know why people are so fixated on critting.

Really the biggest problem with the weapon is how obnoxious it is to farm Bullet Dance.

Edited by Elementalos
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14 minutes ago, Elementalos said:

Amazing at applying statuses, absolutely comical amounts of damage (to the point that it's a better shotgun than a lot of primary shotguns), some ridiculous combos. I don't know why people are so fixated on critting.

Really the biggest problem with the weapon is how obnoxious it is to farm Bullet Dance.

Tell me about it. Farming all weekend before Christmas just to get it. Lucky it dropped but Sabotage is so inconvenient and PoE Incursions are just so annoying (I really hope whenever they get around to adjusting PoE they remove incursions altogether).

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On 2018-12-24 at 2:41 PM, GinKenshin said:

:facepalm:

 

   It can reach 100 sc with all 4 mods and DC, along with dmg, attack speed and CO, it shreds anything even in high lvls. You could also build it for actual melee with the decent cc 

 

  It also seems like shots done while stealthed do deal crits, and also head shots...though this could be a bug 

 

 

  It needs no buff, build/use it right. If you don’t like it then you don’t have a case here 

 

The yellow damage you see while stealth is stealth damage not crit.

Stop kissing DE ass and think about it. A prime version of a GUN-Blade that enhances the normal's critical capabilities, but those enhanced capabilities are not usable when used as a GUN.  GUN - BLADE

If I want to melee enemies I have tons of other weapons to choose from. 

In other words, I don't even need Redeemer Prime because I only shoot it and the prime version has the same shot damage as the normal one.

So good job DE for working for nothing.

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