[FULMIN] First Impressions & Feedback

[CodeUltimate]

In the last hotfix it said a bug was fixed where the fulmin, catchmoon and the arca plasmor were doing double damage but my catchmoon has been doing the same damage as before even after the jovian concord update. The problem is the fulmin is now dealing half the damage and it completely destroys the weapon please DE rollback the damage on the fulmin don't kill a perfectly ok weapon :'c

[George_PPS]

I thought this was another post suggesting nerfing this and nerfing that because others using it killing more than me. Glad is the opposite. It should indeed be buffed. 

[CodeUltimate]

1 hour ago, George_PPS said:

I thought this was another post suggesting nerfing this and nerfing that because others using it killing more than me. Glad is the opposite. It should indeed be buffed. 

yeah they really killed it by halving the damage but I already got fond of the weapon lol. I really hope they buff it again but knowing DE I highly doubt it. :c

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

2 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

The problem is the fulmin is now dealing half the damage and it completely destroys the weapon

So much melodrama omg

[Ham_Grenabe]

This is not worth the hyperbole. We all know we’re gonna go back to our usual Plasmor and Rubico ways anyway. The Fulmin will be forgotten by the end of next week. 

[CodeUltimate]

Just now, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

So much melodrama omg

it does because on 100+ level enemies the weapon no longer kills them withing one magazine and the reload speed is slow enough to make it completely awful to use. DE should either buff the damage back or lower the ammo cost to 5 for the semi auto mode :c

[CodeUltimate]

Just now, Ham_Grenabe said:

This is not worth the hyperbole. We all know we’re gonna go back to our usual Plasmor and Rubico ways anyway. The Fulmin will be forgotten by the end of next week. 

it should be because we finally got a weapon decent enough to stop using the meta weapons but now we are back to square one lol

[bibmobello]

12 minutes ago, CodeUltimate said:

it should be because we finally got a weapon decent enough to stop using the meta weapons but now we are back to square one lol

This is pretty  hypocritical... You want a META  broken weapon so you can stop to use other weapons... With 3 stars disposition this weapon is clearly superior to the arca plasmor.

Edited May 25, 2019 by bibmobello

[CodeUltimate]

5 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

This is pretty  hypocritical... You want a META  broken weapon so you can stop to use other weapons...

the fulmin wasn't broken but it was good enough to not use the meta weapons damn the people in the forums are really toxic 8v. it being superior to the arca plasmor is not saying much since the arca plasmor sucks really bad right now

Edited May 25, 2019 by CodeUltimate
8v

[10100101]

Now that we've had a chance to use some of the new weapons, maybe you guys have some constructive first impressions or feedback on how these guns feel.  I was personally most interested in the Fulmin as it looks nice, has an interesting gimmick and doesn't need ammo but how does it stack up?  Is the Fulmin going to be a top tier weapon or is it underpowered compared to what we already have?  Will you swap out your main wep for the fulmin after a week or just stick it in storage and go back to your main?  Post your own + and - below:

{POSITIVE FIRST IMPRESSIONS}

+ Nice looks & sound
+ Cool dual mode shotgun > auto rifle switch
+ Doesn't need ammo 
+ High crit build potential
+ Rifle mode has good range
+ Shotgun mode has good power
+ Inherent electricity damage 

{NEGATIVE FIRST IMPRESSIONS}

- Rifle mode is far less effective than Amprex
- Shotgun mode is far less effective than Arca Plasmor
- Shotgun mode range is limited (10m-20m) and can't add Sinister Reach or Shotgun range mods yet
- Recharge time of 1 sec is actually 2 sec as you have to wait 1 sec before it will start to recharge
- If you fire a single shot before reload is complete you will have to wait another 1-2 seconds to get your clip back up.
- Adding reload speed mods only affects the 1 second recharge duration meaning they lose 50% effectiveness
  e.g. adding fast hands (30% reload speed) will only reduce total reload time by 15%.
- Adding magazine mods to boost ammo per mag will require more time to recharge which makes sense, but also makes the weapon far less effective than other ammo types
  e.g. if you have 90 ammo per mag instead of the 60 base value, your actual reload time is now 3 seconds

{FEEDBACK}

I personally like the idea of the weapon, but there are a few niggles.  Will this replace my Amprex, Glaxion Vandal or Arca Plasmor energy based weapons?  At the moment, no.  I really love the idea of having energy weapons that have innate recharge as that makes much more sense, even a {MOD} that replaces ammo on existing energy weapons and allows them to recharge over time would be amazing!  But I feel like the recharge mechanics are a bit clunky at the moment.  The 1 second pause between reloads, making 2 seconds charge time, could be greatly improved by instead giving the weapon a 2 second recharge rate BUT it starts recharging immediately.  In both cases it's still going to take 2 seconds to reload, but it would feel vastly better to use if we could start recharging immediately.  

I'd really like to be able to increase the range of the shotgun mode through sinister reach, and in my current testing it feels like that mode is the far more effective of the two.  You can do some nice long range poke damage in rifle mode, but the damage scaling isn't linear between modes.  For example, if you empty a full 60 clip in both modes, you will be putting out vastly different damage:

SHOTGUN MODE: 500 damage per shot x 6 shots (10 ammo per shot) = 3,000 damage per mag
RIFLE MODE:  33 damage per shot x 60 shots (1 ammo per shot) = 1,980 damage per mag

Basically, rifle mode is 33% less effective than shotgun mode using the same amount of ammo and that gets worse when you consider TTK (time to kill) and AOE (area of effect) damage, the shotgun mode is hands down better in that regard by +/- 50% imo.  Trade offs are understandable, but at the moment the weapon is not compelling enough to compete with the other top tier weapons that can do everything better and modding it in the fashion above can't overcome the inherent limitations in the current iteration.  It's definitely a cool weapon with a nice gimmick but I fear it may not be used beyond the honeymoon phase without a few more tweaks.

Feel free to post your own feedback and impressions below...

Edited May 25, 2019 by 10100101
speling & gramhar

[Robolaser]

Turns out that spending thousands of plats on garbage rivens for an obviously overperforming weapon before the first few hotfixes was a bad idea.

[bubbabenali]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Robolaser:

Turns out that spending thousands of plats on garbage rivens for an obviously overperforming weapon before the first few hotfixes was a bad idea.

People never learn... Even after the Vulklok patch'o'rama

[Ham_Grenabe]

I haven't used it post-fix (where it was doing double damage) but I thought it was fun. Didn't care much for the automatic lightning rifle thing (it was unimpressive in all respects: damage, visuals, sounds). The shotgun mode was fun and effective. It's worth noting that I never used it against enemies higher than about level 35, so I don't think the bugged double damage made much difference there. 

Not destined to be a gun I use much, though. It resides in the huge pile of average weapons that Warframe contains - something to be brought out for fun now and again. Not worth a forma at this time. 

[TylerFreeman]

its definitely an insta-fav for me, since I do prefer having the convenience of a shotgun and a rifle packed into one weapon, though I only use it when dealing with enemies from far away.

Edited May 25, 2019 by TylerFreeman

[zirkwander]

Used this to reach 4064 points doing a solo run for the Hostile Takeovers prior to the "fix". Used Fulmin entirely in Semi mode to kill the Demolysts from Round 1 to 10, others were taken cared of my Catchmoon (saving the limited ammo due to Fulmin's mediocre reload/recharge time).

Fast forward after the 25.0.3 update, been using the same load out and the Fulmin can barely kill a Demolyst in Round 1.

Forma'd the thing 6 times when it was introduced.

Thank you for wasting my time.

Thank you for making me waste plat on getting the bundle.

Edited May 25, 2019 by zirkwander

[CodeUltimate]

I don't mind it having really short range but that's why it should compensate with the damage. I think the weapon really shined when it was dealing the double damage since it was a short but strong burst weapon and it was the only rifle I would consider bringin to arbitrations, but after the nerf not so much...

Also the weapon doesn't factor headshot multipliers and I think that's kinda unexpected since it is a silent weapon and you can't even take advantage of ivara's prowl damage boost.

[CodeUltimate]

1 minute ago, zirkwander said:

Used this to reach 4064 points doing a solo run for the Hostile Takeovers prior to the "fix". Used Fulmin entirely in Semi mode to kill the Demolysts from Round 1 to 10, others were taken cared of my Catchmoon (saving the limited ammo due to Fulmin's mediocre reload/recharge time).

Fast forward after the 25.0.3 update, been using the same load out and the Fulmin can barely kill a Demolyst in Round 1.

Forma'd the thing 6 times when it was introduced.

Thank you for wasting my time.

Thank you for making me waste plat on getting the bundle.

yes DE plz rollback the fulmin it was perfect as it was before now it is just a mediocre weapon with low recharge, bad ammo per magazine and really bad damage.

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, 10100101 said:

- Rifle mode is far less effective than Amprex
- Shotgun mode is far less effective than Arca Plasmor

Well... why wouldn't they be? Aside from the fact that the rifle is nothing like the Amprex, why would a weapon that does both exceed a weapon that only does either of these? The whole point is you get the flexibility for both.

If you're looking for either of these modes individually... get a gun that does that mode better. If you want a really good screwdriver, you buy a really good screwdriver, not a swiss army knife.

4 hours ago, 10100101 said:

I'd really like to be able to increase the range of the shotgun mode through sinister reach, and in my current testing it feels like that mode is the far more effective of the two.  You can do some nice long range poke damage in rifle mode, but the damage scaling isn't linear between modes.  For example, if you empty a full 60 clip in both modes, you will be putting out vastly different damage:

SHOTGUN MODE: 500 damage per shot x 6 shots (10 ammo per shot) = 3,000 damage per mag
RIFLE MODE:  33 damage per shot x 60 shots (1 ammo per shot) = 1,980 damage per mag

Has it occurred to you that the short range of the Shotgun mode might be the point? The fact that the Rifle mode is both hitscan and pinpoint accurate (accuracy of 111.1) indicates that it's intended to be used over a greater distance, and you're intended to switch between them based on the situation and what's most effective.

Large, short-range AoE burst damage vs medium, extreme long-range precision damage. Not to mention that the Semi mode can't headshot due to being an Arca-style shotgun, whilst the Full-auto can, so that'll change the actual performance numbers.

[Nuvaftw]

And for some reason plasmor crits more than fulmin despite having a lower crit chance

Edited May 25, 2019 by Nuvaftw

[(PSN)LoisGordils]

6 hours ago, 10100101 said:

Rifle mode is far less effective than Amprex

Amprex is a beam weapon that has limited range and specializes in crowd management. Fulmin rifle mode is a hitscan weapon with unlimited range. You can't compare the two, because they use different mechanics. 

6 hours ago, 10100101 said:

Shotgun mode range is limited (10m-20m) and can't add Sinister Reach or Shotgun range mods yet

No limited range projectile weapon is affected by Sinister Reach or Ruinous Extension. What you're looking for is projectile flight speed

[Buttaface]

So folks think a combo Arca Plasmor and highly accurate, little/no recoil full auto hose without beam weapon spinup shouldn't have significant tradeoffs in certain areas? OK then.

Fulmin is a very nice, great looking, sounding weapon and very well-balanced given the several tradeoffs. No buffs or nerfs needed. I won't bother building it all the way out until nice rivens for it drop to 300p in a month, but I will eventually forma it several times. Don't know whether it was still damage-bugged while leveling it, but it is one of the better designed weapons they've done in awhile.

Spent lots of the morning playing with it in simulacrum after leveling it yesterday. It's not power creepy at all. The damage falloff on the primary is linear from 100% to 0 from 10-20 feet, so even at 15 ft it's falling off significantly. Good. Game doesn't need another Arca Plasmor. Reload seems to be a total of 2.2 to 2.5 seconds. Tradeoff there on the FA mode is that like the Tiberon Prime, it has a relatively small magazine, so if it's sped up with shred/P shred, speed trigger, vigilante, etc., it's going to be reloading lots in exchange for that electric dakka. That's pretty well balanced in exchange for the outsized paper numbers.

The apparent mania over it given trade chat reminds me of when the Baza came out. People looked right past the small mag and falloff and declared it the new meta FA. And Baza is a fine weapon, just always ALWAYS examine all the tradeoffs on a new weapon before going all cuckoo over it's damage/crit/status stats.

Fulmin is great, bravo DE!

Edited May 25, 2019 by Buttaface

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, Buttaface сказал:

So folks think a combo Arca Plasmor and highly accurate, little/no recoil full auto hose without beam weapon spinup shouldn't have significant tradeoffs in certain areas? OK then.

Fulmin is a very nice, great looking, sounding weapon and very well-balanced given the several tradeoffs. No buffs or nerfs needed. I won't bother building it all the way out until nice rivens for it drop to 300p in a month, but I will eventually forma it several times. Don't know whether it was still damage-bugged while leveling it, but it is one of the better designed weapons they've done in awhile.

Spent lots of the morning playing with it in simulacrum after leveling it yesterday. It's not power creepy at all. The damage falloff on the primary is linear from 100% to 0 from 10-20 feet, so even at 15 ft it's falling off significantly. Good. Game doesn't need another Arca Plasmor. Reload seems to be a total of 2.2 to 2.5 seconds. Tradeoff there on the FA mode is that like the Tiberon Prime, it has a relatively small magazine, so if it's sped up with shred/P shred, speed trigger, vigilante, etc., it's going to be reloading lots in exchange for that electric dakka. That's pretty well balanced in exchange for the outsized paper numbers.

The apparent mania over it given trade chat reminds me of when the Baza came out. People looked right past the small mag and falloff and declared it the new meta FA. And Baza is a fine weapon, just always ALWAYS examine all the tradeoffs on a new weapon before going all cuckoo over it's damage/crit/status stats.

Fulmin is great, bravo DE!

It need a slight buff to rechange speed - it's a bit too slow

[Buttaface]

19 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

It need a slight buff to rechange speed - it's a bit too slow

Recharge is fine. It's MR8 and the Fulmin FA mode has comparable stats to Stradavar Prime's (a MR12 weapon) FA with pinpoint accuracy, negligible recoil, 10% higher base damage, only puncture IPS on its FA mode for more elemental status, and needs no ammo. So yeah, it needs the tradeoff of the small mag and recharge else it would be unbalanced.

Having a pocket SILENT Arca Plasmor/Catchmoonish shotty rifle on top of a top tier FA hose. Did you think it would be without any flaws?

I hope no one in the thread gets snookered into spending thousands of plat on a riven for Fulmin (or any other weapon for that matter, it's totally unnecessary in this game). It's a great, very well designed, powerful new MR8 weapon, but it has and needs tradeoffs. Would wager it's not going to be buffed. It's perfect in its niche as is.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Buttaface

[NoLazyShadow]

Только что, Buttaface сказал:

Recharge is fine. It's MR8 and the Fulmin FA mode has comparable stats to Stradavar Prime's (a MR12 weapon) FA with pinpoint accuracy, negligible recoil, 10% higher base damage, only puncture IPS on its FA mode for more elemental status, and needs no ammo. So yeah, it needs the tradeoff of the small mag and recharge else it would be unbalanced.

Having a pocket SILENT Arca Plasmor/Catchmoonish shotty rifle on top of a top tier FA hose. Did you think it would be without any flaws?

I hope no one in the thread gets snookered into spending thousands of plat on a riven for Fulmin (or any other weapon for that matter, it's totally unnecessary in this game). It's a great, very well designed, powerful new MR8 weapon, but it has and needs tradeoffs. Would wager it's not going to be buffed. It's perfect in its niche as is.

Hm..you do have a point here. If reload speed mods affect recharge speed then that problem can be fixed with Prime fast hands(+1 forma in build). As for rivens...I think I'll wait for prices to drop. Spending 3k+ plat on riven that will be nerfed because of weapon's popularity - not my style

[BlindStalker]

4 hours ago, CodeUltimate said:

Also the weapon doesn't factor headshot multipliers and I think that's kinda unexpected since it is a silent weapon and you can't even take advantage of ivara's prowl damage boost. 

Really? One of the entire reasons why I wanted to build this weapon was specifically because it was an innately silent weapon with high crit chance, so it seemed like it would be a great candidate to pair with my Ivara. It sucks to hear that her prowl headshot bonus has no effect on the weapon. I do have the baza and all the bows and crossbows in the game, I just wanted to have more innately silent weapons added to the game (I already hush/suppress all the non-silent guns, I just want more innately silent weapon options to play with). But I still have to build the weapon before I have final feelings about it. Thanks for the heads up though about it not being affected by prowl's headshot multiplier.