Not more new frames instead New Skill swaps #2

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

NO more new Warframes Instead Give Old Frames New abilitys i.e Volt thunder shadow clones or Volt Buff that increases weapon damage

Why 

- 30 warframes wont see primes for a long time 

- Deluxe skins wont be catching up anytime soon

-  Tennogen makers cant be catering to every new warframe so many of them will have

almost no Skins/Helmets 

-Will take very long time to See  PC Tennogen to arrive to Console Tennogen 

(Using the same helmet and skin gets very stale and boring)

 

My suggestion

-  Old frames should get new Abilities Added on to them instead of creating new Warframes

example 

- Each frame has 4 ability's  give them 4 new abilitys which can be switched out on the Ability palette

-Maybe add another 4 Ability Palette for a overall 8 Ability for a single warframe which can be accessed during a Mission 

- For Future allow Helmets to be shared between war frames if their geometry is identical

Other games How they handle New Ability's why having 3 body types work well

- Destiny made only 3 body Meshes Hunter,Warock,Hunter

each have a Class another Sub Class with multiple abilitys this is how they dont 

need to make New body meshes for Future ability

- The armours Skins and Helmets are many as they only need to make it for 3 body types.

Unlike warframe which has over 30 different body shapes/size

which need unique skins/helmets catered to their specific frame

image examples

Only 3 Body type meshes (less of a burden for Cosmetics)

 

Multiple sub classes without making a new Body mesh ( More abundance for new Abilitys without burdening cosmetics)

 

 

Too many frames (more burden on cosmetics )

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by (PS4)lokaspoka

[Gabbynaru]

Your thread's one non-Destiny inspired suggestion is: Let's go back to the old ability mods system. Everything else is inspired by Destiny. So go play Destiny. Your idea is undercooked, you padded it out by leaving spaces between every single line and adding pictures just so it looks like there's some meat on this skeleton of an idea.

Let me counteract your points then. First of all, there's a reason why the old ability mods system doesn't exist anymore, it was unpopular. Second, mixing and matching even 4 abilities will cause Warframes to be even more overpowered than they already are, and people are already complaining about power creep. Third, 8 abilities... HAH, as if that would fly. I repeat: Power Creep. Fourth, Destiny's 3 meshes are boring. Also, who decides which 3 meshes remain? Cause I'll be frank, Excalibur is ugly, as is Volt, and Frost is passable, if you have the Harka skin. Fifth, yeah, multiple classes already exist in Warframe. Each Warframe is a class of its own. You're asking for a downgrade. Sixth, see, this is all your idea amounts to. It's undercooked, it's an overall downgrade to the uniqueness of the game, and it's basically screaming I wanna play Destiny! So go do that.

[Vox_Preliator]

Sooo....

You're suggesting to make Warframe into Not Warframe.

Right.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

9 minutes ago, Vox_Preliator said:

Sooo....

You're suggesting to make Warframe into Not Warframe.

Right.

no im saying how to help avoid cosmetic drought for warframes

but if new abilitys need to be added old warframes can get them

instead of making new warframes every time (see above why this is bad for cosmetics)

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

Destiny has... 3 classes, with 3 paths each which usually, in most scenario only have one Meta branch in them attached to an exotic item and they've been milking the hell out of those class with 60-80$ dlc's.
Cosmetic wise it's a joke. It's not even worth being an argument.
The exotic system and their devoted player base is practically their only saving grace, and even then it's an unbalanced mess.

Warframe has a practical infinite number of choice with a model that lets 90% of the character be available and efficient in it's content with a modding system that lets us answer to any kind of situation individually, also catering to a lot of different type of players while keeping the power fantasy core highly present.

-Prime not catching up isn't an issue, it's a flowing and effective market.
-TennoGen and Deluxe not catching up isn't a problem either, they're released in targeted cycles either way and are bound by the creativity of outsiders.
-Body Mesh literally won't increase productivity rate of the situations above, the only thing it does affect is how often a new "type" of ability comes out.

But that's completely redundant in the warframe free to play model because giving out free ability change to all of your previous character doesn't pay back.

The only reason it works with destiny is because they hide the abilities and the new goodies behind their overly high priced DLC that are time-gated to give you a feeling of longevity, practically forcing you to pay 60$ if you want to be part of the game otherwise you're stuck doing absolutely nothing, left behind everyone else and getting rekt by unbalanced new exotics in any of the other content.

Edited January 20, 2019 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)XxDarkyanxX said:

Destiny has... 3 classes, with 3 paths each ent.

i should have known destiny images trigger warframe players.

this thread isnt about destiny. 

Its about Warframes future cometics and Abilitys

im pointing put the pros and cons

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by (PS4)lokaspoka

[(PSN)XxDarkyanxX]

il y a 16 minutes, (PS4)lokaspoka a dit :

i should have known destiny images trigger warframe players.

this thread isnt about destiny. 

Its about Warframes future cometics and Abilitys

im pointing put the pros and cons

And I'm pointing out the flaws in your pros and cons.

You're asking for their business model to stop completely in order to add branching abilities and I'm telling you, it doesn't work like your example suggest it would.

You want branching abilities and less cosmetic burdens.
I'm telling you branching abilities on a free to play characters that already has a number of unique character cosmetics doesn't pay well, and your arguments on cosmetic burdens (TennoGen, Deluxe and prime) makes little sense with the warframe model.

Hell it evens makes it harder for them to be creative with their new abilities without them being gimmicky.
Take the last 3 warframes and try to implement their kit on any of our previous entries. (Since we're not allowed to make new frames)

The only reason I pointed out destiny is because the model you're trying to use is a copy-paste of theirs and you've done me the favour of literally bringing their name into the conversation to further show that you were thinking of them when you made those arguments.

Edited January 20, 2019 by (PS4)XxDarkyanxX

[BiancaRoughfin]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

i should have known destiny images trigger warframe players.

this thread isnt about destiny. 

Its about Warframes future cometics and Abilitys

im pointing put the pros and cons

 

Problem is you are using Destiny as example when they are the ones having to Copy Warframe for ideas.

Now, lets see, 3 Classes with 3 differente specs. That would mean 9 possible playstyles. Warframe has 38 Warframes, each Warframe can be built focused on 1 of 4 abilities each or more flexible builds that balances all of them out. Thats at least 152 playstyles. Also, making a single frame is already very time consuming for the Devs, imagine having to make 4 new abilities for each that are actually themed in which one will receive them and that doesnt completely mimic another already existing skill, thats another 152 Skills/playstyles to come up with.

Also, you have to take in consideration the business model that Digital Extremes uses for keeping the game running. Not making new frames would reduce the amount of time player spend in the game or platinum spent in the game market which is bad for the game and the company as a whole.

[kyori]

You like Destiny but don't want to play Destiny. You like Warframe more but still want to play Destiny, so you want Warframe to become War(Destiny)frame, so that you can play Destiny without playing Destiny. Interesting.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

42 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Also, you have to take in consideration the business model that Digital Extremes uses for keeping the game running. Not making new frames would reduce the amount of time player spend in the game or platinum spent in the game market which is bad for the game and the company as a whole.

that a good point point but if this business model continues there will be near 100+ warframes with no skins/helmets

tennogen,prime version, deluxe

[kgabor]

I would like some frames in the future having 8 or more abilities and more complex kits, it would be probably too much of a burden for the design team to make it the norm though going by the fact there were and are so many frames with redundant abilities or outright outdated/disfunctional kits left out for so long without any updates.

[Tsukinoki]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

that a good point point but if this business model continues there will be near 100+ warframes with no skins/helmets

tennogen,prime version, deluxe

So?
Who cares?
Cosmetics aren't everything and what really matters that a new frame won't get new skins or a prime for a while?  We have tons of cosmetics that work on any frame so even new ones don't look plain and boring if you have a bit of creativity

And again someone asked you to take the last 3 frames kits and find a warframe they could even fit on...
Thing is that by being able to make completely new frames with completely new themes they have a lot more freedom in what they can do and what types of abilities they can fit on a frame.

Take Volt, what other abilities can you fit on him?  Only electric....which is very limited in what it can do.  30 flavors of shocking enemies and that its.
If DE limited themselves to 3 or 4 base designs we wouldn't be getting frames like Revenant, Garuda, or Baruuk, or Zephyr, because they just don't fit into the "3 to 4 base models" that you want them to limit themselves to.

[BiancaRoughfin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

that a good point point but if this business model continues there will be near 100+ warframes with no skins/helmets

tennogen,prime version, deluxe

Look at Garuda, she barely released and there is already a TennoGen Skin coming for her. TennoGen may not be what you want for skin but it sure helps relieve the weight on DE's back so they have more time working on real content instead of Skins.

Spoiler

 

[Kylo.]

2 hours ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:

Why 

- 30 warframes wont see primes for a long time 

- Deluxe skins wont be catching up anytime soon

Warframes are released at the same speed if not slower than Primes?
Primes are every 91/98 days, so 4 a year, 2018 were 4 Warframes, 2017 and 2016 were 3.

[Dreddeth]

Thread cleanup has removed this post's context. Nothing to see here.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Dreddeth

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Hmm.

One can argue that Augments already fulfill your desire for new abilities for Warframes.

To add any more to existing Warframe would dry out the chances of new Warframes. Which hurts DE's profits.

I admit, I do get tired of New Warframes. But they inject fresh blood into the game & sometimes inspire DE to make/design unique mechanics that benefit the overall game.

As for limiting the game to 3 models.

Well to use the Destiny example. There are NOT 3 models. There is one 1.

Human, Awoken, & Exo all use the same wireframe/T-Pose & dimensions.

The only difference in Destiny are the armor designs.

Additionally, Destiny is functionally less complex & significantly more homogenized than Warframe.

3 Classes with 4 paths each. One can argue that means 12 classes.

However all the classes in Destiny play the same. With only Jumping, Mobility, & select abilities being truly unique.

Part of what makes Warframe so unique & keeps characters fresh is the unique models, aesthetics & designs.

As for Tennogen...

Tennogen is 100% reliant on player preference & Frame popularity. We could not have new frames for 2 years & frames could never see a skin. Nidus has been out for years and he's only now finally getting a Tennogen. It depends on the artist.

Limiting the models won't force/in spite creators to make more skins. They will make a skin for whatever they desire. (Look at the popularity of Excalibur & Mag in Tennogen vs other frames.)

[Arcira]

9 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Your thread's one non-Destiny inspired suggestion is: Let's go back to the old ability mods system. Everything else is inspired by Destiny. So go play Destiny. Your idea is undercooked, you padded it out by leaving spaces between every single line and adding pictures just so it looks like there's some meat on this skeleton of an idea.

Agreed the idea isn´t very fleshed out. However the general concept to reduce the amount of new warframes and put more effort into improving existing ones is reasonable. Especially after "new" warframes like valkyr 2.0. We already have enougth range of choice I think it´s time to improve the depth of the game.

9 hours ago, Gabbynaru said:

Let me counteract your points then. First of all, there's a reason why the old ability mods system doesn't exist anymore, it was unpopular. Second, mixing and matching even 4 abilities will cause Warframes to be even more overpowered than they already are, and people are already complaining about power creep. Third, 8 abilities... HAH, as if that would fly. I repeat: Power Creep. Fourth, Destiny's 3 meshes are boring. Also, who decides which 3 meshes remain? Cause I'll be frank, Excalibur is ugly, as is Volt, and Frost is passable, if you have the Harka skin. Fifth, yeah, multiple classes already exist in Warframe. Each Warframe is a class of its own. You're asking for a downgrade. Sixth, see, this is all your idea amounts to. It's undercooked, it's an overall downgrade to the uniqueness of the game, and it's basically screaming I wanna play Destiny! So go do that.

I disagree in some points here:

1.) Ability mods where not unpopular DE simply removed the option to discard usless abilities in favour of better mods. It was a clear indication for what is usefull and what not. But instead of adjusting bad mods they made them a fix part and removed modslots.

2.) There is literally no corellation here. +1000% damage buff on chroma or 1million ehp on inaros has nothing to do with the amount of abilities you can choose from. Most of the balance issues in this game are pure numeric.

3.) Agreed 8 ability-slots is too much. The current maximum of 4 different slots is fine.

5.) And that´s a big problem in my opinion. Some warframes are that much specialized the game has to be balanced around them as the standard. You put yourself in a huge disadvantage by trying to use another warframe.

In my opinion it would be less of a problem if we had access to alternative abilities. Take Vauban for example: his whole kit consist of cc abilities and everyone knows he isn´t that usefull atm because of this. Warframe abilities should behave like weapons. You need be able to adjust to different situations and mod them properly.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Arcira

[Genesix6]

we have augment mod, So instead of new skill, implement the augment directly to the Warframe ability instead of being just mod, they should made the augment as an direct upgrade instead wasting a mod slot. Though some of the augments are garbage but other are pretty good

[(PSN)Zero_029]

2 hours ago, Genesix6 said:

we have augment mod, So instead of new skill, implement the augment directly to the Warframe ability instead of being just mod, they should made the augment as an direct upgrade instead wasting a mod slot. Though some of the augments are garbage but other are pretty good

Honestly I would not mind this.

Like every ability has 1 augment slot that players can choose to utilize or not.

Frees up 1 mod slot, & allows DE to refine, alter, & specialize abilities.

Hell, I'd be ok with us having to craft some adapter or something in order to unlock each slot.

I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

Edited January 21, 2019 by (PS4)Zero_029

[Genesix6]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Honestly I would not kind this.

Like every ability has 1 augment slot that players can choose to utilize or not.

Frees up 1 mod slot, & allows DE to refine, alter, & specialize abilities.

Hell, I'd be ok with us having to craft some adapter or something in order to unlock each slot.

I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

That could really work, but then again people would complain that "THIS IS OP"

[5H4DE]

You seem to want to play Destiny, go play Destiny, Bungie split from Activision so it should only get better.

[Veridian]

37 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

That could really work, but then again people would complain that "THIS IS OP"

That would make augs mandatory. Most people would complain that DE lock half the ability behind a grind...etc.

 

On topic, you know the OP is in high school when the only question answered is "what do I like".

Have you ever thought about how that would be financially feasible, or what would happen if the primes catch up to the normal variants, why are some frames more represented in tennogen and would your solution fix that, would less themes actually help cosmetic creators with inspired ideas, why would an alternative skill palette be implemented for a frame when you can just make another frame, how are skills going to fit thematically, how is having less frames bringing more cosmetic diversity...etc. 

[Genesix6]

1 minute ago, Ver1dian said:

That would make augs mandatory. Most people would complain that DE lock half the ability behind a grind...etc.

 

On topic, you know the OP is in high school when the only question answered is "what do I like".

Have you ever thought about how that would be financially feasible, or what would happen if the primes catch up to the normal variants, why are some frames more represented in tennogen and would your solution fix that, would less themes actually help cosmetic creators with inspired ideas, why would an alternative skill palette be implemented for a frame when you can just make another frame, how are skills going to fit thematically, how is having less frames bringing more cosmetic diversity...etc. 

Well I know what happen when prime catches up to the normal one, result is No prime access, no income for DE. I didn't agree on OP at all so not sure why you are responding to me, however each year has 4 prime access (each is 3 months) if DE were to stop making new frames, they will still have a lot frames that can be use for prime.  (Such as equinox, nezha, wukong, Titania, harrow and etc)

Well if they implement a new skill onto a Warframe it could help with diversity build, I mean the current frame has only 2 to 4 build that. So it's not overall a bad idea to add more diversity build. though implement augment to the Warframe skill and making a skill tree is another option, the one problem is that some of the augment are down useless, and some are quite good.

Though if we are talking about skill that is theme, there is a few frames doesn't really fit the theme, which is Vauban you throw a ball, I mean he is an engineer, it would make sense to give him an exated turret. 

As far for tennogen goes, I don't really understand about the market tennogen. So I am not going to bother with this one

 

[Firetempest]

That's not warframe at all. Maybe a gimmick for a trio of frames much like Equinox. But not for throwing away what we have.

[Veridian]

5 minutes ago, Genesix6 said:

Well I know what happen when prime catches up to the normal one, result is No prime access, no income for DE. I didn't agree on OP at all so not sure why you are responding to me, however each year has 4 prime access (each is 3 months) if DE were to stop making new frames, they will still have a lot frames that can be use for prime.  (Such as equinox, nezha, wukong, Titania, harrow and etc)

Well if they implement a new skill onto a Warframe it could help with diversity build, I mean the current frame has only 2 to 4 build that. So it's not overall a bad idea to add more diversity build. though implement augment to the Warframe skill and making a skill tree is another option, the one problem is that some of the augment are down useless, and some are quite good.

Though if we are talking about skill that is theme, there is a few frames doesn't really fit the theme, which is Vauban you throw a ball, I mean he is an engineer, it would make sense to give him an exated turret. 

As far for tennogen goes, I don't really understand about the market tennogen. So I am not going to bother with this one

 

It was only for that one thing, everything else mainly addressed the OP's suggestions.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Ver1dian