Some feedback on the nighwave system from a casual player

[maddragonmaster]

3 minutes ago, RaidenFirewing said:

Steve confirmed on twitter that The Wolf of Saturn Six will last "10 ish" Weeks, and to get all 30 tiers, you're supposed to complete around 60% of all challenges.
So there is really no need to rush.
https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/1101102882026336256

 

 

now why does that not make me feel relaxed.  oh wait its the 10'ish weeks. that means it could end sooner.

Edited February 28, 2019 by maddragonmaster

[ShortCat]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Should completely casual and "fresh out the pod" new Tenno really be getting the higher tier rewards? 

Are new players allowed to progress at all? The only weekly tasks a new player would be able to complete this week are: PoE Bounties (3k) + Capture missions (3k) + kill 500 (3k). Maybe complete: Invasions (3k) + Siamris scan (3k) + SO (3k). Now throw in all the daily tasks and a new player could not get a single item from the new system this week. No auras, no new wepons, no skins, resources, creddits etc.

Casuals would be able to complete most of them, maybe even while doing priority tasks. Yield is still terrible though. If task destribution remians the same, every week offers 43k standing. This means after the 6th tier, it would require at least 40k a week to have access to the next Wolf Creddits node. Even if you reach all the Wolf nodes, good luck spending those whooping 300 Creddits over 10 weeks, when a helmet goes for 35, weapon BP for 50, aura mod for 20 and most important one - potato for 75! I am sure old Alert system offered more than a Dark Dagger BP a week.

As for advanced players? This is just a checklist, that forces people to do stuff they have done to death and occupies time, that could be spent on activities people would enjoy more.

Edited February 28, 2019 by ShortCat

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, ShortCat said:

Are new players allowed to progress at all?

Yes, you just listed the various ways in which they can progress.

In case you misread it, the OP doesn't mention or refer to the wolf creds at all, just "higher tier rewards". Nothing else, just that.

My comment stands, should the very casual and utterly new players really be getting higher tier rewards? Not really.

I'm not opposed to having the wolf creds be drip fed to as at a far more steady rate, but if that was what the thread was about, it wasn't presented very well.

[Xylia]

I don't understand why we need to make them seasonal at all. Just put the rewards there, and get rid of the limited time stuff.

[ShortCat]

25 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, you just listed the various ways in which they can progress. 

In case you misread it, the OP doesn't mention or refer to the wolf creds at all, just "higher tier rewards". Nothing else, just that. 

My comment stands, should the very casual and utterly new players really be getting higher tier rewards? Not really. 

I'm not opposed to having the wolf creds be drip fed to as at a far more steady rate, but if that was what the thread was about, it wasn't presented very well.

Theoretically, there could be a reward system achievable for every player with meaningfull rewards for all players. This system however, is far from it. Umbra Forma for a newby, hell no. Even we should not be able to get that one.

Now to the next issue, that was not worded by the OP, but manifests itself by the very existence of this thread. A player starts a game and sees a checklist he won't be able to complete and rewards, he won't be able to reach. All of them on a timer. This is demotivating, as you instantly feel left-behind. Not good for retention.
Now to wolf creddits. Those are only explained in DevWorkshop, update notes refer to them in best Ineception style, only apperent to frequent forum users. I bet OP does not know about them and thinks evergreen rewards are all the rewards new system offers. This reflects current communication, ingame tutorials and new player experience nightmares.

[Xylia]

Yeah, I was looking through the thing and I had to look it up on Wiki to even get WTF was going on, like "How do you get Wolf Creds?" and apparently you ONLY get them through ranking up and no other way and I'm like "well that's kinda lame..."

 

So if you want, say, Nitain Extract... the ONLY way to get it is to rank up 2-3 times until you get some creds?

Heck, I used to be able to get the occasional extract just casually playing, but now I gotta grind grind grind to get it.

[gabuchan]

4 hours ago, Xaxma said:

 Hopefully it gives them incentive to research it more then in their own time. If you want something, you go and get it. Nothing is handed to you. If you don't know something, ask someone, or visit the wiki, or explore the game. 

OP has a terrible point. If you put nothing into the game, you should get nothing back. If you don't care to learn, why even play Warframe at all? 

Yeah I get that. OP's main point really isn't very good. I do have to agree with him that some things could be better explained/introduced. I agree with you that nothing should be handed to you, but new player accessibility can still be improved on.

[RaidenFirewing]

9 minutes ago, Xylia said:

Heck, I used to be able to get the occasional extract just casually playing, but now I gotta grind grind grind to get it.

You get 5 Nitain Extract for 15 Wolf Creds. That means if you get 50 wolf creds per week, so around three to four rankups per week, you can get 15 nitain each week. That's 2 nitain a day.

Now, 3 Rankups is quite alot, as you need almost all challenges to do so. But even if you double it and say take 2 weeks for it (which is reasonable), that's one nitain a day. I haven't gotten that much with the old alert system, and I consider myself a rather avid player.

 

I think the main issue is one of immediacy.

In the old system, rewards were immediate. You did a mission, you got stuff. Now it takes longer to earn things, but it's more consistent. With the old system, you had to be lucky to get what you wanted. Now you can actively work towards it. So in the end, I think the overall pace in which you get nitain stays the same, but instead of irregular progress, you have a more steady progress now. At least, that is the intention behind it I assume.

I do agree however that I think the wolfcreds and how they are acquired need some tweaks, maybe more of a slower, more constant dripfeed than the large drops they are now.

[Xylia]

45 minutes ago, RaidenFirewing said:

I think the main issue is one of immediacy.

Another issue is the time limit. I loathe time limits.

"GOTTA DO IT NOW BEFORE IT'S GONE!!!!"

I hate that. Like, seriously hate that. It always leaves a sour taste in my mouth because it's so unnecessary. I mean, I can understand weekly resets on the quests to get the standing, but I really don't think the Creds themselves really needed the 10 month viability and then poof they're gone and the rewards are shuffled right out the door.

That, and I don't think the system had to be so convoluted in the first place. Couldn't they just make a straight up "Do the thing, get points, spend points" system?

[mrbubblepants]

Vet player here. I agree with most of the negative feedback on this new system. Im at 1500+ hrs in this game and I was really hoping this system would offer me something to do, but unfortunately its turned into a once a week game now. What we really need are more daily/hourly  less weekly. I just finished all the current alerts in about an hour and now what? I dont mind the length f time it takes to get to rank 30. I just want something to bring me back. For me I love running missions when i have a goal. New weapon? Great lets see what it can do! As it stands now i have all frames, forma'd the ones I like and have leveld 99% of the weapons. Iv played all the content, hell I even gave the orb mother a shot. But iv reached the point where I have nothing to do, nothing left to accomplish that I want. I dont need fancy rewards just something to do that lasts more than the time it takes to place a gliph.

[Simca1640]

I feel like the anonymous discord poster failed to hit all of the key points as to why this system is so bad for new players.

[ShortCat]

13 hours ago, RaidenFirewing said:

You get 5 Nitain Extract for 15 Wolf Creds. That means if you get 50 wolf creds per week, so around three to four rankups per week, you can get 15 nitain each week. That's 2 nitain a day.

Nitain gain seems really nice on the surface level. So, you got your 15 Nitain and then what? Auras, Helmets, weapon BPs etc? 15 Nitain a week sounds great, until you realize this is all you get for a week.

[Xylia]

5 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Nitain gain seems really nice on the surface level. So, you got your 15 Nitain and then what? Auras, Helmets, weapon BPs etc? 15 Nitain a week sounds great, until you realize this is all you get for a week.

 

^^

This. I remember doing alerts for 150 Oxium, Neurodes, Sensor Modules, Endo, etc. Heck there were times I even did a few 10k credit alerts when I was bored, walked away with 25-35k Credits by the time I was done.

I don't see any of that listed in Nightwave.

And also, HOW THE FRICK am I supposed to do the "Scan 25 things" objective when everything is already scanned and it won't let me scan something I've already scanned?

 

EDIT: Also... how do you figure 60% participation when there's 30 ranks, and 10(ish)  weeks? This means you need three rankups per week and there's no way in hell you're getting that by doing 60% of the objectives. You'd have to spam as many of the daily objectives as you can, logging on every day to do your daily objectives or you'll never make it.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Xylia

[Kontrollo]

39 minutes ago, Xylia said:

And also, HOW THE FRICK am I supposed to do the "Scan 25 things" objective when everything is already scanned and it won't let me scan something I've already scanned?

Huh? I've scanned 25 things that were already in my codex, though (green)? They should still be scannable, how else could you get more Threshcones etc. or Kavat genetic thingies? 🤔

 

42 minutes ago, Xylia said:

EDIT: Also... how do you figure 60% participation when there's 30 ranks, and 10(ish)  weeks? This means you need three rankups per week and there's no way in hell you're getting that by doing 60% of the objectives. You'd have to spam as many of the daily objectives as you can, logging on every day to do your daily objectives or you'll never make it. 

I already have rank 3 within two days, and still two weekly bounty to go. Also remember that this week is a short one, because the update dropped Wednesday.

[maddragonmaster]

honestly if i would t say or at least suggest for something i would advice them to add set of acts that request you to run with something in your inventory in at least 1 to a handful of missions to at least test how well are you at utilizing your set of weapons you have collected. that way it sort of tests you in some way or form without heavily hurting other players. in a game like this i think the most effective way of testing someones capabilities is to make sure they are good at what weapon they are giving. this is just me speaking logically, not sure how i feel with this idea. i have a few weapons and frames at various levels of work with some of my favs having more effort built in, i guess it would give me something to due and to work on.

[THE_ZEEK]

Where are the spartans when you need em..

 

its probably a sign of the times..

Do the work.. get the rewards..

[Xzorn]

I could probably go back a long way in my post history on Topics complaining about RNG and how we should have a token system.

Well here's your token system.

Just like all token systems the progression is far slower but steady. Removing any luck factors.

Right place right time is replaced by shelf life & time gating. RNG is replace by an increased avg farm time.

[Xylia]

2 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I could probably go back a long way in my post history on Topics complaining about RNG and how we should have a token system.

Well here's your token system.

Just like all token systems the progression is far slower but steady. Removing any luck factors.

Right place right time is replaced by shelf life & time gating. RNG is replace by an increased avg farm time.

I wanted a token system, but not one that has a stupid time limit and limited availability.

The kind of token system I'd want is simply "here's a list of things you can do this week, and you can use the standing to buy from a list of these items".

That would have been perfect.

[Ottofyre]

On ‎2019‎-‎03‎-‎01 at 9:59 AM, Xylia said:

 

And also, HOW THE FRICK am I supposed to do the "Scan 25 things" objective when everything is already scanned and it won't let me scan something I've already scanned?

 

Synthesis scanner from Cephalon Simaris lets you scan things you've already scanned. You must have been trying to use a codex scanner.

[Tsukinoki]

On 2019-03-01 at 7:59 AM, Xylia said:

And also, HOW THE FRICK am I supposed to do the "Scan 25 things" objective when everything is already scanned and it won't let me scan something I've already scanned?

Synthesis scanner?
Also find plants to scan, even with the base scanner you can rescan them, otherwise plant extracts would be unfarmable.

Easily doable.

On 2019-03-01 at 7:59 AM, Xylia said:

EDIT: Also... how do you figure 60% participation when there's 30 ranks, and 10(ish)  weeks? This means you need three rankups per week and there's no way in hell you're getting that by doing 60% of the objectives. You'd have to spam as many of the daily objectives as you can, logging on every day to do your daily objectives or you'll never make it.

You are aware that every daily objective lasts 3 days, right?  Meaning you don't have to log in "every day" in order to get your dailies done.
And 3 rank ups per week should be reasonable considering that this was a short week, meaning we missed a number of dailies that will be there for all future weeks, simple as that.

On 2019-03-01 at 9:34 AM, Xzorn said:

I could probably go back a long way in my post history on Topics complaining about RNG and how we should have a token system.

Well here's your token system.

Just like all token systems the progression is far slower but steady. Removing any luck factors.

Right place right time is replaced by shelf life & time gating. RNG is replace by an increased avg farm time.

Exactly this.
But people seem to think that a token system meant "But I can only do the bare minimum and get everything in a few days with no RNG involved!" and stupidly clung to that idea...its a huge case of "we told you so" going on...