Magnetic Damage Has No Purpose

[AshenHaze]

From enemies it causes a blow to energy, drains shields, and affects vision. Yet used on enemies only drains shields (75% max value). While good on paper, I think DE forgot that toxin damage bypasses shields. So what's the  point of ever bringing magnetic damage against Corpus when toxin damage does it's job twice as easy? It honestly only zaps shields and doesn't do anything excessive against robotic, and toxin only has a -25% damage modifier against robots but a +50% modifier against Corpus...

So by using toxin you are benefiting from not even focusing on shield of Corpus units, which essentially that through this bypass there's no real way for magnetic damage to catch up.

If there was a modification to the game that allowed only 50% or even 75% or so of toxin damage to bypass shields I think that would allow magnetic damage types enough ground to at least break even. Maybe it might be a good idea to look into having weaker robotic and machine enemies 'stunned' if they are essentially hit with a magnetic proc too. As the current damage system stands though, there is literally no reason to use magnetic damage.

[VenomousValentine]

I think they should make magnetic disrupt enemy abilities and silence them.

Hit a nullifier with magnetic, it pops.
Hit an arctic eximus directly and its shield goes away
Hit a fire eximus and it can't use its flame blast.

ETC

[Hayaies]

Id rather make Magnetic procs a weapon jamming aoe, it would still be the worst dmg type for most situations, but getiing a magnetic proc would not feel like divine punishment anymore, I have a build that uses every dmg type exept magnetic (and base poison bc gas is more fun) because it has no niesh. 

And to above, nice idea, but still would do near nothing realy if it had to proc for these effects.

[Guest]

Allow it to work on (aka Proc on) Eidolon Shields/Profit Taker's Shields and suddenly best damage type.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Guest

[DroopingPuppy]

A long time ago I understand that simply use Pox without other elemental modding is far better than magnetic to deal with Corpus. Magnetic is simply pointless, and for now it is only a penalized element.

[Darth_Predator]

41 минуту назад, Datam4ss сказал:

Allow it to work on (aka Proc on) Eidolon Shields/Profit Taker's Shields and suddenly best damage type.

Well, not really. You need the damage to pass for the effect to even be able to proc. And as it stands now eidolon shield can take danage (e.g. procs) only from void. Allow it to take damage from magnetic too and nobody will even bother using operator cause just bring dem magnetic high proc pistols. So eidolons will be probably dead in about 2 min max dues to mandatory phases when you do nothing.

Same goes for crab. Only takes damage from one type at a time. Allowing constant mag damage application will break it. Why bother building diverse elemental setup if you can just put magnetic everywhere.

I realize you suggestion was probably a joke, but still.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, fastgamer2 said:

Id rather make Magnetic procs a weapon jamming aoe

This is could totally see working (not least, it'd make Mag's Polarize Augment basically inflict a Magnetic proc, what madness is this).

Another suggestion I liked was to give Magnetic procs a (5m, like Blast) 360° pull effect, that'd synergize even better with Gas procs.

The other combined element pairs have damage + CC, why not make Magnetic + Gas follow suit?

Corrosive is a good all-round element and helps mitigate Armor while Blast is mostly for CC purposes.
Viral makes everything twice as easy to kill, while Radiation procs again provide (a measure of) CC.
Have Magnetic keep enemies in place for a bit so Gas can work its DOT magic, seems fair / useful enough.

[Ham_Grenabe]

2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

This is could totally see working (not least, it'd make Mag's Polarize Augment basically inflict a Magnetic proc, what madness is this).

Another suggestion I liked was to give Magnetic procs a (5m, like Blast) 360° pull effect, that'd synergize even better with Gas procs.

The other combined element pairs have damage + CC, why not make Magnetic + Gas follow suit?

Corrosive is a good all-round element and helps mitigate Armor while Blast is mostly for CC purposes.
Viral makes everything twice as easy to kill, while Radiation procs again provide (a measure of) CC.
Have Magnetic keep enemies in place for a bit so Gas can work its DOT magic, seems fair / useful enough.

Counter Pulse would have to be changed since a big part of it is jamming guns - but it's not like that's a problem. Maybe it could shutdown robots and generate a bucketload of energy orbs as it pulls energy from enemies. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Ham_Grenabe

[Skaleek]

It's actually really good against tenno. Radiation hazard sorties, sometimes those Wu Kongs can be tough to team kill. Well im here to tell you that magnetic damage is the answer. No energy means no Defy😉

Edited April 30, 2019 by Skaleek

[DroopingPuppy]

41 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

It's actually really good against tenno. Radiation hazard sorties, sometimes those Wu Kongs can be tough to team kill. Well im here to tell you that magnetic damage is the answer. No energy means no Defy😉

And also ineffective on the hands of Tenno as well.

[NinjaZeku]

1 hour ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

Counter Pulse would have to be changed

what why

None of Mag's abilities actually inflict Magnetic procs (AFAIK), that's the thing I was making fun of there 😛

A forced, kinda-sorta-Magnetic proc effect (it still runs off your Duration) would still be perfectly fine to keep, I'd say.

[Ham_Grenabe]

22 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

what why

None of Mag's abilities actually inflict Magnetic procs (AFAIK), that's the thing I was making fun of there 😛

A forced, kinda-sorta-Magnetic proc effect (it still runs off your Duration) would still be perfectly fine to keep, I'd say.

I think I misunderstood your comment is all. 

[Arcira]

Maybe some kind of energy restore like Exodia Brave or the Bligth/Entropy effect from Syndicate weapons would be worthwhile.

[Aldain]

I don't know why VOID DAMAGE is the one with the bullet attracter  status effect, when it would suit mag damage more.

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 9 heures, VenomousValentine a dit :

I think they should make magnetic disrupt enemy abilities and silence them.

Hit a nullifier with magnetic, it pops.
Hit an arctic eximus directly and its shield goes away
Hit a fire eximus and it can't use its flame blast.

ETC

That would have worked in the meta of 4 years ago, now it would be just as useless. 

You see it in how the damage types are used. Anything that isn't base slash phisical gets shafted. And the only elements used are DPS ones like toxin, viral and corrosive. So ye, either we turn every element into additional DPS, or no point touching magnetic at all. 

[SECURATYYY]

Make it jam enemy weapons? Can't shoot until it wears off.

[Steel_Rook]

The problem with Mangetic isn't just the Magnetic Proc, but the damage type itself. It's strong against a single health type predominantly used by SOME units from a single faction. And even when fighting Corpus, many units still have Grenier Armour anyway, and many more have health bars predominantly made up of Flesh/Robotic HP. Toxic notwithstanding, stuff like Slash and Viral still work better because the underlying humanoids are still vulnerable to those.

As to the Magnetic proc itself, draining max shields is not a bad effect. After all, draining armour that's predominantly used by Grenier is seen as a positive on Corrosive, right? The problem is that shields, by and large, suck ass. Most of the Corpus units don't even recover their shields, and the ones that do rarely live long enough for it to matter. I'm of the opinion that personal shields ought to do a lot more to protect their wielder to begin with, which ought to then make Magnetic more appealing. My personal proposition is to start by removing shield recharge delay entirely and speeding up base shield recovery substantially, on both Warframes AND enemies. Then go from there.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Magnetic has a purpose as an NPC damage type against Tenno. but yes as a player damage type it has limited use (it reminds me electric damage type in Borderlands 2)

[NinjaZeku]

13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

It's strong against a single health type predominantly used by SOME units from a single faction.

Some? What Corpus units don't use Shields?

13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

As to the Magnetic proc itself, draining max shields is not a bad effect.

It kinda is, not least since you already shred through Shields with that +75% damage multiplier.

13 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I'm of the opinion that personal shields ought to do a lot more to protect their wielder to begin with, which ought to then make Magnetic more appealing.

Ah no come on, we don't need to make Shields as much of a scaling nightmare as Armor already is, no, please no.

(Also, unless you make Shields not bypassable anymore, this just would make Toxin / Finisher damage even more prevalent.)

12 hours ago, MonsterOfMyOwn said:

as a player damage type it has limited use (it reminds me electric damage type in Borderlands 2)

Dunno, Shock damage was a ~decent all-round element I found (at least on NVHM, never ventured far into the higher difficulties TBH).

Magnetic, with a better, generally-useful proc, could easily fill that role,
it's only resisted by Alloy Armor and at worst neutral to everything else, that's not exactly terrible.

[Andele3025]

On 2019-04-30 at 10:04 AM, VenomousValentine said:

I think they should make magnetic disrupt enemy abilities and silence them.

Hit a nullifier with magnetic, it pops.
Hit an arctic eximus directly and its shield goes away
Hit a fire eximus and it can't use its flame blast.

ETC

Id rather have void damage do that and have magnetic damage get the... well Magnetize proc void has.

[Xzorn]

There's technically nothing wrong with Magnetic Damage and it's status effect.

It goes a bit deeper and is related to Shields as a health type being useless without mitigation for both players and enemies.

Luckily it's actually one of the easier things to address in the damage system which can get very complex. The first objective is to fix shields as a health type. I find Hildryn proved shield gating is not the answer and instead Shields should be barrier based offering stronger resistance that weakens as it's assaulted. The second would be for enemies only which is to greatly increase their Shield scaling.

There's not much that can be done with Toxic bypassing shields without creating a mess but this is also a thing which gets solved with scaling. Even the most Shield based Corpus units end up 50/50 Shields/Health at higher levels. Toxic actually takes a back seat to Viral and of course Gas remains strong but in this case a Magnetic proc to bypass the barrier based shielding would prove just as helpful as it's effectively a stronger Viral proc against the health type which has their mitigation.

[DroopingPuppy]

Only if non-Tenno characters, or at least Eximus are have energy and their abilities are also bounded to that, perhaps Magnetic is better than now.

You know, it is true that some elements are only works well against specific factions. But Magnetic is actually worse than the others even consider that. And is even worse than Toxic, which is a basic element.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Some? What Corpus units don't use Shields?

Predominantly used by only some types of Corpus. While all Corpus might have shields, a plurality of them have pretty light shields with lots of health. Most of them are also pretty fragile. Point being, the only time actively building for anti-shield damage seems to be "Reinforced Shield" Sorties, and even then... Well, put it this way - I tried taking Magnetic Damage to Orb Vallis. Enemies there have so much health and so many of them have Grenier Armour that the shields were the least of my worries. In practice, bringing Radiation and Puncture worked out better for me, personally.

 

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

Ah no come on, we don't need to make Shields as much of a scaling nightmare as Armor already is, no, please no. (Also, unless you make Shields not bypassable anymore, this just would make Toxin / Finisher damage even more prevalent.)

I'm of the opinion that parity needs to exist between the different factions. Currently, only the Grenier have any meaningful kind of damage mitigation and are consequently the only ones worth building against. Now granted - they have far too much in the way of mitigation and I wouldn't be opposed to reducing that. I certainly don't want to make shields impossible to bring down. I do still feel they need to be substantially more powerful, though. The Corpus strike me as a the "high-tech" faction who rely more on their fancy shielding than on health, armour or toughness. It's a bit like that exchange between Symmetra and Torbjorn in Overwatch: "Armour? How positively medieval."

That said - yes, I agree. I'm personally not a fan of damage types and status procs which ignore defensive abilities. Not a fan of Slash ignoring armour or Toxic ignoring shields. That issue is a bit more complex than just shields and armour, though, as it's rooted in fundamental issues with the damage/status system, as far as I'm concerned.