I am suprised people have a problem with Index excal.

[TeddyTalker]

Cheese methods of Index include....

 

Atlas blocking the doors

Gara blocking the doors 

Nezha running around with his three.

Rhino 2

Nova map slowdown 

Limbo

Mesa nuking the map

Saryn nuking

Mirage nuking

Revenaunt mesmer

All these warframes either AFK the game, remove challenge, or make farming braindead simple. Excalibur just happened to be the best at it with kohm builds.

 

In addition, the bigger problem is that warframe just promote efficency by design. It is very dull to grind out this game, so you SHOULD strive for efficency. That is a game design issue.

 

Excaliber is just another warrior to this end, and tbh not even the worst example, just the laziest one

[Loza03]

28 minutes ago, moostar95 said:

Just give up on wanting balance. Until de does something about it. It's best to just look at warframe as being a casual game. 

Monster Hunter's a pretty fun casual game and it's balanced.

Balance is a good thing regardless of the intended audience.

[TeddyTalker]

25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Monster Hunter's a pretty fun casual game and it's balanced.

Balance is a good thing regardless of the intended audience.

>Casual

Monster hunter games are consistently more difficult and punishing then the sole games, approaching the levels of BS you would in older NES titles.

 

Games hard as heck for the unfamilar and honestly disheartening for new gamers. It would probably turn them off of games.

 

Warframe is casual-ish. Require alot of knowledge.

 

Cod is true casual.

 

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

>Casual

Monster hunter games are consistently more difficult and punishing then the sole games, approaching the levels of BS you would in older NES titles.

 

Games hard as heck for the unfamilar and honestly disheartening for new gamers. It would probably turn them off of games.

 

Warframe is casual-ish. Require alot of knowledge.

 

Cod is true casual.

 

Perhaps it's my personal journey and biases, but World is a lot more casual-friendly.

[TeddyTalker]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Perhaps it's my personal journey and biases, but World is a lot more casual-friendly.

It is, but no casual will play a game where the progression loop is to grind the roadblock that killed you on end for hours. They want to move past roadblocks, not to grind them to a masterful extent. Souls game are far more leinent than that.

[Birdframe_Prime]

The reason people have an issue with Umbra is that all of your other methods have one thing in common; they're abilities that you actively cast and do something with, even if some of them do have long pauses between your need for interaction. Abilities have some balance to them in that they cost, they require input, they don't do anything beyond what the ability says on the tin.

Excal Umbra is a bot. You jump out, do your own thing as an Operator, maybe even use all those nice powers to buff your team or provide energy regen or healing, or even turn them all invisible with massive damage reduction. Meanwhile your Excal is running around and playing the game for you.

And on top of that, there's literally no cost to this. There's no real downside, no limitations. It's not an ability, it doesn't cost you anything, and in fact it is several abilities for free thanks to the AI's ridiculously high energy regen, plus all your weapons, in a state where it's very difficult for you or the frame to die.

Unlike any other cheese strat, this is a genuine AFK strat, and those are frowned on heavily.

[Loza03]

12 minutes ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

It is, but no casual will play a game where the progression loop is to grind the roadblock that killed you on end for hours. They want to move past roadblocks, not to grind them to a masterful extent. Souls game are far more leinent than that.

World has roadblock monsters? Certainly not for Solo where Monsters are dramatically nerfed from their co-op counterparts.

 

Sass aside, maybe that'll change with Iceborne. They are adding in Narga and Tigrex, and certainly if the angry dragon tiger T-Rex train was derailed in what's been explicitly called out as the 'G-rank equivalent' people would be angry.

And, yeah, I played through 4U and Generations, so I'm probably spoiled on the new player experience to World.

[FlusteredFerret]

Well its not just limited to the Index.

Abuse of OP abilities and weapons is a game-wide problem.

 

DE need to hardcore nerf a LOT of stuff to bring back challenge to the game. 

 

 

 

_{*flees from the approaching lynch mob*}

 

[Lutesque]

I have a problem with Index in general. 

[Chaemyerelis]

Did someone here just conflate monster hunter world with souls games? Freakin heretic.

[nslay]

45 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I have a problem with Index in general. 

Are you sure it's not just a problem with the people who play Index? I really enjoy my specter team mates in high risk index. They don't talk or steal your points (usually) or anything... 

[SordidDreams]

3 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

the bigger problem is that warframe just promote efficency by design. It is very dull to grind out this game, so you SHOULD strive for efficency. That is a game design issue

That issue cannot be solved as long as WF uses the pay-to-skip business model. The grind has to be dull in order to motivate people to pay money to skip or at least accelerate it. Nobody would pay to have less fun.

Edited May 13, 2019 by SordidDreams

[Ghogiel]

After I found out how buttmad people got when they see an umbra excal in index, I ceased to play anything else. It simply creates much more nerd rage drama and makes the farming have moments of mild amusement.

[HugintheCrow]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The reason people have an issue with Umbra is that all of your other methods have one thing in common; they're abilities that you actively cast and do something with, even if some of them do have long pauses between your need for interaction. Abilities have some balance to them in that they cost, they require input, they don't do anything beyond what the ability says on the tin.

Excal Umbra is a bot. You jump out, do your own thing as an Operator, maybe even use all those nice powers to buff your team or provide energy regen or healing, or even turn them all invisible with massive damage reduction. Meanwhile your Excal is running around and playing the game for you.

And on top of that, there's literally no cost to this. There's no real downside, no limitations. It's not an ability, it doesn't cost you anything, and in fact it is several abilities for free thanks to the AI's ridiculously high energy regen, plus all your weapons, in a state where it's very difficult for you or the frame to die.

Unlike any other cheese strat, this is a genuine AFK strat, and those are frowned on heavily.

This is an extremely weak argument. You press one button to cast an ability that does NOT have any cost, because you have infinite energy through zenurik. You press one button to switch to Excal Umbra.

If DE is salty about people afking, they shouldn't make an afk passive? They programmed the specters to have perfect 10/10 aimbot shooting, nobody forced them to do that. Every other AI in the game has accuracy stat, it's not like they couldn't have specters using similar model.

[TeddyTalker]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

World has roadblock monsters? Certainly not for Solo where Monsters are dramatically nerfed from their co-op counterparts.

 

Sass aside, maybe that'll change with Iceborne. They are adding in Narga and Tigrex, and certainly if the angry dragon tiger T-Rex train was derailed in what's been explicitly called out as the 'G-rank equivalent' people would be angry.

And, yeah, I played through 4U and Generations, so I'm probably spoiled on the new player experience to World.

I played freedom unite, and their wank hitboxes.

Dark souls was consistently easier and you can definitely imagine why.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 minute ago, HugintheCrow said:

This is an extremely weak argument. You press one button to cast an ability that does NOT have any cost

That's like saying 'I fire my gun and it doesn't have any cost, because ammo restores exist'. Just because you can restore energy doesn't mean that the cost is not there. Press a button have one ability.

Excal Umbra is press a button for something else to then press multiple buttons for you for as long as you want. It runs around, it shoots, it casts, it does everything you should be doing. Is it perfect at that? No. But you get free Radial Blinds, free Slash Dashes, free Radial Javelins. No energy cost, no button inputs, not even walking around yourself to shoot at the enemies either. It's an aimbot with infinite energy and it's not even costing the resources and build time of a Spectre to achieve that.

And while we, as players, are incredibly powerful and have some really ridiculous cheese strats for getting through missions, not one of those is something that allows us to literally not play the game. Everything else, you still have to cast, you still have to move, you still have to shoot, you still have to interact with the game and be worried about replenishing what costs you pay such as Energy or Ammo. Umbra plays for you while you go sit in the corner, and there's no consequence for alt-tabbing out to watch Netflix. And that, whether in the Index or not, is actually an exploit and needs to be fixed.

But more than that, I for one don't want to see it nerfed like the others. The previous farming exploits, like Greedy Pull Mag and Mesa's 360 Aimbot before this resulted in not only nerfs to those frames, but also the complete removal of old Draco's mission to be replaced with a Survival, and since then Resonating Quake got stripped, and more and more throughout the history of the game.

I don't want that happening to Excal Umbra, so fixing these infinite functions on a frame that doesn't even need input to achieve them, that needs to be done so that in the future they don't put a giant foot on the frame and remove chunks of it with a shovel.

[TeddyTalker]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

The reason people have an issue with Umbra is that all of your other methods have one thing in common; they're abilities that you actively cast and do something with, even if some of them do have long pauses between your need for interaction. Abilities have some balance to them in that they cost, they require input, they don't do anything beyond what the ability says on the tin.

Excal Umbra is a bot. You jump out, do your own thing as an Operator, maybe even use all those nice powers to buff your team or provide energy regen or healing, or even turn them all invisible with massive damage reduction. Meanwhile your Excal is running around and playing the game for you.

And on top of that, there's literally no cost to this. There's no real downside, no limitations. It's not an ability, it doesn't cost you anything, and in fact it is several abilities for free thanks to the AI's ridiculously high energy regen, plus all your weapons, in a state where it's very difficult for you or the frame to die.

Unlike any other cheese strat, this is a genuine AFK strat, and those are frowned on heavily.

Why is it frowned upon. Because it is low effort? That is less of a valid complaint and more of a personal gripe. Warframe done efficiently is a mindless grinding game to get better at grinding in many cases, as there is no endgame. An AFK farm is just max efficiency. The game already stupid easy with the right knowledge, so the problem is not the challenge. If people object because they simply do not like it then idk. I don't really care for emotion based arguments.

[TeddyTalker]

54 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

That issue cannot be solved as long as WF uses the pay-to-skip business model. The grind has to be dull in order to motivate people to pay money to skip or at least accelerate it. Nobody would pay to have less fun.

Then this is the result. The umbra Farm. Making the game grindier just going to kill the player base.

[musicalsocks23]

4 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

Nezha running around with his three.

 Rhino 2

Why do you consider these two to be cheesing the game mode? Both of these still require you to be vigilant as there are multiple things that can strip your shield, and once it is stripped, energy can sometimes be difficult to obtain to recast these abilities. 

[MagPrime]

The difference between what you listed and Excal Umbra is that it's much easier to AFK and do it for longer.

[HugintheCrow]

30 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

no consequence for alt-tabbing out to watch Netflix.

Except the game realising you are afk, removing any potential rewards and if done multiple times, banning you automatically.

[trunks013]

Am i the only one who takes the absence of Equinox in this list personal ?

Just kidding but yeah the problem is not rly excal but the AFK tenno ^.^ 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

Monster hunter games are consistently more difficult and punishing then the sole games, approaching the levels of BS you would in older NES titles.

😐

4 hours ago, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

It is, but no casual will play a game where the progression loop is to grind the roadblock that killed you on end for hours.

😲

*Flashbacks intensify*

*Curls into a ball on the floor*

*Whispers a single word.... *

Battletoads. 

[(PSN)segulibanez65]

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Perhaps it's my personal journey and biases, but World is a lot more casual-friendly.

Its def MORE casual friendly, but its still far more in-depth than the majority of games released anymore.  The older ones were like a second job to a new player trying to learn the basics.  I did enjoy them more though... Put 100hr into World when it released and haven't ever gone back; don't even want to know how many hr I put into freedom unite.  Keep waiting for G-Rank to release before I return, but at this point I just want a Dragon's Dogma sequel out of Capcom.

[Legion-Shields]

.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Legion-Shields