Eject! Stalker Mode Needs Serious Work

[EmberStar]

44 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Players are always asking for a real challenge in warframe, but when something challenging comes up, they say that it's trash & not fun

*Some* players are asking for challenge.  *Other* players define challenge differently.  And *some* players don't want to interact with PVP for any reason.

Personally, I wish they'd just let this mode die already.  There's no way they can implement it that isn't going to have *some* faction shouting on the forums about how it's "ruined" and "a complete waste of dev time."  If it's full PVP with no opt out, people who hate PVP will flip.  If it's opt out, PVP people who want to gank everyone will flip.  If there's no exclusive rewards, people flip.  If there *are* exclusive rewards, people will flip.

I've stated my opinion on Stalker mode repeatedly.  I'm also aware that I'm one player out of millions, and my opinion is worth slightly more than nothing to the devs.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

I'm pretty sure there will be an Opt-In/Out for it as DE doesn't need the negative press it would create otherwise.

But to be fair...with Stalker being 1 shot & Spoiler Mode being in game.

No PVP player no matter how skilled has a CHANCE in hell of winning as him.

Seriously. My Spoiler Mode could kill an army of 1000 Stalkers & Shadow Stalkers by himself.

My issue with the mode possibly not having an Opt mode is that I KNOW PVPers will cry rivers of tears to nerf PVE as Stalker gets his *bleep* STOMPED up, down, inside, outside, & side to side.

The MOMENT DE nerfs PVE to benefit PVP is when they've gone full Bungie & that's when the game becomes a lost cause. It's an endless cycle at that point.

[EmberStar]

41 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

So your like the rest, "never tried it (even tho it's not even out), but I still don't like it"

Yes.  Because I've tried PVP enough to know that I hate PVP.  Unconditionally, and without reservation.  I will not play any game mode that can have PVP.  At this point, I don't even play Void Defense unless I'm solo, because people use the stupid lasers to gank the team for laughs.

I personally don't care what flavor of PVP it is.  I already hate it *because* it is PVP.

[-Krism-]

2 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

Yes.  Because I've tried PVP enough to know that I hate PVP.  Unconditionally, and without reservation.  I will not play any game mode that can have PVP.  At this point, I don't even play Void Defense unless I'm solo, because people use the stupid lasers to gank the team for laughs.

I personally don't care what flavor of PVP it is.  I already hate it *because* it is PVP.

You need to read my other posts before quoting this

[EmberStar]

4 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

You need to read my other posts before quoting this

I did read them.  That's why I posted this.

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

50 minutes ago, Serafinia said:

The major problem is many players hate by heart the pvp but they want to be challenged but they does not realize the best challenge is a living person who can think, use tactic. 

The AI won't be as smart and tactful as pve players want and DE does not capable to add more and interesting enemies only sponges. This game is a hordeshooter and the conclave and every other non pve game mode exists because they hoped we will use it to be challenged. 

Lunaro could be a challenge if there will be larger teams, attendance, tournaments and a stable server host.

Conclave can be fun if more people play it and there would be an option to match you with similar level / skilled players.

Dark sectors were interesting but it was buggy and not many clan liked to capture and defend sectors.

Frame fighter added in purpose to make some fun yet players not use it.

The list goes on and they never will able to please us because the replayability and challenge is mainly come from pvp not pve. The pve is sadly limited.

 

PS : I do like pve and pvp in games and a healthy balance would be nice but they need to change ideology and fix halfbaked stuffs before adding bone dry content.

 

44 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Finally! Someone actually understands that! Damn

We already had this discussion. 

The majority do not wish for this.  No matter how many "positives" you make up or how often you bait those on the other side, ideas like these will remain unpopular.  Don't take my word for it, if this passes through (unlikely), the participation numbers will speak for themselves.  And you'll be right back here with threads on how to entice more players to participate......just like Conclave.

 

So go ahead and waste your time talking to a brick wall.

[BornWithTeeth]

So long as the various glitches/dumb bits of implementation are addressed, and the mode is opt in/opt out, I’m ok with it. I hope there’s some neat badges for successful kills/successful survival.

[-Krism-]

23 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

I did read them.  That's why I posted this.

Then it means you didn't get my point with my example

[EmberStar]

2 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

Then it means you didn't get my point with my example

What example?  The thing with pies?  I don't need to taste your pie.  It's a PVP pie, and I already know I hate *every* variation of PVP pie.

[Emolition]

1 hour ago, Serafinia said:

The major problem is many players hate by heart the pvp but they want to be challenged but they does not realize the best challenge is a living person who can think, use tactic. 

The AI won't be as smart and tactful as pve players want and DE does not capable to add more and interesting enemies only sponges. This game is a hordeshooter and the conclave and every other non pve game mode exists because they hoped we will use it to be challenged. 

The major reason I avoid pvp in any game is from back in the day playing shooters like medal of honor allied assault ppl to lazy to get good and they turn to cheats and hacks. So why invest my time getting good when it feels like 50% of the ppl you would fight use aim bots or wall hacks (in case of mohaa).

 

AI can bug out some times but I know they will never use cheats.

[-Krism-]

25 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

What example?  The thing with pies?  I don't need to taste your pie.  It's a PVP pie, and I already know I hate *every* variation of PVP pie.

That was exactly my point, but that just means I was right, you didn't get my point

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

That was exactly my point, but that just means I was right, you didn't get my point

Yo, Xenox, can we pause for two seconds and go into the pie thing? I do have a thing that might be worth examining, and I would like to discuss that, purely in terms of pie.

[EmberStar]

4 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

That was exactly my point, but that just means I was right, you didn't get my point

What point?  I don't need to try it to know I won't like it.  I won't like it because *it is PVP.*  There is no possible variation of the mechanics that could cause me to like it.  It's the very fact that I am required to attack, or be attacked by another player that's the problem.  IE, the thing that *makes* the mode PVP.

[wargthewarg]

1 hour ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

That's exactly what I said, if I make you a pie, but you hate the taste, next time I give you a different pie, even tho it's different, if it's still a pie, you won't eat it?

So is the taste PvP or the pie? Because if PvP is the taste and you removed it then of course it will be a different scenario.

However, if you think that the pie is PvP and that all it takes to serve it up with different filling then you are still always just serving the same pie in different flavor.

And stalker mode is like serving a vegan a meat pie. Forcing players doing PvE to randomly need to go PvP is just a bad idea.

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

Dear DE,

If there's no option to opt out for PvE players, kindly force all PvP players to roleplay for a sizeable portion of their play time, with penalties for breaking character, like halved resource and affinity gain for a few hours.

Because, you know, everyone should have playstyles they don't like forced on them. Consent is for safe-word-having babies.

Your truly,

Me.

[----Legacy----]

1 hour ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

The majority do not wish for this.  No matter how many "positives" you make up or how often you bait those on the other side, ideas like these will remain unpopular. 

An opinion being popular isn't automatically the right one, and warframe's development cycle is a huge proof of that since PvE content offers a replayability so small that even big updates with walls of RNG on top of more RNG and daily caps can be usually completed by players in a couple of weeks before the "content drought" crowd starts popping back out of their caves, while on the other hand, the few players who enjoy conclave still play it despite having no new rewards since Lunaro was released and no new gear to use nearly since Revenant's release.

1 hour ago, EmberStar said:

What example?  The thing with pies?  I don't need to taste your pie.  It's a PVP pie, and I already know I hate *every* variation of PVP pie.

Have you even tried *every* variation of PvP pie? Otherwise you sound like that annoying 3 years old refusing to have a taste of a dish simply because he doesn't like the way it looks. Hell, i personally hate mashed potatoes but i still love fries ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited January 25, 2019 by ----Legacy----

[MagPrime]

Now I'm craving pie, thanks guys. 

But, yeah, no, if that pie has PvP baked in, I don't care what other flavors it has in it.  It still has PvP baked in and I'm on a strictly no PvP diet.

41 minutes ago, Xenox_Ilz-ot said:

That was exactly my point, but that just means I was right, you didn't get my point

Or you used an awful analogy to make your point and you're the only one who understands it. 

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

An opinion being popular isn't automatically the right one, and warframe's development cycle is a huge proof of that since PvE content offers a replayability so small that even big updates with walls of RNG on top of more RNG and daily caps can be usually completed by players in a couple of weeks before the "content drought" crowd starts popping back out of their caves, while on the other hand, the few players who enjoy conclave still play it despite having no new rewards since Lunaro was released and no new gear to use nearly since Revenant's release.

I plainly stated majority.  Majority has nothing to do with right or wrong.  The bottom line is still that the unpopularity will speak for itself.  I am not against Conclave or even PvP.  I am against PvP in my PvE environment.

If I wanted that I would play BDO.

[EmberStar]

3 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Have you even tried *every* variation of PvP pie? Otherwise you sound like that annoying 3 years old refusing to have a taste of a dish simply because he doesn't like the way it looks. Hell, i personally hate mashed potatoes but i still love fries ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The pie thing is an awful analogy.  The short version is, I hate the core concept of PVP - any situation where two players attack each other.  In most games, I will not enter PVP zones regardless of the actual risk or any possible rewards.  In Champions Online, they added a mechanic that allows some people to turn themselves into powerful NPCs, and attack NPC targets.  Other players can choose to defend the targets by attacking the Onslaught Villains.  When it was first release there were (not surprisingly) numerous bugs that allowed the Villains to potentially flag other players as valid targets.  Maybe they've fixed those bugs since then, maybe they haven't.  I don't know, because my response to the *existance* of the system was to walk away from my Lifetime Subscription to the game, uninstall, and never look back.  From my point of view, the devs of that game turned the primary social hub into a mixed PVP zone.  I hate PVP more than I liked the game, so I quit.

I don't need to try PVP again to know that there is no possible way that I could enjoy it.

[(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy]

Oh, for the pie analogy:

If I make you an apple pie where the filling consists of apples and dog s*** and you don't like it, then I make you a pie where the filling consists of pumpkin and dog s*** are you going to eat it? Are you going choke down a slice in order to give it a fair shake, or are you going to ask me to quit trying to get you to eat dog s*** pie?

Believe it or not, some people don't want to eat dog s***.  No matter what else you put in that pie. No matter how much love you bake it with. Some folks aren't into eating dog s***.

In this analogy, the dog s*** is PvP.

If you want to argue that people need to try it first, well... I'll bake you a whole bunch of pies. You will not enjoy them.

[Serafinia]

 

1 hour ago, Emolition said:

The major reason I avoid pvp in any game is from back in the day playing shooters like medal of honor allied assault ppl to lazy to get good and they turn to cheats and hacks. So why invest my time getting good when it feels like 50% of the ppl you would fight use aim bots or wall hacks (in case of mohaa).

 

AI can bug out some times but I know they will never use cheats.

That point is valid but the warframe is a different game and the whole system built differently. In this game I never detected cheats or peoples whom could use any of it except the money hack thing which is somehow untouched and it punishes the peoples whom pay for the platinum on legal sources. The AI could use cheats if they program it to bypass the player no matter how good the player. The humans can make mistakes and that makes more fair except if someone use cheats. In this game never ever seen anyone using aimbot - speed hack.

[GreeneLanterne]

I do not have a problem with the pvp mode until I can decide when and how I want to participate. If they force the pvp or the mindless grind without adding fun and semi engaging content then I am not participate into them. I know the pvp part can add challenge but somehow I feel the current implementation of pvp is not what you can say fun or engaging.

[ValorakExiles]

I have no problem with the pvp at all but the best option would make it skippable side additon so whom wish to play it they can and others whom not wish to engage they can skip it without any harm. There is simply too many closed doors for the pvp here cause the majority pve oriented and if we want pleases the pvp and pve playerbase then this mode should be opt in/out.

[----Legacy----]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

I plainly stated majority.  Majority has nothing to do with right or wrong. 

That's exactly my point, no matter how popular is the anti pvp position, pvp offers way more replayability than pve with a way smaller resource investment and DE catering only to the PvE content hungry side of the playerbase is part of why they are currently so busy that even going back to old content seems to be a hard task (just take a look at how many pieces of gear still have no PBR despite the update being started years ago, and we still rarely see those updates anymore)

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

The bottom line is still that the unpopularity will speak for itself.  I am not against Conclave or even PvP.  I am against PvP in my PvE environment.

With that statement you're assuming there won't be opt-in/out from the mode while we have no actual idea about DE's current plans for it. Either way, our best bet is to wait and see how do things unfold while keeping in mind that players here in forums are nothing but a vocal minority of the warframe community.

12 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

The pie thing is an awful analogy.  The short version is, I hate the core concept of PVP - any situation where two players attack each other.

Fair enough, i personally dislike some other things in warframe and avoid them as the plague even if that keeps me locked out of certain rewards.

[Sziklamester]

I have the same hate on operators as many hates the pvp here. I personally skipping that content because absolutely not interested in. The pvp currently lack but it gives a lot of replayability as how Legacy and Serafinia said. True there are bad examples in the gaming world which makes the pvp less interesting and makes a lot of peoples hate it but bad experiences should not manipulate players thinking.

Also currently we do not know how they wish to implement the game mode or it will be implemented at all, but I am sure the pve content cannot keep the players interested enough and I hate to come to the forums to read content drough, not engaging, no challenge, veterans etc. It makes me mad when I need to cater the cry because a lot of persons cannot use their time to play the game to not burn out or not find enough engage in the game.

The current game is unbalanced because the devs cannot decide what they want to make so it is a morbid halfway in between a horde shooter and a challenging game. I do not like to fight against the stupid AI and tolerate all day the bugs of silly pathfinding and game breaking bugs or host migrations when the game could be better if they fix the game before adding new content half baked. They do need to focus on the replayability as a value and focus on content which means no grind. They cannot achieve this because the business policy says otherwise and they trying to implement pvp as a source of challenge because it is cheaper and can give challenge.

The AI is by far lower level and if they increase it then the game needs to be redesigned to suits to the new standards so it will be less casual friendly and they can say good bye to a huge amount of money.