Maybe is time to update the game?

[kuciol]

3 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Just ‘cause other games haven’t done it perfectly, doesn’t mean DE can’t do it. They just need to execute it perfectly for it to work. I’ve posted this in another thread but I’m gonna post it here as well.

Sustainable content could work in Warframe, it would just need to be executed well enough by DE. A big factor for it work is that it would need to have replay value so players aren’t able to be burnt out on it insanely fast as the rest of the game. 

Meaning that it has to have good enough rewards for players to actually have an incentive to do said content and would also have to be unique so players aren’t bored out of their minds of the same thing over and over.

The point its impossible. Your wishful thinking wont change reality. Even the best rewards will stop being rewarding and the best game mode will becomes stale and boring.

[CuChulainnWD]

1 hour ago, KnossosTNC said:

I agree it would be nice to simultaneously keep the vets around and attract new players too. I am not even disputing the validity of their concerns. What I take issue with is the rose-tinted glasses view of the past, without acknowledging their flaws, or seeing merits in the present, and pre-judging the future without even giving them a fair chance to prove itself. What I take issue with is this notion that vets know what is best for the game, without taking into account the changing realities, the ways of newer players, and the vision and interests of the developers. There is a need to find equilibrium between all four here.

Ultimately some point, it falls on the players, old and new alike, to reflect on their own expectations and responsibilities, and find some measure of perspective in things. At some point, everyone have to adapt to changing realities. This includes coming to the decision of whether it is time to leave and for how long. Life will go on, and at the end of the day, it's just a video game, and life's too short to kick up so much fuss over a video game. Nothing here matters as much as many people think they do.

So by all means let the vets express their opinions. Again, I am not disputing their validity. All I've been asking for throughout all my replies to you in this thread is simple; balance and perspective.

I don't disagree. I think we are on the same page. There are no rose tints in my specs for certain as I do not think there are in yours either. That said, the Vets that have been around stuck around for a reason. 7 years invested in a game with many thousands of hours means DE must have done something right to keep them around that long. That something however is going if not gone. DE Can bring that back, keeping the game viable and sustainable whilst also bringing to the fore the new ideas and innovations that makes Warframe great. It's just that for the past 2 years the focus has been too laser focused on half arsed short term projects that have not lead anywhere. If Steve's vision and scope of the game lives up to his hype, then maybe things will turn around for the better. Right now, nothing is looking rosy.

Edited August 23, 2019 by CuChulainnWD

[kuciol]

3 hours ago, dw3t said:

WoW that incredibly you pay even and not once but per month and whose farm is much longer than Warframe.

Last content drought in WoW was 8 months long, they release expensions every 2 years and have Multi bilion company behind them. Oj and they lost about 11 milion subscribers, try again.

[BeeWhyOhBee]

we can all but dream. (sadly, it will never happen) 

melee 3.0 is a dream, these 'kingpin system bs' and those raids.. nah, get out with that nonsense. we need the shawzin 

Railjack and that New War -- some 'new content' that will probably be done in 30 minutes or so, the download wait is longer than the actual content
about these 'new content' difficulty? its probably at lower levels at best, no challenge so those twitch streamers who never played the game will be able to play it and their community will play the game as well = influx of new players, who will buy more skins, more platinum, more money 

do not worry though, the game will live on and they dont care if you leave the game. There are more newer players who are havin' tooooooooo much fun with how the game is right now, they dont need your 'salty challenging content whines' to be answered because these are mumblings of the minority, the game is full-on a fashion-oriented/cosmetics game now, nothing more, nothing less. They are enjoying it and it will be fine, with or without you, old player. gtfo and play your souls games

 

[CuChulainnWD]

58 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

No, I'm not forgetting any of this. Old Void had its good points. I'm just not addressing them because they aren't part of my point, a point which you've tried to dodge in your reply -- abysmal grind for unreasonably rare drops does not equate to sustainable, enjoyable content.

Perhaps not for you, but it sure seems to me that it worked for many. I doubt anyone would disagree that improvements to any systems new or old could use improvement for the better. It was still something that worked and did provide entertainment and retention value for long term playability. That can not be denied either.

[xXDeadsinxX]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

The point its impossible. Your wishful thinking wont change reality. Even the best rewards will stop being rewarding and the best game mode will becomes stale and boring.

Debatable, it’s not impossible, just needs be perfected by DE. If the rewards are actually legit worth people’s time then players are more than likely going to invest their time into it. I mean, yes it is currently wishful thinking as of right now until DE does it, which I do hope they do. 

Again, if the game mode is unique every time you do it, it won’t be stale and/or boring as fast as the rest of the game. Now I know that’s easier to be said than done, but it’s entirely possible, just needs to be executed and tested well enough by DE.

[CuChulainnWD]

1 hour ago, TheBlackishBoy said:

You also forget that smaller companies like indie devs and devs for path of exile release content on a schedule every few months with less people. They release good stuff but it only last so long, you can play other games but these people also HAVE to make warframe videos to bring in income, not only that but if everyone just goes to play different games for a whole year and only pop in warframe for a week the game will decline. The youtubers keep this game alive because the game is so unorganized and confusing to most new people that they have to watch videos just to figure out where to go. So no everyone playing other games except once or twice a year is terrible for the game, and the devs can't use the small team as an excuse cuz other devs do more, with set dates, more frequently. And a lot of the things people ask for don't take forever to implement, half of it could literally be copy and pasted from threads there's so much feedback that people agree would be great. De is a good company but idk what they are doing and if railjack doesn't bring something new and sustainable the game will continue to push people away.

Let's be intellectually honest here. I have not played Path of Exile, but I watched a few reviews on it. The game mechanics, graphics and content is not comparable to Warframe by any stretch of the means. It is apples to oranges, and the staff required to run PoE to its peak efficiency may and verywell is not the same that is required for DE to run Warframe well. That said, DE does need to pull up their socks, get their priorities straight and maybe hire more staff.

[kuciol]

6 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Perhaps not for you, but it sure seems to me that it worked for many. I doubt anyone would disagree that improvements to any systems new or old could use improvement for the better. It was still something that worked and did provide entertainment and retention value for long term playability. That can not be denied either.

Take off your rose tinted glasses. Old void was unrewarding trash. The only reason you think you liked it is that you had 1/10th of hours played.  

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Take off your rose tinted glasses. Old void was unrewarding trash. The only reason you think you liked it is that you had 1/10th of hours played.  

Oh gee thanks for knowing exactly what is on my mind. Your telepathetic powers are wanting.

[kuciol]

3 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Debatable, it’s not impossible, just needs be perfected by DE. If the rewards are actually legit worth people’s time then players are more than likely going to invest their time into it. I mean, yes it is currently wishful thinking as of right now until DE does it, which I do hope they do. 

Again, if the game mode is unique every time you do it, it won’t be stale and/or boring as fast as the rest of the game. Now I know that’s easier to be said than done, but it’s entirely possible, just needs to be executed and tested well enough by DE.

Its not debateble at all, perfection just doesnt exist. Go check path of exile how randomized game modes turned out. Again you ask for impossible. Nobody ever will satisfy everyone.

[kuciol]

2 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Oh gee thanks for knowing exactly what is on my mind. Your telepathetic powers are wanting.

In fact I know because ive seen this pattern to many times to be wrong. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by kuciol

[LightNBright]

3 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Let's be intellectually honest here. I have not played Path of Exile, but I watched a few reviews on it. The game mechanics, graphics and content is not comparable to Warframe by any stretch of the means. It is apples to oranges, and the staff required to run PoE to its peak efficiency may and verywell is not the same that is required for DE to run Warframe well. That said, DE does need to pull up their socks, get their priorities straight and maybe hire more staff.

Its honestly not that different enemies seem to have actual intelligence in that game and the main difference that maked warframe unique these days is the mobility and that wasn't always here. I still remember when we had a stamina bar, before parkour 2.0 this game was extremely basic. I think the problem is that they upgraded the players to new heights but left the enemies where they were. But i get your point and to be fair de has a new engine so that could make things more difficult im sure but i know they can do it it just seems they don't really care to but ig we can only wait for the next update and see if railjack changes anything?

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, dw3t said:

Perfectly aware that they are developing The New War and Railjack as I also wrote in the main post and I'm happy and I'm waiting for their release. I also wrote that DE is an indie studio and so I can understand that it requires a lot of resources to do 1 single thing of great importance as Railjack and unfortunately it takes all the resources .. but I wrote even if it would not be more appropriate to produce smaller content than at Railjack in the future however with more consistency and with new gameplay or just events that give unique and different rewards that encourage them to do so. Maybe not today not tomorrow but after Duviri would it not be a step forward to bring the game to a consistency of more frequent updates?

I think we have pretty consistant frequent updates atm. It is just that peoples view on what is content or not is widely different. Some think frames and weapons, others have an imaginary benchmark in that if the content doesnt appeal to them it isnt content.

I prefer if they come up with more game changing system wide additions similar to operators, the open worlds or the coming railjack. Things that bring us completely new things to do that lets the game evolve. Sure not all of them will be a success *cough*archwing*cough* but that doesnt mean they shouldnt try it if it can make the game more unique and fun at the same time.

To me events on end would get old. I've already gone through that for far too long in Marvel Heroes. Everything new was pretty much just another event that came and went and came back again at a later date. It got old quick because you had twohundredandfiftyeleven different currencies and vendors and drops and so on. The events themselves were fairly fun, but they would have also been perfect permanent additions to the game. The few that got added as permanent pieces got their loot nerfed hard to make up for their availability, which kinda made them pointless and a chore. Their approach eventually led to the death of the game, well that and several other issues within the company.

[Loza03]

IMO, in order to make content last longer, they're going to have to take a long hard look at how they make the game tick in terms of combat. I'm not asking for Dark Souls - hell, I'm not even asking for Halo. But would the difficulty standard that Kirby works off be too much to ask? Because at least Kirby doesn't let you turn off most of the gameplay with no restriction. You do actually have to play to some degree. Because when you do actually play with what Warframe has to offer instead of just switching a huge chunk of the game off with Mesa or Saryn, it's a pretty damn fine game. But that's always a side option when you get to late game (which they are going to have to expand on eventually. A story cannot take place in the early game alone, if nothing else). because you have so many options which, even if they don't have glaring strengths, have no real weaknesses. Weapons, abilities and powers that behave like first-order-optimal strategy items but are intended for use at late-game.

It's bizarre and problematic that the assault rifle and bow that are among the first weapons you get require more input to use than the MR 10 Mid/Late border weapon the Ignis Wraith. Generally speaking, that should be the other way round - the easy option that only really leans into some of the mechanics should be reasonably powerful but fall off and the more skilful and engaging weapons should then take over, slowly leading the player via the breadcrumbs of power to get better at the game. Whereas with Warframe it almost feels like a "nice work, now go sit in the cookie clicker corner". Which, once you get to the point where you don't really need to engage with the mechanics, new content - AKA, new mechanics or new ways to engage with the mechanics - isn't really all that engaging long-term.

[CuChulainnWD]

3 minutes ago, kuciol said:

In fact I know because ive seen this pattern to many times to be wrong. 

Welp, you're wrong where I am concerned, so try again.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, DeathDweller said:

I'm 99% sure that Railjack will flop.What they've showed so far doesn't justify it's 2 years of development and the problem is that what they've showed probably is the whole thing, plus we already know that it will be butchered and come with half it's content(not  even counting the performace issues, bugs etc).

For TNW i have the same feeling but i'm not putting my finger on it since nothing is known about it and they said it won't be just a quest.

Duviri is their true last chance for me to turn the tables but i'm pretty sure they'll find a way to screw that too.

And yes they release things slowly.Take the standing timewalls out of Fortuna for example and the whole update can be finished in 2 days.All updates after POE are 90% visuals and 10% gameplay.

It may flop, it may not flop. I just dont take the pesimist nor the hyped up kid route, I'll wait and see.

And regarding the time gate, yeah you are right, but that is the case with several (most) games out there. The time gates are there for that reason and have been so for the last 20 years (atleast). It is a natural occurance with rep grinds etc. I think I've only played one game where I cant remember it being a thing and that is SWG. Instead there you had your time gates in the "sim" part of the game. Where you actually had to seek out living breathing player doctor or an entertainer to get you back into the adventuring. Unless you took the doctor route yourself, which ment time gates in creating your own meds and stims in order to survive while also cutting down on your offensive side of things.

[Midas]

4 hours ago, Strontium-Dog said:

I think that's the point he is trying to put across.

I'm pretty sure on one of Steve's streams he stated Digital Extremes literally makes more money teasing content than dropping it lol.

[xXDeadsinxX]

15 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Its not debateble at all, perfection just doesnt exist. Go check path of exile how randomized game modes turned out. Again you ask for impossible. Nobody ever will satisfy everyone.

Again, even if other developers haven’t perfected it yet, does not mean DE are incapable of doing so. Sustainable content can work in the game, it would just need to be extremely well thought out, polished, and executed by DE. Otherwise it would indeed not work if not done correctly, but I do believe that it’s possible of doing so.

[kuciol]

10 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Again, even if other developers haven’t perfected it yet, does not mean DE are incapable of doing so. Sustainable content can work in the game, it would just need to be extremely well thought out, polished, and executed by DE. Otherwise it would indeed not work if not done correctly, but I do believe that it’s possible of doing so.

Thats why im telling you that you are delusional, point proven.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Thats why im telling you that you are delusional, point proven.

Just because perfection is impossible doesn't mean that the effort to improve shouldn't be made.

[kuciol]

Just now, Loza03 said:

Just because perfection is impossible doesn't mean that the effort to improve shouldn't be made.

Sure but i dont see a reason why should they cater to your group when what they do actually works and brings more and more players. Your idea of improvement is purely selfish, you wont see anything as improvement if it doesnt cater to your needs, thats just how it is and dont lie to yourself. You let nostalgia blind you, you put on pedestal a mode that in its core is made unrewarding and felt as sustainable because it didnt give you what you needed. You will never be satisfied, deal with it.

[Ephemiel]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Drake_Remorea said:

Hmmm I think you're wrong there.

 

This community has legit gone nuts.

"Let me tell you, the vets who have expressed your grievances for years, why you don't actually know why you don't like the game"

REALLY!? And people AGREE!? People agree with someone whose points boil down to "you got no idea what you like and you're hating on the game"?

[kuciol]

1 minute ago, Ephemiel said:

This community has legit gone nuts.

"Let me tell you, the vets who have expressed your grievances for years, why you don't actually know why you don't like the game"

REALLY!? And people AGREE!? People agree with someone whose points boil down to "you got no idea what you like and you're hating on the game"?

Because he has a point or 2 (not all of them). Vets tend to complain that warframe is well warframe. They started to have "expectations" that are impossible to meet unless you change the game at core, they want different game but are to invested in this one to just leave so they complain about everything.

[Midas]

1 minute ago, kuciol said:

Because he has a point or 2 (not all of them). Vets tend to complain that warframe is well warframe. They started to have "expectations" that are impossible to meet unless you change the game at core, they want different game but are to invested in this one to just leave so they complain about everything.

The playstyle is nice, the game needs to have the star chart area.... AND THEN the NEW WAR area... Which will be for harder content. Holding out to New War really, if it has repeatable clan/group/static/friendgroup oriented content (Disruption, Eidolons, Bosses) i'd be down for that. Something like trials without requirements to start it. Mr 20 at the least to start it no key like trials to go in (which was the biggest turnoff imo) or an amp for EIdolons (another grind intensive turnoff, which I have grinded out btw). Reward the players who have grinded their warframes and weapons to oblivion to test them in group combat.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Midas

[kuciol]

Just now, Midas said:

The playstyle is nice, the game needs to have the star chart area.... AND THEN the NEW WAR area... Which will be for harder content.

Define "hard" because thats vague AF. It wont be hard for you, trust me. Its the same bs as in dark souls and path of exile, veterans burst through everything while vast majority struggles. Just go check PoE forums, you will see what im talking about. There are people that farm the hardest boss in game in second day of the league while most players cant even get to him in whole 3 months, hell people settle at shaper as their benchmark.