With all the new mods and sets need more slots 2019

[mcdoo]

Title says it all. We asked for this before but now with all the new mods and sets its about time to rework the mod setups.

I say 1 extra polarity slot and another aura/set mod slot. 

What say you besides..No. 🙂 

[Vesiga]

power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep 

Nope

[Tinklzs]

We are already too powerful as it is, between rivens, warframes (some more than others) and meta weapons.  

 

Players need nerfed, enemies need redesigned in scaling. I'd be fine with an augment slot AFTER that - but not before.

A very strong, no.

 

[Krion112]

How about we just make it so mandatory mods are, well, just not mandatory anymore, and by extension, make lesser used mechanics that mods upgrade or add more important.

Like, maybe raw damage shouldn't be universally rewarded anymore. How about that, instead of just creeping up the power in the game? Make the trade-offs more appealing, rather than just letting us have it all.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Krion112

[k05h]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb mcdoo:

What say you besides..No. 🙂 

I would say no because most weapons and warframes no longer just kill but overkill x-times. Most weapons are so powerful by themselves that you wonder why we need rivens for them *cough* all snipers, zaws, kitguns, whips.

You can even today leave your normal path of mandatory mods, do something more crazy and still own sortie 3. The mecha mod sets and some of the amalgam mods are amazing. Same goes for the strain mods. These are all far from perfect but the opportunity for creative builds is clearly there.

Edited June 16, 2019 by k05h

[Dark_Lugia]

2 words:
power creep
 

[Dhrekr]

[Tinklzs]

2 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

How about we just make it so mandatory mods are, well, just not mandatory anymore, and by extension, make lesser used mechanics that mods upgrade or add more important.

Like, maybe raw damage shouldn't be universally rewarded anymore. How about that, instead of just creeping up the power in the game? Make the trade-offs more appealing, rather than just letting us have it all.

This would require a complete re-balance of the game (which I am 100% for). Warframes would need to be nerfed/buffed accordingly, a 'clear and precise' vision for Warframe would need to be determined. Star chart is borderlands, endurance runs is Payday 2 (teamwork, coordination, planning ahead/preparation, cheesing stuff etc.).  I'd love to get rid of 'must have' mods like lethal torrent, serration, barrel diffusion etc. Spice up underused mods possibly giving them synergy when used with other mods. 

Then having warframe abilities that have augments be looked at and determine whether or not that augment should be built in (like Energy Transfer for Equinox or Ice Wave Impedance for Frost).   Rivens could be looked at too, making them as custom augments for weapons rather than Crit Damage/Chance, Status, Multishot or Damage only mods.   Buff other stats rivens can roll (like status duration among others) and add some new interesting ones. Like grenade launchers having bouncy grenades that deal more damage the more times they bounce (think a dodgeball thrown by superman) or other goofy and interesting things.

 

Warframe has much going for it in terms of potential but I'd argue barely meets some of it. DE stays with the same formula on everything, and it ends up weighing it down. 

[TrixieLulamoonn]

Remove everything that was added during and after creation of saryn, mesa, limbo, equinox, all the crazy mods, rivens, zaws, kitguns, primes, focus, operators, free ressurects etc then we can talk. Otherwise no, the game is so unbalanced and boring bcs of it that even if would want to make a weapon just deal let's say, fire dmg and watch enemies slowly burn... they gonna die anyway from the first shot and also game requires us to kill everything fast as shown by de adding more sponges and annoying/immune enemies aswell game modes like survival, onslaughts or that thing on jupiter where demolysts are. Also the "mandatory" mods as ppl call them, the mods that just add mpure dmg and multishot are BiS,why would want inneficient super fire rate if can add more dmg, why would want reload speed + status chance if can add more damage, why bother with status chance other than slash/corro builds (not even worth using for viral bcs it doesn't stack, 1 proc does all the work), why bother with status duration if the enemies die and anyway we have to kill asap so new enemies can spawn so we can kill them asap, and so on and so on...

 

TL:DR : Nope

Edited June 16, 2019 by TrixieLulamoonn

[Tinklzs]

3 minutes ago, TrixieLulamoonn said:

Remove everything that was added during and after creation of saryn, mesa, limbo, equinox, all the crazy mods, rivens, zaws, kitguns, primes, focus, operators, free ressurects etc then we can talk. Otherwise no, the game is so unbalanced and boring bcs of it that even if would want to make a weapon just deal let's say, fire dmg and watch enemies slowly burn... they gonna die anyway from the first shot and also game requires us to kill everything fast as shown by de adding more sponges and annoying/immune enemies aswell game modes like survival, onslaughts or that thing on jupiter where demolysts are. Also the "mandatory" mods as ppl call them, the mods that just add mpure dmg and multishot are BiS,why would want inneficient super fire rate if can add more dmg, why would want reload speed + status chance if can add more damage, why bother with status chance other than slash/corro builds (not even worth using for viral bcs it doesn't stack, 1 proc does all the work), why bother with status duration if the enemies die and anyway we have to kill asap so new enemies can spawn so we can kill them asap, and so on and so on...

 

TL:DR : Nope

Enemies have those immune abilities because we're so powerful. If they tone us down, they can re-work enemy scaling, balance weapons/rivens better and start building better AI for a far better scaling system.

You're "Nope" is definitely true in your instance, you'd just make everyone upset then flip the table and walk away. 

[(PSN)Dishinshoryuken]

Or you could make another Warframe that uses the new mods without needing to use the old. This way, you open up different ways to play the game.

I know it is a HUGE thing to inform players they can have more than one of each frame that can be created to play different ways since all they will say is "just give us more slots or categories to use."

Imagine if players had more than one frame where one was made for being a godframe but not being able to dash around. Another was made to be able to use all the Augments and still be viable. And another that could use the movement mods to have fun dashing around.

 

[Tinklzs]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

You do know we're talking about de, yes? They first "tone" us down, completely nerfing us and our DMG, resistances etc. but then completely stop there. And it will be about a #*!%ing decade before they continue with enemy scaling etc. etc. 

So please, for the love of God, don't ask for stuff like that yet. Wait until it's a billion dollar company with thousands of developers. 

Otherwise it'll be a complete disaster.

I can see your fear, believe me that is an aspect I keep a whole eye on by itself with their track record.

However, just because they'd made some dumb mistakes, and completely neglect other aspects of Warframe even now that doesn't mean we shouldn't give feedback on how to better Warframe. 

[Legion-Shields]

Yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyez plz

[Makunogo]

or you could just shy away from your meta build and have some fun? 

i have not obtained all these new set mods but. part of me playing a game is me also enjoying it. 

also if i end up dead.. i have effective 7 lives and more or less unlimited revives so im not so much worried about losing my tankyness if i'm having fun.

if they added a new slot every time we got some new mods, we would become even more broken than we already are - and its really not that necessary but min maxing will always be a thing -

Edited June 16, 2019 by Makunogo

[TrixieLulamoonn]

6 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

Enemies have those immune abilities because we're so powerful. If they tone us down, they can re-work enemy scaling, balance weapons/rivens better and start building better AI for a far better scaling system.

You're "Nope" is definitely true in your instance, you'd just make everyone upset then flip the table and walk away. 

Yes, know that removing/nerfing is the unfun parts but belive all the power creep and giving content to noobs started when they released first nuke frames and... limbo (don't get it wrong, limbo is great and powerfull... but only trust using him by a friend, still have flashbacks from years ago when was locked in banish back when rolling did not remove it) aswell as focus as a form of power creep and some augment mods and just many mods.

No, don't think the damage can be reversed by simply making numbers smaller, there gonna still be 90% of weapons and mods and frames being worse than other bcs they keep releasing each time a 5% stronger gun, 5% stronger frame etc etc and then giving us enemies with unfun gimmicks or tons of damage/hp to counter that we can one-shot everything...by their own wish!, their content is simply throwing shiny stuff so ppl see "oh, upgrade!" not "oh, sidegrade!", would prefer a new gun that does things differently or have something unique than simply having higher numbers than the previous ones. Riven disposition won't fix it, don't even need rivens to do any content and they realy don't offer anything intresting other than more, bigger numbers, rivens became like a mandatory mod, bcs they can roll pure dmg and multishot so they are BiS even on low disposition.

[Tinklzs]

Just now, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Showing their latest decision maybe we should stop giving them feedback at all at this point lmao

Yes, yes, I know, looks like I hate de bla bla.. but damn.. they're constantly dropping so many balls it's actually insane.. 

That's why I'd say don't touch stuff like that yet, they are way to underpowered for something like that.

 

 

Criticizing someone isn't a bad thing, and being cynical because of past mistakes is understandable.  DE Steve did mention that people make mistakes and would hope that would afford them some forgiveness and wiggle room. However there are some things that are pretty obvious that shouldn't need forgiving because the mistakes shouldn't have been made to begin with (especially ones they've made before).  But I digress, what mistake did they make recently?

[SneakyErvin]

Besides no? Nej, ikke, niet, never, aldrig, inte, nope, na, nähä, nein, nie and kungekho.

[Tinklzs]

5 minutes ago, TrixieLulamoonn said:

Yes, know that removing/nerfing is the unfun parts but belive all the power creep and giving content to noobs started when they released first nuke frames and... limbo (don't get it wrong, limbo is great and powerfull... but only trust using him by a friend, still have flashbacks from years ago when was locked in banish back when rolling did not remove it) aswell as focus as a form of power creep and some augment mods and just many mods.

No, don't think the damage can be reversed by simply making numbers smaller, there gonna still be 90% of weapons and mods and frames being worse than other bcs they keep releasing each time a 5% stronger gun, 5% stronger frame etc etc and then giving us enemies with unfun gimmicks or tons of damage/hp to counter that we can one-shot everything...by their own wish!, their content is simply throwing shiny stuff so ppl see "oh, upgrade!" not "oh, sidegrade!", would prefer a new gun that does things differently or have something unique than simply having higher numbers than the previous ones. Riven disposition won't fix it, don't even need rivens to do any content and they realy don't offer anything intresting other than more, bigger numbers, rivens became like a mandatory mod, bcs they can roll pure dmg and multishot so they are BiS even on low disposition.

I too would like sidegrades (thinking of Team Fortress 2 and subclasses), and I understand DE's current line of 'progression'. However, it's the same illusion of progression that Diablo 3 or Borderlands follows. You get more "powerful" enemies that were a challenge aren't anymore, not because you learned something new or because of your own skill as an individual, but because you now have a weapon that can melt them without effort. So what happens is players now bypass all the 'GGEZ" content and want harder more 'challenging' content, but there isn't any, because it follows that formula. So they add enemies that are immune to your abilities (undermining whatever skill or knowledge you have with them) or make them health hogs, alienating those whom don't have that level of gear (another big no no). 

So yeah, I agree that many things need fixed - but it will take a good.. long.... hard look by DE to possibly fix it. Hopefully with someone who understands good progression *waves hand frantically at DE*.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Tinklzs

[Tinklzs]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

Nightwave in it's entirety.. >_>

But we're going off topic now 😄

lets keep it at "please don't tell de to rework something so big not even rockstar games could handle it (they make billions)" v.v I'm too scared of the mess they could make.. 

Fair enough.

However, you didn't answer my question.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

But I digress, what mistake did they make recently?

*edit* or maybe you did. Was nightwave your answer?

Edited June 16, 2019 by Tinklzs

[SordidDreams]

1 hour ago, Vesiga said:

power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep power creep 

Nope

Myopic. Power creep is necessary and good. Would anyone be excited for updates if every new gun and mod was guaranteed to be worse than what we already have?

[trst]

But why? There is literally no reason to give us more slots when there are currently so many issues with the game's balance.

Without entirely dismissing balance complaints how does anyone argue in favor of adding such a thing?

[Tinklzs]

2 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

Myopic. Power creep is necessary and good. Would anyone be excited for updates if every new gun and mod was guaranteed to be worse than what we already have?

That is a perspective, but a one that leads to a dead end where nothing is special because it becomes outclassed, instead of a intricate balance system.

A gun or mod doesn't need to be *better* to be viable or good or worthwhile to use. The term side-grade applies here. Something that isn't 'better' but an alternative, something that gives you more wiggle room. It could be as simple as a suppressor to go stealth in a mission, or.. in-fact the ability to go stealth in a mission instead of loud.     

Because what happens is, in the current system, if you don't "one up" and make a better weapon or mod each time you add it, no one will use it. Exergis vs Tigris Prime - TP wins. 

Giving side-grades (like Komorex) where it adds something new and a new playstyle while still being competitive, is the correct  way of design. Don't design something else in a shadow, have it stand boldly on its own and carry itself, instead of being eclipsed by something else.

[SordidDreams]

6 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

That is a perspective, but a one that leads to a dead end where nothing is special because it becomes outclassed, instead of a intricate balance system.

It's not just a perspective, it's DE's perspective. This might shed some light on their design philosophy. And yeah, you're right, things do become outclassed all the time as a result of it. Need I mention kitguns? The fulmin? They are only the most recent examples of power creep items that have rendered vast swaths of WF's arsenal completely irrelevant. My point is that's a good thing.

Where you're wrong is where it leads. It's the lack of power creep that leads to a dead end, because regardless of how intricate your balance system is, eventually players will figure it out and develop a meta of the best builds possible, and that's when the game gets boring and dies. Power creep is the cure for that, it gives the game life, it gives players a reason to experiement with new guns and mods, because there'a always potential that they might be better than what you had before. Such a game never gets stale, at least while it continues being updated.

17 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

A gun or mod doesn't need to be *better* to be viable or good or worthwhile to use. The term side-grade applies here. Something that isn't 'better' but an alternative, something that gives you more wiggle room. It could be as simple as a suppressor to go stealth in a mission, or.. in-fact the ability to go stealth in a mission instead of loud.     

Because what happens is, in the current system, if you don't "one up" and make a better weapon or mod each time you add it, no one will use it. Exergis vs Tigris Prime - TP wins. 

Giving side-grades (like Komorex) where it adds something new and a new playstyle while still being competitive, is the correct  way of design. Don't design something else in a shadow, have it stand boldly on its own and carry itself, instead of being eclipsed by something else.

The Komorex isn't competitive. Nobody's replacing their Rubico with it for Eidolon hunting. What the Komorex is is a rocket launcher classified as a sniper rifle (much like the Lenz is a rocket launcher classified as a bow, the Lanka is a bow classified as a sniper rifle, etc.). And yes, that does have some novelty value, but eventually most players will return to the simple guns with no gimmicks, and at that point they will choose their weapons based on their raw strength.

[Tinklzs]

1 minute ago, SordidDreams said:

It's not just a perspective, it's DE's perspective. This might shed some light on their design philosophy. And yeah, you're right, things do become outclassed all the time as a result of it. Need I mention kitguns? The fulmin? They are only the most recent examples of power creep items that have rendered vast swaths of WF's arsenal completely irrelevant. My point is that's a good thing.

Where you're wrong is where it leads. It's the lack of power creep that leads to a dead end, because regardless of how intricate your balance system is, eventually players will figure it out and develop a meta of the best builds possible, and that's when the game gets boring and dies. Power creep is the cure for that, it gives the game life, it gives players a reason to experiement with new guns and mods, because there'a always potential that they might be better than what you had before. Such a game never gets stale, at least while it continues being updated.

The Komorex isn't competitive. Nobody's replacing their Rubico with it for Eidolon hunting. What the Komorex is is a rocket launcher classified as a sniper rifle (much like the Lenz is a rocket launcher classified as a bow, the Lanka is a bow classified as a sniper rifle, etc.). And yes, that does have some novelty value, but eventually most players will return to the simple guns with no gimmicks, and at that point they will choose their weapons based on their raw strength.

With smarter AI vet players have something new to learn and DE have the developer ambiguity to be able ot create more than just 'moar health'.  Being able to have smarter dynamic AI that, when spawning, observes what 'class type' of warframes are in the squad and tries to counter them.
Adding new abilities with these AI and counters besides ' no fun nullifiers' or 'moar health/immunity to abilities' enemies, gives them more creative verticality than they will EVER have with the current system.
You reach Endgame in WoW or Diablo 3, what happens? You wait for the next expansion to make your hard earned gear obsolete and you restart the process of collecting gear again. Warframe doesn't have this, so you tone down the 'progression' in terms of objects (no longer will you simply defeat your enemy by being handed a badass weapon), you will now need to learn how to use this weapon.. like a badass. It will rely on YOU the player being better and learning, NOT relying solely on warframes, cheesing things or weapons like it currently does.

Solo players should be able to still do content comfortably solo. Group players should still be able to do content comfortably in a group, but may need to coordinate to take down certain enemies (like nox's for example). Giving that teamwork iniative and relying on player smarts and synergy/coordination, rather than "yeah bring saryn we're doing defense and my dinner is done in 8 minutes."

 

With the current system there is hardly a competitive weapon system, you kind of mentioned it with the komorex not competing with rubico.

However, I will be a bit hypocritical and say the komorex wasn't designed to be a competitor to rubico (that goes with the philosophy of DE right now, and most players, what will dethrown the current meta weapon per category and take it's place?) For sniper rifles it was vectis prime, now rubico prime. 

Komorex is a side-grade, it uses the sniper rifle platform, and instead of having super power for killing one enemy at a time, it's used more like you stated, a grenade launcher. Being unique, someone looking for this aspect will find it with the komorex and no other. This is good design, it doesn't need to directly complete with rubico to be useful, it just needs to be powerful enough and scale (which it does). 

[SordidDreams]

18 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

You reach Endgame in WoW or Diablo 3, what happens? You wait for the next expansion to make your hard earned gear obsolete and you restart the process of collecting gear again. Warframe doesn't have this, so you tone down the 'progression' in terms of objects (no longer will you simply defeat your enemy by being handed a badass weapon), you will now need to learn how to use this weapon.. like a badass. It will rely on YOU the player being better and learning, NOT relying solely on warframes, cheesing things or weapons like it currently does. 

What on earth are you talking about, WF has that more than the games you mentioned. Diablo 3 has no expansions anymore anyway (since the players saw fit to kill its revenue stream, the auction house, that was likely going to be used to fund their development), all you get is seasons. That's how Blizzard keeps the playerbase busy, by making them start over from scratch once they reach the end of progression. DE does the opposite, they keep extending the progression by adding more and more stuff to the top end of it.

18 minutes ago, Tinklzs said:

However, I will be a bit hypocritical and say the komorex wasn't designed to be a competitor to rubico (that goes with the philosophy of DE right now, and most players, what will dethrown the current meta weapon per category and take it's place?) For sniper rifles it was vectis prime, now rubico prime.  

Komorex is a side-grade, it uses the sniper rifle platform, and instead of having super power for killing one enemy at a time, it's used more like you stated, a grenade launcher. Being unique, someone looking for this aspect will find it with the komorex and no other. This is good design, it doesn't need to directly complete with rubico to be useful, it just needs to be powerful enough and scale (which it does). 

There's plenty of explosive weapons besides the Komorex already. Ogris, Tonkor, Penta, Lenz...  The only thing unique to the Komorex is that it's classed as a sniper, so if for some unfathomable reason you really want a rocket launcher with a scope, that's the gun for you. Other than that, it brings nothing new to the table.

Edited June 16, 2019 by SordidDreams