Wisp Review/Early feedback

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

21 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Personal preference mate , i enjoy things that make sense (within the context and constraints of the story) ,

i have not really addressed or raised concerns about power level or utility of the frame i prefer to test it or observe from experience before commenting about that aspect.

It is indeed DEs game and they can deploy whatever powers they want on whatever frame they want.

 

But i cannot agree with your first statement , are you implying everyone must like whatever DE puts in front of them as long as it is more powerful than their current most powerful item (or atleast as good as)? not sure how that is funny that's just sad in my books (and needs a separate discussion of frame kit synergy and scaling).

 the player base has always provided feedback , but weve come a long way from constructive criticism to being spoiled and complaining about everything lately in many rant , rage threads. its a perceived aspect of self entitlement to bash everything with or without much grounds  that ive sarted to really get put off by my fellow tenno in forums.

example

-rage threads on trinity strega in reference to foot binding (due to small feet),  oberon feyarch , no rage thread exact small feet design used in layout, as it was the artists style. both designs show it prior and only got rage on release of stregas

Spoiler

trinity had plenty of salt on this topic and it was a perceived subjection of footbinding which it wasnt. now im not saying the topic is equal to this debate , more that people biased views can influence how they react and want view something in a way it isnt or ever was designed for.

i have plenty of examples of these types of situations appearing , but the besides that type we also have vocal minority and quite majority as a player base, what you have in mind might not always be the best for the community as a whole .

onto the topic of wisp in her kit /design. ect is one players started wanting to tear her apart and throw her parts onto ember like the second her powers were demoed , this was already a bad start to constructive criticism, in regards to this frame

im mot saying to blindly accept everything but as we saw with khora, de has a design and theme for a frame they want to put into the game. given that they tweak and alter till that frame meets the criteria they had in mind , but the theme is the key point.

ive played plenty of underpowered frames since ive started MAG , OBERON, ect when they were trash kits  . i made them work as its how you play a frame and design its build that makes it function. later they get tweaks and are buffed to useful. so plenty of criticism and feedback help shape frames to reach their potential

as for wisp i can already see a tactical use for and her own nitch , stealth mixed with a flared of destruction . something akin to ash .  but more direct and indirect in how you apply her kit

layout some base cast 1s , when approaching enemies cast her 2 in air (cloak passives)  , cast 3 , when 3 afflicts cast 4 = grofit , it dosnt take rocket science 

she can be useful in interception spy, assassination ect as she is, its how you apply the powers. my topic of scaling isnt for pure DPS or power, its balance. weve already seen she has a glass jaw and requires 1 and 2 for surviving (probably aviator would help) , and factoring in the ability to cloak in air, would help her survivability. example frames like this are nova, banshee

wisps new 3 looks to CC on hit, along with it stated scaling damage it deals to each target they afflict as they jump, using 4 to kill targets and spread this makes it very effective to wipe out groups and scale damage among them. duration, range, strength balancing will probably need to be kept in balance for this capability to be maximized i think

 

 

[Mu_Gera]

What if the passive also worked on evasions as well? I feel like it doesn't offer much and you'll only get the most out of it if you use the new air time mods if it only works while in the air.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Does Irrbloss grow plants or turn invisible when she jumps? Also as you have described if she was like the human torch you would be describing ember (or revenant) , not wisp.

The naming could have been better but is not really a major concern, using a term over generations may associate it with things that it was not intended for if used in conjunction. 

100% may not be what you want to say when you say two different concepts in the same sentence 50/50, 70/30,80/20 would be better.

Also any skill of any frame may be considered a portal usage of some sort. And an association to her 3 being a portal is weak at best. Give me a skill and I will tell you how it is from a different dimension and indirectly a portal.

A light bender would indeed be more suitable but is not present in her 1, (her 3 is still sketchy on the light usage could just as well be sound or mental waves).

Most forest folk in norse/germanic lore can go invisible whenever they chose, or hide in plain site looking like one of us. Even trolls can do it in some tales, but it often depends on the troll. Tusse steins in norwegian stories are often trolls hiding in plain site, looking like a rock. And sometimes, like in the story of Svensk Henrik (Henric the swede) the trolls have hidden their lair in the shape of a house in the woods. So when Henrik is fleeing from the lawmen he stumbles onto this house and pounds the door hoping the people will hide him, only to realise too late it was a so called Tusse Stein (a troll rock) and not a house. They used to be called the hidden people long ago. And no, I'm not saying they have powers like human torch, just that they look like him or well her if you look at Nova (not the Xandarian one). Regarding the plant growing, no, probably not, but then again as been said before we arent looking at a 1:1 interpritation or inspiration from any one single creature.

Also, if there are two things present on every single skill, it is indeed 100% representation of both, not 50/50. 50/50 would be if 1+2 were light and 3+4 were portals, but as it is every skill is both a portal and a light inspired skill.

I also doubt that you can apply a portal to any skill of any frame. Regulators and Talons for instance, pull off a portal connection on either of those. #3 is a dimensional breach i.e a portal (gateway) to a dimension of some kind.

Her 1 has motes inside, tiny little fragments of light or matter. And aslong as DE says her 3 is light, then it is light and not sound or mental waves.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, F8ted said:

Need I remind that Druid Lore is largely lost due to lack of written record, leading unfortunately the best records being the establishment of Christianity's criticism. Rome visited many cultures and bastardized their lore with Christian analogues. Nordic lore is no different, being kennings are the rough equivalent of what Christmas Jingles are to Christian history. Very few kept such traditions alive after the spread of Christianity and the loss of empire, but in the traditions of both are some remnants of their history. To pigeonhole back into Will-o-the-wisps, or explanations for swamp gas, remember these are natural occurrences in swamps. These could not occur in areas that the Scandinavian folk, nor the English Folk could live. Unlike in the tropical areas, such locations are viciously inhospitable due to conditions of freezing that never occur in the tropics. As such, these were always in areas that would be meant to be avoided or the consequences may be dire. Not a single one of them died from heat or burning, which one would presuppose the "Wise men" the fledgling Christians described the Druids as being having been at least partially knowledgeable about nature of their disappearance. Indeed many would be simply lost to death, sometimes found caught in mud, sometimes preserved for centuries within said mud.

Just because we have an explaination for it now that pinpoints them to specific regions it doesnt mean they were isolated to those regions back then. Tales and myths wander, they had no need to tie them to specific places like we do now because they didnt have the science to tell them that. Sure they have originated around an area with a swamp, but it doesnt mean the story about the creature stayed there. A reason why they were often connected to fresh graves aswell as seen dancing around fires during celebrations (although that could be because people were dead drunk or high on mushrooms and thought the fire was alive).  

The name of the creature such as the Irrbloss didnt come from the scientific explaination of ignited swamp gas, but the scientific explaination of ignited swamp gas got its name from the ancient creature. I'm also not sure what the way of dying has to do with it since I cant recall ever saying or implying that they killed people through fire, I just said they were beings of fire and that the Sol Gate could be seen as "leading them to their death" in a perverted WF way.  And as with all other spirit/forest folk in scandinavia, it wasnt uncommon to see them as the cause of accidents. So it wouldnt surprise me if the Irrbloss was seen as the reason when a house, stable or other thing burnt down, just as it wasnt uncommon to blame the tomte or vätte when things went missing or your livestock got sick. You simply hadnt payed tribute as you should or you had moved onto their territory without showing proper respect.

I mean there are alot of stories from all over up here. Heck just a few miles from here lies a massive rock in the middle of a field. The rock is split in half and said to be thrown there by a giant to scare away the first christians that planned to build a church there. And further west along the coast there is a placed that is said to have been bombarded by giants from the island Bornholm, throwing them straight over the sound to kill the christian invasion force that at the time landed in what was the northeastern most part of the dane kingdom.

[CeejAttack]

With regards to wisp and honestly, any other frame past or future... I am not too concerned with how specific DE stays to the theme that inspired the frame.  I think a lot of people tend to feel that the theme needs to be exact and not stray one little bit, otherwise it's trash. ("DE says '...is portal themed', then every ability must have portals!!!")  That's a bit extreme.  What it all comes down to is if the frame is FUN TO PLAY.  Is wisp fun to play?  Too soon to tell, of course.  But that's what really matters.  If DE decides in the future to release a frame that has no specific theme and is collection of many different ideas, people would rage and declare it a "mess".  Even if that frame was super fun and efficient to play.  We shouldn't lose sight of what is important here.  DE tries to take a concept/theme/idea and turn it into something new and fresh.  Sure, they don't always succeed in this effort, but no one's perfect. 

All in all, I'm excited to get my hands on Wisp.  She looks fun and interesting.  People like to compare each ability to frames that are already in the game stating it's the same as "this ability" or is a worse version of "that ability", but all DE is doing is giving players choices.  Having many options that offer similar things with some smaller differences is a good thing.  Wisp may not tailor to what you're looking for when it comes to CC, healing, dps, etc...  but she will be perfect for many players in the community.  That's a success in view.

Keep up the good work DE.  You're doing great and it's clear you work very hard and care a lot about the content you release.  Thank you for so many amazing years in this free to play game!

Edited May 21, 2019 by CeejAttack

[0_The_F00l]

12 hours ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

 the player base has always provided feedback , but weve come a long way from constructive criticism to being spoiled and complaining about everything lately in many rant , rage threads. its a perceived aspect of self entitlement to bash everything with or without much grounds  that ive sarted to really get put off by my fellow tenno in forums.

example

-rage threads on trinity strega in reference to foot binding (due to small feet),  oberon feyarch , no rage thread exact small feet design used in layout, as it was the artists style. both designs show it prior and only got rage on release of stregas

  Reveal hidden contents

trinity had plenty of salt on this topic and it was a perceived subjection of footbinding which it wasnt. now im not saying the topic is equal to this debate , more that people biased views can influence how they react and want view something in a way it isnt or ever was designed for.

i have plenty of examples of these types of situations appearing , but the besides that type we also have vocal minority and quite majority as a player base, what you have in mind might not always be the best for the community as a whole .

onto the topic of wisp in her kit /design. ect is one players started wanting to tear her apart and throw her parts onto ember like the second her powers were demoed , this was already a bad start to constructive criticism, in regards to this frame

im mot saying to blindly accept everything but as we saw with khora, de has a design and theme for a frame they want to put into the game. given that they tweak and alter till that frame meets the criteria they had in mind , but the theme is the key point.

ive played plenty of underpowered frames since ive started MAG , OBERON, ect when they were trash kits  . i made them work as its how you play a frame and design its build that makes it function. later they get tweaks and are buffed to useful. so plenty of criticism and feedback help shape frames to reach their potential

as for wisp i can already see a tactical use for and her own nitch , stealth mixed with a flared of destruction . something akin to ash .  but more direct and indirect in how you apply her kit

layout some base cast 1s , when approaching enemies cast her 2 in air (cloak passives)  , cast 3 , when 3 afflicts cast 4 = grofit , it dosnt take rocket science 

she can be useful in interception spy, assassination ect as she is, its how you apply the powers. my topic of scaling isnt for pure DPS or power, its balance. weve already seen she has a glass jaw and requires 1 and 2 for surviving (probably aviator would help) , and factoring in the ability to cloak in air, would help her survivability. example frames like this are nova, banshee

wisps new 3 looks to CC on hit, along with it stated scaling damage it deals to each target they afflict as they jump, using 4 to kill targets and spread this makes it very effective to wipe out groups and scale damage among them. duration, range, strength balancing will probably need to be kept in balance for this capability to be maximized i think

Me: this frame doesn't really feel like it's made of a single concept but more like a patchwork of things DE just wanted to showcase cause it will look pretty. Not sure if it even has a theme. 

You: the showcase can be used effectively I am sure of it. 

We are debating different things friend, it's like I am saying "it doesn't look blue" and you say "but it's round",

notice that I have not talked about the effectiveness of the kit at all. 

and also the first few paragraphs about you complaining about complainers isn't even relevant to the main topic, feels like you just have a bias for feetless legs. 

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Most forest folk in norse/germanic lore can go invisible whenever they chose, or hide in plain site looking like one of us. Even trolls can do it in some tales, but it often depends on the troll. Tusse steins in norwegian stories are often trolls hiding in plain site, looking like a rock. And sometimes, like in the story of Svensk Henrik (Henric the swede) the trolls have hidden their lair in the shape of a house in the woods. So when Henrik is fleeing from the lawmen he stumbles onto this house and pounds the door hoping the people will hide him, only to realise too late it was a so called Tusse Stein (a troll rock) and not a house. They used to be called the hidden people long ago. And no, I'm not saying they have powers like human torch, just that they look like him or well her if you look at Nova (not the Xandarian one). Regarding the plant growing, no, probably not, but then again as been said before we arent looking at a 1:1 interpritation or inspiration from any one single creature.

We are referencing the will o the wisp, if the theme was generic Norwegian spirit Frankenstein with a portal gun taped to its forehead then your statements would be right, 

You are the one that made that statement about not being 1:1 to a single creature, I never really agreed to it. And again by that logic any frame could be anything mixed with anything else.

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I also doubt that you can apply a portal to any skill of any frame. Regulators and Talons for instance, pull off a portal connection on either of those. #3 is a dimensional breach i.e a portal (gateway) to a dimension of some kind..

Challenge accepted. 

Regulators: Mesa opens a portal inside her guns to the arsenal/bullet dimension, as long as she has energy she keeps getting bullets. 

Talons: her talons are the roots of the ygddrisil they absorb the life force of the enemies. But the roots would wither if cut from the tree, Garuda uses her power of blood to create a portal on her wrists, she keeps feeding the portal with her own blood and the blood of her enemies. 

Didn't take me 10 seconds to think that up. 

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Her 1 has motes inside, tiny little fragments of light or matter. And aslong as DE says her 3 is light, then it is light and not sound or mental waves.

Matter is not the same as light, (u less you go into wave theory) 

And of course light inside a closed box, obviously it must be light themed why didn't I think of that. 

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

.Also, if there are two things present on every single skill, it is indeed 100% representation of both, not 50/50. 50/50 would be if 1+2 were light and 3+4 were portals, but as it is every skill is both a portal and a light inspired skill.

I just explained above portals is a weak concept. And her 1 being light based is a stretch. So disagreeing with your base assumption that all her abilities are light and portal based. 

[Yousho]

On 2019-05-19 at 7:24 PM, Zeclem said:

"dont seem to be that useful" again, i wanna see where you got its numbers. calling a frame trash over baseless assumptions is stupid, and thats what you are doing. 

The numbers could be great, but that kind of ability just doesn't work in most of Warframe. 

[SneakyErvin]

9 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

We are referencing the will o the wisp, if the theme was generic Norwegian spirit Frankenstein with a portal gun taped to its forehead then your statements would be right, 

You are the one that made that statement about not being 1:1 to a single creature, I never really agreed to it. And again by that logic any frame could be anything mixed with anything else.

Challenge accepted. 

Regulators: Mesa opens a portal inside her guns to the arsenal/bullet dimension, as long as she has energy she keeps getting bullets. 

Talons: her talons are the roots of the ygddrisil they absorb the life force of the enemies. But the roots would wither if cut from the tree, Garuda uses her power of blood to create a portal on her wrists, she keeps feeding the portal with her own blood and the blood of her enemies. 

Didn't take me 10 seconds to think that up. 

Matter is not the same as light, (u less you go into wave theory) 

And of course light inside a closed box, obviously it must be light themed why didn't I think of that. 

I just explained above portals is a weak concept. And her 1 being light based is a stretch. So disagreeing with your base assumption that all her abilities are light and portal based. 

I'm referencing wisps in general. DE as far as I know never stated specifically Will-o-the-wisp though.

Most frames are. I dont think there is a single frame that follows their name/theme to 100%. Name some frames that are perfectly designed based on their theme. I can think of maybe a handful.

Grasping for straws with those "portal" thoughts on several levels. You are missing the point that Warframes arent tied to the actual mythological things DE may draw inspirations from. There is no world tree to open portals to, just as Wisp doesnt open portals to any spirit dimension. You are really having a hard time accepting and understanding what the themes really imply. Nekros doesnt raise the dead, he uses nano technology to patch up and control the dead or destroyed. It is all just advanced tech and void manipulation.

I'd guess that depends on the matter. Here we are talking about materilizing things from the void to do whatever we want. If those motes are tiny particles of light then so be it.

We'll have to see how it turns out when she is released. 3/4 skills fitting 2 themes would be pretty good, along with a passive that also follows it.

Also a side note. People (you) take it a bit too seriously anyway. Have you forgotten that WF already has it's own unique take on wisps implemented in the game, it's been like that since the release of PoE. Same as with how it classifies the use of motes.

Edited May 21, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[Zeclem]

8 hours ago, Yousho said:

The numbers could be great, but that kind of ability just doesn't work in most of Warframe. 

there are tons of examples where they do work but k. 

[0_The_F00l]

18 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm referencing wisps in general. DE as far as I know never stated specifically Will-o-the-wisp though.

Wisps are any tiny thing do we really need to go into it? Again? , I see you referencing multiple generic folklore with no relation other than that it is folklore and hoping it's coherent enough, it's not in my books. 

20 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Most frames are. I dont think there is a single frame that follows their name/theme to 100%. Name some frames that are perfectly designed based on their theme. I can think of maybe a handful.

Saying there are no frame that is 100% and then saying there are a handful, make a decision cannot be both. 

I can easily name frames that are completely suitable and follow a good consistent thematic design across their kit, Nezha, chroma, ash, Frost, ember, Saryn, Vauban, Octavia, banshee, Harrow, zephyr, Mesa, excalibur, Ivara, Atlas, hydroid etc. 

At the same time there are just as many inconsistent frames, and wisp is just the latest. 

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Grasping for straws with those "portal" thoughts on several levels. You are missing the point that Warframes arent tied to the actual mythological things DE may draw inspirations from. There is no world tree to open portals to, just as Wisp doesnt open portals to any spirit dimension. You are really having a hard time accepting and understanding what the themes really imply. Nekros doesnt raise the dead, he uses nano technology to patch up and control the dead or destroyed. It is all just advanced tech and void manipulation.

You asked me to use a portal against specific skills, I used em and they are far more viable or at least as believable than how wisp is using them to grow plants (the skill description of wisp 1 literally says it is from another dimension who is to say there is no dimension for the world tree? ) .  You are just sour that I thought of it when you believed I couldn't.

The point was any skill can be called a portal based ability and is a weak justification to just accept cause they have run out of ideas. 

And using a completely different frame, which does not even have any relation to the topic, I wonder who is grasping straws here. Nekros might as well be creating a portal to the dead energy dimension, you see how stupid the whole "portal theme" is? Anything can be a portal themed ability. 

I am glad you agree that applying portals is just dumb as a means to justify an ability, now apply that same thought and logic to the current discussion. And tell me applying portal concept to wisp is an intelligent idea.

The problem isn't  me understanding, problem is you providing a suitable explanation so I can agree to your point of view, this is a discussion not a debate, I already mentioned we could agree to disagree but you decided to try and convince me to your views anyway and have not succeeded so far. 

40 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'd guess that depends on the matter. Here we are talking about materilizing things from the void to do whatever we want. If those motes are tiny particles of light then so be it. 

Last video I saw there are no particles of light, just a pitcher plant thing on her 1. If it was a literal instance of light (like the sunburst dojo decoration or the power conversion or health conversion effects then you would be partially right, but it's not) 

46 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

We'll have to see how it turns out when she is released. 3/4 skills fitting 2 themes would be pretty good, along with a passive that also follows it.

Not sure if the release will affect thematic consistency only the effectiveness of the skills,

You still haven't been able to explain a suitable theme in a single sentence unless the sentence is" generic germanic folklore frankenstein figure with a portal taped to its forehead " In which case you would be right. 

52 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Also a side note. People (you) take it a bit too seriously anyway. Have you forgotten that WF already has it's own unique take on wisps implemented in the game, it's been like that since the release of PoE. Same as with how it classifies the use of motes.

Classifying people based on one conversation, does not suit a civil discussion (which I thought this has been so far). I always keep my discussions to the point and within context, my articulation may make me seem serious but I do not see that as an issue, are you concerned that a serious discussion is a problem? You are free to walk away if you do not wish to continue. 

Assuming you mean the cetus wisp, it floats and then it flies away if you get too close, appears to be made of sentient bones or stones , does not grow plants or shoot lasers or create sun portals, was used in creation of some parts and accessories. 

I fail to see how it is relevant, care to explain? Or are you trying to add another theme On top of light, portal, germanic folklore beings and forest elf?

[Yousho]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

there are tons of examples where they do work but k. 

 

Go on? 

The only people who can put down stationary things and have it be good are Frost and Limbo, and to a lesser extent, Gara. And they all function drastically differently to Wisp's deployables and even THEN they're only useful in specific modes. 

[Yousho]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

there are tons of examples where they do work but k. 

 

Go on? 

The only people who can put down stationary things and have it be good are Frost and Limbo, and to a lesser extent, Gara. And they all function drastically differently to Wisp's deployables and even THEN they're only useful in specific modes. 

[Yousho]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

there are tons of examples where they do work but k. 

 

Go on? 

The only people who can put down stationary things and have it be good are Frost and Limbo, and to a lesser extent, Gara. And they all function drastically differently to Wisp's deployables and even THEN they're only useful in specific modes. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Classifying people based on one conversation, does not suit a civil discussion (which I thought this has been so far). I always keep my discussions to the point and within context, my articulation may make me seem serious but I do not see that as an issue, are you concerned that a serious discussion is a problem? You are free to walk away if you do not wish to continue.

I'd call BS on that though. You are certainly not keeping it within context. You cant even accept that there is a wider view on the theme centered around a wisp because it would break your whole criticism. And this is especially true since we talk about how a wisp theme is depicted in a game. Even in many fantasy games it is very wide (and accepted by most) and this isnt even that type of genre.

I mean you claim you keep things within context when you suddenly go and place outside-lore (game lore that is) into your arguments. Things completely unrelated to WF itself, like your Yggdrasil comment. I'm trying to argue how something can fit within the WF lore and still have a concept/theme from something else without having to be that exact thing. An actual wisp for instance wouldnt fit in WF because there is no lore whatsoever that indicates that religious myths and legends are true in that universe. So the thing comes down to "what can be done with the theme here?". 

As for the portals (and even the motes which I'll get back to) they are actually visible when she uses her skills. It is indeed a theme for the frame to explain how she gets the stuff to work as they do. Where does the portal lead? Some dimension, the void or similar. And regarding the motes, you have probably missed that there are things popping out from inside the plant pods when friends/enemies get near.

Anyways. In the end, what some may find acceptable and appropriate enough for the theme is the same here as with comic book characters. There simply is no right or wrong regarding what a person think. I personally think wisp fits well with the theme, both having powers that justifies the name aswell as having powers that do fit the portal and light themes they decided on.

As for the frames you mentioned. Yeah I can see Nezha, Ash, Frost, Ember, Octavia, Harrow, Zephyr, Mesa, Ivara and Hydroid being pretty spot on. Howerver Chroma, Banshee, Saryn, Atlas and Vauban really lose their themes in my mind.

Chroma has the look and maybe his #1 that implies dragon, his #2 and #3 really doesnt speak much to me regarding any theme, #4 fits with the story of Chroma from the codex. Banshee just got lost badly somewhere. Where is the whole frightening Banshee thing going on with her? It is like they got more inspired by Banshee from Marvel than actual banshees. Saryn is also missing the theme. I would never have guessed plants was her theme, my mind went directly to a plague demon when I saw her and played her. Atlas is simply too generic and bland, nothing that actually gets my mind going towards the greek/roman pantheons and the man holding the world on his shoulders. Then Vauban who is supposedly inspired by a genius master war-smith/engineer kinda misses the mark too. No part of his kit screams engineer. Gadgeteer maybe, but that is about it. Where are the defense turrets, the portable defense covers, the repair stations and possible robot/war-engine minions?

Then when it comes to frames like Frost and Ember, it isnt exactly hard to be 100% spot on. You need to hit two very simple marks, one being cold/ice/frost/snow, the other heat/fire. With the others you mentioned though, they are really pieces of art down to their their kits, looks and mechanics involved. Their themes are self explained. I have one question though, what exactly is Excals theme? I mean is he supposed to be some specific type of swordsman, a knight or what?

Edited May 21, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[selig_fay]

il y a 3 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

Then Vauban who is supposedly inspired by a genius master war-smith/engineer kinda misses the mark too. No part of his kit screams engineer. Gadgeteer maybe, but that is about it. Where are the defense turrets, the portable defense covers, the repair stations and possible robot/war-engine minions?

Give him a tank with a big gun. 😁

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, zhellon said:

Give him a tank with a big gun. 😁

Hell yes! They should give him some #*!%ed up minions resembling the tank Reavers from Marvel. Basically human upper bodies with cybernetic augmentations and their lower body is a tank. Just make it warframey and instead of held guns or rocket launchers just give the thing a big frakin torso that is a massive cannon.

Heck, NeoCore is doing something like that with their upcoming Tech-Adept summoner class in the Martyr arpg. Two big ass gun platforms of death as summons.

edit: Or better yet, let us equip them with guns we own!

Edited May 21, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[selig_fay]

Vauban umbra 

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, Yousho said:

Go on? 

The only people who can put down stationary things and have it be good are Frost and Limbo, and to a lesser extent, Gara. And they all function drastically differently to Wisp's deployables and even THEN they're only useful in specific modes. 

dat 3 quotes.

nidus, oberon, garuda, hydroid, khora, mag, octavia, saryn. with that three added, its already the vast majority of frames with deployables. there are also some less obvious ones like vaubans bastille and ivaras cloak arrow.

frost, limbo and gara are useful in majority of content with their deployables as well, not just in a few specific cases.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Zeclem

[selig_fay]

il y a 1 minute, Zeclem a dit :

frost, limbo and gara are useful in majority of content with their deployables as well, not just in a few specific cases.

In most content all frames are useful. You can even play with an operator and be effective.

Another thing is that Gara will be useful always and in all situations while frost will be useless if you do not need to create a protection zone and you use corrosive auras. Gara will always help his team better than frost, while requiring less effort. Sorry, her passive blinds her enemies just because she exists. I understand that frost is not so bad, but he could be better.

[Zeclem]

Just now, zhellon said:

In most content all frames are useful. You can even play with an operator and be effective.

Another thing is that Gara will be useful always and in all situations while frost will be useless if you do not need to create a protection zone and you use corrosive auras. Gara will always help his team better than frost, while requiring less effort. Sorry, her passive blinds her enemies just because she exists. I understand that frost is not so bad, but he could be better.

frost is a bit better at protecting objectives than gara, and has an aoe armor shred. thats pretty much it. 

[selig_fay]

à l’instant, Zeclem a dit :

frost is a bit better at protecting objectives than gara, and has an aoe armor shred. thats pretty much it. 

Well, frost is easier in terms of increasing the protection of the dome. Yes it is. And removing the armor is a good support. (Especially when enemies don't have it.) But the problem is that we still have two abilities that, to put it mildly, are never used for their intended purpose.

Of course, there may be some sort of secret about these abilities, which only true frost mainers, who sit in dark basements under the air conditioner, know to get better into the role, but the truth is, I do not see much point.

[(PSN)sonicizanagi]

Anybody else think wisp is just a new light frame, instead of a portal frame?

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

16 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Me: this frame doesn't really feel like it's made of a single concept but more like a patchwork of things DE just wanted to showcase cause it will look pretty. Not sure if it even has a theme. 

You: the showcase can be used effectively I am sure of it. 

We are debating different things friend, it's like I am saying "it doesn't look blue" and you say "but it's round",

notice that I have not talked about the effectiveness of the kit at all. 

and also the first few paragraphs about you complaining about complainers isn't even relevant to the main topic, feels like you just have a bias for feetless legs. 

 

the feet thing was an example of how community gets ragy about random stuff 

the concept itself is simple , theme is sun  and ghost mixed 

[selig_fay]

il y a 56 minutes, (PS4)sonicizanagi a dit :

Anybody else think wisp is just a new light frame, instead of a portal frame?

I just think that Wisp could complement the lor of the warframe forest theme. Become an addition to Oberon and Titania. 

[0_The_F00l]

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'd call BS on that though. You are certainly not keeping it within context. You cant even accept that there is a wider view on the theme centered around a wisp because it would break your whole criticism. And this is especially true since we talk about how a wisp theme is depicted in a game. Even in many fantasy games it is very wide (and accepted by most) and this isnt even that type of genre.

I mean you claim you keep things within context when you suddenly go and place outside-lore (game lore that is) into your arguments. Things completely unrelated to WF itself, like your Yggdrasil comment. I'm trying to argue how something can fit within the WF lore and still have a concept/theme from something else without having to be that exact thing. An actual wisp for instance wouldnt fit in WF because there is no lore whatsoever that indicates that religious myths and legends are true in that universe. So the thing comes down to "what can be done with the theme here?". 

Am I the one that is talking about folklore outside warframe or you? Yggdrasil is just one example and was only to prove that anything could be associated with portals, call it with any other name or change it to a bone dimension if you wish and it still is fine. Yggdrasil is not the main topic, you gave example of folklore you thought was suitable but is not in game I gave another one. You opened that door with talk of forest folk, I just expanded on it. 

 

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As for the portals (and even the motes which I'll get back to) they are actually visible when she uses her skills. It is indeed a theme for the frame to explain how she gets the stuff to work as they do. Where does the portal lead? Some dimension, the void or similar. And regarding the motes, you have probably missed that there are things popping out from inside the plant pods when friends/enemies get near.

There is the stationary leafy thing and the floating pitcher plant thing, I haven't seen  the pitcher plant give off any light so far, maybe with the final version, but I doubt it

And coming to mote please expand on your thinking , last time I checked mote was a particle of dust not associated with light

10 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Anyways. In the end, what some may find acceptable and appropriate enough for the theme is the same here as with comic book characters. There simply is no right or wrong regarding what a person think. I personally think wisp fits well with the theme, both having powers that justifies the name aswell as having powers that do fit the portal and light themes they decided on.

Yes opinions about things of abstract nature need not have to be absolute. But you need to be able to justify it sufficiently for others to agree with you. 

And I suppose you are now of the opinion that it is purely a light and portal theme with little relation to spirits? 

 

As for the frames you mentioned, 

Chroma is more dragon slayer  that has a dragon pelt with magic properties he has fused with. 

Banshee is the screaming spirit, she really could use some more spirit aspects but she got the screaming/sound part down well. 

Saryn is the harbinger of toxic disease /plague. Not sure about the flower part. 

Atlas is the titan holding the earth, Atlas is all shoulders cause he holds up the earth, Atlas throws pieces of earth, Atlas carries more pieces  of earth, seems fine to to me. 

Vauban, poor vauban, throws balls that do stuff, not sure about how gadgeteer is different from engineer, both create devices with specific functions. 

Excalibur is the martial progeny (knight/samurai) able to wield the sword of light. Seems straight forward to me but he was the very first frame before the Devs had to think up themes and concepts, they did it pretty well considering. 

 

Once again as I said, not concerned too much about the naming itself. 

Edited May 22, 2019 by 0_The_F00l