Time to change Valkyr?

[nlas-slayerkane]

9 minutes ago, DerGreif2 said:

She is outdated. She is not special anymore nor does she fit the role of a berserker or melee based warframe in the moment if you compare her to other frames.

 

Because why? Do you play Valkyr alongside other characters? Do you realize that you have often the same impact if not a better if you just using a frame with a melee weapon than using Valkyr with a melee? Thats a pretty bad thing IMO.

point taken.. i dont use her that often the when fooling around but yeah again point taken for serious playing

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

This is going through my head with every single Valkyr rework suggestion.

A tweak to Ripline wouldn't be too outlandish, don't you agree?

[XaoGarrent]

On 2019-02-24 at 3:59 PM, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

They're not wrong. She might do more damage per hit, but the short range/AoE greatly limits it and makes it inferior to... Well... Let's be real here, Atlas' 1 is better than Valkyr's 4. So basically every melee exalted or exalted like ability. That's before getting into the fact that ol' Excal has greater range too, better melee combos, and can even gain a ton of survivablity with what is an incredibly straightforward mod setup.

Atlas being a better berserker than the frame who's entire theme is being a berserker really demonstrates that she needs some kind of an update.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Let's be real here, Atlas' 1 is better than Valkyr's 4

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA OMFGGG

 

Best one yet!

[XaoGarrent]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA OMFGGG

 

Best one yet!

Y'know what's even better?

The fact you have no argument, just faux incredulity. Keep laughing, just makes my point more obvious to everyone else.

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

17 minutes ago, XaoGarrent said:

Y'know what's even better?

The fact you have no argument, just faux incredulity. Keep laughing, just makes my point more obvious to everyone else.

Landslide has no crit, no status, isn't an Exalted Weapon and can't be modded separately. Hysteria is a monstrous Exalted Weapon. Insane crit, equal IPS, high attack speed, very high base damage, lifesteal and charge attacks execute Finishers; which are a death sentence for 99.99% of all enemies. I'm laughing because of how ridiculously misinformed you are.

[CrazyValkyr]

Being a Valkyr main with over 3k hours in mission time with her (yes, she's basically the only 'frame I play, bite me, haha) - Whatever they do, if ever, with Valkyr, they better not touch Warcry. It's bread and butter of fun for Valkyr, when combined with Eternal War augument and perhaps that one ability, that work fantastic for her. I would perhaps like if the slow-down of enemies was functional on sight, rather than on cast, so she'd have some CC capability that could be benefical for the teamplay, but otherwise, Warcry is in a fine spot for her.

I personally am not a fan of Hysteria; its' invulnerability part is the reason it got the treatment of increased Energy drain over time, plus the casting speed is just terrible, in an event you only use Hysteria for self-heals <--- My case until I got better ways of self-heals, that aren't Life Strike or other gimmick. Sadly, I have no answer to this ability, as to what'd make it more appealing to me. A side note, it sometimes glitches to the point that I am unable to attack, or cast any ability when using it in the quick sequence of turn on and then off.

I would love to see some synergy for her abilities perhaps, that complement and support melee-gameplay even further. Paralysis is not all that useful in its' current state either and Ripline.. I only use to joke around & ripline my best friend to Extraction. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by CrazyValkyr

[peterc3]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

A tweak to Ripline wouldn't be too outlandish, don't you agree?

Don't use it except once in a while anyways, could not care less if it were changed or not. Won't change how I play Valkyr.

7 hours ago, DerGreif2 said:

She is outdated. She is not special anymore nor does she fit the role of a berserker or melee based warframe in the moment if you compare her to other frames.

When was she special? When was any frame really special? She defines the berserker archetype. How does she not fit the role of a melee based frame?

I just don't play a frame if I don't like it. I don't assume the game is developed wrong if it is. I don't presume my way of using a frame is the best and it should be changed to suit my style.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

She definitely needs sum tweaks but with the melee 2.999 update her only real drawback... Being able to take enemies at range... Will be rectified.

[XaoGarrent]

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Landslide has no crit, no status

Instead, an absolutely ridiculous amount of base damage that would make adding either of those things produce one of the most broken if not the most broken ability in the game. Not only would it do far more damage than Valkyr's talons, but it would do it over a larger area that's modified by ability range.

At this point I feel like I don't even need to mention the fact it's modified by Rivens.

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Isn't an Exalted Weapon and can't be modded separately. Hysteria is a monstrous Exalted Weapon. Insane crit, equal IPS, high attack speed, very high base damage, lifesteal and charge attacks execute Finishers; which are a death sentence for 99.99% of all enemies. I'm laughing because of how ridiculously misinformed you are.

But possess nearly all the upsides to one, with almost none of the downsides, such as constant energy drain that blocks energy recovery from many common sources, and being locked into the weapon until you disengage it. I hope for your sake they don't add more enemies with special body resistance to the game.

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

can't be modded separately.

Look at that forma I just saved.

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Hysteria is a monstrous Exalted Weapon.

In a game where every other Exalted weapon barring Wukong's is somehow more monstrous. And I might be wrong about that. Wukong is... I think he's actually the one frame I don't play. Oh, Wukong and Ember.

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

very high base damage, lifesteal and charge attacks execute Finishers; which are a death sentence for 99.99% of all enemies.

Atlas' 1 has higher base damage, and he has regeneration built into his kit, a kit that overall is better than Valkyr's pigeonholed mess.

Finishers are a marked improvement to even the most run down, out of date frames though. But if I wanted finishers I'd just play Ash and 

OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU

4 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

I'm laughing because of how ridiculously misinformed you are.

Where I come from we call this hubris.

[DerGreif2]

14 hours ago, peterc3 said:

When was she special? When was any frame really special? She defines the berserker archetype. How does she not fit the role of a melee based frame?

Every frame has a theme so any frame is some kind of special. If you dont see that then I dont know how to explain it to you. Valkyr also has a theme dont get me wrong but to be as efficient like any other frames without abilities in terms of melee combat if not worse it... just bad. She just gets speed and armor... you can acquire speed on other frames with Berserker or (Primed) Fury and the armor is just a bad "damage reduction". When you look at how many frames have 90% damage reduction and then you look at Valk... it gets pretty obvious.

 

17 hours ago, CrazyValkyr said:

Whatever they do, if ever, with Valkyr, they better not touch Warcry.

I agree. Its the only part of her kit that is rely good. but even then it bugs out if you have to much power -.-

[Devz1]

I love Valkyr. The way she looks, sounds, etc. But I think she feels outdated in some areas, and I would like to share my ideas on how to improve her kit.

1. Rip Line. Ok, first complaint: it feels too slow. Bullet jumping is fast and combining it with Rip Line kills your momentum too much. Make it less floaty? Make it faster and update her static animations while swinging. Look at Sekiro's grappling hook for inspiration on how to make it more visually pleasing. Also, make it so when used on an enemy they don't fly to the moon, instead it functions as a "Get over here!" Mortal Kombat move, pulling them towards you and opening them up for finishers. Or maybe you pull yourself to them?

2. Warcry. Leave it as is. 

3. Paralysis. I never use this ability. Maybe store damage based on number of melee kills, which you can then release? Would be cool to literally scream a whole group to death.

4. Hysteria. Speed up the activation to instant, in my opinion. The animation is fine, just make Valkyr invulnerable immediately upon pressing 4.

That's it really. Let me know what you think.

[DerGreif2]

8 hours ago, Devz1 said:

That's it really. Let me know what you think

I agree with the things you said. Her Hysteria should be active when you press the button and not after the animation where she stands in one place and does nothing for 2 seconds.

The idea for the 3 sounds interesting.

Also a clear yes for the 1.

[Gnohme]

On 2019-02-25 at 4:56 AM, Madway7 said:

Or you could... umm.. idk, bullet jump?

Not if I already used my bullet jump, wise guy. I'm tryin to extend my travel time. Personally I feel completely robbed when any game slams an invisible air brake on me after I reach peak momentum. It's always jarring, and it's always dissatisfying. It shouldn't happen with Zephyr's 1, it shouldn't happen with Valkyr's 1. Maybe add an option for it if people are concerned about overshooting their jumps - or you could um I don't know - adjust your aim? 

 

For people who say there isn't any space in the current tilesets - let's look past the fact that we now have gigantic open world maps where there's space enough to have #*!%ing Tribes skiis in the game - and look at some of our more basic tilesets: 

Yup no space there. The game should definitely make me fall in the center of the pit, instead of making it across. Just because there's not enough space in SOME of the areas doesn't mean that the entire mechanic should be nerfed. That's lame.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Gnohme

[Madway7]

4 hours ago, Gnohme said:

Not if I already used my bullet jump, wise guy. I'm tryin to extend my travel time. Personally I feel completely robbed when any game slams an invisible air brake on me after I reach peak momentum. It's always jarring, and it's always dissatisfying. It shouldn't happen with Zephyr's 1, it shouldn't happen with Valkyr's 1. Maybe add an option for it if people are concerned about overshooting their jumps - or you could um I don't know - adjust your aim? 

 

For people who say there isn't any space in the current tilesets - let's look past the fact that we now have gigantic open world maps where there's space enough to have #*!%ing Tribes skiis in the game - and look at some of our more basic tilesets: 

Yup no space there. The game should definitely make me fall in the center of the pit, instead of making it across. Just because there's not enough space in SOME of the areas doesn't mean that the entire mechanic should be nerfed. That's lame.

I didn't want to add this extra context, but for open spaces you still have much better alternatives, void dash and AW (in vallis, cause plains doesn't have things to latch onto in many areas). And in general the open space to enclosed space ratio is biased towards enclosed spaces, yes, there are big open (non vallis) parts for some corpus maps, less for grineer, but there are some, I just really don't see it as a good or useful mobility tool even in those. I would rather just have a new ability with a different interaction.

 

[Hellmaker2004]

Ripline dose give her more mobility than bullet jumping, i would argue it is more than anyone may need but i am probably wrong. Especialy since you want to be in the thick of it. But this is also one of the major reason why i have no idea what they should do with it. The best of two worlds would be to keep the mobility aspect, and make it better as a tool against foes.

What i am confused by is how some people argue that Hysteria is bad. Now there is no doubt that ordinary melee weapons will outpace it eventualy as they scale with the combo counter(Something that is also getting reworked soon, but we do not really know how so lets wait before that is a argument), but if you build her correctly those claws will rip and tear. She is pretty much one of my go to frames when there is some bullS#&amp;&#036; Sortie with Ambulas at the end, such as Augmented Enemy Armor. Because you simply go in there and do the crouch spin to win and that Ambulas is out of here in a second.

Do the claws have short range, yes, is the ability kinda counterproductive with both invulnerability and life stealing, yes. Does it have a uneccesary long cast, yes. But damage, that S#&amp;&#036; is crazy in the damage.

[Andele3025]

14 minutes ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

What i am confused by is how some people argue that Hysteria is bad.

Because DE made it have a "stop playing the game every 2 rooms" mechanic/punishment for having fun for too long attached to it that doesnt synergize with her kit by ignoring the armor and its own lifesteal instead of working to make her berserker theme stronger...

As said prior all her concepts and numbers are solid, its just 1 having reverse pull strength and the dogdroppings implementation of how hysterias downside works.

[LightZodiac]

On 2019-02-25 at 9:29 AM, Xzorn said:

Works fine for me...

The best melee weapon I have is a rivened Gram Prime which at 2.5x combo counter deals 360k true damage in the form of slash procs (and I'm completely ignoring the raw damage which will largely be ignored by armor here). It's stronger against single target and on top of that it can hit multiple targets.

Until melee rework does something about meme strike kitty's claws are really nothing special except for the selfheal thing.

[Hellmaker2004]

4 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

The best melee weapon I have is a rivened Gram Prime which at 2.5x combo counter deals 360k true damage in the form of slash procs (and I'm completely ignoring the raw damage which will largely be ignored by armor here). It's stronger against single target and on top of that it can hit multiple targets.

Until melee rework does something about meme strike kitty's claws are really nothing special except for the selfheal thing.

Do not forget that Valkyre stance on her strongst attack is.

Launching Spring

Slide + E5X

So using one of the 240109 is a very poor representation of how much damage the Claws are doing.

Now, i will say that the claw range is way less than a Gram Prime. And that the Combo counter will probably make Gram deal more damage eventualy, hell i think a lot of weapons will deal more damage eventualy because of the combo counter that her claws are restricted by.

[Xzorn]

40 minutes ago, LightZodiac said:

The best melee weapon I have is a rivened Gram Prime which at 2.5x combo counter deals 360k true damage in the form of slash procs (and I'm completely ignoring the raw damage which will largely be ignored by armor here). It's stronger against single target and on top of that it can hit multiple targets.

Until melee rework does something about meme strike kitty's claws are really nothing special except for the selfheal thing.

 

Someone said Hysteria damage sucks.

I showed a pic for over 1 million damage that's being mitigated by 99.14% Armor and I've improved the build since that pic.

Gram does not beat Hysteria in single target because Hysteria can Execute with a much higher base damage though if you have a broken Gram Riven they're close. At any rate the damage isn't the part that makes Hysteria Valkyr's best build. It's the fact she can stay alive to make use of the damage.

Hysteria will outlast any other Valkyr build because Valkyr outside Hysteria is squishy so by default Hysteria is Valkyr's best option.

EDIT: Oh and I'm not sure if it's just one of many incoming Melee 2.999 bugs but Hysteria seems to be performing Executes constantly.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Xzorn

[Madway7]

20 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Someone said Hysteria damage sucks.

I showed a pic for over 1 million damage that's being mitigated by 99.14% Armor and I've improved the build since that pic.

Gram does not beat Hysteria in single target because Hysteria can Execute with a much higher base damage though if you have a broken Gram Riven they're close. At any rate the damage isn't the part that makes Hysteria Valkyr's best build. It's the fact she can stay alive to make use of the damage.

Hysteria will outlast any other Valkyr build because Valkyr outside Hysteria is squishy so by default Hysteria is Valkyr's best option.

EDIT: Oh and I'm not sure if it's just one of many incoming Melee 2.999 bugs but Hysteria seems to be performing Executes constantly.

Yeah they seem to leave a lot of experimental changes in, anyways I mainly wished Hysteria had more movement in its stance, as it is it just feels sluggish unless I slide attack all the time, but damage is def not an issue despite the low status chance.

[Xzorn]

4 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Yeah they seem to leave a lot of experimental changes in, anyways I mainly wished Hysteria had more movement in its stance, as it is it just feels sluggish unless I slide attack all the time, but damage is def not an issue despite the low status chance.

 

Yea, there's really a lot I wish they'd done with Valkyr rather than just nerf Hysteria and release her Prime.

The combos on Hysteria for instance are awful and even break as she flails wildly mid air defying gravity.

Pretty much every ability she has could use some tweaks and I fear the only way she'll get them is if people stop playing her.

[LightZodiac]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Someone said Hysteria damage sucks.

I said it doesn't feel like anything special.

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

I showed a pic for over 1 million damage that's being mitigated by 99.14% Armor and I've improved the build since that pic.

Yeah you have to wear that armor down a bit with corrosive procs to get rid of some of that armor mitigation to make more of that damage matter. And... it's not like you did anything wrong, it's not like I'm trying to flex here because... something something.

You built your Valky for Histeria, which makes her squishy outside of it, so you could have powerful claws which actually kill high level enemies and they do so.

+90 crit on spin from meme strike, + another +90 crit on spin from the riven +Blood Rush = +1000% crit chance at 2.5x. Also riven has + status and +slash so... about 70% chance for a slash proc. It outdamages Valky even for a single target, with it you can happily jump into a group of enemies and "happily hopily I spin2win my choppily!" it isn't limited to 2.5x so... I guess you get microwave crits at some point. And while you had to min-max Valky this is a sword which doesn't even require gladiator mods and you can put it into anyone hands... Inaros, Nidus, Valky with 100% survivability mods. Also at lvl1-100 missions with Valky in Histeria I often run around like a moron trying to find something to kill while somebody with a spin2win whip and micro clears everything.

Valky is fine, it's this bunch of broken things that are not fine.

EDIT: Fine damage wise, she does need some tweaks, for one all, literally all of her augments should be her default abilities.

Edited March 3, 2019 by LightZodiac

[Gnohme]

 

I think that DE could take a few notes from the way Pathfinder's grapple works in Apex Legends. If Valkyr's Ripline was anything like that I'd be in love with it. 

18 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I didn't want to add this extra context, but for open spaces you still have much better alternatives, void dash and AW (in vallis, cause plains doesn't have things to latch onto in many areas). And in general the open space to enclosed space ratio is biased towards enclosed spaces, yes, there are big open (non vallis) parts for some corpus maps, less for grineer, but there are some, I just really don't see it as a good or useful mobility tool even in those. I would rather just have a new ability with a different interaction.

 

But Operator and Archwing gameplay are both boring to me. Sure Archwing is fast, but the movement has no physics whatsoever, just fixed camera angle S#&amp;&#036;. I don't like Void dash because at some point they made it so you can't retain the momentum from it. You just drop directly down. I want smooth maneuvering mechanics that don't rob me of my velocity.

 

Honestly, the "efficiency" argument is kinda lost on me. I want to have fun too. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Gnohme

[Devz1]

Expanding on the Rip Line ideas, since Steve mentioned that "Juggling" enemies will eventually be introduced in one of the later melee updates. Doesn't it make perfect sense to integrate Rip Line into that? Jump in the air, Rip Line an enemy, and then wail on them in the air, Devil May Cry style.