I hate you for your Riven-System. Just that you know.

[kazenioware]

We are getting more Statues than Rivens.

Most of the times its for useless weapons anyway.

Obtaining Kuva is ridiculous hardcore grinding.  For a Siphon mission you can not roll a Riven with zero (0) rolls even once...Even Floods  with booster is a pain in the.

Rolling itself: just out of curiousity i rolled a Riven 100 x to get nothing really useful, that would justify the amount of effort you have to put into. Not even close.

How long does it last before it will be nerfed? Who knows.

Is it worth it? If you maxed everything out you are 99,9% of the time OP as f*.

[Sajochi]

Cry a damn river. You decided to heavily invest in an rng system. 

[Serafim_94]

Meh. Rivens as a system are easily avoided. Screw them.

[Test-995]

It's fun, only bad part is dispos and excessive kuva cost.

[Nez-Kal]

Just now, Test-995 said:

It's fun, only bad part is dispos and excessive kuva cost.

Well, that, and the Trade Chat and the Riven Mafia. X'D

(Want a Collector's Artax Riven from the Mafia? Well, you gotta get in contact with them, then Paypal them $600+ Dollars just for them to maybe trade it to you.)

[GinKenshin]

Just now, Tangent-Valley said:

(Want a Collector's Artax Riven from the Mafia? Well, you gotta get in contact with them, then Paypal them $600+ Dollars just for them to maybe trade it to you.)

or wait since it'll be back in rotation? 

[zNightWolfz]

you don't have to roll a riven 100 for it to be usable and useful if you choose to roll it 100 x to get stats you like that's totally up to you quit your whining about it ..

[YUNoJump]

Ah, another "Rivens suck because I can't get good rolls" post. We must almost be at quadruple digits now.

1. Rivens are an entirely optional system. Many weapons can complete any non-endless game content without a Riven, Rivens are designed specifically to boost lower-tier guns up to high-tier missions. Endlessly rolling for a Rubico or Kripath Riven is NOT the intended use.

2. God Rolls are not supposed to be the objective. If you spend all your Kuva on trying to get damage/CC/CD/Status on all of your Rivens then you're putting far too much effort into it. Many weapons do just fine with a normal Riven, maybe having a primary stat and then +elemental or +reload/clip size or something.

3. RIVENS ARE AN ENTIRELY OPTIONAL SYSTEM. If you are feeling burnt out on Rivens, you have absolutely no need to keep rolling them. Getting a Riven worth hundreds or thousands of Plat, without a massive time investment, isn't a realistic goal. If that was possible then the economy would break.

Don't ruin your Warframe experience with a system that you're only forcing yourself to play.

[George_PPS]

1 hour ago, kazenioware said:

We are getting more Statues than Rivens.

Most of the times its for useless weapons anyway.

Obtaining Kuva is ridiculous hardcore grinding.  For a Siphon mission you can not roll a Riven with zero (0) rolls even once...Even Floods  with booster is a pain in the.

Rolling itself: just out of curiousity i rolled a Riven 100 x to get nothing really useful, that would justify the amount of effort you have to put into. Not even close.

How long does it last before it will be nerfed? Who knows.

Is it worth it? If you maxed everything out you are 99,9% of the time OP as f*.

You are right. The Riven system is designed this way. So what’s the next problem? Don’t like it? Don’t use it. Contact me in game to give me all your good Rivens if you even have any good ones. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Rivens are DE's true Surprise Mechanics...

The time sink, the grind, the constant pulling of the rug from underneath your efforts to re-roll said rivens to get them where you need them, only to have that effort undercut each month or two..it's pretty aggravating...

And whoever put in the riven challenge "kill five Darygns pilots before they hit the ground with bow while sliding" on the console builds is a true sadist and has no idea what fun even means beyond pulling the wings off a fly....

[Avienas]

2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

1. Rivens are an entirely optional system. Many weapons can complete any non-endless game content without a Riven, Rivens are designed specifically to boost lower-tier guns up to high-tier missions. Endlessly rolling for a Rubico or Kripath Riven is NOT the intended use.

• Just like the its just cosmetics, its entirely optional, people will want to always chase for anything that can improve things for them, since even slapping a mustache on your warframe can greatly increase the fun value since you feel that bit more unique on your fashion. In terms of rivens, its kind of mandatory since everyone who is that elitists buggers that pull off 4 or more tridolon captures in a hour have to make use of it for good focus farming or hoarding arcanes to create massive over saturation. Plus if the element is present, you are going to get people who will dump ridiculous amounts to keep aiming for that perfect roll, just like how there was that one shenanigan involving a player BUYING TOO MANY THINGS involving the animals that d.e. had to straight up disable that function at how much platinum was being bought and dunked into it.

2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

2. God Rolls are not supposed to be the objective. If you spend all your Kuva on trying to get damage/CC/CD/Status on all of your Rivens then you're putting far too much effort into it. Many weapons do just fine with a normal Riven, maybe having a primary stat and then +elemental or +reload/clip size or something.

• If rivens were not tradable and disposition affected more then just the potential stats, then people would not be chasing riven mods so hard for those amazingly perfect rolls. If they removed stat lines like regular damage, multishot, crit damage, etc. then people would be forced to make rivens more to other kinds of stats, but would just turn into those stats being the g-roll ones. It would certainly help if it was restricted to 1 Damage line stat and the other 1-2 ines would be regulated to `utiity stats only` like fire rate, reload speed, zoom, etc.

2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

3. RIVENS ARE AN ENTIRELY OPTIONAL SYSTEM. If you are feeling burnt out on Rivens, you have absolutely no need to keep rolling them. Getting a Riven worth hundreds or thousands of Plat, without a massive time investment, isn't a realistic goal. If that was possible then the economy would break.

Don't ruin your Warframe experience with a system that you're only forcing yourself to play.

• Refer to the first answer again. It can be ignored, since most content will not really need it till you want to slaughter level 50+ enemies with a guandao stuck with a 150~ bonus range on a riven using a blood-rush & maiming strike setup. You could also have a boom stick able to hit so hard you can kill a boss many minutes quicker then what it would be without a riven mod on. Riven mods are basically warframe`s equivalency of Legendary equipment, which is a kind of bad thing when its mosty gotten from people who want to greed out as much platinum from you as possible before they give you the riven. Only downside is its stuck behind a very boring system which i hope `kuva disruption` gives us a actual way to farm and not be some non-scaling stuff like kuva survival is. Which if the rewards are not going to scale up per wave, then most of the reason to do longer runs gets completely lost with only those who have yet to burn out to keep wanting to farm those thins.

[Test-995]

3 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

1. Rivens are an entirely optional system. Many weapons can complete any non-endless game content without a Riven, Rivens are designed specifically to boost lower-tier guns up to high-tier missions. Endlessly rolling for a Rubico or Kripath Riven is NOT the intended use.

Honestly, if their intention is to improve trash guns to barely usable level with godly 999times rolled rivens, i think that's even worse.

[Xzorn]

I hate when someone says Rivens are optional. The game itself optional and everything in it. What is that even supposed to defending?

I'm also amazed some players still think Rivens were intended to make low-end weapons competitive. Do some math. It doesn't work.

As an example in order to get Magnus (1.53 Disp) to the performance of a non-Riven Tombfinger I'd need 3 specific rolls with 1 specific negative. Those are worse odd than most 0.5 Disp weapons which just require 3 specific positive rolls or 2 with a negative. There is simply far to large of a gap for % based stats to compensate.

Diablo 3 was ridiculed for being a cash grab with is 100% RNG loot system until they eventually stopped making enough money and allowed players to lock stats yet Warframe gets a free pass on Rivens being 100% RNG. Someone is paying for that plat is it not the same situation?  Oh wait, it's not. I made $950 with Diablo3 at least.

[YUNoJump]

40 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Just like the its just cosmetics, its entirely optional, people will want to always chase for anything that can improve things for them, since even slapping a mustache on your warframe can greatly increase the fun value since you feel that bit more unique on your fashion. In terms of rivens, its kind of mandatory since everyone who is that elitists buggers that pull off 4 or more tridolon captures in a hour have to make use of it for good focus farming or hoarding arcanes to create massive over saturation. Plus if the element is present, you are going to get people who will dump ridiculous amounts to keep aiming for that perfect roll, just like how there was that one shenanigan involving a player BUYING TOO MANY THINGS involving the animals that d.e. had to straight up disable that function at how much platinum was being bought and dunked into it.

You're absolutely correct that people will always chase the stuff they want, but that doesn't mean that it's OK to voluntarily ruin your game experience over it. The Riven system doesn't deceive or lie to players, it's entirely RNG and the fact that some Rivens sell for thousands of Plat is pretty clear evidence that the highest tier of Rivens are going to take ridiculous amounts of effort or luck. There is also a vast gap between "Riven that makes an average weapon sortie-viable using average rolls" and "Riven that makes a Riven-meta weapon into a god-killing handheld apocalypse using minmaxed, perfect rolls". People don't need the latter, and all of these threads with people complaining about wasting hundreds of hours on trying to get those godly weapons just show me that they need to re-evaluate what they're doing in the game. It's fine if people want to go down that road, but they need to understand that it's a massive time investment.

40 minutes ago, Avienas said:

If rivens were not tradable and disposition affected more then just the potential stats, then people would not be chasing riven mods so hard for those amazingly perfect rolls. If they removed stat lines like regular damage, multishot, crit damage, etc. then people would be forced to make rivens more to other kinds of stats, but would just turn into those stats being the g-roll ones. It would certainly help if it was restricted to 1 Damage line stat and the other 1-2 ines would be regulated to `utiity stats only` like fire rate, reload speed, zoom, etc.

I definitely agree with this, it would be good if Rivens were less min-maxy, and it probably wouldn't hurt the game in the long-term if they weren't tradeable either. The problem is that Rivens have to be worth a slot and 18 mod power. No matter how much of a boost you get, many people won't bother modding for a stat that isn't damage-based on 90% of weapons. If there was only 1 damage stat on Rivens then it would have to be high enough to be better than any normal mod that could use that slot. It's definitely a tricky balance.

40 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Refer to the first answer again. It can be ignored, since most content will not really need it till you want to slaughter level 50+ enemies with a guandao stuck with a 150~ bonus range on a riven using a blood-rush & maiming strike setup. You could also have a boom stick able to hit so hard you can kill a boss many minutes quicker then what it would be without a riven mod on. Riven mods are basically warframe`s equivalency of Legendary equipment, which is a kind of bad thing when its mosty gotten from people who want to greed out as much platinum from you as possible before they give you the riven. Only downside is its stuck behind a very boring system which i hope `kuva disruption` gives us a actual way to farm and not be some non-scaling stuff like kuva survival is. Which if the rewards are not going to scale up per wave, then most of the reason to do longer runs gets completely lost with only those who have yet to burn out to keep wanting to farm those thins.

The thing is, normally Legendary equipment is designed specifically for endgame. However in Warframe, even without a Riven many weapons and Warframe builds are capable of easily doing any non-endless content. Adding meta-Rivens to the mix just pushes player balance far above what the game is designed for. The big issue that arises from this affects enemy balance; DE can't make content that is challenging for meta-Riven users, without making it impossible for anyone not using these meta-weapons. This leads to veterans complaining about a "lack of endgame", because nothing can be made challenging to them without being impossible for the crowd of people who don't want to minmax Rivens, without just becoming a stat-based grindfest like Arbitrations or ESO.

Overall I can definitely agree that the Riven market is a terrible part of the system. Plenty of games have economies based around trading ultra-rare randomised loot, but Warframe has always been about variety and having a market based on specific metas hurts the game.

[YUNoJump]

4 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I hate when someone says Rivens are optional. The game itself optional and everything in it. What is that even supposed to defending?

What it means is that you don't need to use Rivens to be able to complete all of the progression the game offers. There are weapons strong enough to beat level ~100 content without requiring a Riven at all. If someone doesn't want to use the Riven system then that's not really holding them back from completing anything else.

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I'm also amazed some players still think Rivens were intended to make low-end weapons competitive. Do some math. It doesn't work.

As an example in order to get Magnus (1.53 Disp) to the performance of a non-Riven Tombfinger I'd need 3 specific rolls with 1 specific negative. Those are worse odd than most 0.5 Disp weapons which just require 3 specific positive rolls or 2 with a negative. There is simply far to large of a gap for % based stats to compensate.

They probably were intended to work like that, but the fact that you can game the disposition system to make high-disposition weapons way better than low-disposition "popular" weapons means that it creates new problems. Also just the fact that you can get Rivens for top-tier weapons at all really. If it weren't for the massive economy then I feel like DE would have made some changes already.

Comparing weapons to other weapons like that (in regards to performance) isn't useful, what is useful is seeing how far those weapons can go up the level scale. If your Magnus can do Sorties then the Riven is working, that's all. There are so many weapons that can do content way above level 100 that it's pointless to compare normal weapons to them. My Kraken will never reach the killing power of my Arca Plasmor, but it can do Sorties so it's OK. Not every weapon is going to be exactly as powerul as all others, that just plays into the "must have god roll" mentality that is helping to ruin Rivens.

11 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Diablo 3 was ridiculed for being a cash grab with is 100% RNG loot system until they eventually stopped making enough money and allowed players to lock stats yet Warframe gets a free pass on Rivens being 100% RNG. Someone is paying for that plat is it not the same situation?  Oh wait, it's not. I made $950 with Diablo3 at least.

Diablo 3 used real money, and Blizzard made a direct cut out of those trades. In Warframe, anyone can build a weapon that a Riven fits, and trades are only made in Platinum with no cut going to DE. Someone could feasibly buy a thousand-Plat Riven without ever giving a cent to DE, and just trading mods or Prime parts until they have enough Plat. The only thing that DE directly gets out of those trades is player engagement in their game, and the fact that at some point someone will spend traded Plat on Market items, removing that Plat from the economy and leading to more being purchased at some point. Player-run economies aren't unique to Diablo 3 and Warframe, what made the Auction House uniquely bad was the real money factor.

[Xzorn]

@YUNoJump  I can do level 100 with no mods on at all. Literally. I've done it as mockery.

How is comparing the performance of two semi-auto Pistols not useful? It wasn't really about the comparison in performance by the way. It was the probability contradicting the stated purpose of Rivens. It's considerably harder to make a Magnus compete with a non-Riven Tombfinger which should not be a thing.

Even after adding Rivens with their supposed purpose they did a total weapon rework which they could have done without Rivens. Lets add in Arch-Gun Rivens. Those are needed right? Not like they're new and all came out at the same time to easily balance. Rivens are a money making tool. Just like Diablo3 was. That plat got in the game because someone paid for it. The game exist today because Founders paid for it. Those same veterans DE has no interest in creating content for. Those streamers who've started doing other content and I don't blame them because there's never more than a week worth of something to talk about in Warframe.

I took this pic earlier cuz I thought it was funny. Keep in mind Path of Exile has half the players of Warframe and that's just one of their long term streamers.

Any "god roll" Riven I get I sell. It's the smart thing to do. Always go for the real money currency. Just look what they've been doing to some weapons, hitting them over and over with Disp nerfs and it doesn't matter because all it does is make me take the Riven off my Tombfinger. Doesn't make any other semi-auto pistol better.

[YUNoJump]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

-snip-

Well the obvious way you can do level 100 content without mods is to use a buff frame like Chroma or Banshee, but that's a completely different discussion about OP Warframe abilities.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you on the "Rivens don't work properly" front, I'm just saying that they mostly work when used for their intended purpose; making "bad" weapons into decent weapons. Naturally it's easier to make a top-tier gun without a Riven as good as or better than a low-tier gun with a Riven. The system isn't designed to give every gun a viable place in the meta, it's just about adding variety. If you really like a gun's playstyle (eg the Magnus's pseudo-revolver style) then you can use a Riven to make it usable, and because it's not so popular it makes it easier to do than just boosting your meta Tombfinger. The main flaw arises when specific low-tier weapons have unusually high dispositions because they're so unpopular, and then people create new Riven-metas around those weapons instead of just building weapons they enjoy. The Scoliac becomes better than actually good whips because its disposition is so high, for instance. In this scenario, the weapon is popular enough to normally warrant a disposition nerf, but because it's popular BECAUSE of its disposition, it couldn't be nerfed without creating an endless loop of justification for buffs and nerfs.

Honestly, I'd rather they remove or completely redo Rivens, but that's never going to happen because they're so popular in the economy currently. Doing balance passes despite them is a good thing, because it means that DE hasn't just completely abandoned balance by relying on a faulty system.

Warframe is a F2P game, you can't fault DE for adding a system that earns them money. Rivens can be bought without a direct requirement to pay real money for Plat, and you can't really pay real money to speed up the grinding process (outside of boosters which are cheap as chips), which would allow whales to dominate the player economy, so the system is probably about as consumer-friendly as it could possibly be. It's a grindfest sure, but that's coming back to the fact that it's designed to be that way to keep hardcore players on the line.

"Stream popularity" is by no means an accurate gauge of player count. Warframe isn't really an interesting game to stream, it's pure PvE without much depth or challenge to create really interesting streamers out of. A good alternative is  Steamcharts, which shows us that Warframe has a relatively steady player count.

[ShortCat]

7 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Rivens are an entirely optional system.

Unfortunately, they are not. Even if a player ignores Rivens, they already made impact on the game, because they do not exist in a vacuum. One example would be Tridolons and how sniper weapon get lower and lower dispo, while they are especially relevent for this mission type. Or that Orb fights are designed around excessive damage with immunities.

8 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

Rivens are designed specifically to boost lower-tier guns up to high-tier missions.

No they are not, because:

• Rivens were released without any disposition and Kraken would get the same Riven stats as a Gammacor. Disposition was added later.
• Rivens cannot boost lower tier weapons, becasue they still rely on base weapon stats. If there is nothing to boost, you cannot make it work. If we look back again, it should be clear that Rivens failed at this intended goal, because  weapon balance pass early 2018 did truly help to expand our Arsenal. At this point, Rivens existed for over a year and accomplished nothing. Melee weapons still await their balance pass and you can easely see how Rivens help Dual Skana or Fangs.
• No disposition changes for almost 2 years.
• Next to already mentioned general balance, Warframe already has a system to make lesser weapons useable - it is realized with weapon variants like Prime, Prisma etc. To make it clear we shall look at Tiberon, Akjagarra and their primed variants. Even after balance pass & Rivens those 2 could not really compete at the top, but with later introduction of primed versions, those weapons received a massive upgrade.
• One question: why should beginner gear be viable for the entire game in the first place? Warframe's design pushes for Arsenal expansion with its hundreds of weapons. What's the point to hold on crap tier gear, especially if better versions of the same weapon exist?

Rivens were designed for 2 purposes:

• To create low effort RNG carrot to retain players.
• But mainly to stabilize market and introduce "high value" & hard to get itmes, because prior DE crushed Warframe's economy with Specters of the Rail update and introduction of Relics.

8 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

2. God Rolls are not supposed to be the objective. If you spend all your Kuva on trying to get damage/CC/CD/Status on all of your Rivens then you're putting far too much effort into it. Many weapons do just fine with a normal Riven, maybe having a primary stat and then +elemental or +reload/clip size or something.

This is something I can agree with. Going for god rolls only will make your life miserable.

[Xzorn]

@YUNoJump

I can actually fault them for trying to make money when the method is predatory in nature and takes advantage of addictive behavior, aka gambling.

I often compare Path of Exile to Warframe because I started playing both in 2013. Path has come a much longer way and done a much better job of keeping it's veteran players coming back and interested with legitimately new challenge. Where Warframe has 0 interest. Path has developed their game in a way it can essentially last forever while Warframe is technically already over when it comes to scaling and difficulty with again no interest on improving that.

My point of comparing those stream numbers was the actual fact you mentioned. According to Steamcharts Warframe has more than double the avg players of Path yet a normal streamer stomps their official stream. Why?

Every 4 months Path gives it's steamers something to talk about with content that lasts 3-4 months before being added into the core game. They engage both new and veterans. Warframe takes 8 months and the content is done in a week. If it's fun to watch is up subjective. The difference in content play value is very much objective. PoE wins, every update. New builds, new mechanics and new items that aren't just throw away weapons because their damage system actually functions.

About Rivens though. I'm gunna send you a pic in a msg cuz I'm not allowed to post it here. This was taken after the introduction of Rivens.

You lemme know what you think and if you think DE is going to change anything about Rivens is the near future...

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

11 hours ago, Tangent-Valley said:

(Want a Collector's Artax Riven from the Mafia? Well, you gotta get in contact with them, then Paypal them $600+ Dollars just for them to maybe trade it to you.)

If this is actually happening and you have evidence, you should send that to support.  That is a EULA violation.

[Velothed]

11 hours ago, kazenioware said:

1. We are getting more Statues than Rivens.

2. Most of the times its for useless weapons anyway.

3. Obtaining Kuva is ridiculous hardcore grinding.  For a Siphon mission you can not roll a Riven with zero (0) rolls even once...Even Floods  with booster is a pain in the.

4. Rolling itself: just out of curiousity i rolled a Riven 100 x to get nothing really useful, that would justify the amount of effort you have to put into. Not even close.

5. How long does it last before it will be nerfed? Who knows.

Is it worth it? If you maxed everything out you are 99,9% of the time OP as f*.

1. My friend needs Endo, the last 5 sorties gave us rivens. Just basic observation bias, you never get what you are hoping for, I'm pretty sure Ayatans and Rivens have the same dropchance (even though I personally have gotten way more rivens, which I'm quite thankfull for XD)

2. Almost no weapon is useless (hello stug XD) in this game, there are only degrees of usefull and I'm most thankfull for rivens of weapons I haven't used in a while (except the maybe 10% of weapons that are just objectively bad).

3. I agree, mostly because of diversity, which is why I'm really looking forward to being able to get kuva by doing disruptions, a gamemode I really enjoy. I would really like it however if siphons would reward 900-1000 kuva without booster.

4. You rolled a riven 100 times and didn't get a godroll, that's what you are actually trying to say. To get nothing usefull in 100 rolls would be so extremely statistically improbable, that I'm convinced that you aren't using the word usefull corectly.

5. Always remember, it will. But I'm also annoyed by the inconsistency, I wish they'd adjust disposition at least monthly.

If you feel like it's not worth doing, I really fail to see why you are doing it at all.

[YUNoJump]

3 hours ago, ShortCat said:

No they are not, because:

• Rivens were released without any disposition and Kraken would get the same Riven stats as a Gammacor. Disposition was added later.
• Rivens cannot boost lower tier weapons, becasue they still rely on base weapon stats. If there is nothing to boost, you cannot make it work. If we look back again, it should be clear that Rivens failed at this intended goal, because  weapon balance pass early 2018 did truly help to expand our Arsenal. At this point, Rivens existed for over a year and accomplished nothing. Melee weapons still await their balance pass and you can easely see how Rivens help Dual Skana or Fangs.
• No disposition changes for almost 2 years.
• Next to already mentioned general balance, Warframe already has a system to make lesser weapons useable - it is realized with weapon variants like Prime, Prisma etc. To make it clear we shall look at Tiberon, Akjagarra and their primed variants. Even after balance pass & Rivens those 2 could not really compete at the top, but with later introduction of primed versions, those weapons received a massive upgrade.
• One question: why should beginner gear be viable for the entire game in the first place? Warframe's design pus

They were released without Disposition, but IIRC they still had a higher chance to unveil as lower-tier weapons. Disposition was more of a QoL feature that was added to give players a visible example of how Riven-viable their weapon is.

There are naturally weapons that are so trash that even Rivens can't save them, but the vast majority of weapons in the game can be made viable.

DE definitely does need to put more effort into Disposition balancing, I agree. DE isn't fantastic at managing long-term maintenance of a system, probably because they always seem to be speeding towards the next "big thing". It's the same for normal weapon balancing, every year or two DE suddenly goes on a balancing spree then gives up for the rest of the year.

Primes and such are certainly one avenue of looking at buffed low-tier weapons, but it's really not a deep enough system to count. The vast majority of weapons don't have upgraded versions, and even several of those upgrades don't make the gun that much more viable. On top of that, new weapons tend to release faster than new upgrades. That's also not considering the fact that many of these weapons are practically unobtainable at the moment, unless you want to dish out hundreds of Plat in trading.

It's not so much about making every single beginner item in the game viable as it is about having the option to make interesting weapons good. DE has moved heavily towards giving every new weapon its own unique mechanic, but if a unique new weapon has poor stats, then you can't use that unique mechanic for much of the game. Rivens can fix that.

4 hours ago, ShortCat said:

Rivens were designed for 2 purposes:

• To create low effort RNG carrot to retain players.
• But mainly to stabilize market and introduce "high value" & hard to get itmes, because prior DE crushed Warframe's economy with Specters of the Rail update and introduction of Relics.

It definitely is that too. I can't deny that the hardcore playerbase has absolutely hooked onto Riven trading, it seems ridiculous how deep it goes at this point. However, grinding for god-rolled meta-Rivens and just rolling for decent stats for a mid-tier gun you like are two very different practices, and players definitely shouldn't feel that they have to engage with the former if they don't want to deal with the grind. DE makes Riven money from the whales who deal in thousand-plat transactions, not the little guy.

 

[(XBOX)KILLA BIG MAC]

De dug themselves a hole adding in rivens to the the game. there were no rivens back during void towers..... and we still managed to go for several hours in a survival and defence. just a new plat sink since they destroyed the prime market.

[DatDarkOne]

11 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

However, grinding for god-rolled meta-Rivens and just rolling for decent stats for a mid-tier gun you like are two very different practices, and players definitely shouldn't feel that they have to engage with the former if they don't want to deal with the grind.

This is so very true.  I even give away rivens because they really don't have value to me like they do for others.  I only keep the ones for weapons that I either like or actually use.  And don't go out of my way for that. 

I will admit that I do like doing the challenges to unlock them. 

14 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

DE makes Riven money from the whales who deal in thousand-plat transactions, not the little guy.

Everytime I see those outrageously overpriced rivens, I think of the old saying, "A Fool and his money(plat) are soon parted.". 

[YUNoJump]

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

@YUNoJump

I can actually fault them for trying to make money when the method is predatory in nature and takes advantage of addictive behavior, aka gambling.

The thing is, the only way that players can spend Plat on the RNG aspect of Rivens is to buy boosters, which are pretty cheap and last a while. The big bucks come from people buying Plat to trade with, and that's not gambling, it's just normal trading.

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I often compare Path of Exile to Warframe because I started playing both in 2013. Path has come a much longer way and done a much better job of keeping it's veteran players coming back and interested with legitimately new challenge. Where Warframe has 0 interest. Path has developed their game in a way it can essentially last forever while Warframe is technically already over when it comes to scaling and difficulty with again no interest on improving that.

My point of comparing those stream numbers was the actual fact you mentioned. According to Steamcharts Warframe has more than double the avg players of Path yet a normal streamer stomps their official stream. Why?

Every 4 months Path gives it's steamers something to talk about with content that lasts 3-4 months before being added into the core game. They engage both new and veterans. Warframe takes 8 months and the content is done in a week. If it's fun to watch is up subjective. The difference in content play value is very much objective. PoE wins, every update. New builds, new mechanics and new items that aren't just throw away weapons because their damage system actually functions.

Path of Exile is WAY more complicated and deep than Warframe, as well as much more difficult in endgame. Veterans can stick around forever in PoE trying one of a hundred builds (just looking at that massive perk tree gives me nightmares), but Warframe has mandatory mods for every single build, and the best builds in the game are about 3 times as good as they need to be unless you're planning on living in Mot for a week. PoE's devs know exactly what they're doing with balance and adding new content that avoids power creep.

PoE gets more streamers because it has clear levels of skill in things like build-sense. Experienced PoE players/streamers can come up with all sorts of ingenious builds and show their audience how it works. Warframe has nothing of the sort, the most praiseworthy thing you could do is probably go several hours into an endless mission, which makes for terrible streaming. It's just the qualities of the game, both of these games get blown out of the water by any popular PvP game because amazing feats in those games are even more skillful and enjoyable to watch.

The other thing about PoE is that it's really more grindy than Warframe is, from what I can tell, and PoE players have a higher tolerance for grind because of it. Rivens are probably the grindiest part of Warframe (closely followed by ESO maybe), but all of PoE's progression is basically picking up little icons covered in stats, after they drop from various sources, and then randomly rerolling single stats until it's perfect. Granted you don't reroll the entire weapon, but the number of different things there are to reroll certainly counteracts that. That whole system of stat-grind really pushes PoE's playtime up.

4 hours ago, Xzorn said:

About Rivens though. I'm gunna send you a pic in a msg cuz I'm not allowed to post it here. This was taken after the introduction of Rivens.

You lemme know what you think and if you think DE is going to change anything about Rivens is the near future...

Yeah, DE definitely isn't going to remove tradeable Rivens anytime soon. All of the whales buying and selling thousands of plat worth of shiny purple rectangles has seen to that. I'd love to see a "what if" simulation of the trading community if DE just hit the big red button on Rivens, would probably be hilarious.

At this point, any major change in Rivens could probably also be subjected to the argument of "why did you wait this long?". The problematic system has existed for years now. The only semi-realistic thing I want out of them is a special Trading chat specifically for Rivens, so that the normal Trading chat could have anything other than copy-pasted lists of overpriced Rivens. Or they could just make the filtering useful.