When raids come back, what rewards should they have?

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Since has now confirmed they are working on bring raids back I've been thinking. What should they give as rewards?

Should they have all new arcane set to grind out or something new to grab from them or a something similar to the sortie drop table? What do you hope they reward?

I would like to a few new arcanes, large bundle of kuva and other resources, maybe a unique vandal/wraith weapon for each raid, and maybe something new that's exclusive to the raids.

Edited January 9, 2019 by (XB1)The Neko Otaku

[-Sentient-]

Just a question, I wasn't here when raids existed

What where they about? just kill enemies and done? defend and objective?
 

or was it more complex and challenging.

Because I can't believe being with 8 players is challenging.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Justo ahora, -Sentient- dijo:

Just a question, I wasn't here when raids existed

What where they about? just kill enemies and done? defend and objective?
 

or was it more complex and challenging.

Because I can't believe being with 8 players is challenging.

There are several videos on youtube, you might even find the tutorial, or even better, meme runs

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Rugs.  Primed rugs.  Prisma rugs.  More rugs!

Edited January 9, 2019 by (XB1)Thy Divinity

[NovusNova]

4 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Just a question, I wasn't here when raids existed

What where they about? just kill enemies and done? defend and objective?

Information on the old "raids", also known as Trials, can be found here:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Law_of_Retribution (Also had a nightmare version)

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/The_Jordas_Verdict

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

1 minute ago, -Sentient- said:

Just a question, I wasn't here when raids existed

What where they about? just kill enemies and done? defend and objective?
 

or was it more complex and challenging.

Because I can't believe being with 8 players is challenging.

They were big 3 mega missions on unique tile sets and objectives.

Law of retribution had you chasing after vay hek for revenge after destroying the relays in eyes of blight and the The jordas verdict had you trying to stop another jordas golem from being created. They were fun

[-Sentient-]

Just now, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

They were big 3 mega missions on unique tile sets and objectives.

Law of retribution had you chasing after vay hek for revenge after destroying the relays in eyes of blight and the The jordas verdict had you trying to stop another jordas golem from being created. They were fun

But where they challenging? hard? 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, -Sentient- said:

But where they challenging? hard? 

for the first few times yeah, but like all things in life, once you do something enough it's second nature.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Just now, -Sentient- said:

But where they challenging? hard? 

Regular law was when everyone was starting out but became easy, the night version required attention with everthing at a higher level,  nullifer drones covering the map and a instant fail state on stage to that will consume your raid key.  The jordas raid was difficult cause it was very buggy, 50% of was in archwing which was bad for people who didn't forma their archwings, and last stage had these puzzles that had to do in a confusing layout that was hard to navigate.

[Legion-Shields]

I would like a way to be able to get arcanes without having to use my Operator, or trade chat.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Legion-Shields

[-Sentient-]

if the Raids become easy after cheesing all,pretty sure the arcanes prices will drop a lot

 

[EDM774]

7 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

if the Raids become easy after cheesing all,pretty sure the arcanes prices will drop a lot

 

That's what people said when they introduced arcanes in the eidolon drop tables cuz they were and still are a lot easier than Raids were AND you can solo tricap the eidolons, but raids required a bare minimum of 4 players with team coordination to solve the puzzles.

[Wildrider123]

Raids were only difficult at first, afterwards they became braindead easy with CC spam. Now our CC and individual power is even stronger than before with Vauban the raid killer being considered "weak." So I can only imagine how trivial they will be now with the additional sustain we have on our frames now. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Would appreciate it if Raids dropped Raid-specific gear that meant something. Like a special weapon or Sentinel that offered special perks, or required a certain amount of clearances to unlock new features.

Sure it’ll gate players who don’t know or can’t do Raids, but clearing a raid has to mean something. Not just an arbitrary cheese grind like it was before when farming for Arcanes daily was an autonomous hobby set at a specified time every day.

Edited January 10, 2019 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
spelling error

[MJ12]

 

13 minutes ago, Wildrider123 said:

Raids were only difficult at first, afterwards they became braindead easy with CC spam. Now our CC and individual power is even stronger than before with Vauban the raid killer being considered "weak." So I can only imagine how trivial they will be now with the additional sustain we have on our frames now. 

Vauban is considered weak not because he doesn't have powerful CC in the current state of the game but because all he does is CC. There's a massive shift in design principle from Early Warframe, where most Warframes were one-trick ponies who often had only a handful of really good powers which made the Warframe entirely, and Current Warframe, where good Warframes are versatile and capable of handling most content because they have a variety of possible uses and builds with multiple useful powers. Vauban is one of the pinnacles of early Warframe design, in that he does one job really really well and does so largely entirely because of a handful of powers. That's why people consider him weak-because he has 2.5 largely useless powers.

Also, raids became "braindead easy" largely because they aren't actually challenging content in either the twitch-reflexes or cerebral problem-solving departments. They're built upon rote memorization of puzzle mechanics, often with limited explanation of what said puzzle mechanics are, and thus as soon as you memorize what you need to do they become pretty trivial.

Edited January 9, 2019 by MJ12

[Wildrider123]

1 minute ago, MJ12 said:

 

Vauban is considered weak not because he doesn't have powerful CC in the current state of the game but because all he does is CC. There's a massive shift in design principle from Early Warframe, where most Warframes were one-trick ponies who often had only a handful of really good powers which made the Warframe entirely, and Current Warframe, where good Warframes are versatile and capable of handling most content because they have a variety of possible uses and builds. Vauban is probably the pinnacle of early Warframe design, in that he does one job really really well and does so largely entirely because of a handful of powers. That's why people consider him weak-because he has 2.5 largely useless powers.

Also, raids became "braindead easy" largely because they aren't actually challenging content in either the twitch-reflexes or cerebral problem-solving departments. They're built upon rote memorization of puzzle mechanics, often with limited explanation of what said puzzle mechanics are, and thus as soon as you memorize what you need to do they become pretty trivial.

You basically hit the nail on the head in what is wrong with raids and Vauban both. 

[MPonder]

Definitily raid only weapons, and powerful ones, almost BiS (best in slot). Most weapons are either from market, dojo or relics which is just a grind.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I loved my dear raids and was upset when they were taken out but I hope that DE can make them the hardest damn thing to do in the game because they were so easy back then. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by (XB1)A Excal Umbra

[-Sentient-]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)A Excal Umbra said:

I loved my dear raids and was upset when they were taken out but I hope that DE better make them the hardest damn thing to do in the game because they were so easy back then. 

Hey Umbra,how does it feel to be an Excal prime reskineed with minor changes?

 

Just kidding 🙂

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

2 minutes ago, -Sentient- said:

Hey Umbra,how does it feel to be an Excal prime reskineed with minor changes?

 

 Just kidding 🙂

Don’t go there in this thread, this is not the place.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

anything less than Arcanes or Rivens and I reckon people won't bother. even then, we can get those in spades, it's just those are somewhat valuable to a majority of players.  I know some people will want exclusives but that's not the way DE does things anymore, because it only ever results in toxicity between those who lord their items over others and those who get jealous and can't hold their tongue. even cosmetic exclusives are dicey, because someone is bound to start a storm in a teacup over it.

rewards aren't the only problem though: DE also has to find a way to make the Raids more challenging for a group of super-powered space ninjas with insane weapons, prefereably without resorting to the usual OHKs, CC spam and power nullification that we already experience. it's not an easy job, and I'm surprised they already mentioned raids again so soon, because I think they need more time in order for this to be done properly. 

oh, and then there's accessibility; raids are normally intended to be content aimed at experienced players knowledgeable about the game, who also have a good team they can communicate with, or at least the balls (or stupidity, depending on your perspective) to attempt a public raid. DE initially sang this song about the Eidolons, but in the end they made it so anyone can jump into a game, even if they are of no real benefit to the team. will the same thing happen here? or will there be MR gates, gear checks, ANY kind of system at all that keeps out the burdens while still allowing those who are new but capable and eager to learn? personally I say make them invite only, so that you at least have to get to know a few people and build some level of trust before taking on your first raid, and it would mean no more complaints about MR1s with MK-1 weapons suddenly barging in and ruining everything.

TL;DR: DE has to worry about three things with raids: making the rewards good, making the challenge fair, and making it the right amount of accessible so as to please veterans without locking out 99% of the playerbase. if they can achieve this holy Trinity, then, and only then, might we be able to call raids 2.0 a success.

Edited January 9, 2019 by (PS4)robotwars7

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Rugs.  Primed rugs.  Prisma rugs.  More rugs!

Weapon decor, Orbiter decor, sigils, maybe even another kind of armor. Like something for our forearms, or waist. 

[TheGuyver]

They've been working on the solar rails too, but it's been over three years and the only we've gotten is sanctuary onslaught from it. What it comes do for raids is, why would I go through the struggle of finding X amount of other people to, what I can only imagine is stand on buttons and shoot a turkey for 20 minutes, when I can just go to plains and drop hot death on my foes and farm up to 18 arcanes in 50 minutes? 

It has to be something sustainable to farm and encourage people to go back, preferably something you can't trade. 

[Loza03]

Raid rewards, some thoughts.

For an initial reward to tease players in: A weapon GUARENTEED. No farming - you beat it, you get it.  The weapon should be of the login reward kind of design. Decently powerful stat-wise, but with a useful or fascinating gimmick.  I'm not sure what exactly...

For long term rewards to keep players coming back, I can think of two. 'Peculiar Arcanes' and 'Weapon Gilders'. The latter I freely admit were inspired by another thread. Ask if you're interested, but my version of the idea's more specific.

'Peculiar Arcanes' are arcanes that take up their own slot on a frame and offer some kind of VFX to a Warframe. For example a firey aura, a heavenly glow or wisps of void nebulae. The more complex and impressive they are, the rarer. In effect, completing raids opens up a new avenue for fashion. I reckon trading these would probably be fine.

Weapon Gilders are, basically items that 'gild' a weapon similar to Zaws or Kitguns. However, these would enable weapons below a certain MR and power (So, no Ignis Wraiths or the like. Sorry.) to get a bump up in power. In effect - once you reach the end of the power progression, the weapons that got you there can become viable again. This'd only be available through the Raid - either that, or you have to complete it once to use any ones of these traded to you? One or the other - the idea remains the same. Beat high-end content, get the ability to make low-end loot good again. This has an added benefit of freeing up DE if they ever make more weapons for earlier-game.

 

As for Raid mechanics, what about premade maps designed to subvert existing 'Meta' methods of standing and nuking the place? I had a thought about this the other day, but basically, one section could involve defending multiple disparate locations. Those locations could each have different requirments, both in terms of structure, and maybe handicaps. So, a mini-interception area, a regular defence area, and an area where the objective is sensitive to Warframe abilities, necessitating gunplay. In effect - minimising the potential for a harsh meta by making there be multiple metas per area.

[Chaemyerelis]

Credits

 

Because vets play for the challenge 🙄😁