How Night wave burned out my full clan.

[ViolentTrAsh]

I'm actually one of Kai's clan members, and just happened to stumble across this post while casually browsing the forum. 

He's not wrong, we used to have at least 20 people online at all times, happily farming for this, that or the other.  Now if i log in we're lucky to have 3 people online. 
As for myself i used to spend hours of my free time in-game, mostly farming kuva for rivens to overcharge people for in trade chat. Then nightwave came along. Much like everyone else I decided that I just had to have that umbral forma. The resulting 8 week grind has me logging in for the daily bonus, then logging straight back out. 

Nightwave took the choice of how to play away from me, the things i wanted to do had to be sidelined so that I could instead waste the free time i had hunting bloody floofs and other equally riveting gameplay features that I'd happily ignored until that point. So 8 weeks in i hit 30 and had little to no fun for the duration of it. 

Now I'm finding it hard to want to log-in and do anything at all. Even the prospect of Wisp isn't all that exciting because i know once it's had enough forma dumped into it that'll be the end of the new content, and I'll end up having to grind another 8 weeks for the next umbral forma that I'm too afraid to use in case it ends up being wasted. 

Would be real nice if DE could rethink the way nightwave worked. Even in region chat I haven't found anyone defending it other than the "You only need 60%" line. 

Also, Hello Kai.
 

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

14 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

people stating that the burn out is my fault are correct i fully admit it. i could of handled it better. but it also burned out the new players i think nightwave failed in a way other warframe content has not because it had a time limited items i.e the umbra forma and wolf armour. and from what i know and please correct me if i am wong it has not been confirmed that these will return on a semi reguler basis.

Time limited items are OKAY! Jesus, so many other games have time limited items. Things that are exclusive. Why is it a crime for Warframe to have SOMETHING that's exclusive?!

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

8 hours ago, Shiichibukai said:

Just because you dont get burnout, doesnt mean other people dont. Hate those kind of comments "I DoNT HaVE IT so OtHErS CaNT EiThEr Hurr Durr"

His point was that OP went about Nightwave in the wrong manner and burnt himself out the way he handled Nightwave. If he had done it differently then he might not have burnt himself out.

[VoidWraith]

nightwave wasn't bad, till you maxed it at 30.... past that it was just wolf creds non stop... if they gave like forma bundles or exilus adapter bundles or w/e, or maybe even slots, if wouldve been awesome.

[FlyingDice]

Nightwave hits all three of the triad of awful game event design beats:

1. It adds no new content and turns existing content people formerly chose to run into chores they feel obliged to run.

2. It imposes deadlines -- and worse, uncertain deadlines.

3. It disrespects player time by spreading the grind out into small chunks on short timers. People who want to grind it down hard at the start of the event are forced to keep logging back in every few days instead; people who want to chip away over the course of the whole event are forced to get into focused grind every week instead.

 

And, to be clear, I have no dog in this fight, I finished it a week or two back. But I've seen this exact pattern in other games, and it doesn't make for a healthy playerbase. People who were already on the edge of burnout are pushed over and encouraged to quit. People who do quit lose incentive to return because they'll drop back in during the middle of an event and not be able to finish it regardless of how hard they grind.

The people in the peanut gallery going "lol just don't do it then" are either being disingenuous or are legitimately that ignorant of the psychology of grind-based games. Either way their opinions are worthless and thoroughly detached from reality.

[Diavoros]

The 60 mins no life support is extremely easy to accomplish unless you have NEVER done Taveuni Kuva farm, a survival mission on which you NEVER want to use the LS towers for other than gathering Kuva, and consider there are players who do several hours a day of that mission for Kuva and nope, they aren't burnt out yet. Besides that, every other NW challenge is easy, even the 40 waves survival. Rank 14 of prestige here, while I don't have reasons to keep doing NW challenges they get completed passively just by playing the game.

[EmberStar]

6 minutes ago, Diavoros said:

The 60 mins no life support is extremely easy to accomplish unless you have NEVER done Taveuni Kuva farm, a survival mission on which you NEVER want to use the LS towers for other than gathering Kuva, and consider there are players who do several hours a day of that mission for Kuva and nope, they aren't burnt out yet. Besides that, every other NW challenge is easy, even the 40 waves survival. Rank 14 of prestige here, while I don't have reasons to keep doing NW challenges they get completed passively just by playing the game.

Good.  It's not a problem.  FOR YOU.  I'm glad the design doesn't affect you.  That still does not magically mean that the design is not a problem.  Just that it's not a problem FOR YOU.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, TheAntiFish said:

As for myself i used to spend hours of my free time in-game, mostly farming kuva for rivens to overcharge people for in trade chat. 

Really? And I'm supposed to be sympathetic to your plight?

[ComCray]

kavat-dung-trolling aside... how can it be a grind if you're just doing what you're always doing? Why are you here? What do you think is the purpose of this game, besides killing you while you think you're killing time? There have been a really tiny amount of missions that were so specific (like the 60min kuva surv w/friends) as to be even remotely "annoying". 
Most of the stuff came down to; mod-for-this: have at it | do these specific missions : have at it | hey do something with a friend : have at it. Nothing intricate. Nothing really in the sense of planning far ahead. 

I ignored everything Orb Vallis/PoE and got to 30 on Sunday IIRC. By just playing. 

~shrugs~

Now, sure, there's room for improvement. DE stated as much at the start. The notion that goals are different for beginners, seasoned players and veterans are different is something that they obviously tried to tackle, but failed somewhat in that regard. Trust me: they are probably well aware of this. But changing it mid-season would cause a whole heap of new problems, so this is something to tweak the next season by. That is how this'll work.

The notion that for seasoned players only the top 3/4 rewards were of value... can I say, as a veteran of 4500+ hrs, that is... ummm.... sil... errr.. your opinion.. Come on man, what do you expect? A gilded diamond turd for every time you jump through a hoop? I kinda liked that gradual buildup. Some stuff I needed, some stuff I didn't.
It's all free and you get it for doing what you're already supposed to be doing... what's NOT to like..?

If anything, DE, might I suggest for next season you include that one rare ...commodity in the reward tree? Wotsitsname.. Ah.. Yes.. Patience.. 


PS: wrote a long winded (yeah, longer then this 😄 ) bit about what you guys call "the grind", it applies here...

 

[ViolentTrAsh]

39 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Really? And I'm supposed to be sympathetic to your plight?

Satire not coming across too well via text? shame.

[BDMblue]

6 hours ago, EmberStar said:

Right.  Because it's completely UNACCEPTABLE that people should form a clan around actually *liking* each other, or having shared interests, or similar playtimes or mission preferences.  And what a bunch of *losers* they are for trying to help other clan members with anything, amIright?

(Note:  The preceding comment contains Sarcasm, which is known to the state of California to be too complex a concept for some people to understand.  It should not be taken literally.  If you took it literally, seek help.)

Lol love the 2ed part.

but in all honesty let them take 2 min to find a group and not waste your 58 min. 

 

For me clans have always been 1 of 2 ways. I want to own a clan and feel good despite coxing people into my underdeveloped clan and wasting all are time, but I get to be the big clan leader.

or I’ll just join one that’s been around for years that has everything and not waste anyone’s time or resources.

Not saying your clans other of those but that’s basically how I see new clans. You get that feeling when you take a break for a week and have to find a new clan because your old kicked you. They are all the same.

So might as well just join one that’s got it all done because most likely your just visiting.

[BDMblue]

4 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

i already addressed this but some people got trolled by people using life support at 59 min after this no one in clan wanted to do any of them out side of our clan.

also my clan has a fully built dojo with all research for every item completed hell we even have rooms dedicated solely to art people want to create.

 

this would of been really helpful hell even it DE stated that as long as you do all the low level missions you would still get rank 30 or something like that.

 

to people saying they don't have burn out good for you. i wish i did not. what i do know is that i have every frame in game bar excal prime every weapon that's worth having that is not just MR fodder and i had all this before nightwave and was logging on still and having fun my clan was active and happy we had no issues with our members. after nightwave the player drop off was near immediate. The one and only thing that most people that have been playing for a while wanted from night wave was the umbra forma had that been put on the shop for plat i sure as hell would not of bothered with nightwave. 

as for people saying its not much of a grind well no its not its just mind numbly boring. i have been playing games since the zx spectrum and comadore 64 i know what grind is the wait time for each week is like having to wait 40 min for a tape drive to load up your C64 game and the nightwave content is like finding out the game you spent 40 min waiting to load  is ET the Extra-Terrestrial by atari.  nightwave stops you logging onto the game to have fun and adds daily missions of tedium causing a mental burn out. the nightwave shop is worse than the old alert system as well way worse.

 

 

Strange the 59 min life support. I’m guessing it was not 59 it was most likely between 55-60 as that’s when having a bad team causes you to fail. Since we had 2 60 min challenges I’m guessing they see 3% life support and chose to get one rather then fail boath.

Sounds most likely and after the player saved a 2X fail they called him a troll and raged till he muted him. Also the fact a lot of your clan needs members to carry them supports this.

I’ve also been there when I’m forced to look for group after group when the host knows nothing on how to build a team for the event. It’s get kicked or play with a bad team comp. Though that’s 95% of recruiting chat. Dumb as nails when it comes to the game.

Edited May 2, 2019 by BDMblue

[-CdG-Zilchy]

46 minutes ago, TheAntiFish said:

Satire not coming across too well via text? shame.

Sorry no lol. Use the /s 

Apologies

[Jiminez_Burial]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Pengu_Imperialus said:

I put a recommendation in the feedback forum that they should include a progress bar that gives a better Idea of how much total they need, and the average amount per week they need to achieve max rank.  Part of the problem, if you dig down on the complaints, is people didn't understand they didn't need to kill themselves to max out.

It's a linear rewards list (always 10k) and you always get the same number of 1k, 3k and 5k challenges each week.  It was also stated that NW would last AT LEAST 10 weeks.  It seems it was pretty clear to me, unless people are incapable of doing basic math.

[Kaimera_Prime]

56 minutes ago, BDMblue said:

Strange the 59 min life support. I’m guessing it was not 59 it was most likely between 55-60 as that’s when having a bad team causes you to fail. Since we had 2 60 min challenges I’m guessing they see 3% life support and chose to get one rather then fail boath.

Sounds most likely and after the player saved a 2X fail they called him a troll and raged till he muted him. Also the fact a lot of your clan needs members to carry them supports this.

I’ve also been there when I’m forced to look for group after group when the host knows nothing on how to build a team for the event. It’s get kicked or play with a bad team comp. Though that’s 95% of recruiting chat. Dumb as nails when it comes to the game.

basically you get new players that try to do a 60 min kuva mission in a random group then you get 1 ass hole that has nothing to do but wait for the timer to get past 55 min and then use a air supply on the life support instently failing the mission. this resulted in clan members not wanting to to even attempt the mission with pub groups because you get #*!%ed over by 1 ass hole.

[lightdragon64]

I'm mostly annoyed by Nightwave because it had all these rewards, and i have little time to play games anymore. I'm currently sitting at rank 8, and now i've been made aware that season 2 is coming up... and i'm honestly pissed, i thought it would last longer than this.

I mainly want the mods and the forma, but i'd at least like to get my hands on all the customization stuff, but now I'll be locked out of it until who knows when? it doesn't help that an actual weapon (the wolf hammer) is locked behind a grind that may or may not exist after season 1 is done. (not to mention, that despite me almost constantly trying to get the wolf to spawn for me when i did have some time to play, he absolutely refused. I never saw him, not even once.)

Personally, i just felt that the grind was too much for how little time i have to play, and the rewards for doing so were underwhelming to boot. There needs to be some serious improvements to season 2, and hopefully the ability to get season 1 rewards will pop up quickly... I'm still upset at how little time it felt like season 1 lasted.

 

Essentially, the system needs less grind, and better rewards. also, they need less of the "do a thing with friends or clan mates" BS, because most people don't want to do that, i'm certain. I swear, that more than half of the 5000pt challenges were something that required a friend or clan mate to complete.

Edited May 2, 2019 by lightdragon64

[BDMblue]

3 hours ago, Kaimera_Prime said:

basically you get new players that try to do a 60 min kuva mission in a random group then you get 1 ass hole that has nothing to do but wait for the timer to get past 55 min and then use a air supply on the life support instently failing the mission. this resulted in clan members not wanting to to even attempt the mission with pub groups because you get #*!%ed over by 1 ass hole.

Well show a video. I’m sure they said that’s why he did it, but most likely he did it because life support dropped and fail was seconds away.

And you said more then 1 person said it from your clan....

sooo what’s more likely your clans being targeted or maybe they were going to fail life support got used and they put the motivation they think some one had onto them.

Because this kinda trolling does not seem main stream.

[Test-995]

8 hours ago, (XB1)RevenantRequiem said:

Time limited items are OKAY! Jesus, so many other games have time limited items. Things that are exclusive. Why is it a crime for Warframe to have SOMETHING that's exclusive?!

Because it is different from what warframe was, because reasons.

So people would leave.

[MagPrime]

3 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

Because it is different from what warframe was, because reasons.

So people would leave.

But, warframe used to have true exclusives... 

[Warhydra]

The reward structure and challenges do need some work. The event currency should be spread out more evenly throughout the ranks and important rewards should probably be place about mid way (14-16 or so) and cosmetics toward the end. 
Also the prestige rewards need to be something else lol, too many people I know get to rank 30 and have nothing to look forward to til next season. 

[Test-995]

25 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

But, warframe used to have true exclusives... 

That was good exclusive, don't ask me why, but seems like bunch of people feeling that way.

That's why i used the word reasons.

Well, i may misunderstanding what people saying...

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Test-995 said:

That was good exclusive, don't ask me why, but seems like bunch of people feeling that way.

That's why i used the word reasons.

Well, i may misunderstanding what people saying...

The community makes bipolar look fun and easy. 

[Test-995]

Just now, MagPrime said:

The community makes bipolar look fun and easy. 

I think i'm not saying entire community thinking that way?

 

[MagPrime]

Just now, Test-995 said:

I think i'm not saying entire community thinking that way?

 

Please take this in the spirit it's meant but; are you ok?

From what I've seen you're an articulate individual and your last couple posts are very...not. 

[-Temp0-]

14 часов назад, Test-995 сказал:

This is general discussion tho...

Exactly and apparently, some and you included missed the "discussion" part in there.

But that doesnt really matter, at last after all these years even youtube and stream partners are all coming up and found the b*ls to tell DE the truth and how much their decisions and content recently suck(ed). They can and do ignore it but at the very least cant hide from it any more.