Need new sustainable content.

[844448]

12 hours ago, Aldain said:

Sustainable doesn't mean it has to last until the heat death of the universe, it just means it needs some form of staying power/fun factor that causes people to come back to it for reasons other than the carrot tied to the stick.

It's more to the player itself, what you find fun might be boring to others. I'm still doing mariana exterminate run on earth because it's fun to me, but is it fun to you?

[Aldain]

18 minutes ago, 844448 said:

It's more to the player itself, what you find fun might be boring to others. I'm still doing mariana exterminate run on earth because it's fun to me, but is it fun to you?

I'll see your Mariana and raise you a "I actually like Lunaro and am disappointed it never caught on".

I completely agree that fun is fairly subjective, though there are some things that a vast majority of the player-base will agree is not exactly enjoyable, for example I highly doubt there is even one fan of the Pursuit Archwing mission for example (I mean there could be...but the odds are low).

Its all about finding a way to appeal to as many people without having the issue of not truly appealing to anyone, which is a tough tightrope to walk in any form of entertainment.

[RX-3DR]

Just now, Aldain said:

I completely agree that fun is fairly subjective, though there are some things that a vast majority of the player-base will agree is not exactly enjoyable, for example I highly doubt there is even one fan of the Pursuit Archwing mission for example (I mean there could be...but the odds are low).

That's me right here, the mythical Archwing player. Pursuit's a simple game mode, I wish they made the courier faster so that there's an actual chase. Personally, Archwing is plenty fun, you just need to disconnect all the expectations of mashing 4, using easy play weapons and moving at speeds which you're actually not capable of dealing with. As a space shooter, it's easy to get into.

[Aldain]

10 minutes ago, RX-3DR said:

That's me right here, the mythical Archwing player. Pursuit's a simple game mode, I wish they made the courier faster so that there's an actual chase. Personally, Archwing is plenty fun, you just need to disconnect all the expectations of mashing 4, using easy play weapons and moving at speeds which you're actually not capable of dealing with. As a space shooter, it's easy to get into.

...What is it with me and finding the players who like rare chunks of content? I swear it happens to me so often around here.

As for Archwing I like it too, though the general lack of mission nodes is a huge bummer, I'm hyped for Empyrean and the adjustments they are making to it and hopefully more reasons to use Archwings (and maybe more methods to get mods for all things Arch).

...Though I cannot say I like Pursuit...I like RUSH more than Pursuit...hell I like Defection more than Pursuit.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Aldain

[844448]

13 minutes ago, Aldain said:

I completely agree that fun is fairly subjective, though there are some things that a vast majority of the player-base will agree is not exactly enjoyable, for example I highly doubt there is even one fan of the Pursuit Archwing mission for example (I mean there could be...but the odds are low).

I actually enjoy lunaro a lot, unfortunately I can't convince people to play or force them

Pursuit archwing? That's my second favourite after archwing rush. Actually, I love the archwing in whole

[(PSN)DARK_WIZARD999]

I really liked the hostile mergers survival mode. Protecting the defense points, all while killing hordes for resources and prizes. The only problem is they need to add everything else to that mode, like endo and kuva. Other stuff too, maybe cosmetics. Now take that and have it warp to different maps like in Onslaught minus the "drain" nonsense. That's what sustainable content means to me anyway. Not necessarily new stuff, just stuff I can keep playing and get resources. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

Remind me, what was hostile mergers?

Edited July 21, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi
Content Removal Issues

[Circle_of_Psi]

10 hours ago, RX-3DR said:

Apply this to anything that they release in the present and future and you have your explanation why the mythical "end-game" and "sustainable content" is really just padding out something to take a stupidly long amount of time. If the rewards aren't good enough, it falls into A. If the game mode isn't scaled to the broken meta, it falls into B. If the rewards aren't padded out to take 5 months to grind, it falls into C. If it's not different enough from already existing content, it falls into D.

I don't think we'll ever get "true" end-game, this is a topic that has been about for some time now and even then end-game is unique to their own player base. (Fashion Frame is end-game to some peps), but once again, it's up to the Devs to decide what is sustainable content and if it's not enough, then players move on and play another game.

Although, I do admit, some fokes, always conspire Meta to everything, if say X is not like this and that, then it's trash. (If every frame is not a Mesa or Nidus) (Both granting god mode or press  4 to win), that I do agree with that is the players fault, if you want to pancake the whole room and be done with it, then play single-player games with cheats on. 

Rewards are another can of worms: Nightwave this series is laughable at best for some people, some are just alright with it and some don't care, some bealive that Umbra Froma should be outside of Nightwave, etc.

As much as my posts show the otherwise, i'm not excaly a "Meta-Player", I level and farm what I desire or that perks my Interest. I'm not the type to max level everything to get high MR and then power-level into everything, but once or anyone has done a game-mode or has the rewards they need they just move on. But that don't mean "sustainable content" is still not needed, I and like meny other people want other things, to inspire them to do the next thing. (Massive new Content like Railjack, do the minor things, while farming for the resources for rail jack in the background or other way around)

Anyways, You bealive what ever you wish to do, you can not change what a person thinks of the game and you certainly can't disprove facts of "Points" that you think you have. Without content, no one will play, it is as simple as that, perhaps its not the "Content" as a whole, but how it's given to us: "Hype it all up, then oh woopie, it's only a demo, time to hype it next year" is what is cuaseing issues.

Sure. It being "sustainable" might be tricky and rather odd to try work around (for both ends of the party) I will agree with that but content at all is a must. No Content, No Play, we have seen countless topics about "Content drought" each time we have a delay on updates.

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

6 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Let's just bring back the old sustainable content. Remember raids? Or when endurance was endgame for like 2+ years without ever slipping? (not that i want to image the state of the later after all this power creep)

Wasn't raids removed a long time ago due to "No one was playing them" excuse? 

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I'll see your Mariana and raise you a "I actually like Lunaro and am disappointed it never caught on".

I admit, I am curious, how meny other players do enjoy the "Conclave" part of Warframe?, as I don't think that meny play it (I tired to, but never got a match). How do you see it being improved or drawing players?, do you think it will suffer the same fate as Raids?

[Cubewano]

10 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Wasn't raids removed a long time ago due to "No one was playing them" excuse? 

They were removed because they were incredibly bugged and DE had to throw their staff at the content left and right to make constant patch jobs so it kept working. It was taking up more resources than they could justify. (I suppose it is worth noting they did say they planned to bring them back, or an iteration of them, eventually when they got past current projects and had time to redesign them into a less buggy mess)

[Monlex]

On 2019-07-19 at 8:00 PM, XxElite2015xX said:

So I got back into the game recently, only because of nightwave, completed everything/caught up, now theres nothing to do and bored already, only thing that keeps me logging in is nightwave. 

We need a content drop soon, and I don't mean 1 gun, a syandana and armour with a few couloured drones and a guitar that is just a stiff statue.

Have not read the thread but after checking that profile of you i guess you are just trolling.

[Aldain]

10 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I admit, I am curious, how meny other players do enjoy the "Conclave" part of Warframe?, as I don't think that meny play it (I tired to, but never got a match). How do you see it being improved or drawing players?, do you think it will suffer the same fate as Raids?

I actually have only played Lunaro so I couldn't answer that one.

Not really fond of the idea of hyper mobile PvP shooters, hell my time in Destiny 1 made me hate it even more and that wasn't nearly as fast as some games get.

[FlusteredFerret]

On 2019-07-19 at 7:09 PM, XxElite2015xX said:

Well, I don't really read other posts or even look at them, so I was not aware, I just open a tab and speak my mind, and yes, I have already found a new hobby, Im just merely giving a suggestion.

Well its generally best to do a little research before posting....that way you don't end up looking a dummy. 

If you hadn't been on a break and kept up with events, (or even watched some of the recent dev streams), you'd know DE have quite a lot in the pipeline and that a major update is imminent.

If you've been playing a while, you'll know the development process is slow and that there are long gaps between updates. Is this going to change? We've not seen anything to suggest so. DE don't seem to do "sustainable content" - or what you're probably referring to as replayable content, such as a PvP mode.

If this is a major issue for you then Warframe probably isn't worth investing your time in.

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by FlusteredFerret

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

I actually have only played Lunaro so I couldn't answer that one.

Not really fond of the idea of hyper mobile PvP shooters, hell my time in Destiny 1 made me hate it even more and that wasn't nearly as fast as some games get.

Oh, alright

[Circle_of_Psi]

1 hour ago, FlusteredFerret said:

a major update is imminent.

What do you mean, we not had a Devstream last Tennocon?

[(PSN)Jack_7524]

Don’t we all

[_Eclips3_]

4 hours ago, Monlex said:

Have not read the thread but after checking that profile of you i guess you are just trolling.

I never asked for your opinion 🙂

[White_Matter]

Insert mandatory old age app meme. 

We've been waiting for sustainable content for years. It has yet to arrive.

6+ year vet here.

[844448]

On 2019-07-20 at 6:05 AM, Loza03 said:

 Content would be far more sustainable with better enemy and player ability design. Being OP makes combat less interesting and less engaging in the long run - there is a reason people can drop thousands of hours on Devil May Cry, or why Minecraft and Tetris are the two best selling games ever. All three of these games offer challenge and depth in various means and degrees. Devil May Cry through tight combat, Minecraft through giving you infinite possibilities to improve and Tetris through being literally unbeatable. Warframe, comparatively, offers a number of nice, easy win buttons, and subsequently has very little variety to combat. You press a couple buttons, and you can't die, nothing is able to shoot you or everything is dead.

Combat, and I don't think I need to specify this, is the main thing Warframe has going for it. If that can be 'solved'... what's the point? Like, think about it: If every new tileset, free roam area or boss has similar or identical gameplay, what's the point of playing on them apart from the rewards? If using new stuff is worse than the 'win' button, why get them? If these buttons provide a clear and concise 'best option', why bother improving your skills at build construction and at action combat, or both?

It sucks the enjoyment and variety out of the grind, so it becomes more noticeable and egregious. The content is meaningless when playing it is the same as before. The loot doesn't matter unless it become the new 'win'.

 

Overpowered stuff is fun, yes, but not 'thousands of hours' fun. Not for most people. If you do the same thing for that long, you'll burn out, and in Warframe, you are very demonstrably playing 'wrong' if you are. Games need variety to thrive.

You see, this is the root of the problem, the mentality of chasing loot or in other word : a loot-whore. You don't play because you purely like the gameplay, which I fall in this category, you have the thirst for the loot which from our nature as a human, greed will take over and you will never be satisfied, even when you have the whole universe as yours.

I for one, don't really mind being an OP tenno that wipes out battalions with no sweat because I see the power I have when wipe them out is my 'reward' from my effort on building my power but alas, people seem to like struggling even when they have worked for that insane power to be a one man army because they want this 'challenge'. Ok, I understand but when you're the strongest being in the universe, you won't meet someone at your level anytime soon, or, do you like when one day, DE take it all away from you and you struggle to stay alive just from a mere grunt? Might start playing the whole game as the operator where you are not that tough

[Fallen77]

Le 19/7/2019 à 20:15, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

I see your point, but the only reason why I warned you off in doing so, is cuz in a matter of a few mins, you'r gonna get overwhelmed with  "Haha" emotes and (Gif emotes) from the Fanbase/Trolls.

 

So it's pretty pointless to try dare speak your mind in the forums, but still, you're not the only person feels the same thing  

 

Scrolled quickly through the thread, 2 memes, only one aimed at OP, out of 4 pages.

I did not see much troll. It looks like you'd rather qualify anyone with a different opinion as you a "troll". Much easier this way uh ? You can just strawman anything out of your agenda as trolls so that nothing can challenge your opinion.

 

[Loza03]

4 hours ago, 844448 said:

You see, this is the root of the problem, the mentality of chasing loot or in other word : a loot-whore. You don't play because you purely like the gameplay, which I fall in this category, you have the thirst for the loot which from our nature as a human, greed will take over and you will never be satisfied, even when you have the whole universe as yours. 

I for one, don't really mind being an OP tenno that wipes out battalions with no sweat because I see the power I have when wipe them out is my 'reward' from my effort on building my power but alas, people seem to like struggling even when they have worked for that insane power to be a one man army because they want this 'challenge'. Ok, I understand but when you're the strongest being in the universe, you won't meet someone at your level anytime soon, or, do you like when one day, DE take it all away from you and you struggle to stay alive just from a mere grunt? Might start playing the whole game as the operator where you are not that tough 

 

4 hours ago, 844448 said:

If that can be 'solved'... what's the point? Like, think about it: If every new tileset, free roam area or boss has similar or identical gameplay, what's the point of playing on them apart from the rewards?

Notice I point out exactly that same mentality of 'just playing for the loot' because the gameplay is the same from area to area due to OP things that solve combat? And that, by logical reasoning, I believe the reverse is also true - if there weren't OP things in the game, new tilesets, new open worlds and whatnot would be more appreciated because they offer new gameplay.

Not to mention that my post spends nearly far more words talking exclusively about the gameplay.

 

You suggest that either you're powerful or you're not, that being a one-man-army and being challenged or struggling are mutually exclusive - that you're either the strongest guy in the room or every grunt is a mortal threat. DOOM, Halo, Metal Gear, Dynasty Warriors, Gilgamesh, Achilles and Beowulf, amongst a lot of others would disagree with you. The games have you as an unstoppable badass to the regular grunts but you often run into situations or enemies which aren't so easily disregarded, and the stories which are literally thousands of years old and still engaging to many have such protagonists who are fallible, imperfect, regardless of how ludicrously powerful they are. Believe it or not... that's considerably more engaging. There's reasons that literally the oldest story still told is a power fantasy where the ending is 'Protagonist loses.' There's a reason people love Infinity War. When ONE created Saitama, the things that almost always fuels conversation isn't how strong he is, it's who could beat him. Devil May Cry 3, regarded by many as among the greatest action games ever designed, goes to great lengths to establish the fact that Dante isn't entirely undefeatable despite how absurdly strong he is in combat by bringing Vergil into the equation. Do you get the picture?

The most important tenant in storytelling, true for as long as stories have been told, is that a protagonist who can't lose is a boring one. Even Saitama, who is unchallenged in combat, is still challenged daily by emotional struggles. People do not get engaged when there's no tension to a story. Oh, sure, it's a good way to pass the time, but it's not enough to sustain people for the hundreds or thousands of hours Warframe expects of you, because stuff that challenges us is inherently more engaging.

[Circle_of_Psi]

46 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:

-snip-

What are you talking about?

I posted that post ages ago to the OP, who wanted to ask the qeastion, not towards you, if you have a issue take it up to the mods, if you want to continue being uncivil then be my guest, the ironic thing is, I should not even be responding to you, cuz as you said it yourself, picking "straws" and thus gets a reaction, thus feeding the reactor.

 

So your point?

Edited July 22, 2019 by Circle_of_Psi

[844448]

17 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

 

Notice I point out exactly that same mentality of 'just playing for the loot' because the gameplay is the same from area to area due to OP things that solve combat? And that, by logical reasoning, I believe the reverse is also true - if there weren't OP things in the game, new tilesets, new open worlds and whatnot would be more appreciated because they offer new gameplay.

Not to mention that my post spends nearly far more words talking exclusively about the gameplay.

 

You suggest that either you're powerful or you're not, that being a one-man-army and being challenged or struggling are mutually exclusive - that you're either the strongest guy in the room or every grunt is a mortal threat. DOOM, Halo, Metal Gear, Dynasty Warriors, Gilgamesh, Achilles and Beowulf, amongst a lot of others would disagree with you. The games have you as an unstoppable badass to the regular grunts but you often run into situations or enemies which aren't so easily disregarded, and the stories which are literally thousands of years old and still engaging to many have such protagonists who are fallible, imperfect, regardless of how ludicrously powerful they are. Believe it or not... that's considerably more engaging. There's reasons that literally the oldest story still told is a power fantasy where the ending is 'Protagonist loses.' There's a reason people love Infinity War. When ONE created Saitama, the things that almost always fuels conversation isn't how strong he is, it's who could beat him. Devil May Cry 3, regarded by many as among the greatest action games ever designed, goes to great lengths to establish the fact that Dante isn't entirely undefeatable despite how absurdly strong he is in combat by bringing Vergil into the equation. Do you get the picture?

The most important tenant in storytelling, true for as long as stories have been told, is that a protagonist who can't lose is a boring one. Even Saitama, who is unchallenged in combat, is still challenged daily by emotional struggles. People do not get engaged when there's no tension to a story. Oh, sure, it's a good way to pass the time, but it's not enough to sustain people for the hundreds or thousands of hours Warframe expects of you, because stuff that challenges us is inherently more engaging.

If we want to talk why, it's because of the community itself as one reason. You see, we had tough enemies like demolyst and people were crying just because of a single nullifying pulse that remove any debuff on it, accusing it as immune HP sink or straight up permanently immune and we have these portion that refuse to hear someone else when they're wrong.

Another thing to consider is how people are afraid of something called nerf or any change in general. I put a thread about limiting the power of saryn and chroma to put them in line with other frames that can't deal 1m damage or have 10x damage boost, and the responses weren't so positive. Same thing happened with enemy buff or some kind of improvement so we're having the community that have multiple views

Then, if we really want to have enemies that can't be ignored, it would mean something at our level, like Vergil being on Dante's level

Lastly, the power of each player is vastly different, same with our gears. Saryn can wipe ESO easily but not with nezha which is my aim to make nezha able to solo ESO so what is trivial to one frame might not something trivial to other frame

More or less, we actually have these kind of enemies that can't be ignored, just forgotten with how people use saryn to clear the map and the mentality of rushing that's put to all players by the veterans so we, the veterans/experienced players are partly to blame here. This is why I always bring newbies in private sessions to teach them the basics and avoiding someone rushing like on the edge of having an explosive diarrhea so they can enjoy the maps

 

[Fallen77]

il y a 15 minutes, Circle_of_Psi a dit :

What are you talking about?

I posted that post ages ago to the OP, who wanted to ask the qeastion, not towards you, if you have a issue take it up to the mods, if you want to continue being uncivil then be my guest, the ironic thing is, I should not even be responding to you, cuz as you said it yourself, picking "straws" and thus gets a reaction, thus feeding the reactor.

 

So your point?

You are the one jumping on the opportunity to make a massiv generalisation. I am pointing it out. That is my point, you are free to answer or not. 

I have been civil, if what I said made you unconfortable or something, it's all about your sensibility.

Now, you wrote on a forum, everyone is entitled to answer to you. And you should expect answers when you're calling the other side of the argument "trolls".

And be honest, we both know you were not talking about actual meme spuying trolls, those are pretty rare, even in controversial threads. The only times it happens in bulk is when the thread is ungodly stupid. So it's a more than acceptable guess that those trolls of yours may be " people you disagree with".