The real Itzal Issue

[Grahark]

I use Itzal the most for the simple fact that I can , with enough energy, Stop On A Dime. The teleport is a great convenience. The fact that I can just STOP is awesome. 

[selig_fay]

Drones distract enemy fire on themselves and you do not get missiles that knock you off the wings.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Itzal all around is the best option in open world, mainly because the damage or support that the other archwings provide is just as accessible if not better on the frames you're equipped with without risk of being knocked off of it by damage...

Skywing is just flawed for the most part. Archwing has been since the beginning. Maybe the overhaul will change that.

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

On 2019-06-25 at 2:45 AM, zhellon said:

Drones distract enemy fire on themselves and you do not get missiles that knock you off the wings.

That's not how you spell Amesha

[Kerberos-3]

Elytra is ok for Skywing, but thats mainly because the design for every ability except core vent makes them pretty useless for any other Archwing content.

[(XBOX)SupremeMorph]

Amesha would be great if the drones actually stopped you from getting out of the sky. Til then, itzal all the way

[Xzorn]

They made Archwing almost exclusively for travel and thus the best one at travel wins.

It's not a hard concept just bad design on DE's part by not properly incorporating Archwings as a layer of play.

They make Archwings an effective combat option and the nerf Itzal thing quickly turns into nerf Amesha cuz that thing is broke.

[selig_fay]

Il y a 12 heures, Hawk_of_the_Reborn a dit :

That's not how you spell Amesha

What does Amesha have to do with it? Amesa drones do not protect against missiles in OW.

Edited June 29, 2019 by zhellon

[Aldain]

The Archwing issue is twofold.

One: CONTROLS LIKE VAY HEK ON A DRUNKEN BENDER.

Two: Archwing abilities are pretty much useless compared to Warframe abilities outside of one or two examples.

One needs a mechanical change, while two needs a mass overhaul of abilities. Both of which I personally am hoping will be addressed come Empyrean.

[(PSN)smb-twisted]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

The Archwing issue is twofold.

One: CONTROLS LIKE VAY HEK ON A DRUNKEN BENDER.

Two: Archwing abilities are pretty much useless compared to Warframe abilities outside of one or two examples.

One needs a mechanical change, while two needs a mass overhaul of abilities. Both of which I personally am hoping will be addressed come Empyrean.

 

I don't really agree, i think the problem is 1 - a lack of meaningful content (enjoyable and necessar) and 2 - there is nowhere good to level. there's alot of MR tied up in archwing gear and having to play salacia 50 times for nothing other than mr fodder is a quick way to make people hate archwing

[Grahark]

5 hours ago, Aldain said:

The Archwing issue is twofold.

One: CONTROLS LIKE VAY HEK ON A DRUNKEN BENDER.

Two: Archwing abilities are pretty much useless compared to Warframe abilities outside of one or two examples.

One needs a mechanical change, while two needs a mass overhaul of abilities. Both of which I personally am hoping will be addressed come Empyrean.

That's the point of the post. Thank you !! 

 

Archwing mobility should feel the same as Frames mobility. If I wanna stop and change direction I should be able to. This silly "logic & immersion" to archwing is just plain dumb.

 

We can even go from a full tilt run to a backflip on our frames. On Archwing we have to pump the brakes just to stop at the extraction point. It all just feels stupid even from a physics perspective. ESPECIALLY IN SPACE.

 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

12 hours ago, zhellon said:

What does Amesha have to do with it? Amesa drones do not protect against missiles in OW.

Oh okay, so Watchful Swarm, Amesha's 1 doesn't exist

[Oreades]

You can stop with any of the Archwing in Skywing.

The problem that people are running into that still has never been addressed is >>> SPRINT TOGGLE <<<

Which a metric ton of people set up because constantly holding down shift to sprint in a game where you GOTTA GO FAST, is just tedious AF and the first thing you do when you pop into AW is to tap (toggle on sprint) Shift and hit the space bar. The thing is with Sprint Toggle on the S key nolonger functions as an air brake. 

I've brought the issue up a couple times in both the feedback and bug forums but thus far it's still an issue. Possibly because the people trying to replicate it aren't using sprint toggle and thus not experiencing the issue? Or maybe they just don't care ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

At the end of the day the issue is Sprint Toggle and hitting Shift a second time will toggle it off and allow you to stop with S but it's simply an unintuitive interaction,

[Olphalarepth]

On 2019-06-25 at 9:44 AM, Grahark said:

I use Itzal the most for the simple fact that I can , with enough energy, Stop On A Dime. The teleport is a great convenience. The fact that I can just STOP is awesome. 

100% agree. This is exactly why I use Itzal despite the fact every other archwing is, imho, more appealing. If Scott wants us to use other archwings as well he may start giving basic standard mobility to all of them for a change and use "powers" for cool effect/attacks/buffs

 

It's ridonkulous I have to use an AW i don't even like only to avoid slipping around the place like a wet bar of soap.

[selig_fay]

Il y a 10 heures, Hawk_of_the_Reborn a dit :

Oh okay, so Watchful Swarm, Amesha's 1 doesn't exist

You'd have checked before you said anything.

Révélation

 

Il y a 17 heures, Grahark a dit :

Archwing mobility should feel the same as Frames mobility. If I wanna stop and change direction I should be able to. This silly "logic & immersion" to archwing is just plain dumb. We can even go from a full tilt run to a backflip on our frames. On Archwing we have to pump the brakes just to stop at the extraction point. It all just feels stupid even from a physics perspective. ESPECIALLY IN SPACE.

I do not know. I like this system. Much better than the ground monkeys. And Yes, what physics are you talking about? Your warframes can jump in the air.

[SenorClipClop]

That's not 'The Itzal Issue' at all. I can stop on a dime by pressing the melee button and exiting AW mode. The Itzal Issue is that the Itzal AW in particular is used far more often than any other form of transportation in Free Roam maps, specifically by mashing Blink until you get to your next Bounty phase location. Its raw speediness makes any other form of transportation incredibly underused. The reasons for this issue are several:

1. Nothing compares to Itzal's Blink speed. It uniquely dominates in its ability to dash across large maps quickly. This could be solved by nerfing the Itzal in some way, or "pseudo-nerfing" it by buffing the speed of everything else.
2. AW travel in general is better than K-Drive because you don't have to contend with obstacles in the air like buildings, enemies and vertical terrain. This could be helped by introducing more dynamic dangers to AW travel (Blink drops the only sky-based threat we have already), and/or by providing clearer indication of the best way to get to a destination on the map's  K-Drive friendly roads (this might look like the line on Google Maps on the in-game minimap).
3. Bounty stages can generate very far away from each other. Making Bounties more locally contained fixes this easily.
4. Trivializing travel is incredibly beneficial with zero downsides. Typically players will sign onto Bounties to get them done as efficiently as possible, snag their rewards and move onto their next mission. Using slower travel methods means you aren't contributing to this effort as much as the Tenno who Blinked over. Using Itzal and mashing 1 gets you that much closer to the end-mission goodies.
5. In open-world style games, the primary draw is exploration. Games like Skyrim and Breath of the Wild are amazing for getting lost, following your curiosity and unfolding a world before you piece by piece. This is somewhat true for Warframe's open world spaces, but it doesn't gel with how the community plays Bounties, or with how the game's online play works. Solo it's fine and dandy -- explore at your own pace, grab some fish on your way to the next Bounty, it's cool. However, if we do the same in a squad, we generally get accused of leeching. When playing in groups, you can't do the open world thing at your own pace; you're expected to do it at the pace of someone else. This is why typically, Bounties are done together and other activities like Mining are done Solo (or occasionally with matchmade farming squads).

Fixing this last issue is a bit more nuanced, as it's more an issue with how players perceive the game than it is an element of the game itself. Exploration and side-questing could be made more lucrative, but that probably wouldn't make a big difference. Additions like the Thumpers are a good example (sidequests that find you), but I still see players ignore them. Perhaps if Bounties were restructured to make exploration and travel around the map an integrated part of the mission, instead of just legwork between mission stages. Here are a couple ideas:

• Bounties are also travel. Break into the Armored Vault (Phase 1), steal a module, then put that module into a drone that is at the same location and then Escort it (Phase 2) to an area to corrupt a comm station. Then Liberate and defend that area (Phase 3), preventing the Grineer from retaking the place, ultimately thwarting their plans to deploy a fresh battalion to the Plains (overarching connected plot). Simply by making the middle phase a transitory one between the start and finish, travel becomes part of the mission and so Blink-mashing isn't optimal.
• Bounties require exploration. Finding dead SolarisU operatives and rescuing the survivors, they tell you that a high-profile Commander is somewhere on the Vallis, but we don't know where that Commander is. The squad gets a clue to narrow their search (they were talking seeing the caverns and excavation projects, for example), and the Commander is marked for everyone once a Tenno gets within a certain distance, but that's it. Now the squad fans out, explores the area, looking for their next Bounty phase. To mitigate legwork for the Tenno who didn't find the Commander, they can opt into being teleported to the Bounty phase soon after it begins. With this model, moving fast is still useful, but now there's more to it than bee-lining to your next marker. Exploration becomes important, and Tenno can get creative with how they do it.

[THE_ZEEK]

please please everyone stop talking about this and hope this will die a silent death.. The more this subject is raised.. the more chance we have that the itzal is going to be nerfed and as we all know probably not how WE like it..

 

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

4 hours ago, SenorClipClop said:

-snip-

Just make all warframes and archwings be able to teleport/blink everywhere they want.

I mean, we had a similar problem back in the old days with sentinels and Carrier's vacuum.



Now let me fetch my popcorn

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

Leave the Amesha out of this.  It's the only Archwing worth using in actual Archwing content and a nerf would make said missions even more unbearable....

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2019-06-25 at 4:45 AM, zhellon said:

Drones distract enemy fire on themselves and you do not get missiles that knock you off the wings.

depending if you know how to shoot the weapons right then probably not, but its better to get the grenade launcher to drop shells on top of them for pretty useful for sniping in weird way.  Don't trust the zarr they will f##! up where the cluster you wanted to go, just go with this one

its hell lot useful then the rest of grenade launchers which this weapon is the only one can crit enemies like hell shake down crit and able do massive groups crits whatever the hell got caught in the radius blast for its worth it to have it high on crit and with lots dmg.  For this is benefit every archwings even the Itzal that have to deal with ground troops, it feels like how could I say this weapon is meant to be artillery attach to a jet fighter and just drop the f##! bomb fast enough.  Just make sure you have different version for it and able reload fast enough for this gun for you'll have a blast with this gun.